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Tim Wilson
01-07-2009, 04:35 PM
First of all I’d like to call a spade a spade. The cannabis plant has some remarkable medicinal qualities, as a raw floral product and through its naturally extracted essential oils (concentrated molecular compounds). In the first instance in many cases people self medicate or use recreationally in similar fashion to alcohol. However, there are many others who smoke or otherwise use cannabis to calm tremors caused by a variety of diagnoses. This is no ruse. I have seen this with my own eyes. People whose hands shake so badly that they cannot eat or dress have a draw on a joint or pipe, their tremors calm almost instantly and they can function. Others use this to be able to walk and talk.

I was in a bar years ago and the band was setting up to play. There was a fellow with them who obviously had a tremor disease (palsy, MS, CP, etc.). I asked him if he was a friend of the band. He said ‘no, I’m the bass player’. He invited me outside where I watched him smoke a joint (no I don’t smoke) and chatted. He transformed into a non-disabled person before my eyes. Believe me, I know what it’s like to be disabled; I’ve had Arthrogryposis from birth. He walked back inside and played the bass guitar like he was born to it. He did not seem stoned to me. He is not a loser, phony nor rope smoker. In similar fashion there are many others who get a wide range of medicinal relief from utilizing cannabis. Arthritics, quadriplegics, aids patients, chemotherapy patients to name a few.

This, however is nothing compared to the second higher level medicinal use of the concentrated compounds of the cannabis plant being used to treat cancer. There are many anecdotal stories of complete remission from terminal cancer, mostly in Canada where it is easier to acquire good quality extract. Of course this is not scientific evidence. There is serious research taking place in various places worldwide on the reducing effects of cannabinoids on cancer cells. I have listed some links and citations below concerning this.

By the way, it is a myth that THC is the only pharmacological agent in cannabis.

Treegal, I usually see eye to eye with you but there is a lot of stigmatizing in labeling hemp supporters as rope smokers. Although, I am uncomfortable working with potheads, I can say the same about daytime alcohol drinkers. I do agree with you about trying to grow a variety of plants but damn, cannabis/hemp will grow in just about anything and JD you are dead wrong about it robbing the soil of nutrients if grown naturally and sustainably. Haven’t you heard that it grows like a weed, year after year in the same patch if left to its own devices?

The cannabis plant could go a long way to relieving a lot of problems in North America and throughout the world. For example; It can be grown in combination with companion food entities, like edible mushrooms; the mushrooms will feed the hemp, the hemp will shade the mushrooms and the mushrooms are a tremendous source of nutrition (and immunity boost) to people. If the farmer has propagated through cuttings (will need seeds every 5 to 7 years) when the female flowers are ripe they are harvested, dried and sold/shipped for medicinal use. This could be government or NGO regulated with tremendous economic benefit. When the flowers are medicinally ripe the leaves turn yellow and fall to the ground, returning organic matter to the soil. The remaining plant can then be harvested by hand or machine and shipped for fuel or fiber and or the farmer can make on farm fuel. The choices for fuel production include methanol, butanol or ethanol and methane. Commercially, the production of methanol is a little costly and engines need to be re-fitted to burn it but butanol is made from cellulose naturally by microbes called Clostridium acetobutylicum. This occurs through a fermentive process which is a little complicated and slow but there is ongoing research to improve the speed, results and to find other microbes which will work more voraciously. Besides using some of the plant material in a methane digester along with algae and other plants to produce instantly utilized fuel (for power generation, heat, charging batteries, etc.), the farmer who plans carefully can use cellulose plant material to create portable highly useable ethanol.

To backtrack a little, butanol is pound for pound identical property-wise to gasoline. It burns the same, puts out as much power and no conversion is necessary. It is derived from cellulose as previously described. Ethanol is alcohol made from distilled carbohydrates (sugar, starches) just like the good stuff grampa usta make. It can be burned in regular combustion engines with very small alterations. It does not put out the same power as gasoline or butanol and does not get the same (energy application) mileage. It also absorbs water if given half a chance. Ethanol is a perfect fuel for on farm use in gasoline engines and is easily transported in containers. Methane is a gas (not liquid) and is easily produced with a digester which can be boosted exponentially with a simple algae generator (grower). Methane must be used on the spot unless you have very expensive compression and condenser equipment. It burns readily in most diesel engines and natural gas/propane operated devices. Because it must be used on the spot, power generation is its most practical application. It can run a diesel generator all day charging batteries. Efficient, non polluting batteries and electric vehicles and farm machinery would be logical developments for industry to undertake. By the way methane is produced by my new friends archaea.

Now back to our farmer who cannot afford the equipment to store methane in tanks, wants to use some of his crop residue to distill into ethanol. He could easily afford the cost of plans and equipment to build an efficient still but he needs carbohydrates (sugar) to distill for ethanol, not cellulose. Lucky thing he is a smart farmer and knows that certain gourmet edible mushrooms like to feed on cellulose and create, as waste, carbohydrates. So he uses his chipper/grinder (ethanol or electric operated) to shred some of the hemp (mixed with other plant material laying about) into his mushroom growing barn (or outside). Once the mushrooms are harvested, he can use the material to make ethanol. The material left over in the digester for the ethanol still and methane digester can be fed to livestock or composting worms. The worm composted material (either from the digester or passed through the livestock first) is spread back on the growing area to contribute to the organic matter which feeds the mushrooms which feed the plants (which feed the microbes) and microbes which feed the mushrooms and the plants; some of course, for the vegetable plot too. Because our farmer is smart (having gone to JGU [Just a Guy University] were he earned his DHP [density hath posterity]) he knows to leave the dead root system from when he harvested the hemp intact in the ground. Not only does it contribute organic matter to feed the microbes which feed the mushrooms and plants which feed the microbes but when the DHP farmer allowed the plant to die (or killed it) with the roots intact left in the soil, he caused the associated Glomus mossae (sp?) endomycorrhizal and other related fungi to sporulate so there are gazillions of spores set to infect the new plantlings come spring. To be sure of infection rates a couple of root systems are dug up chopped and used as inoculant on the plantling roots.

Now, is this not reasonably sustainable?

Salutations,
Tim Wilson, dHP

REFERENCES, Etc.
Here are some links; some redundancy

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17952650?ordinalpos=38&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/2/339

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/13/6748

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18339876?ordinalpos=27&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/68/6/1945

http://www.nature.com/nrc/journal/v3/n10/abs/nrc1188.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14570037

http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/57/8/1140

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a783088926~db=all~jumptype=rss

Unscientific;
http://cannabistv.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/medical-cannabis-miracles-in-europe-america

http://www.pnas.org/content/95/14/8375.abstract

http://www.phoenixtears.ca

JDUtah
01-07-2009, 05:44 PM
JD you are dead wrong about it robbing the soil of nutrients if grown naturally and sustainably. Haven’t you heard that it grows like a weed, year after year in the same patch if left to its own devices

Farming it for use as clothing, medicine, and fuel is hardly natural or sustainable.

JDUtah
01-07-2009, 05:49 PM
Now back to our farmer who cannot afford the equipment to store methane in tanks, wants to use some of his crop residue to distill into ethanol. He could easily afford the cost of plans and equipment to build an efficient still but he needs carbohydrates (sugar) to distill for ethanol, not cellulose. Lucky thing he is a smart farmer and knows that certain gourmet edible mushrooms like to feed on cellulose and create, as waste, carbohydrates. So he uses his chipper/grinder (ethanol or electric operated) to shred some of the hemp (mixed with other plant material laying about) into his mushroom growing barn (or outside). Once the mushrooms are harvested, he can use the material to make ethanol. The material left over in the digester for the ethanol still and methane digester can be fed to livestock or composting worms. The worm composted material (either from the digester or passed through the livestock first) is spread back on the growing area to contribute to the organic matter which feeds the mushrooms which feed the plants (which feed the microbes) and microbes which feed the mushrooms and the plants; some of course, for the vegetable plot too. Because our farmer is smart (having gone to JGU [Just a Guy University] were he earned his DHP [density hath posterity]) he knows to leave the dead root system from when he harvested the hemp intact in the ground. Not only does it contribute organic matter to feed the microbes which feed the mushrooms and plants which feed the microbes but when the DHP farmer allowed the plant to die (or killed it) with the roots intact left in the soil, he caused the associated Glomus mossae (sp?) endomycorrhizal and other related fungi to sporulate so there are gazillions of spores set to infect the new plantlings come spring. To be sure of infection rates a couple of root systems are dug up chopped and used as inoculant on the plantling roots.

That is a lot of blabber without actually identifying how much the farmer harvests compared to how much he replenishes. Quantify your numbers (via biomass, to be simple) and then I would consider taking this approach seriously.

You are not Mr. Nice are you? Although...

Tim Wilson
01-07-2009, 06:06 PM
David,

It is my uneducated opinion that you do not have enough digits in your IQ to comprehend most concise, rational discussion and you are more here in the role of something like an Internet Troll rather than to learn. I will, therefore, no longer be replying to anymore of your posts nor emails. If you had ever lived on a family farm you would have your own answer. The poop you make is equal to the poop you take. Quantum physics.

JDUtah
01-07-2009, 06:10 PM
Oops.

There is no reason why the members that frequent the Organic forum and the members who frequent the Pesticide forum cannot "co-exist". If you would like to get involved in a discussion here then, by all means, feel free. However, no need to take shots at one another, try to stir up trouble or attack one another personally. If you feel the need to do so then take advantage of the ignore feature at the site or DON'T respond at all.

Thanks

Per http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=239364

I was simply asking you for more information. Is that not the point of discussion?

phasthound
01-07-2009, 07:21 PM
David,

It is my uneducated opinion that you do not have enough digits in your IQ to comprehend most concise, rational discussion and you are more here in the role of something like an Internet Troll rather than to learn. I will, therefore, no longer be replying to anymore of your posts nor emails. If you had ever lived on a family farm you would have your own answer. The poop you make is equal to the poop you take. Quantum physics.

Gotta love it!

JDUtah
01-07-2009, 07:51 PM
BTW, compare my posts to his, then read here...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concise

Really, if Tim could produce evidence that the farmer has a no loss system I would be very interested, but until then... eh.

Mr. Nice
01-07-2009, 08:24 PM
Perhaps Tim has done his own research already.

Maybe it would be a good idea a this point to do your own.

JDUtah
01-07-2009, 08:36 PM
Perhaps Tim has done his own research already.

Maybe it would be a good idea at this point to do your own.

Perhaps so.

Have you ever read the booklet 'Skill with People'? I wont explain, but why should I research hemp? Oh, I shouldn't. It has no relevancy to what I am currently interested in.

If you guys think hemp is so good that I should research it then it is your responsibility to interest me to do so. So far the selling/marketing has not been very appealing. But if Tim can show me that a farmer gets a significant amount of product out of a no loss farming system I would LOVE to learn more.

The propagator has the responsibility of generating interest and so far... eh.

I even tipped him off on how he could capture my interest.

Btw... Law of conservation of energy = doubts

Barefoot James
01-07-2009, 08:40 PM
BTW, compare my posts to his, then read here...

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/concise

Really, if Tim could produce evidence that the farmer has a no loss system I would be very interested, but until then... eh.


That's all you got?

Your posts vs Tims experience?

Had to chime in sort of a goofy place to draw a line in the sand.

BTW Tim's experience/research:cool2: made me tens of thousands of $$$'s in 2008 - on a $500 investment!

treegal1
01-07-2009, 08:52 PM
Tim just for the record I am pro hemp and medical use, I support it fully, the recreational use is not my gripe ether. if someone wants to smoke just to get a (for lack of a better word) high then that's great, just don't say its for medical use and screw the legitimate medical folks out of it with some BS story that they have night mares or anxiety or some other normal condition that we all suffer from, and on that note, even if that's there thing just fess up to it.

I have first hand seen the good that medical pot has to offer. my fathers life with colon cancer was extended and his quality of life was greatly improved. I have also witnessed first hand a man with MS able to eat and feed himself with its use.

my only gripe is the slackers that are out there with bong in hand saying that we need to make it legal for med use and I got a hint of that from mr nice.

ALL plants and natural organism's should be able to be grown and used, with out any sort of undue recourse from any sort of laws.while i do not use pot ( and I have ) if my mind changed in the next day I should have access to it(legally).


now on to the sustainability aspects of hemp, absolutely!!! if that's what you need for what ever reason then it should and can be part of a proper agricultural scheme. I have seen ( not in the USA) hemp grown with beans under or on it and as part of a wind break that did wonders for the crops that they protected, is it the hog of the farm plant world, not IMO. but it still has its uses. as a matter of fact I have just gone out of my way to get a hemp jute blend twine to use on the farm. it cost 3X the cost of poly twine but has the added benefit of me not having to remove it for fear of plastic contamination.there are a load of hemp seeds in the wild bird food that I have planted and except for the legal issues I would have let them grow, happily. the soil part of the discussion is also a valid point, hemp is a very robust rooted plant that I feel has a valid use for "fixing" soil and as a timber replacement in some cases.

the laws I am not going to comment on as that's a more private matter but I can say that in general i am not happy with most laws.............

as far as hemp replacing so many things, if its mono culture then its, eh , not so great after all.

plus some of the reason I sort of jumped down mr nice's game in the other thread was there is no way that in the context of where do you get your materials does this apply to any US farmers, its still illegal. and my nasty reference to taxation of crack, well maybe I should have said air or water or something else to illustrates my point, sorry.

and Tim I am genuinely glad that we don't always agree on everything, it allows us to carry on a dialog and conversation that I value so much, even if we don't agree at the end of it:waving:

just a few more thing I want to get out,

6th grade my teacher said that mater cannot be created or destroyed.

next thing is that if we take from the land then we need to give back some how, or let the land share of the crop stay on the land.

JDUtah
01-07-2009, 08:54 PM
That's all you got?

Your posts vs Tims experience?

Had to chime in sort of a goofy place to draw a line in the sand.

BTW Tim's experience/research:cool2: made me tens of thousands of $$$'s in 2008 - on a $500 investment!

He is the one that brought up concise discussion...

Bottom line, I am showing Tim some advice that would help him more effectively spread his ideals...

Both of us are pushing something that the other person wont admit they care about. Not that different really...

The Microbulator/info generated leads, made sales, preformed the service, billed the customer, and collected payments all on its own? Wow! Now you have me interested!

Bah sorry. I should walk away. Seems I will take Michael's advice.

I would ignore him, but like Tree, I value the dialog. And no, not for trolling.

Barefoot James
01-07-2009, 08:59 PM
Your light is off? Silent but responsive.

treegal1
01-07-2009, 09:06 PM
generated leads, made sales, preformed the service, billed the customer, and collected payments all on its own.

no but if you dont have a saw you can not cut the wood that goes along with all that other stuff............

JDUtah
01-07-2009, 09:06 PM
Your light is off? Silent but responsive.

Ironic how you don't get what I am saying just like I don't get what Tim and Mr. Nice are saying...

Tim Wilson
01-07-2009, 09:20 PM
my only gripe is the slackers that are out there with bong in hand saying that we need to make it legal for med use

No argument here.

as far as hemp replacing so many things, if its mono culture then its, eh , not so great after all

I think that a certain critical mass of monoculture (hopefully companion planted) will be necessary to make a fuel production crop economically feasible. It just occurred to me that lawns are one of the biggest monocrops around. Of course if we get our act together with efficient solar, wind (and my trade secret magnelectrogravo device>big grin) power we won't need to consider fuel from crops, only fiber. Making your own power/fuel on farm is very cool although if an economist were to look at the hours put in on a farm they would say the inputs don't match the outputs.

6th grade my teacher said that mater cannot be created or destroyed.

next thing is that if we take from the land then we need to give back some how, or let the land share of the crop stay on the land.

Your 6th grade teacher was probably correct, however is the energy in matter increased by the influx of living entities in spore form which adhere to the matter from adjacent environments such as air and water, then grow and replicate? The trick is to use the minimum matter to create the greatest energy. Also, don't forget the matter and energy from the Sun.

So we still see eye to eye after all. I don't like bong clutching medicinal pot using wannabies either.

treegal1
01-07-2009, 09:45 PM
Making your own power/fuel on farm is very cool although if an economist were to look at the hours put in on a farm they would say the inputs don't match the outputs.

well that is what i am working on almost full time for a while now, does the end justify the means. my tight wade bean counting number cruncher seems to think I am on to something that may work. thanks for the fungal heads up in the start of your post I think i have over looked some of there key importance for my farms use. Paul Stamets has been for a long time now sort of a folk hero, I had the pleasure of meeting him in the early 90s at the university of Miami and had him autograph a book called fungi perfecti. I then went on to grow some great food mushrooms that have been a part of my diet for some time now. I am now using them as a companion planting with other green house crops as a free source of CO2, along with an inertube methane generator for more CO2 and some heat. along with a mammoth steam engine that pumps water in a closed system of algae production(photobioreactor)

treegal1
01-07-2009, 09:51 PM
Ironic how you don't get what I am saying just like I don't get what Tim and Mr. Nice are saying...try it in Greek or mandarin and then we may get it.

Mr. Nice
01-07-2009, 10:21 PM
I most chime in....There are only a few people I can count on my hand at times that frequent the organic forum with any thing constructive to talk about on a regular basis. Since at times good discussions are neither here nor there, thread topic's can get hijacked or for better words move in different direction upon different perspectives,
witch IMO is a good thing.

In that tread we where discussing where to buy products,sustainable activities pertaining them, and so on... I simply brought up HEMP not medicinal cannibis to say maybe there are other options? I am still entitled to my opinion's even know the next guy or girl might not agree?

If i recall correctly I did not say or imply anything about it's medicinal qualities? YES it was in the cut and paste, but i left it in there to tell of the other qualities this plant possessed
Till the band standing against my possible intention's for bringing the topic up.

Let me say this too, I think this plant is one of the most amazing plants on earth, and the hate people have for other's who might partake in it's therapeutic properties whether
justified or not SHOULD make no difference to anybody anywhere, I make light of it at times because, It's sooo benine a substance in my mind that all the hupla people make of it is a joke.

And as far a bong holding wannabe's???? I'm absolutely positive that's NOT directed towards me? because till you walk a mile in my shoes for a day you have no idea what i go though and what that plant does for my life.

I now realize before I make any statements about Industrial hemp that I pass a doctor's note to defend my opinion.

IF anybody needs med record's for my terminal possible life threatening disease and health issue's all you had to do was ask.

This god given plant lets me live the life that i do. with out it I would be less productive, and me and my family would suffer. bong holder you say?

hell ya!

JDUtah
01-07-2009, 10:22 PM
try it in Greek or mandarin and then we may get it.

Αν προσπαθήσετε να διδάξουν το κοινό, είναι δική σας ευθύνη να τους ενδιαφέρουν. Ο κ. Tim Νίκαιας δεν το κάνουμε αυτό. Κυρίως επειδή δεν έχουν ακόμη δείξει πώς αυτό θα βοηθήσει τις ανάγκες μου. Είναι ακριβώς όπως ορισμένοι πιστεύουν ό, τι λέω είναι ανοησία, γιατί δε με νοιάζει να δείξει με ποιο τρόπο σκέψης μου θα βοηθήσει.

Tim πρέπει να δείξει εμένα γιατί θα πρέπει περίθαλψη. Τότε, θα με ενδιέφερε.

Αν Tim βλέπει ότι αυτό που λέω, θα βοηθήσει στην πώληση περισσότερων microbulators και να συμμετάσχουν περισσότερα άτομα που ενδιαφέρονται για τα βιολογικά ιδανικά, Tim τότε θα πρέπει να ενδιαφερόμαστε για αυτό που έχω να πω.

Έχω πολλά να μου το μυαλό και τη δύναμη για να μην ανησυχείς για τη διδασκαλία της εν λόγω αρχής. Επίσης, δεν νομίζω ότι Tim σέβεται τη γνώμη μου, αρκεί να θέλουν ακόμη και να ακούσει.

Είναι ασαφές και αριστερά για να ανακαλύψουν εάν το επιθυμεί.

Η καλή δουλειά που εργάζονται στην εκμετάλλευση.

treegal1
01-07-2009, 10:42 PM
well that helped a little.........

so iif they can see it they may want to get into it. OK then.

first you can lead a horse to water but you cant make em drink!

second and this is my best quote, hope in one hand and sh*t in the other, see which hand fills up first!!

third I get the show and tell aspect of what you re talking about here, so start showing us something.....

yes maybe the TIM's and TREE's and all the rest of the folks out there may not get our message out there as well as we or the recipients of our effort would or should get but thats what this is all about......

JD slow your pace a little and try and say it more clearly, just my .02

Mr. Nice
01-07-2009, 10:58 PM
tree,

is this towards me?? if they see it, they will get into it? is this another dope rope thing?

anyway, it's all greek to must in the end anyway right?

thasmfngk yosfru

treegal1
01-07-2009, 11:10 PM
and @ mr nice, go re read the old thread and this new one, for some reason you all have mistaken me for something else. again my only gripe is cry baby's that smoke weed and hide it in an UN realistic lie about its use and purpose, and even if it is only as internal entertainment then if they fess up, eh it is what it is. so then great good on them, but I will stand behind my statement that 99% of the ones I have met say its for med use or fuel or fiber and then go get all peeped out and stoned with not a single fiber or drop of oil in sight and they for the most part a worthless drain on the world.

most of the genuine frank and fourth coming discussions on hemp or pot or call it what you want are here in an open forum with real hemp supporters that have legitimate reasons for doing so. I don't want to know why and for the most part don't care. but, and again sorry, just say it aint so, if it is what it is then fine lets talk about it. but I just my 3rd eye said at first, rope smoker. if I am wrong, eh, my bad, but I gave you an out at any time, just say it aint so.

also it was just a little unrealistic for some one in the US to use it for any reason with the current laws that was another thing I found real odd.......

no the see it thing was for JD

Barefoot James
01-07-2009, 11:13 PM
Αν προσπαθήσετε να διδάξουν το κοινό, είναι δική σας ευθύνη να τους ενδιαφέρουν. Ο κ. Tim Νίκαιας δεν το κάνουμε αυτό. Κυρίως επειδή δεν έχουν ακόμη δείξει πώς αυτό θα βοηθήσει τις ανάγκες μου. Είναι ακριβώς όπως ορισμένοι πιστεύουν ό, τι λέω είναι ανοησία, γιατί δε με νοιάζει να δείξει με ποιο τρόπο σκέψης μου θα βοηθήσει.

Tim πρέπει να δείξει εμένα γιατί θα πρέπει περίθαλψη. Τότε, θα με ενδιέφερε.

Αν Tim βλέπει ότι αυτό που λέω, θα βοηθήσει στην πώληση περισσότερων microbulators και να συμμετάσχουν περισσότερα άτομα που ενδιαφέρονται για τα βιολογικά ιδανικά, Tim τότε θα πρέπει να ενδιαφερόμαστε για αυτό που έχω να πω.

Έχω πολλά να μου το μυαλό και τη δύναμη για να μην ανησυχείς για τη διδασκαλία της εν λόγω αρχής. Επίσης, δεν νομίζω ότι Tim σέβεται τη γνώμη μου, αρκεί να θέλουν ακόμη και να ακούσει.

Είναι ασαφές και αριστερά για να ανακαλύψουν εάν το επιθυμεί.

Η καλή δουλειά που εργάζονται στην εκμετάλλευση.

Translated from the Greek -

If you try to teach the public, it is your responsibility to interest them. Mr Tim Nice does not do that. Mainly because they have not yet shown how this will help my needs. It is exactly as some believe what I say is nonsense, because I do not care to show how my thinking will help.

Tim needs to show me why they should care. Then I would be interested.

If Tim sees that what I say, will help sell more microbulators and get more people interested in organic ideals, Tim we should care about what I have to say.

I have a lot to my mind and the strength to not worry about the teaching of this principle. Also, I do not think Tim respects my opinion, enough to even want to hear.

It is unclear and left to discover if he wishes.

Good job working on the farm. :canadaflag:

treegal1
01-07-2009, 11:23 PM
close enough barefoot...........LOLOL

Mr. Nice
01-07-2009, 11:26 PM
tree, It's cool, I know why you were acting like that after a while, I guess:) I have to tell you, yesterday I was rambling too my better half that i was pissed at you for not understanding where is was coming from.

My med issue's aren't something I like to bring into open forum or even tell others that
I have these problems, I puffed herb like most kids growing up, but thank god it was there when i needed most. maybe I'll shoot you a pm later

Barefoot James
01-07-2009, 11:31 PM
Original from JD - Translated from the Greek -

If you try to teach the public, it is your responsibility to interest them. Mr Tim Nice does not do that. Mainly because they have not yet shown how this will help my needs. It is exactly as some believe what I say is nonsense, because I do not care to show how my thinking will help.

Tim needs to show me why they should care. Then I would be interested.

If Tim sees that what I say, will help sell more microbulators and get more people interested in organic ideals, Tim we should care about what I have to say.

I have a lot to my mind and the strength to not worry about the teaching of this principle. Also, I do not think Tim respects my opinion, enough to even want to hear.

It is unclear and left to discover if he wishes.

Good job working on the farm. :canadaflag:

如果您尝试教导市民,您有责任向他们感兴趣。尼斯添先生不这样做。这主要是因为他们还没有表明这将有助于我的需要。正是因为一些人认为我说的是无稽之谈,因为我不关心,显示了我的思维将有所帮助。

蒂姆需要告诉我为什么它们就应该照顾。然后,我将有兴趣。

如果蒂姆看到我说,将帮助销售更多microbulators和让更多的人感兴趣的有机理想,添我们应该关心我的意思。

我有很多我的思想和力量并不担心教学中的这一原则。另外,我不认为添尊重我的意见,足以甚至想听。

目前还不清楚,离开发现,如果他的愿望。

做好工作的农场。:canadaflag:

Mr. Nice
01-07-2009, 11:37 PM
again forgot:) the first reason I brought it up was because of ease of grow and yield for seed, I was thinking it would be a good residential fert or part of a mix, especially good for lawn guys that want a organic fert but don't know sh#T about how to go about it, just thought it would lessen the burdens on other crops and inputs, thats it but all the other talk about sustainable issue's made me think
in larger terms

treegal1
01-07-2009, 11:49 PM
mr nice as soon as you can PM you are welcome to do so.

also we as organic farmers are up against the wall with the current laws not withstanding hemp, we have bigger battles than to toy with some weed. joking:laugh:. but in all real world issues we have battles that are more important. protein and om based fert laws, to break away from the NPK set up. license laws and standards that will one day almost kill organics as a main stream way to do things if we dont act responsibly.

its not that we dont care about hemp or all the other issues, its just we got our work cut out for us already. case in point tea, say it does anything and your SOL with my state without some hard facts like what all 5000+ micro herd do you have in it every time??? that just sucks!!! so instead we go it as a class 1 bio solid and dont make a claim...... yes thin ice.......... wait till Bill chimes in on this, you will see what i mean

Barefoot James
01-07-2009, 11:54 PM
Dude, this is totally illegal. NO lawn person in their right mind would entertain this idea as having any credability (I did say right mind). Nice discussion and great info but unless it was legalized for ag this is really not an option. Show us more mycorrhizae pics and tell us about your scope.

Mr. Nice
01-08-2009, 01:10 AM
Tree,

I here what your saying, that the hemp talk might hurt the cause.

It's the same thing that happen to jack herer in the 80's with his hemp talk.
the people from NORML laughed at him and wanted nothing to do with it, they said the same things, were treading on thin ice as it is and the hemp angle will only hurt our movement......funny thing is years later he was praised for being ahead of his time by them and others,

the hemp plant is that...hemp,and it's uses

indica's and potent sativa's of medicinal quality are medicine

I think most herb smokers are just not afraid of it and are aware of it's many uses as a industrial plant....more OPEN minded per say
and people who are scared of it or just don't know about it just don't care or don't know it has other values or that there is a different's in plants types.

The big money companies that don't want it used on any front is a whole other story.....

funny thing is pot growers or smokers of out door weed would not want all that wild hemp pollinating and degrading the medicinal strains, it's not the other way around.

I think most pot heads just realize the value, cause how is legalizing low THC ditch weed hemp going to make the good herb legal? since we all know there is no chance for these industrial hemp strains to some how become more potent or provide places to grow medicinal strains at the same time? it doesn't work that way,

they grow hemp in alot of places medicinal cannabis is illegal you know, far as I know there are none of these issue's of making people want to use it more cause they see it or even make it possible for them to get high easier,lessening local law's forbidding it.

It's a god given plant, with many uses.....stupid people and stupider law are the problems,

LOL, don't get me started on brown water!!!

least I think we kind of understand each others views better.

BAREFOOT, hemp hemp hooray!:usflag:

Kiril
01-08-2009, 01:33 AM
Farming it for use as clothing, medicine, and fuel is hardly natural or sustainable.

I will agree with you on a large scale, but for what Tim has described, on-farm production for use on that farm, that is the very definition of sustainable. If a farmer can work off the grid (in this country), then they have achieved something that is nothing short of miraculous in todays world.

Kiril
01-08-2009, 01:37 AM
Really, if Tim could produce evidence that the farmer has a no loss system I would be very interested, but until then... eh.

Is this really necessary? There is no such thing as a no loss farming system. There will always be losses, even in natural systems. Lets be reasonable JD. The point here is to minimize the losses related to Ag.

JDUtah
01-08-2009, 03:29 AM
I will agree with you on a large scale, but for what Tim has described, on-farm production for use on that farm, that is the very definition of sustainable. If a farmer can work off the grid (in this country), then they have achieved something that is nothing short of miraculous in todays world.

I agree.

Review what I said that motivated Tim to try and correct me in the first place. Underline added.

I wonder if Jack ever thought about the demand that a "high harvest" puts on the soil. The whole reason synthetic/organic fertilizers are used is to restore nutrients that were harvested and taken out of the soil. Using an aggressive 'soil mining' plant like hemp appears to be will serve to deplete the soil more quickly. The fact that it would be used as fuel etc. brings one to question when the soil will become useless without our restoring nutrients?

The addition of nutrients is eventually necessary in any harvested field. Would the use of hemp really solve our problems or just divert them? I suspect we would find ourselves in the same boat as we are in now.

Wind, solar, and catalytic produced hydrogen (for fuel cells) on the other hand... now those are real sustainable forms of energy.

But that is just my .02

Tim tried to set me straight while using what I said out of context. I responded with an accurate statement. He got offended when I rightfully defended my original statement in its original context.

If Tim does not want me to defend my statement he should not pull it into "concise, rational discussion" and try to discuss it out of context. Doing so is not very rational, or as you said... reasonable.


Lol Barefoot,
Thanks for the translation.

Mr. Nice,
Hemp might be a good organic fert alternative when compared to cornmeal, but still not as sustainable as compost that is produced from a waste stream. I appreciate you mentioning how you connect hemp with lawn care. :waving:

Tim,
Sorry I am a punk and disagree sometimes. I do value our interaction. I wish you the best of luck with every path you are on. :drinkup:

Tree,
you said
I get the show and tell aspect of what you're talking about here, so start showing us something.....

What do you want me to show? I think you got my point although I might add... 'make the horse thirsty first'. But really, what are you asking for?

NattyLawn
01-08-2009, 10:43 AM
Oops.



Per http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=239364

I was simply asking you for more information. Is that not the point of discussion?

I have taken the advice in this post and put you on my ignore list.

Click on JD's profile (Log in first)
Click on "User Lists"
Click add to ignore list

Mr. Nice
01-08-2009, 01:56 PM
This is from the USDA so take it with a grain of salt. There used to exist a
superior strain called Kentucky hemp that was grown up until the late 40's.
Our gov seems to have lost the seeds stock to this superior producer:usflag:



http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/ages001E/ages001Ei.pdf

Tim Wilson
01-08-2009, 02:25 PM
Now for one of my famous clarification posts;

Thank you Kiril for getting it.

I was only voicing my opinion concerning how hemp/cannabis should be treated while giving an example of small farm (maybe large farm) sustainability within the realm of also making farmgate (or large volume?) sales. I was not stating any lofty ideals nor goals. I was not giving detailed instructions but merely an overview.

My points to others; concerned for Treegal, what I thought to be overblown a little but that was straightened out; and concerned for hemp using up the nutrients in surrounding soil because of being harvested; Because hemp is an annual and because of the massive root system which dies and returns to the soil, almost 40% of the plant material is returned to the soil. That is pretty impressive in terms of harvested crops. On top of this we have the leaf fall which further contributes organic matter as previously outlined.

The only question I was asked was, if I am Mr. Nice. No I am not. The only other comments I read were not questions but statements meant to inflame and stir up trouble which they did.

My bong clutching comment was not directed at Mr Nice.

As far as the difference between Indica, Sativa and low THC hemp strains; the hemp strains were specifically developed by man, while the Indica and Sativa strains are the natural strains evolved in accordance with their geographic proximity to the equator. They are a photrophically induced to fruiting and thus the two distinct varieties. One growing hemp in America would require a mostly Indica strain and this is the strain which grows wild. I know a few very old Hungarians whose family grew hemp on the farm and all agree that it was used for its fiber qualities as well as its medicinal/recreational ones. They can recall no resultant societal problems.

Salutations,
Tim

JDUtah
01-08-2009, 04:07 PM
Tim,

Sounds like it is time to get over the misunderstanding. I want to end both sides frustration here. Understanding each other might help. If you reread your first post you will see that you do not mention one thing about small farm sustainability until after you said "JD you are dead wrong about it robbing the soil of nutrients." Of course I am going to defend my statement at that point. And of course I am going to be upset about you calling me "dead wrong" when I wasn't.

You also said I responded with the motive to "inflame and stir up trouble". Has it occurred to you that your misrepresentation of my original statement had already stirred up trouble and inflamed me?

After that we both acted pridefully an immaturely. I hope we are both willing to let it go now.

The last half of the argument was with Mr. Nice who said it was my responsibility to study hemp. I simply shared that I was not interested and if he really wanted me to study it he, or you, should show me what I could reasonably gain from it. That is a powerful persuasion tactic and if you two believe in hemp as it appears you do, the experience with me + that persuasion principle would be a good thing to consider. Think AGD.

Now where are we? I now understand what hemp could provide, but I have more important battles (for me) to fight. If you two still want to fight the hemp battle good on you. And I will say you succeeded in making me, who wouldn't give hemp agriculture time of day before, switch to a more neutral stance.

Again I wish you luck in all your paths,
David

Tim Wilson
01-08-2009, 07:09 PM
Using an aggressive 'soil mining' plant like hemp appears to be will serve to deplete the soil more quickly.

Dead wrong. Like James Carville, I'm stickin to my guns.

Tim Wilson
01-08-2009, 07:15 PM
That is a lot of blabber without actually identifying how much the farmer harvests compared to how much he replenishes. Quantify your numbers (via biomass, to be simple) and then I would consider taking this approach seriously.

You are not Mr. Nice are you? Although...


I was simply asking you for more information. Is that not the point of discussion?

The horse's mouth?

JDUtah
01-08-2009, 07:49 PM
Lol, I give up. We were talking about different things. I had national energy issues in my mind, you didn't. Like I said, I now see where you are coming from. And again like I said... If you choose to fight the hemp battle... good luck.

Mr. Nice
01-08-2009, 07:59 PM
CAUTION!

Tread lightly and intelligently.

It's my new years revolution and the best advice I can give you.

treegal1
01-08-2009, 08:27 PM
my new years resolution is not to make any new years resolutions.

my new years revolution, thats funny.........


and I am not mean, your just a sissy

phasthound
01-08-2009, 08:31 PM
I have taken the advice in this post and put you on my ignore list.

Click on JD's profile (Log in first)
Click on "User Lists"
Click add to ignore list

Thanks for that info! :)
I remember when he said he was signing off the forum & would never post again.

Mr. Nice
01-08-2009, 09:00 PM
my new years resolution is not to make any new years resolutions.

my new years revolution, thats funny.........


and I am not mean, your just a sissy

OUCH! is this some kind of attempt at a POT shot at somebody?


It's more of a medapor, sort of like a comedian on satellite radio i like.
He has a DVD, it's called,


It's the whiskey talking

can you relate now?

treegal1
01-08-2009, 10:22 PM
I would also like to say that as far as intercroping, I think that a mixed forest is one of the key aspects to sustainable forests and agriculture, maybe row on row type could be implemented.

I dont ever get messed up to where I cant whoop some ----

Mr. Nice
01-08-2009, 11:53 PM
It was funny, what a difference a letter makes

NattyLawn
01-09-2009, 09:28 AM
OUCH! is this some kind of attempt at a POT shot at somebody?


It's more of a medapor, sort of like a comedian on satellite radio i like.
He has a DVD, it's called,


It's the whiskey talking

can you relate now?

You're an Artie fan too? Mr. Nice is so much cooler than GDRO;)

Mr. Nice
01-14-2009, 02:55 PM
Feral Hemp Patch with Dr. Dave West.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5IQ2PrSWG4

Hemp for Victory.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9UF-pFhJY

Hemp vs Cotton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCnHxBc-AA8

Willie Nelson; Hemp and the family farm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6tA3HxA9oQ

Legalizing Industrail Hemp- Reasons why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GZjwTnKSAg

The Market for Hemp products.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kZTLHEPrMc

The Global Benefits of Hemp.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxkDUBj3riY

Hemp Oil Nutritional Profile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jya6kcOEMUU

USA Hemp Cover up?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpQ0Dw82kmc

Hemp Processing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k0GGWGTFII