PDA

View Full Version : Letting diesel run wile you work?


South Florida Lawns
01-11-2009, 01:26 PM
There is this LCO with a 1 ton Dodge and they leave the truck running all the time when they mow across from my shop. They do a commercial business park that takes the maybe 10 min. max. I just don't get it though because isn't it bad to let the engine sit like that and idle? Semi's can do it because they can idle the truck at higher RPM's right? I was looking at a Chevy the other day and I think you can get that option now, something about a high idle switch, or is that something totally different?

wellbuilt
01-11-2009, 01:38 PM
On my ford LCF it is for the power take off for the dump or Air compressor it is built into my cruse control so you can raise the RPMs of the motor . The thing is if there is no load on the motor you don't want to leave it running . In NY you can get a ticket for it . John

Gravel Rat
01-11-2009, 01:44 PM
The newer emmissions engines you can't idle them for long periods why do you think the 6.0 Ford had so many problems. My 03 F-450 has idle control for the PTO so I bump the rpms up to 1200 to defrost the truck in the winter.

Most cities have a anti idling law you can't leave a vehical unattended idling for a X amount of minutes.

jefftb
01-11-2009, 01:56 PM
Some companies have "run-time" clauses in their contracts for service work.

For some of these they include travel time to the jobsite which is based off the run-time of the engine to get to the jobsite.

The trucks for these projects have engine run hours that the tech has to read at the start of travel to the job and when pulling away. Unethical companies can leave them running for these small projects to pad the bill.


Not saying that is what is happening here but I do know it exists.

South Florida Lawns
01-11-2009, 02:10 PM
It was a smaller owner operated business. I have talked to the guy briefly, he says it just a habit.

Chop Stuff Up
01-11-2009, 02:51 PM
I know the powerstroke we have (I don't personally own) bumps up the RPM's automatically in the cold when at idle.

Even Cut Lawn Care
01-11-2009, 03:09 PM
I know the powerstroke we have (I don't personally own) bumps up the RPM's automatically in the cold when at idle.

So do the 2003 and newer 5.9L cummins. Not sure about the 6.7L's I dont plan on owning one of those!!

JMLandscaping
01-11-2009, 05:29 PM
We leave all fire apparatus running while at a call somtimes that for hours straight, the truck runs and the generator runs (auto throttle like a welder)

High idle is used for when we park the trucks but need to run somthing off the motor (pump, lights etc.) when pumps are engaged you can adjust the trottle via the control panel.

Basically I dont think its hurting them

Atlantic Lawn
01-11-2009, 06:01 PM
Many BIG trucks leave their motors runnin' all the time, some guys with little trucks like to act like the guys with big trucks.

integrityman
01-11-2009, 06:12 PM
Ummmmm- why waste the fuel? Not like their running a generator or other apparatus? Many municipalities do have ordinances that prohibit leaving an unattended vehicle running. Most auto thefts occurr when the vehcile has keys in and or is left running.

KCfireman
01-11-2009, 06:14 PM
hmmmm. Never really thought about that. We let the fire trucks sit and idle for a long time.

Jusmowin
01-11-2009, 06:39 PM
Deisel engines are design too run all the time not turned on and off all the time! I always ran all the JD tractors I use to mow with 8 to 12 hours a day and never replaced a starter in 15 years on any of them.

tras
01-11-2009, 06:53 PM
In the winter my trucks are left idling for long periods of time(ie: running into the store, ect) but in summer i shut it off while at a job.

TXNSLighting
01-11-2009, 07:29 PM
Ummmmm- why waste the fuel? Not like their running a generator or other apparatus? Many municipalities do have ordinances that prohibit leaving an unattended vehicle running. Most auto thefts occurr when the vehcile has keys in and or is left running.

you dont have experiences with diesels huh? Theyre not going to use much of any fuel idling.

whoopassonthebluegrass
01-11-2009, 07:32 PM
I've contemplated this myself. Diesels are so fuel efficient that it MIGHT be worth the extra $0.08 per lawn to have ice cold air blowing in my cab when it's 100 degrees outside.

Just need a keyless entry so it can be locked while idling.

TMlawncare
01-11-2009, 07:33 PM
One thing you need to keep in mind about most new diesels are turbo charged. On any turbo charged engine the worst thing you can do is to shut time off without letting them idle for a couple minutes. The reason is to let the turbocharger cool down to avoid any coking.

TXNSLighting
01-11-2009, 07:37 PM
One thing you need to keep in mind about most new diesels are turbo charged. On any turbo charged engine the worst thing you can do is to shut time off without letting them idle for a couple minutes. The reason is to let the turbocharger cool down to avoid any coking.

you realize theyve all had Turbos since at least 94...Cummins even longer.

South Florida Lawns
01-11-2009, 08:06 PM
Many BIG trucks leave their motors runnin' all the time, some guys with little trucks like to act like the guys with big trucks.

Thats exactly what I think it was all about there.

Petr51488
01-11-2009, 08:21 PM
One thing you need to keep in mind about most new diesels are turbo charged. On any turbo charged engine the worst thing you can do is to shut time off without letting them idle for a couple minutes. The reason is to let the turbocharger cool down to avoid any coking.

You must be getting your info from an incorrect source. The only time you need to let the turbo cool is when your pulling heavy weight up steep hills for a long period of time. Other then that.. when your doing city driving.. theres no need to let it cool off before you shut it off. If that were the case i would spend half my life in the car waiting for the turbo to cool off.

I have the high idle option on my truck and its only to help it warm up when its below 33 degrees outside. The engine kicks up maybe 300rpm until the engine reaches a certain temp. I don't think pickups have the same options as the f650's do where if their using an onboard compressor that the engine revs up.

D&B Sharp Finish
01-15-2009, 08:59 PM
Deisel engines are design too run all the time not turned on and off all the time! I always ran all the JD tractors I use to mow with 8 to 12 hours a day and never replaced a starter in 15 years on any of them.


This is not true for the newer diesels in trucks. Long periods of idling will cause carbon to build up in the egr systems and eventually clog them which will make your truck run like poop. These trucks need to be run hard and gotten hot to burn that carbon out and keep the egr system clean. Long periods of idling will also cause carbon to build up on the vanes of a VGT turbo (ford 6.0) and cause the vanes to stick which which also makes your truck run like poop and can make your egr clog easier...
I cannot emphasize enough how bad it is to let a ford 6.0 sit and idle!!! I work on way too many of these for that reason alone!!!

You must be getting your info from an incorrect source. The only time you need to let the turbo cool is when your pulling heavy weight up steep hills for a long period of time. Other then that.. when your doing city driving.. theres no need to let it cool off before you shut it off. If that were the case i would spend half my life in the car waiting for the turbo to cool off.


WRONG! Even a bone stock truck not pulling a trailer needs to let the turbo cool down before shutdown! An EGT gauge should be used to monitor exaust temps and any diesel with a turbo should not be shut down if the EGT's are above 350 degrees! 300 degrees if you are particular about your truck...

LindblomRJ
01-15-2009, 09:11 PM
Turbos it depends on the applications. The John Deere 4430 tractor had a warning sticker about letting the engine idle before shutting down to cool the turbo. Subsequent turbos that I have operated do not have such warning. I will say in the winter time and cold its easier to leave the diesel idling.

Cold weather would be about the only time I would let a diesel idle anymore.

D&B Sharp Finish
01-15-2009, 09:16 PM
Turbos it depends on the applications. The John Deere 4430 tractor had a warning sticker about letting the engine idle before shutting down to cool the turbo. Subsequent turbos that I have operated do not have such warning. I will say in the winter time and cold its easier to leave the diesel idling.


Most vechiles dont have any kind of warning sticker... doesn't mean it doesn't need it...

LindblomRJ
01-15-2009, 09:25 PM
Most vechiles dont have any kind of warning sticker... doesn't mean it doesn't need it...

Most owners manuals will tell you to wait anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes cool down if diesel was under a heavy load.

And this from a guy whose avatar is a ZTR doing a wheelie? Kinda gives the perception that you are rough with equipment.

nosparkplugs
01-15-2009, 09:39 PM
When a diesel is idling, a fast idle throttle option does help, but it's not designed for reducing soot build up, even with fast idle their is still not enough heat generated to completely burn the full diesel fuel injection event or charge in the combustion chamber the unburnt fuel is carbon, and because the diesel cycle compresses only air on the upper stroke, and fuel is injected last. As the charge is spontaneously ignited the extra unburnt fuel coats the cylinder walls, and piston as the rotating assembly is forced down. When the diesel cycle starts over the piston rings then scrap the unburnt carbon off the cylinder walls leaving "bore polishing". That carbon is called soot, and is suspended in the oil the (TBN) total base number is a diesels oil ability to neutralize acids, and suspend that unburnt soot.

I suggest taking a UOA during the oil change interval to determine if your idling to much.

A Dual or single By-Pass oil filtration system will allow for limitless idling. Some diesel engines tolerate prolonged idling better than others.

lyube
01-15-2009, 10:16 PM
I am of the school of thought that it's better to leave a diesel engine running for short periods than to start it and stop it.

GravelyNut
01-15-2009, 10:20 PM
Most owners manuals will tell you to wait anywhere from 2 to 5 minutes cool down if diesel was under a heavy load.

And this from a guy whose avatar is a ZTR doing a wheelie? Kinda gives the perception that you are rough with equipment.
It makes no difference whether it is a heavy load or a light load, they need a period of cooling/spindown. Detroits with blowers only and naturally aspirated engines are the only ones that can survive repeated hot shutdowns. It isn't just for the cooling but also to allow the turbo to spin down with enough oil on the bearings to prevent metal to metal contact. Some makes even have electric driven oil pumps to supply cooling oil after the engines have been shutdown for 15 minutes or so.

Petr51488
01-15-2009, 10:31 PM
WRONG! Even a bone stock truck not pulling a trailer needs to let the turbo cool down before shutdown! An EGT gauge should be used to monitor exaust temps and any diesel with a turbo should not be shut down if the EGT's are above 350 degrees! 300 degrees if you are particular about your truck...

Are we talking about the same trucks here? I'm talking about the new diesels. You show me one person who lets their truck cool down when just running around doing errends. I'm a fan of cooling down, but only when i'm towing long distances. I let it idle for about 5 minutes, then shut it off. I do this for both gas and diesels.

LindblomRJ
01-15-2009, 10:43 PM
The bigger question is.... What does the operator or owners manual say about it?

lyube
01-15-2009, 10:49 PM
Turbos it depends on the applications. The John Deere 4430 tractor had a warning sticker about letting the engine idle before shutting down to cool the turbo. Subsequent turbos that I have operated do not have such warning. I will say in the winter time and cold its easier to leave the diesel idling.

Cold weather would be about the only time I would let a diesel idle anymore.

It's not really the heat, it's the fact you have a part that has a lot of ball bearings being spun around 50,000 RPM that suddenly has no oil flow and takes a little bit to spin down.

The heat is secondary...

D&B Sharp Finish
01-16-2009, 09:49 AM
Are we talking about the same trucks here? I'm talking about the new diesels. You show me one person who lets their truck cool down when just running around doing errends. I'm a fan of cooling down, but only when i'm towing long distances. I let it idle for about 5 minutes, then shut it off. I do this for both gas and diesels.

I do, A $1,000 to $3,000 trubo is worth 30 seconds of my time to let it cool down. I know most people dont, but they also dont realize how hard it is on the turbos. The new diesels turbos get just as hot as any older diesel...

D&B Sharp Finish
01-16-2009, 09:51 AM
And this from a guy whose avatar is a ZTR doing a wheelie? Kinda gives the perception that you are rough with equipment.


Thanks! This has nothing to do with this thread... :hammerhead:

I am hard on most stuff i own... I also take better care of it than most people. That is why I still have and use ALL the equipment I started with 7 years ago...

White Gardens
01-16-2009, 10:31 AM
I've always been thought to let the turbo cool down on a motor that has been worked hard. We did it to all our tractors back home after we had been pulling hard through the fields.

As for idling normally, on my old 87 international idi motor, and this also includes the 7.3 idi, your not supposed to idle the motor for extended periods.

Reason being is that the rollers on the valve lifters can wear a flat spot on the roller. It has been suggested to rig the high idle advance to keep the rpm's up during long idle operations, but that also advances your timing too.

Something to consider I guess.

Here's an example.

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1096970497044425697nZCDzS

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f31/extended-idling-189660/

LindblomRJ
01-16-2009, 11:26 AM
Thanks! This has nothing to do with this thread... :hammerhead:

I am hard on most stuff i own... I also take better care of it than most people. That is why I still have and use ALL the equipment I started with 7 years ago...

Its all in the perception. Hard on the equipment but take better care of it? Sounds like a contradiction to me.

Anyway is one thing to use equipment and work it, but prevention is the best policy. You may have all your equipment but what have repairs run, versus say prevention?

TMlawncare
01-16-2009, 11:13 PM
you realize theyve all had Turbos since at least 94...Cummins even longer.

When they started using turbo's really wasn't the point.

TMlawncare
01-16-2009, 11:21 PM
You must be getting your info from an incorrect source. The only time you need to let the turbo cool is when your pulling heavy weight up steep hills for a long period of time. Other then that.. when your doing city driving.. theres no need to let it cool off before you shut it off. If that were the case i would spend half my life in the car waiting for the turbo to cool off.

.

Your really need to do a little research. A light load or heavy load makes not difference at all to the turbo. With the displacement of most modern diesel engines the moment you barely step on the throttle the turbo is spooling. The reason you need to let it idle a few minutes is to let the bearings cool down in the housing. Many new turbo's use a oil line and/or a water line to aid it cooling. If the engine isn't running the oil isn't flowing which aids in cooling. If you don't want to set in the truck for a couple minutes you can alway buy a turbo timer.

TMlawncare
01-16-2009, 11:24 PM
It makes no difference whether it is a heavy load or a light load, they need a period of cooling/spindown. Detroits with blowers only and naturally aspirated engines are the only ones that can survive repeated hot shutdowns. It isn't just for the cooling but also to allow the turbo to spin down with enough oil on the bearings to prevent metal to metal contact. Some makes even have electric driven oil pumps to supply cooling oil after the engines have been shutdown for 15 minutes or so.

The electric driven oil pumps are pretty new. I think all the OEM's should make that feature standard.

mason dude
01-19-2009, 07:36 PM
I think these guys are "over compensating " for something, so to them it is worth the fuel and extra hours on the engine just to feel all grown up. We camp a lot and the guys with the loud cummins wont shut it down until their entire campsite is all set, meanwhile we all sit and smell it and attempt to have mature conversation about why the diesel owners mommy didnt make him feel special enough, oh yeah thats what we're all thinkin big guy

LindblomRJ
01-19-2009, 07:38 PM
I think these guys are "over compensating " for something, so to them it is worth the fuel and extra hours on the engine just to feel all grown up. We camp a lot and the guys with the loud cummins wont shut it down until there entire campsite is all set, meanwhile we all sit and smell it and attempt to have mature conversation about why the diesel owners mommy didnt make him feel special enough, oh yeah thats what we're all thinkin big guy

That or over compensate for his "short comings" :laugh: