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mudwisr2
01-20-2009, 10:18 AM
Need some opinions here. Customer is having water pooling on the walk in front of front door. The yard slopes towards the house. Maybe 2 ft drop over a 30 or 40 ft span from street to house. Forms a sort of "bowl" where the water stands (pic 3). Sediment dried on walkway (pic4). Pictures 1 and 2 are just a more distant view. There really isnt anywhere to run a drain to move the water out of the area. I was thinking of doing a sort of French drain / dry well sort of creation. This would also involve bringing the flower bed along the walkway even with the right side of door (facing house). Bed would be 1.5 to 2 ft wide and about 12 ft wider and would hide the drain. Anyone have some other ideas?

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u249/mudwisr2/CSLL%20Angela%20Drainage/frontangle.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u249/mudwisr2/CSLL%20Angela%20Drainage/frontdoor.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u249/mudwisr2/CSLL%20Angela%20Drainage/probarea.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u249/mudwisr2/CSLL%20Angela%20Drainage/walkview.jpg

Kiril
01-20-2009, 10:37 AM
whats on the other side of the house?

EagleLandscape
01-20-2009, 11:02 AM
Can you put a collection drain there, and use gravity to let it drain to the side.

If gravity is not in your favor, the only real option is a sump pump and catch basic sunk below grade. just need 110v power, and the ability to dig a large hole.

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
01-20-2009, 11:50 AM
Can't you put in a French Drain and trench it to the curb outlet?? I think that would be your only option unless they want it re-graded?

Junior M
01-20-2009, 11:53 AM
We do alot of jobs like this, and we've found the cheapest, easiest solution is a swale to carry the water from there around the corner of the house, doesnt take much dirt work, and the grate is simple, but your are going to have to grade everything towards the grate.. Another thing, somebody mentioned a pump, you can do that, but we are in the process of trying to move the water away from a house, a very similar situation, and there is a pump there now, but it cant keep up with the water flow, and there doesnt look to be near as much fall as the lot in the pictures...

AGLA
01-20-2009, 10:27 PM
The first thing to do is to reduce as much of the sources of water as practicle and possible. Start with a gutter on the porch.

Second is to investigate re-grading to drain away water on the surface. That can be to continue on or to a retention basin (rain garden, bioswale, or whatever you want to call it).

Third is to inestigate using catch basins to collect the water. Then to determine if the soil can absorb it efficiently (drywell, leachpit,...) or if there is a place to "daylight" the pipe effectively.

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
01-20-2009, 10:39 PM
Would it maybe make sense to plant a bunch of shrubs or something along the front of the house that may absorb a lot of this water??

AGLA
01-21-2009, 07:13 AM
No, you are not going to vacuum up a surface water with plants.

Other things you could do are to reduce compaction and you could even use a soil srfactant in the broader area to help absorb more water.

mudwisr2
01-21-2009, 09:57 AM
Don't think a pump is something they will want to do. The issue is, I believe, the problem area is created by a very slight funnel effect. The swale type idea is what I was leaning towards with the bed extension and closed end "french drain."

Dreams To Designs
01-21-2009, 10:33 AM
As AGLA stated, determine the soil conditions and permeability. This may have a simple solution if a permeable soil layer is not too deep. Direct whatever water coming from the roof away from this are if possible or run it into french drains or the newer, modular containment & dispersion systems that are much more efficient than rock filled french drains.

A collection pipe buried under the soil, in a smaller swale, leading to a group of buried, NDS Flo-Wells would be an option if a permeable soil layer is within easy digging depth. You can determine the number of Flo-Wells with a calculator available on the NDS site.
http://www.ndspro.com/cms/calculators/flowellcalculator.php
NDS also sells a corrugated drain pipe wrapped in packing peanuts, sorry I can't remember the product name, but is ideal for catching water under a swale and directing it to open air or a containment/dispersion system.

The idea of using plants is not out of the question, but not to absorb the water, but as part of a rain garden that will collect the water and allow it to slowly recharge the ground water. There is an excellent list of available rain garden plants that can solve a problem as well as beautify it.

Kirk

BrandonV
01-21-2009, 09:09 PM
rip up the sidewalk and put in some permeable pavers... fix two problems at once.

Kiril
01-21-2009, 09:46 PM
rip up the sidewalk and put in some permeable pavers... fix two problems at once.

Ayyy, I'm on board with that, coupled with some intelligent drainage under it.

Dreams To Designs
01-22-2009, 12:50 PM
I like the idea of replacing the hardscape, but that will lead into a whole new set of issues. Even if the pavers are permeable or at least the installation, the water still has to go somewhere. If it permeates through the paver joints, setting bed and base material, it still has to get into the soil if the soil at that level is permeable. Quite often permeable paver applications are used as a catch and retention area, with hopes of some percolation, and still piped off to storm drains, french drains or retention basins.

Performing a poor man's perk test can gain great insight. Dig a few test holes, 2'-3' deep around the area with a post hole digger. If the soil is too difficult to get a hand post hole digger in the ground, you have serious issues, assuming you are not doing this in frozen soil. After digging the holes, examine the soil and layering that was removed and attempt a soil determination. Fill the holes with water and time to see how long they take to empty. If it takes more than 24 hours, look for alternatives to move the water. perhaps digging deeper to find a permeable layer or piping the water out of the area. If they empty in less than 12 hours, you should have good drainage. Besides the soil not being frozen, it can't be saturated from rain or irrigation before performing this test.

You can also get detailed soil information from the National Web Soil Survey site. It's a little difficult to navigate around at first, but it will tell you what the virgin soil was in almost any area of the country. It does not take into account what may have been removed or added due to landscaping or construction, but it should give you an idea of what type of soil you are working with.
http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/

Kirk

Kiril
01-22-2009, 01:21 PM
You can also get detailed soil information from the National Web Soil Survey site.

Second that. All you need to determine/know is hydraulic conductivity.

http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/assessment/test_kit.html

pls8xx
01-24-2009, 04:55 PM
mudwisr2,
There is no obvious solution to the drainage problem. If there was you would not be here asking for help. All of the advice to date has been nothing more than slinging mud at a wall to see if something sticks.

There is a right way of finding the best solution. It starts with the creation of a drawn-to-scale site plan of the property with accurate elevations of all relevant areas. If you do not know how to do the plan and don't want to take the time to learn, I suggest you run from the project as fast as you can. You are not qualified.

If and when you get the site plan done, come back. Someone will then be able to help you.

White Gardens
01-25-2009, 08:53 PM
This is what I did last fall.

It has been tested and it works very well.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=253922&highlight=Rock+For+French+Drain

sunray
01-25-2009, 11:16 PM
I'm sure budget is playing the diciding factor here, I could be wrong.
I see these all the time and there is never any cheap answers.
How much water are you talking about and have you thought of a dry well for that area?

mudwisr2
01-26-2009, 09:57 AM
mudwisr2,
There is no obvious solution to the drainage problem. If there was you would not be here asking for help. All of the advice to date has been nothing more than slinging mud at a wall to see if something sticks.

There is a right way of finding the best solution. It starts with the creation of a drawn-to-scale site plan of the property with accurate elevations of all relevant areas. If you do not know how to do the plan and don't want to take the time to learn, I suggest you run from the project as fast as you can. You are not qualified.

If and when you get the site plan done, come back. Someone will then be able to help you.

I don't think this one is over my head nor does it require a total property scale drawing. I know the pictures don't show the detail of surrounding areas. That's why I gave a brief description of the grade characteristics. I do appreciate your response.

The home owners are looking for a low budget fix. They are friends of mine and I wanted to see if someone had a creative idea. I generally don't post here for project help. Just seeing what ideas were out there.

pls8xx
01-26-2009, 10:50 AM
Time for me to bow out. After all, with only 50 years experience with civil projects dealing with grade and drainage, what would I know?