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View Full Version : Diesel Gelling "cloud point of diesel" on a Dodge Cummins


LexingtonKYcutter
01-15-2009, 10:56 AM
I have a new 2008 Dodge I just got a few months ago. 2500 Quad Cab with a Cummins Diesel. Was wondering if any of you have had any issues with the diesel gelling on these, and at what temperatures. In KY with the windchill, its in the negatives( Something we don't see very often) and am worried about diesel gel while driving around.

Any additive you guys would recommend?

WH401
01-15-2009, 11:30 AM
Wind chills' don't effect machinery like they do a person so no need to worry about that. Though gelling is something I would worry about depending on the temperature. But, I would be hesitant to put any additive in one of the new 6.7 fuel tank's because of all the emission's equipment. Take a trip on over to www.dieseltruckresource.com, and read up on the "2007 and up" forum about what people are doing as far as additive.

I won't drive one either of my two 5.9's without putting additive in or my 7.3 as well, but there all pre-emission so it's not so much of a problem. The new 6.7's can be temperamental as to the EGR's and DPF's plugging, as there the only 2010 compliant truck engine, so I would be hesitant about introducing anything else to the system. But I don't have a 6.7, so go take a look at that forum and see what other 6.7 owner's have been doing.

BTW, I use Power Service in the white bottle for treating fuel in the winter, it's anti-gel.

Swampy
01-15-2009, 11:35 AM
ask the gas station if they sell winterized desiel

Gravel Rat
01-15-2009, 02:11 PM
Most gas stations sell winter fuel but if your worried buy bottles of additive. You can buy it as just a anti gell or you can buy it as a diesel conditioner. What ever you buy make sure its for emmisions compliant engines if you don't you could end up with excessive carbon.

Swampy
01-16-2009, 02:14 AM
Most gas stations sell winter fuel but if your worried buy bottles of additive. You can buy it as just a anti gell or you can buy it as a diesel conditioner. What ever you buy make sure its for emmisions compliant engines if you don't you could end up with excessive carbon.

lol GR is so old they were putting Jack Daniel's in the tank in his time lol. Just messing with ya GR

Grassmechanic
01-16-2009, 10:29 AM
I have a new 2008 Dodge I just got a few months ago. 2500 Quad Cab with a Cummins Diesel. Was wondering if any of you have had any issues with the diesel gelling on these, and at what temperatures. In KY with the windchill, its in the negatives( Something we don't see very often) and am worried about diesel gel while driving around.

Any additive you guys would recommend?

It was -10 degrees here this morning. My cummins started right up, no problems, no additives, no fuel gelling, no plugging it in, either.

nosparkplugs
01-16-2009, 05:59 PM
Just like a diet of junk food can adversely affect a human's health, a diesel engine cannot function properly on a diet of improper diesel fuel. Here's some advice on what characteristics to look for in diesel fuel No. 2, or DF2.
Whether you buy diesel at the local station, or you bid for your diesel fuel, you need to know the characteristics of the diesel fuel your buying.

It's important to spec diesel fuel characteristics because not all DF2 fuel is the same. In fact, DF2 has several different properties that are important for the operation and emission performance for your engine. All engine manufacturers and most truck and bus OEM's will spec the fuel because of the need to control engine performance and emissions.

The following six characteristics for your DF2 fuel are what you should be aware of in order to maintain optimum performance of your diesel engine: cetane, lubricity, pour and cloud point, sulfur content and biologic oil content.

CETANE: The word cetane represents the ignition value of the fuel. Currently the on-highway DF2 has a value from 40 to 55. Most electronic diesel engines require a cetane rating of 45 or higher. Higher cetane values tend to improve the engine's cold-starting performance and reduce white smoke.

LUBRICITY: Just like a door hinge needs oil to continue working smoothly, fuel must be capable of lubricating the system components in order to prolong the fuel system. Since sulfur content has been reduced in diesel fuel due to EPA mandates, the fuel has lost some of its lubricating ability. It's important to specify lubricity as many fuels available have too little lubricating abilities.

A test called SL BOCLE will measure the fuels' ability to lubricate and express the lubricity in grams of load. Many engine manufacturers require a minimum SL BOCLE rating of 3,100 grams. The higher the value, the better the lubricating ability.

POUR AND CLOUD POINT: Pour and cloud point should be tailored for your specific climate needs. The cloud point refers to the fuel's temperature as it begins to thicken and "cloud." The pour point refers to the temperature of the diesel fuel as it thickens and will no longer pour. Some engines will fail to run at the cloud point, but all engines will fail at the pour point. Usually the cloud and pour point are 20 degrees apart. Normal cloud point often occurs at 40 F and pour point at 15-20 F with DF2 fuel. If you are in a cold climate, use winterized fuel or winter blended diesel fuel, which is a mixture of DF1 and DF2. DF1 has a lower pour point, but also has a lower viscosity, or weight, and is harder on the fuel injectors, which is why blended mixture is recommended for cooler climates.

Sulfur naturally occurs in most of all crude oils, which includes diesel fuel. Although sulfur does help with lubrication, it also has negative effects to the life of the component and raises emissions. When sulfur burns, it creates sulfur dioxide (SO2 ), which has a bad odor and is a precursor to acid rain.

The EPA has a mandated reduction schedule regarding sulfur content, which is defined in parts per million (ppm). Currently, the allowable maximum is 500-ppm. By 2006, the limit will be 15-ppm. Emission performance is directly impacted by sulfur content. DF2 sold in California already has less than 300-ppm, and a Green Diesel Technology™ bus requires ultra-low-sulfur fuel below 15-ppm.

Blended diesel fuels contain some portion of biologic oils such as soybean or cottonseed oil. While biologic oils tend to have low sulfur content, they often have low cetane ratings and can support living organisms in your fuel. Despite this, biologic blends can be used as long as the DF2 still meets your total specifications for cetane, cloud point and pour point, lubricity, sulfur content and the biologic content is no more than 20 percent.

To help the environment and engine performance.

Cetane rating of 45 or above; 50 for winter fuel.

Lubricity of SL BOCLA 3,100 grams or higher.

A cloud and pour point based on the expected temperatures for your climate.

Sulfur content in fuel that is less than 500-ppm. A content of 250-ppm is better for the engine and 15-ppm is even better for the diesel engine and the environment.

Blended biologic oils that are not more than 20 percent by volume.

Dirt Digger2
01-16-2009, 06:26 PM
i have been using this recently....with the low tonight of -3 we will see how good it works...it also has "slick diesel" in it for adding lubricity to ULSD fuels

the bottle says it works on all new emission diesels too, you can buy it at any tractor supply store

http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/default.asp?view=app

CrystalCreek
01-16-2009, 07:07 PM
i have been using this recently....with the low tonight of -3 we will see how good it works...it also has "slick diesel" in it for adding lubricity to ULSD fuels

the bottle says it works on all new emission diesels too, you can buy it at any tractor supply store

http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/default.asp?view=app

I have used this product on every fill up since new. I have never had a gelling problem even up in old forge NY. I have been up there when -30 temps have hit, and the truck still started. Had it plugged in though.

nosparkplugs
01-16-2009, 07:10 PM
i have been using this recently....with the low tonight of -3 we will see how good it works...it also has "slick diesel" in it for adding lubricity to ULSD fuels

the bottle says it works on all new emission diesels too, you can buy it at any tractor supply store

http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/default.asp?view=app


While their is no reported engine failures, Most are shocked to learn their "beloved" Power Service products are 98.5% Stoddard Solvents AKA paint thinner. Stoddard Solvents work great for cleaning dirty fuel injector systems their not the best all around diesel fuel additive.

DBL
01-16-2009, 07:51 PM
i have been using this recently....with the low tonight of -3 we will see how good it works...it also has "slick diesel" in it for adding lubricity to ULSD fuels

the bottle says it works on all new emission diesels too, you can buy it at any tractor supply store

http://www.powerservice.com/dfs/default.asp?view=app

i also run this.....my truck has been sitting for about a week and half now ive been driving one of the work trucks around i think ill take it back out this weekend

J&R Landscaping
01-16-2009, 10:24 PM
I use that white bottle power service as well as red line oil's diesel fuel catalyst. My truck was sitting for 4 days (no heater) and it fired right up.

NOS, what do you use for an anti gel in your truck?

IA_James
01-17-2009, 01:13 AM
Only time I've ever had trouble was just the other day. I normally put the PS white bottle in in the winter time. I normally run a 50/50 #2/#1 from the local truck stop, but I'd filled up in a hurry from a gas station that sells quite a bit of diesel. I like using their stuff, I get a litle better mileage from it. It was advertised as "winterized". For some reason, and I'm not sure what came over me, but I believed them. And then, to compound it, I forgot that I hadn't put the stuff in when it got down to -22 the other night. Well, I go out that morning to drive the hour home (work on the road, so the truck's been parked for close to 2 days) and fire it up. Starts up, I let it idle for 5-10 minutes to get oil all through it and let the idle smooth out. Start driving out of town, and lose power and starts smoking like a bastard. Any rate, long story short, it's -20 out and I'm pulling my filter out dumping PS diesel 911 in the filter canister and the tank so I can get home. The stuff isn't that expensive, $3 a tank or so. Cheaper just to use it in the winter.

ALLPro Landscaping
01-17-2009, 02:37 AM
Do you plug your truck in, Mostly all highway diesel now a days in cold climates, unless your putting off road diesel in which I doubt you cant really buy from a gas station anymore, is winterized, if you have doubt I used diesel 911 it comes in a white bottle in really cold nights, other wise you shouldn't have a problem if you plug your truck in, Now I know the new cummins doesn't require you to have a block heater, not sure why, I hope I could help.

ECS
01-17-2009, 09:25 AM
Do you plug your truck in, Mostly all highway diesel now a days in cold climates, unless your putting off road diesel in which I doubt you cant really buy from a gas station anymore, is winterized, if you have doubt I used diesel 911 it comes in a white bottle in really cold nights, other wise you shouldn't have a problem if you plug your truck in, Now I know the new cummins doesn't require you to have a block heater, not sure why, I hope I could help.

Not true. We get lots of cold out here, and have lots of stations here, yet only one has winterized diesel. Same goes for most of the nearby townships. As a precaution, do not assume your stations are selling Diesel 2, and even if they are, I would still use anti gel. I put in about 1 oz. of DFC everythime I fill up and add a little extra when the temps dip down to the minus #s.

White Gardens
01-17-2009, 09:46 AM
Not true. We get lots of cold out here, and have lots of stations here, yet only one has winterized diesel. Same goes for most of the nearby townships. As a precaution, do not assume your stations are selling Diesel 2, and even if they are, I would still use anti gel. I put in about 1 oz. of DFC everythime I fill up and add a little extra when the temps dip down to the minus #s.

I went to reputable fuel station the other night when I was plowing. At 4 in the morning, and -15 degrees, the pumps had gelled from not being used in the night. I finally found one that was a trickle for 15 seconds before it cleared itself, and I froze my tail off waiting for it to fill.

Needless to say I put a little extra additive in to be on the safe side. I always use additives on every tank as I have an older 6.9 diesel with a mechanical injection pump.

WH401
01-17-2009, 10:32 PM
Do you plug your truck in, Mostly all highway diesel now a days in cold climates, unless your putting off road diesel in which I doubt you cant really buy from a gas station anymore, is winterized, if you have doubt I used diesel 911 it comes in a white bottle in really cold nights, other wise you shouldn't have a problem if you plug your truck in, Now I know the new cummins doesn't require you to have a block heater, not sure why, I hope I could help.

911 is the red bottle, it's an alcohol based solution and you don't want to run it regularly, only when the fuel is gelled. The white bottle is the regular anti-gel you can run all the time and is what you want to add to the tank every time you fill up.

02DURAMAX
01-17-2009, 11:30 PM
I use stanadyne!!!!!!!!!!

Gold86
01-18-2009, 07:47 PM
I run the white bottle power service on my 2003 5.9 cummins. The day after I bought my truck I installed a FASS pump, which is a very realible lift pump that provides a good source of fuel to the injection pump at all times. The only draw back is the rubber line gets ran along the frame and not tucked up like the factory one. Last year we got a little snow and the snow got frozen up under the truck around the line, it sat for a few days and when I went to go drive it quit running (no addititive). I had to haul the truck home and put it up on the lift and had the heater up under for a whole day before it would run normal .So this winter we have been running the white bottle with absolutely no problems at all, even with the -12 degrees temp and snow here in Indiana this past week. To me it's just cheap insurance that my injector pump will get a good flow of fuel.