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View Full Version : Apology to ICT Bill and Phasthound (Barry)


NattyLawn
01-17-2009, 11:02 AM
Over the last few months, we've had quite a few heated debates on ICT's products and the lack of information we receive back when answering questions. A lot of those threads were fueled by growingdeeprootsorganicly and I. Honestly, Bill didn't have to answer most of the questions we specifically asked about his product, although it would have been nice for him to answer some (93% crabgrass control with CGH pops into my head). Let's face it, Bill does sell a transition product to attract synthetic applicators more to an organic/organic based end. Bill's fighting the good fight, and that says a lot overall.

Barry, I'd like to apologize for saying that the forum is being dominated by guys like you and Bill who don't service many lawns....I don't know that, and being on the organic end it's not about quantity, but quality of your program and services being offered.

After many battles with rcreech and others on either forum, I'm getting a little tired of it. It's bad energy, and if anything turns a lot of people off to the positive things I do post. I'm tired of being an internet tough guy, because that's not how I am in person. So once again, I do apologize to you both.

phasthound
01-17-2009, 11:51 AM
Over the last few months, we've had quite a few heated debates on ICT's products and the lack of information we receive back when answering questions. A lot of those threads were fueled by growingdeeprootsorganicly and I. Honestly, Bill didn't have to answer most of the questions we specifically asked about his product, although it would have been nice for him to answer some (93% crabgrass control with CGH pops into my head). Let's face it, Bill does sell a transition product to attract synthetic applicators more to an organic/organic based end. Bill's fighting the good fight, and that says a lot overall.

Barry, I'd like to apologize for saying that the forum is being dominated by guys like you and Bill who don't service many lawns....I don't know that, and being on the organic end it's not about quantity, but quality of your program and services being offered.

After many battles with rcreech and others on either forum, I'm getting a little tired of it. It's bad energy, and if anything turns a lot of people off to the positive things I do post. I'm tired of being an internet tough guy, because that's not how I am in person. So once again, I do apologize to you both.

You never said anything that offended me. If I posted anything to make you feel that way, it was completely unintentional. I've always appreciated your extensive experience in the field and the results you get.

Hey, I'll accept your apology if I can spend a day in the field with you to soak up some of your knowledge. How's that? :)

growingdeeprootsorganicly
01-17-2009, 11:57 AM
Matt,

You are right, The bad energy that is a result of these discussions is for the birds.

If a salesman has a publicly sold commercial product and wants to make claims he/she better be able to back up their claims they make.

I never asked him to show or prove something that he didn't say he had or claimed.

If someone put's something out there as fact or a claim, Does no one have the right to ask question's and expect a honest answer?

Real Green
01-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Nattylawn,

I accept your apology too! Lawnsite deleted the post, but boy did you come off as an internet tough guy, saying I was trying to look cool on the internet. I'll bet you really are a decent guy in person. And this post speaks volumes about your character. Take care!

treegal1
01-17-2009, 12:31 PM
yeah that was big of him and does show some real fortitude.


now let me run before you guys start to hug.................JK

Smallaxe
01-17-2009, 06:44 PM
Personally, I appreciate the participation of everyone on this site. Even ICT Bill -- :)
I especially enjoy the challenge to my presuppositions and when proven wrong - I've learned a lot.

The more I think about it, the more I realize, we have so much more to learn. I typically offend my self, my wife and friends. I have probably offended everyone out there at one time or another.

The important thing is - that we all continue to talk.
I would not be embarking on this, New LCO Business model , had it not been - for you all. :)

Don't worry, TG, I am still hugging myself, and will stop there. :laugh:

treegal1
01-17-2009, 06:53 PM
self hugged!! now that's a therapeutic tool I can get behind.

maybe one day I can get rid of my barbed wire overcoat

Tim Wilson
01-17-2009, 08:02 PM
Matt,

You tough guy, you. That's a nice gesture. We can all learn from each other so long as we pose questions rather than sarcastic drivel and we ensure those questions are answered if possible.

Tim

Smallaxe
01-17-2009, 08:07 PM
self hugged!! now that's a therapeutic tool I can get behind.

maybe one day I can get rid of my barbed wire overcoat

Always,, you try to make me laugh. I hug barb wire everytime, the beloved, Bambi goes through the pasture fence.

It's simple. Look in the mirror and say -"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it !!! - people like me."

When that doesn't work - click on the 'pesticide forum'. :laugh:

Or you could think like me. "I will die alone, helpless, and 20 pounds overweight"
And be a representative for the state of MN.

Same thing. I guess. I don't know. :)

treegal1
01-17-2009, 08:18 PM
"every day in every way I am getting better and better"

DUSTYCEDAR
01-18-2009, 01:14 PM
I AM ALL WARM AND FUZZY NOW
ok matt ill buy lunch and take you to the vet to see where you hit your head.:)

NattyLawn
01-19-2009, 10:01 AM
Matt,

You are right, The bad energy that is a result of these discussions is for the birds.

If a salesman has a publicly sold commercial product and wants to make claims he/she better be able to back up their claims they make.

I never asked him to show or prove something that he didn't say he had or claimed.

If someone put's something out there as fact or a claim, Does no one have the right to ask question's and expect a honest answer?

If you're going to make claims to a product's efficacy, they need to be backed up. That's the thing Bill did not do. Unfortunately we're in a business with a lot shady characters so we must ask questions. I'm not saying what we did was wrong per se, but a little over the top.

ICT Bill
02-02-2009, 12:49 AM
If you're going to make claims to a product's efficacy, they need to be backed up. That's the thing Bill did not do.

Please be specific, to say "Bill did not do" is misleading at best

Bill did not do what??????
Exactly where would you like me to send the information?? please be specific as to the information that was not given, please!!!

Tim Wilson
02-05-2009, 02:36 PM
Bill did not do what??????
Exactly where would you like me to send the information?? please be specific as to the information that was not given, please!!!

Bill, this is easy for you to do. Just look back through the threads for all the unanswered questions which have been posed to you and your inferences to SFI tests, etc. for your products.

I'm sure everyone would be overly satisfied to see these results, etc. posted here and or on your site.

This homework is up to you, as the questions, I believe have already been asked.

If you were refering only to (general) studies/tests of similar products to yours and not your's specifically, just say so.

ICT Bill
02-05-2009, 11:32 PM
I have said 7 dozen times, jeez tim
send us an email as to the information that you would like to see and we would be happy to oblige. I have never seen an email from you or anyone else from the forum (except Matt) that has asked for information.

are you just plain lazy or are you trying to play GOTCHA, paranoid organic forum cool, you can have it. how much information have you posted on this forum??? Is that the way you guys want to play this?? I don't

You make it sound like I am a scoundrel, like there is some conspricacy going on. give it a rest. I need to confess, JF Kennedy, UH HUH it was us, ML King yep
WTF, get some vitamin D

dishboy
02-06-2009, 08:48 AM
I have said 7 dozen times, jeez tim
send us an email as to the information that you would like to see and we would be happy to oblige. I have never seen an email from you or anyone else from the forum (except Matt) that has asked for information.

are you just plain lazy or are you trying to play GOTCHA, paranoid organic forum cool, you can have it. how much information have you posted on this forum??? Is that the way you guys want to play this?? I don't

You make it sound like I am a scoundrel, like there is some conspricacy going on. give it a rest. I need to confess, JF Kennedy, UH HUH it was us, ML King yep
WTF, get some vitamin D

Great answer.



















NOT!

Tim Wilson
02-06-2009, 12:23 PM
Well Bill, you know that to not be quite acurrate and I am not trying to stir up any trouble nor make you out to be a bad guy. My post was not uncivil and undeserving of such an affront. You will have noted my defence of your product on this forum on more than one occasion if you were paying attention.

Regarding questions, it seems to me that you have utilized an evasive technique by throwing out sarcastic comments as you have now done or you just don't post for a while. I believe I have noticed an evasion of direct requests for test results, etc. If I am wrong, I stand to be corrected.

I was inferring in my post that it should be up to you to track down these questions, not others.

But lets put that to side and proceed. Can you post here the SFI test results on your products? These would be the test results you referenced in a post a while back. Perhaps some of the folks can repost their questions which might remain unanswered.

JDUtah
02-06-2009, 02:18 PM
I think it is safe to say... this thread flipped completely upside down...

Over the last few months, we've had quite a few heated debates on ICT's products and the lack of information we receive back when answering questions... Honestly, Bill didn't have to answer most of the questions we specifically asked about his product... Let's face it, Bill does sell a transition product to attract synthetic applicators more to an organic/organic based end. Bill's fighting the good fight, and that says a lot overall.

After many battles with rcreech and others on either forum, I'm getting a little tired of it. It's bad energy, and if anything turns a lot of people off to the positive things I do post. I'm tired of being an internet tough guy, because that's not how I am in person. So once again, I do apologize

Kiril has to remind me of the end goal all the time... which makes me feel like :hammerhead:

I would suggest page two of this thread has missed the mark in a similar way...

treegal1
02-06-2009, 03:55 PM
ok so a re post, if he can answer, if not I'm still cool....


" where does the base material for the NPP come from, country of origin if possible??, or just a US or non US will also work for me. PM, mail, smoke signal. and if he cant say then thats still cool."


I would like just to say that even if we ( all of us ) can be friend's and still not agree then at least we are still friends.......

maybe a boxing ring is needed for a while.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBxvVfy7aJM

phasthound
02-06-2009, 03:58 PM
[QUOTE=JDUtah;2750039]I think it is safe to say... this thread flipped completely upside down...
QUOTE]

So can you guys start another thread so I don't think I'm being apologized to all the time? :)

DUSTYCEDAR
02-06-2009, 04:08 PM
Tree where do you find that stuff

Tim Wilson
02-06-2009, 04:54 PM
[QUOTE=JDUtah;2750039]I think it is safe to say... this thread flipped completely upside down...
QUOTE]

So can you guys start another thread so I don't think I'm being apologized to all the time? :)

But..but.. Barry, I am sorry but mostly sorry to look at and originate from a sorry lot.

Seriously, as I have said before, I have nothing against Bill nor his products. I thought I was indicating a reasonable solution, while buffering the aggressive tone towards Nattylawn. I am sorry if it was taken any other way. Bill can say whatever he pleases and people can ask whatever they want.

That's it for me.

Mr. Nice
02-06-2009, 06:12 PM
Tim,

Your reasonable unbias perspective is truly welcomed by most...

JDUtah
02-06-2009, 06:38 PM
Tim,

Your reasonable unbias perspective is truly welcomed by most...

I agree. Sorry if I did not clarify that my post was not directed to you...

americanlawn
02-06-2009, 06:50 PM
Nice post! I have "crossed horns" with you in the past, and I can't even remember why. :laugh: All I know is you put out a kind gesture, and that means alot to me. BTW feel free to pick on rcreech cuz he deserves everything he gets. :laugh: (not really, cuz he's a true freind)

Posts like this one make me keep coming back. Thanks, americanlawn :waving::usflag:

After many battles with rcreech and others on either forum, I'm getting a little tired of it. It's bad energy, and if anything turns a lot of people off to the positive things I do post. I'm tired of being an internet tough guy, because that's not how I am in person. So once again, I do apologize to you both.[/QUOTE]

phasthound
02-06-2009, 07:51 PM
I know there have been studies done, but people change when they are on a keyboard or behind the wheel of a car.
What's up with that? :confused:

bicmudpuppy
02-07-2009, 11:55 AM
I know there have been studies done, but people change when they are on a keyboard or behind the wheel of a car.
What's up with that? :confused:

Gee, not me! I'm the same obnoxious, there ain't no gray, SOB in person! I could give you references, but they are mad enough I tell them off in person. Finding out I share my opinion of their ignorance might be over the top!

ted putnam
02-07-2009, 12:05 PM
I know there have been studies done, but people change when they are on a keyboard or behind the wheel of a car.
What's up with that? :confused:

Can you cite at least 3 references? Have they been peer reviewed?......just kidding

phasthound
02-07-2009, 03:00 PM
I love a good sense of humor. :laugh:

ted putnam
02-07-2009, 04:28 PM
I love a good sense of humor. :laugh:

I do too. Unfortunately there are quite a few on here who lost theirs a long time ago(if they ever had one to begin with). It's a shame...

ICT Bill
02-07-2009, 10:56 PM
" where does the base material for the NPP come from, country of origin if possible??, or just a US or non US will also work for me. PM, mail, smoke signal. and if he cant say then thats still cool."


Asia, China mostly. The best we have found for our purpose is China. There is excellent product coming out of Canada but it is very expensive

treegal1
02-07-2009, 11:32 PM
cool, kinda figured but wanted it from you....

is it going well now with the NPP.....

Tim Wilson
02-08-2009, 12:45 PM
I love a good sense of humor. :laugh:

I tried to post a hilarious video clip but unfortunately the forum does not accept 'wmv' extensions and when I converted it to 'avi' or 'mpg' the file became too large.