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The Lawn Gator
01-14-2009, 07:40 PM
I have taken on two large commercial accounts and will be doing large applications for the first time. Where can I learn what products to use, how to use, when etc....

Do you buy your chemicals online or do you buy locally, i'm a bit limited to who I can buy from locally.

Do pre emergents fertilize as well as stop weed growth?

mattfromNY
01-14-2009, 07:47 PM
Dont want to rain on your parade, but dont you think you should have known this stuff before bidding the job????
How did you ever bid a job without knowing what materials/ cost of materials to use????
I'm at a loss for words.......

The Lawn Gator
01-14-2009, 07:59 PM
I made my estimates from comparing cost of a smaller account I have. I just used typical ferts and herbs. on that account. Simple spring, summer applications.

mattfromNY
01-14-2009, 08:20 PM
Not trying to be smart, just baffled a little.
Maybe the laws are different in Oregon than most of the rest of the country, but usually you need to be certified to apply any herbicides/ pesticides, etc. Generally, either through working with someone who is a certified applicator or through training to get your certification, you will learn the basics.
The questions you ask are very basic, which would lead anyone to believe you are not certified. Maybe you dont need to be in Oregon, I dont know.
Best to do as much research as possible before spring. Hope you didn't quote for services you are not familiar with. If you've done some fert. in the past and have an idea of your costs/ thousand square feet, etc., you should be alright.
Snoop around on here a little more, do some searches, there are some VERY knowledgeable guys that are on here a lot and usually very helpful to answer any questions. I am only certified one year, so I am still learning as well.
Matt.

turf hokie
01-14-2009, 08:28 PM
I made my estimates from comparing cost of a smaller account I have. I just used typical ferts and herbs. on that account. Simple spring, summer applications.

Then go from here. We dont change a our products based on size of the account.:hammerhead:

The Lawn Gator
01-14-2009, 09:24 PM
You have to be certified to do pesticide applications but not herbicides. I'm going to check in with our local company, Round Butte Seed co. and see what they have to say.

I think your right on the difference from west coast to east coast. I can't imagine do six applications to any lawn, that's way over doing it not to mention I don't have any customers that would buy off on that. Hell, I always have to persuade them to let me fertilize.

I wouldn't be able to compete with other competitors if I charge for that much labor and materials.

jbturf
01-14-2009, 09:30 PM
herbicide is a pesticide
g/l

JDUtah
01-15-2009, 02:23 AM
Yes an herbicide is a pesticide.

Pesticides kill/control pests. What pests?

Insecticide ... insects
Fungicide ... fungi
Rodenticide ... rodents
Herbicide ... weeds

Different kinds of pests. Pesticides are not just for insects... weeds are considered pests too.

Call your local extension office and get the books to get certified ASAP. It would suck to to be nailed with a $25,000 fine and/or thrown in jail.

Ric
01-15-2009, 07:53 AM
Yes an herbicide is a pesticide.

Pesticides kill/control pests. What pests?

Insecticide ... insects
Fungicide ... fungi
Rodenticide ... rodents
Herbicide ... weeds

Different kinds of pests. Pesticides are not just for insects... weeds are considered pests too.

Call your local extension office and get the books to get certified ASAP. It would suck to to be nailed with a $25,000 fine and/or thrown in jail.

JD

What license? If Home Depot sells it why can't anyone apply it??? The girl at the cash register will tell me what to use. They can't fine me, I will just tell them I didn't know the law.

dishboy
01-15-2009, 08:00 AM
In this state you don't need a license if you do not advertise as a applicator, do not use a engine driven pump and are taking care of the rest of the property. Here a Gardner is on equal ground as a homeowner.

Ric
01-15-2009, 08:16 AM
In this state you don't need a license if you do not advertise as a applicator, do not use a engine driven pump and are taking care of the rest of the property. Here a Gardner is on equal ground as a homeowner.

Dishboy

There you go a state with progressive thinking. That is the way to keep professionalism in the industry. BTW does your State give out Lawnsites URL so people can ask which fertilizer to apply to their dead lawn to make it green again?

mattfromNY
01-15-2009, 08:30 AM
It IS a lot of labor to do 6 apps. over the course of a season, that's why any pro knows you should put down all of your nitrogen for the year, pre-M, post emergent herbicide, grub control and insecticidal soap in one application, done the first week of March. Regardless of the weather, that is the ideal time to pile it on, which will leave you plenty of time to do all your spring cleanups before you start mowing. Remember, it is all in the timing. The better it fits YOUR schedule, the better it is for the lawn.

sprayboy
01-15-2009, 08:30 AM
In this state you don't need a license if you do not advertise as a applicator, do not use a engine driven pump and are taking care of the rest of the property. Here a Gardner is on equal ground as a homeowner.

I don't know what state you are in but here we are professional lawn care companies, not gardeners.

What kinda drugs were your lawmakers on when they came up with those laws.

dishboy
01-15-2009, 08:33 AM
Dishboy

There you go a state with progressive thinking. That is the way to keep professionalism in the industry. BTW does your State give out Lawnsites URL so people can ask which fertilizer to apply to their dead lawn to make it green again?

My observations are that the state mandated regulation has little effect on professionalism one way or the other.
You still have to comply with the other laws concerning the safe use and handling of the materials in question. I see violations on both side of that license. Unfortunately you can't legislate a brain.

Ric
01-15-2009, 08:54 AM
My observations are that the state mandated regulation has little effect on professionalism one way or the other.
You still have to comply with the other laws concerning the safe use and handling of the materials in question. I see violations on both side of that license. Unfortunately you can't legislate a brain.

Dishboy

Yes that does seem to be lacking.

LawnTamer
01-15-2009, 11:09 AM
In this state you don't need a license if you do not advertise as a applicator, do not use a engine driven pump and are taking care of the rest of the property. Here a Gardner is on equal ground as a homeowner.

You might want to research that. It would seem to be in conflict with federal law regarding pesticide application. It sounds like one of those goofy wives' tales that get spread around.

Here there was this tale like that. It went that if you sold the product to the homeowner, then it was technically his/hers and you could apply it for them, (just to be nice). The law is specific though, and the state Dept of Ag came down on them like a 400lb dieter on a cupcake. They had applied pesticides for compensation without being certified and they got fined. They also got turned into the state tax commission. In Utah, sales tax isn't applied to services, but to sale of goods, since these baffoons had tried to sell product, then apply it. The tax commission went after them too. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Ric
01-15-2009, 11:32 AM
You might want to research that. It would seem to be in conflict with federal law regarding pesticide application. It sounds like one of those goofy wives' tales that get spread around.

Here there was this tale like that. It went that if you sold the product to the homeowner, then it was technically his/hers and you could apply it for them, (just to be nice). The law is specific though, and the state Dept of Ag came down on them like a 400lb dieter on a cupcake. They had applied pesticides for compensation without being certified and they got fined. They also got turned into the state tax commission. In Utah, sales tax isn't applied to services, but to sale of goods, since these baffoons had tried to sell product, then apply it. The tax commission went after them too. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Lawn Tamer

We all have got, get caught stories with fines. Mine is a guy who used boiling water to drench Fire Ant mound about 15 years ago. He made some gadget from a propane tank that made steam and worked good by injecting it into the mound. His big mistake was to advertise Free Fire Ant control with lawn mowing. Someone turned him in and the State jumped on him. Now interesting enough Boiling Water is the recommended Fire Ant mound treatment because it has the least impact on the environment. It was a question on the State CPO test when I took the CPO L & O test. I would have missed that question had I not known of this Guy and his Boiling Water control. But My point here is the act of control, whether it uses Pesticides or not, is illegal without a License.

dishboy
01-15-2009, 12:13 PM
You might want to research that. It would seem to be in conflict with federal law regarding pesticide application. It sounds like one of those goofy wives' tales that get spread around.

Here there was this tale like that. It went that if you sold the product to the homeowner, then it was technically his/hers and you could apply it for them, (just to be nice). The law is specific though, and the state Dept of Ag came down on them like a 400lb dieter on a cupcake. They had applied pesticides for compensation without being certified and they got fined. They also got turned into the state tax commission. In Utah, sales tax isn't applied to services, but to sale of goods, since these baffoons had tried to sell product, then apply it. The tax commission went after them too. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

I copied and pasted this out current Dept of Ag regulations.


7) Exemptions:
(a) The following persons are exempt from subsections (2), (3) and (4) of
this section unless the person is applying chemicals through an irrigation
system:
1. Any person applying pesticides other than restricted-use
pesticides for himself or on an exchange of service basis, and who
does not publicly hold himself out as a professional applicator; and
2. any person using hand-powered equipment to apply pesticides other
than restricted-use pesticides to lawns, or to ornamental trees and
shrubs owned by such person, or as an incidental part of his business
of taking care of yards for remuneration, and is not holding himself
out as a professional applicator;

LawnTamer
01-15-2009, 12:18 PM
I copied and pasted this out current Dept of Ag regulations.


7) Exemptions:
(a) The following persons are exempt from subsections (2), (3) and (4) of
this section unless the person is applying chemicals through an irrigation
system:
1. Any person applying pesticides other than restricted-use
pesticides for himself or on an exchange of service basis, and who
does not publicly hold himself out as a professional applicator; and
2. any person using hand-powered equipment to apply pesticides other
than restricted-use pesticides to lawns, or to ornamental trees and
shrubs owned by such person, or as an incidental part of his business
of taking care of yards for remuneration, and is not holding himself
out as a professional applicator;

That is amazing. Unless you just made that up, I stand corrected. Can I ask what state you are in?
Here the Dept of Ag inspectors live to follow mowing crews around and check for fert with Pre-em or weed-n-feed, or a squeeze bottle of weed-b-gone, then they nail them to the wall.

JB1
01-15-2009, 12:20 PM
so all you have to say is "i aint no professional"

tlg
01-15-2009, 01:23 PM
I have taken on two large commercial accounts and will be doing large applications for the first time. Where can I learn what products to use, how to use, when etc....

Do you buy your chemicals online or do you buy locally, i'm a bit limited to who I can buy from locally.

Do pre emergents fertilize as well as stop weed growth?

No disrespect here but are you've'e got to be kidding. I've read through this entire post And I really have to question your ability here or lack of it. The questions you pose here are basic knowledge. How can you take on these types of accounts without knowing what your doing? I realize that you can to this site to acquire that knowledge and insight. That does show that at least your aware of your weaknesses. The bottom line is this..... NEVER TAKE AN ACCOUNT TO TRAIN YOURSELF ON. You should be asking all these questions and learning all this stuff way before you put yourself out for hire. Did the accounts you acquired ask any questions about your experience or your capabilities? I hope somehow this deal works out for you.

turf hokie
01-15-2009, 01:29 PM
No disrespect here but are you've'e got to be kidding. I've read through this entire post And I really have to question your ability here or lack of it. The questions you pose here are basic knowledge. How can you take on these types of accounts without knowing what your doing? I realize that you can to this site to acquire that knowledge and insight. That does show that at least your aware of your weaknesses. The bottom line is this..... NEVER TAKE AN ACCOUNT TO TRAIN YOURSELF ON. You should be asking all these questions and learning all this stuff way before you put yourself out for hire. Did the accounts you acquired ask any questions about your experience or your capabilities? I hope somehow this deal works out for you.

Because apparently wherever his business is, it is a non-professional company that as they cut grass happen to drop some fertilizer down incidentally

Man and all this time I was missing out on a whole section of potential customers that want non-licensed/non-professionals. What a great concept. I could save a ton of money on state reporting, fees, insurance, licenses, continuing education.

Ric
01-15-2009, 04:25 PM
Dishboy

Since you haven't told us what State you live in. We can only guess most residents enjoy dancing the Jig to Banjo music.

JDUtah
01-15-2009, 04:33 PM
Dishboy

Since you haven't told us what State you live in. We can only guess most residents enjoy dancing the Jig to Banjo music.

Ric...

Just google the text he copied and pasted here. He lives in Idaho.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Any+person+applying+pesticides+other+than+restricted-use+pesticides+for+himself+or+on+an+exchange+of+service+basis%2C+and+who+does+not+publicly+hold+hims elf+&btnG=Search

http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=220340004.K

Uh, oh... does this mean I am stalking you Dishboy? :laugh:

I might be coming up there in a couple weeks.

rcreech
01-15-2009, 04:59 PM
This is freak'n scary!

Wow!

azjojo99
01-15-2009, 11:44 PM
I copied and pasted this out current Dept of Ag regulations.


7) Exemptions:
(a) The following persons are exempt from subsections (2), (3) and (4) of
this section unless the person is applying chemicals through an irrigation
system:
1. Any person applying pesticides other than restricted-use
pesticides for himself or on an exchange of service basis, and who
does not publicly hold himself out as a professional applicator; and
2. any person using hand-powered equipment to apply pesticides other
than restricted-use pesticides to lawns, or to ornamental trees and
shrubs owned by such person, or as an incidental part of his business
of taking care of yards for remuneration, and is not holding himself
out as a professional applicator;

I would call the state ag department and ask. When I read the above, 7(a)1 allows me to apply pesticides on my own lawn, or on my neighbor's lawn if he watches my dogs when I go on vacation (exchange of service basis). 7(a)2 has the line "..owned by such person", again, my lawn, my trees and my shrubs. Maybe the incidental part of his business part allows you to spray a little roundup in cracks on the driveway. But, if you are charging someone to put down pesticides, I feel the state will want you to have a license.