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turfsolutions
01-15-2009, 09:07 PM
I heard at this years Pa. turf conference that a petition has been signed and it has been requested that 2-4d's registration be pulled from the market unless they can prove that the chemical is not harmful. All markets not local. The petition was handed in on Christmas Eve. Anyone else heard this yet? The speaker's opinion was that we will lose 24d in the not so far off future.

Grandview
01-15-2009, 09:12 PM
I have not heard anything. 24D just went through a bunch of registration. Like saying prove carrots are not harmful or stop selling them.

turfsolutions
01-15-2009, 09:21 PM
http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/ContentViewer?objectId=09000064807de27d&disposition=attachment&contentType=pdf

Here is a link for the petition. I believe this is the same group (NRDC) that got Dursban thrown out.

You can google NRDC 24d petition as well. Take this seriously.

Grandview
01-15-2009, 10:57 PM
The Natural Resource Defense Council is a left wing environmental group. They do need to be taken seriously. Not much of what they do is based on science.

RigglePLC
01-15-2009, 11:54 PM
Thanks Turfsolutions, after years of study EPA found that 2,4-D is capable of being used safely when use according to directions.

Now the left-leaning NRDC is in the position of telling the EPA that they are wrong. It won't sit well--but what if Obama appoints some dedicated tree huggers to the EPA? Stay tuned. Hopefully the agricultural interests will be on our side for this.

LindblomRJ
01-16-2009, 12:14 AM
I would think that the ag interest would be on this like flys on stink.

Ric
01-16-2009, 01:01 AM
I would think that the ag interest would be on this like flys on stink.

A men

One of the reason Dursban was taken off the market is because the manufactures didn't fight it. Dursban ran it's course and was off patent. Other more profitable insecticides were already in place. Dursban going off market was ideal for the chem companies

2, 4D has gone under the gun before and survived. It may become a RUP but to totally ban of 2, 4D isn't going to happen now.

greendoctor
01-16-2009, 04:14 AM
A men

One of the reason Dursban was taken off the market is because the manufactures didn't fight it. Dursban ran it's course and was off patent. Other more profitable insecticides were already in place. Dursban going off market was ideal for the chem companies

2, 4D has gone under the gun before and survived. It may become a RUP but to totally ban of 2, 4D isn't going to happen now.

I would not say isn't. I see some less than suitable replacements coming into the market. On the thread about kyllinga, mention was made of a herbicide named Lockup. AI of this is penoxulam. This is supposed to be a broad spectrum herbicide for the common broadleaf weeds in warm and cool season turf. Cool season turf is highly tolerant of this chemical, unlike metsulfuron. I have big issues with penoxulam, it is an ALS inhibitor, like metsulfuron, chlorsulfuron, halosulfuron and sulfosulfuron. Does anyone see the similarity? All of these chemicals have the same MOA. Kind of like how everything "thrin" is the same for insects. What I can say in favor of 2,4-D is the lack of widespread resistance to it or the other growth regulator herbicides. However, resistance to "sulfurons" is common in ag and IVM. The irony of this is weeds resistant to "sulfurons" can be killed with 2,4-D.

I also understand the other side of this issue as well. I am well aware of the possible cancer risk and the specific sensitivity that dogs have to 2,4-D. Knowing this, I handle this valuable product responsibly. From 1996-2007, the Hawaii DOA restricted the sale and use of 2,4-D so rigorously, it virtually disappeared from the state. I can tell you, in that time, invasive vegetation took over many of the natural and noncrop areas. Except for the old time farmers and people who learned from them such as myself, no one who is in the business of IVM or lawn care knows what 2,4-D is. Sure, many people know what triclopyr is, but you cannot use that on warm season turf and it is 2-3 X as expensive as 2,4-D. MCPA and MCPP have the same issues of turf tolerance and cost. Also, it is my understanding that MCPA is much more toxic to mammals compared to 2,4-D. I have personal experience working where 2,4-D has been regulated out of existence. The idea of a national ban scares me.

sprayboy
01-16-2009, 10:36 AM
This was sent to us last year by our lawn care asso.
As you can see it came out in August of 2007.



EPA SAYS NO SPECIAL REVIEW OF 2,4-D NEEDED
AFTER YEARS OF RESEARCH DATA PROVE IT’S NOT A HUMAN CARCINOGEN



(Washington, DC, August 9, 2007) – Following its recent decision to reregister 2,4 dichloro-phenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) yesterday announced its Decision Not to Initiate a Special Review of 2,4-D, one of the most widely used herbicides in the U.S. and around the world. (Link to the EPA decision)

EPA’s decision states: “Because the Agency has determined that the existing data do not support a conclusion that links human cancer to 2,4-D exposure, it has decided not to initiate a Special Review of 2,4-D, 2,4-DB and 2,4-DP.”

EPA first considered Special Review for 2,4-D in 1986, and after more than 21 years of research and reregistration evaluation, the Agency was able to determine that no correlation exists between the proper use of 2,4-D and cancer.



“Based on extensive scientific review of many epidemiology and animal studies, the Agency finds that the weight of the evidence does not support a conclusion that 2,4-D, 2,4-DB and 2,4-DP are likely human carcinogens,” according to a notice released by EPA. The herbicides 2,4-DB and 2,4-DP were also being considered for Special Review based on their similarity to 2,4-D.

“The impact of this decision should not be understated,” said Jack Dutra, executive director of the Industry Task Force II on 2,4-D Research Data. “Today EPA definitively stated that 2,4-D is not a human carcinogen when used according to label directions. This has been one of the most widely used and successful herbicides in history, and growers around the U.S. and the world will continue to use it with confidence.”

2,4-D is commonly applied to a variety of crops such as wheat, corn, rice, soybeans, potatoes, sugar cane, pome fruits, stone fruits and nuts. It controls invasive species in aquatic and federally protected areas, and broadleaf weeds in turf grass. An economic evaluation by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (NAPIAP Report 1-PA-96) concluded that the loss of 2,4-D would cost the U.S. economy $1.7 billion annually in higher food production and weed control expenses.

Since 1989, the Industry Task Force II on 2,4-D Research Data developed and submitted to EPA over 300 Good Laboratory Practice (GLP) toxicology, environmental and residue studies which EPA scientists reviewed to assess the herbicide’s safety under the Federal Insecticide Fungicide and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) and the Food Quality Protection Act (FQPA).

The Industry Task Force II will continue to develop studies required by EPA’s reregistration review of 2,4-D, most of which are being required of all pesticides.

For more information about 2,4-D visit www.24D.org or call 1-800-345-5109.

DUSTYCEDAR
01-16-2009, 10:44 AM
so we all buy a life time supply

HenryB
01-16-2009, 10:52 AM
What specific sensitivity do dogs have to 2-4-d?

Grassmechanic
01-16-2009, 11:15 AM
I'll agree with Ric on this one. 24D has been under the gun MANY times before. It has been the most tested and studied pesticide in history. There has never been a study linking it to cancer or any death related illness.

Although, with a lib administration, I'm sure we will be seeing more chemicals banned, well because, that's what libs do.

Ric
01-16-2009, 11:42 AM
I'll agree with Ric on this one. 24D has been under the gun MANY times before. It has been the most tested and studied pesticide in history. There has never been a study linking it to cancer or any death related illness.

Although, with a lib administration, I'm sure we will be seeing more chemicals banned, well because, that's what libs do.

Mike

Right on and thank you for going into more detail. Cancer was one of the main Objection to 2,4-D and was dis-proven.

I not only voted against Al Gore but actively campaigned against him. But his Tree Hugging philosophy has made it's way into my state with New Fertilizer laws inhibiting the use of Nitrogen Fertilizer from June 1st to Sept 30th our rainy season. While this is not a state wide ban, many counties have followed suit. Luck for me My county wasn't as stupid. The State did Commission a study of Fertilizer that came back very reasonable for both sides. While That study would kill my present program, I can live with their recommendations for a new Law. I don't believe present fertilization practices are in fact all that beneficial for the environment. Slow release Fertilizer might cost more up front, but over all cost and benefit are worth the up front cost.

As far as Al Gore and Global Warming goes there are many opinions. Here is a link to a coming Ice Age article. Science predictions aren't always correct and who is to say what really might happen. But here is the other sides view.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/106922-earth_ice_age-0

Grassmechanic
01-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Hi Ric, no need to tell me about the coming ice age, I'm living in it! - the lows have been below zero for the last 5 days and the highs only in the single digits. As you probably know, we (the Great Lakes region) are undergoing our own fert bans, mostly P right now, but I'm sure that will be expanded as well. Elections have consequences. I'm afraid its not going to be a good time the next 4 yrs in the "green industry".

Ric
01-16-2009, 12:20 PM
Hi Ric, no need to tell me about the coming ice age, I'm living in it! - the lows have been below zero for the last 5 days and the highs only in the single digits. As you probably know, we (the Great Lakes region) are undergoing our own fert bans, mostly P right now, but I'm sure that will be expanded as well. Elections have consequences. I'm afraid its not going to be a good time the next 4 yrs in the "green industry".

Yep Mike

The jet stream has taken the southern route and we are feeling the cold also. Just not as cold as you.:)