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TRILAWNCARE
01-20-2009, 03:54 PM
One of the new President’s top priorities is a one trillion—(no typo, that’s Trillion)--dollar stimulus package to jumpstart our ailing economy, including, potentially, a record-breaking level of funding for water infrastructure funding—seven to 20 billion dollars. That means more dollars in 2009 than was ever available through the water construction grants of the 1970s! Congress is currently debating the details—-including what type of projects to fund, use of grants and/or loans, starting “shovel-ready” projects in 120 days or moving to a two-year program, and WEF member concerns are certainly on their radar screen.
(http://wefwaterblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/water-infrastructure-yes-we-can.html)

hoskm01
01-20-2009, 04:06 PM
Iffffffy......0

Mike Leary
01-20-2009, 04:17 PM
Cares little, given everyone's track record.

Wet_Boots
01-20-2009, 04:26 PM
How about an effort to build secondary water systems in areas of shortage?

Mike Leary
01-20-2009, 04:42 PM
Or permit the use of grey water for irrigation?

hoskm01
01-20-2009, 04:59 PM
Or permit the use of grey water for irrigation?
Theres a novel effort.

Goodyear, with the new inspections, was smart enough to lay reclaimed water infrastructure for HOA and commercial sized irrigation use. No savings, price wise, per gallon, but ingenious, IMO

Been in for 10 years or so. All the hydrants and irrigation in the city, minus resi's, are reclaimed.

Mike Leary
01-20-2009, 05:03 PM
Been in for 10 years or so. All the hydrants and irrigation in the city, minus resi's, are reclaimed.

Leave it to the desert to figure that out first. :clapping:

mikecaldwell1204
01-20-2009, 08:12 PM
It may contain that but it is just gonna end up lining the pockets of the wealthy construction owners as usual. Saw some of the things the local governments are asking for and its all a bunch of useless road extensions and other pork projects.

Mike Leary
01-20-2009, 08:44 PM
It may contain that but it is just gonna end up lining the pockets of the wealthy construction owners as usual. Saw some of the things the local governments are asking for and its all a bunch of useless road extensions and other pork projects.

Go fool around on a non-topic forum; leave us alone, got enough things to deal with.

DanaMac
01-20-2009, 09:22 PM
Go fool around on a non-topic forum; leave us alone, got enough things to deal with.

Like crying in your wine, and hunting for meteorites?

Mike Leary
01-20-2009, 09:27 PM
Like crying in your wine, and hunting for meteorites?

Politics has zip to do with us; everything else is fair game.

Waterit
01-20-2009, 10:15 PM
We've been using reclaimed on public ballfields and in subdivisions for years - but not of course at any of the multi-acre schools that've been built in the last few years even though 2 of the schools I did had reclaimed passing through to the subd behind them. Two local golf courses (one 36-hole, 1 18, both with driving ranges) also use reclaimed.

$5 a month for HO's to use reclaimed. Have recently seen signs for reclaimed users with even #'d houses to water on even days, odd on odd, no one to water on Sunday. Thinking the monthly charge will be rising soon.

irrig8r
01-20-2009, 11:39 PM
There has been recycled water applied to a lot of turf and landscape here for years.

http://www.sanjoseca.gov/sbwr/images/system-map_overview.gif

None goes to residential. Parks, golf courses, industrial parks, etc.

"South Bay Water Recycling (SBWR) consists of over 100 miles of pipe serving the cities of Milpitas, Santa Clara and San José. During the summer months, an average of 15 million gallons of recycled water are produced and distributed to over 550 customers per day, preserving our valuable drinking water for future generations."

It represents 10% of the recycled water. The rest gets pumped into the bay.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-21-2009, 06:28 AM
There has been recycled water applied to a lot of turf and landscape here for years.

http://www.sanjoseca.gov/sbwr/images/system-map_overview.gif

None goes to residential. Parks, golf courses, industrial parks, etc.

"South Bay Water Recycling (SBWR) consists of over 100 miles of pipe serving the cities of Milpitas, Santa Clara and San José. During the summer months, an average of 15 million gallons of recycled water are produced and distributed to over 550 customers per day, preserving our valuable drinking water for future generations."

It represents 10% of the recycled water. The rest gets pumped into the bay.

Doing the math that averages out to 27,000 gallons a day per customer. Hopefully my math is right. The word "produced" seems out of place. "Processed" seems a better choice but "produced" creates the image that more water is magically appearing. It's still the same amount of water just being thinned out some more. My guess is maintaining that system far exceeds the amount they are charging for that water. I'd be curious to see the budgets and billing involved. Recycled water seems like the final act of of a really bad play. Haven't seen it here though so I have no personal experience. I'm going to investigate the pros and cons.

bicmudpuppy
01-21-2009, 08:32 AM
Doing the math that averages out to 27,000 gallons a day per customer. Hopefully my math is right. The word "produced" seems out of place. "Processed" seems a better choice but "produced" creates the image that more water is magically appearing. It's still the same amount of water just being thinned out some more. My guess is maintaining that system far exceeds the amount they are charging for that water. I'd be curious to see the budgets and billing involved. Recycled water seems like the final act of of a really bad play. Haven't seen it here though so I have no personal experience. I'm going to investigate the pros and cons.

I interviewed for a spot in SW KS where the city was finishing a reclaimed water project. The end product to be stored in a retention pond prior to being pumped for irrigation tested cleaner than the local tap water. Because of the origins of reclaimed water, they won't certify it for potable uses. A lot like the organic argument. A lot of things can be produced cheaper and better for the environment, but consumers won't buy it, even w/ an organic sticker because it has a black spot.

This is where and why I can't get to where Kiril likes to go with water conservation. I don't see the shortage, what I see is miss use. The water that flows down the river and through my irrigation ditch is many times worse than what many golf courses get through reclaimed water programs. The tap water I get to my house is terrible. I have seen reclaimed water that I would much prefer over what I get. Experience tells me that most of my neighbors would disagree. The PERCEPTION of water that was once gray or black is non potable. If it tests clear and clean, I have no problem not thinking about where the water has been. If I have to go there, I can think of all the fish and animals that used to swim in what I get from any other source. I know enough about ground contamination to be scared to death of well water. The water isn't going anywhere. It IS a renewable resource, we have to manage it correctly. The shortage isn't in water, it is in CLEAN water.

Wet_Boots
01-21-2009, 08:33 AM
Grey water makes more sense if it's an entire every-property-gets-some network of mains.

AI Inc
01-21-2009, 08:40 AM
Grey water makes more sense if it's an entire every-property-gets-some network of mains.

Should be mandatory in new hoods in areas with water quantity issues.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-21-2009, 08:44 AM
Bic have you read Cadillac Desert? I'm reading it now. Haven't got far into it but it really makes you think. Why is a desert a desert? You can only fool around for so long then the desert wins. There is not enough water clean or dirty to populate the southwest USA. Add another 10-30 million people in that area and it's all fool's gold. Create lakes with dams and you just expose more surface area to evaporation and leave a saline mess. Everybody downstream gets screwed. The CO River water is used I believe 7 times before it gets to the end of its journey. Every time it gets back to the river it's more polluted. Like I said recycled water seems like the last act in a bad play.

Wet_Boots
01-21-2009, 08:58 AM
You don't create water with the grey systems, but areas of low supply can stretch the clean water farther. Florida in particular. They keep sucking up ground water, and the ocean will reach into their aquifers.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-21-2009, 09:16 AM
You don't create water with the grey systems, but areas of low supply can stretch the clean water farther.

Then what?

Wet_Boots
01-21-2009, 09:21 AM
Hopefully, they keep up with population growth. In some crowded states, the grey-water concept is sort of expanded, as treated waste water winds up back in the same rivers some drinking water comes from. Recycled wee-wee.

FIMCO-MEISTER
01-21-2009, 09:36 AM
The rivers drain to the ocean. Have to have a source for the river water. Equalize the upstream/downstream demand with a lake that causes more evaporation ending in less overall water. Pump underground water 10 times faster than it is being replenished. We need to live where water is easily and cheaply accessible instead of manipulating water to create metropolis where they don't belong. I say we raze Phoenix and Reno and SLCity and Las Vegas and ship all the folks back east. Everybody in this country should live east of the Mississippi. Yes I'm being ridiculous but where is this insatiable appetite for water going to lead to? We subsidize a few western farmers at an inordinate cost but can rationalize not bailing out the auto companies?

Wet_Boots
01-21-2009, 10:11 AM
Hey, this one was a lost issue when agribiz got the acreage limits associated with the Homestead Act overturned, in order for the California corporate farms to get that Colorado River water.

irrig8r
01-21-2009, 10:32 AM
The rivers drain to the ocean. Have to have a source for the river water. Equalize the upstream/downstream demand with a lake that causes more evaporation ending in less overall water. Pump underground water 10 times faster than it is being replenished. We need to live where water is easily and cheaply accessible instead of manipulating water to create metropolis where they don't belong. I say we raze Phoenix and Reno and SLCity and Las Vegas and ship all the folks back east. Everybody in this country should live east of the Mississippi. Yes I'm being ridiculous but where is this insatiable appetite for water going to lead to? We subsidize a few western farmers at an inordinate cost but can rationalize not bailing out the auto companies?

Shutting down golf courses in Phoenix and Palm Springs and Vegas would be a start. Filling swimming pools and decorative fountains with recycled water wouldn't be a bad idea.

Raising water rates would be another step in the right direction.

And raising irrigated alfalfa and cotton along I-5 in Southern California always seemed stupid to me.