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gqnine44
01-21-2009, 12:18 PM
I have a customer who is requesting a spray program for their crabapples. The trees havent had any issues - this would be more of a preventative insect and disease program. I typically dont do much tree/shrub spraying and am not sure what a good program would consist of. (yes, of course we are licesned) Any ideas. Thanks for your help!

phasthound
01-21-2009, 01:06 PM
I have a customer who is requesting a spray program for their crabapples. The trees havent had any issues - this would be more of a preventative insect and disease program. I typically dont do much tree/shrub spraying and am not sure what a good program would consist of. (yes, of course we are licesned) Any ideas. Thanks for your help!

If there have been no problems why would one needlessly apply pesticides? The crabapples sound like they are a disease resistant variety. For insect problems apply horticultural oil before bud break for some prevention. If caterpillars are present later in season apply Bt.

gqnine44
01-21-2009, 01:40 PM
If there have been no problems why would one needlessly apply pesticides? The crabapples sound like they are a disease resistant variety. For insect problems apply horticultural oil before bud break for some prevention. If caterpillars are present later in season apply Bt.

I agree and am trying to convince them of this. However, it is a HOA and they really want a price/program for this service. It seems they are most worried about bagworms...I cant remember ever seeing them on crabapples - maybe they are talking about tent caterpillars? What do you guys who do a lot of tree and shrub spraying programs look like?

RAlmaroad
01-21-2009, 04:03 PM
Give them a good shot of Dormant Oil. Won't hurt and will smother any insect eggs or larva that may/not be there. While you're at it, any other trees like apples, pears, dogwoods or smaller leafless bushes like forsythia would benefit from it also. Stuff is cheap and it will satisy your client and may even land you another account because you cared to listen to your client.

RigglePLC
01-21-2009, 05:42 PM
Most apples and crabapples have apple scab fungus. It can be severe if weather in spring is rainy. A well-timed fungicide spray just as the first buds are opening in the spring will prevent a lot of it. Say about April 15 or 20th. Additional sprays may be needed later in the year--sometimes several times. Do some reading--study up on this--at least try to be informed. http://hyg.aces.uiuc.edu/html/200501d.html

Cedar -apple rust, aphids and mites are a possibility also.

Grassmechanic
01-22-2009, 01:52 PM
For crabapples, I spray hort oil in the spring and again in the summer as long as it's not hot. I also will do a fungicide treatment if it warrants it. That's about it for crabapples.

philk17088
01-22-2009, 04:25 PM
If scab is a problem you need to apply a fungicide at leaf break and at 3/4 leaf expansion. Spray for tent cats and jap beetles maybe. A four service program would be sufficient for decent control.
Be careful of your insecticides and check labels. Some varieties are sensitive to certain chemicals. ie: orthene.

americanlawn
01-22-2009, 07:59 PM
I will not share our program regarding Apple Scab. But I ask this.....where & how are fungicides absorbed? (through bark and buds?) Good luck if you believe this. :laugh:

Is monitoring weather & plant growth important?....duh...guess not???????

Contact fungicides (like many land grant universities still recommend) :confused: vs systemic fungicides? Which ones cuz many come out every year?

Hort oils don't do crap regarding fungi. Then there's the caterpillars. Most folks are sold a bill of goods suggesting that hort oils are a :magic solution cuz they think chewing insects will be "prevented" :hammerhead:

It's no wonder why ChemScape horts (many with college degrees) carried 'briefcases' while the lawn jockeys carried 'clipboards'. :laugh:

My 2 cents worth.

Trees Too
11-19-2013, 06:06 PM
Usually the biggest problem with crabs is scab fungus. Which causes midsummer leaf spotting, yellowing and drop. A good crab-apple spray program would be preventative fungicide sprays from bud break, through the time that they are flowering. Maybe a couple of sprays during this window. If you miss this window, then forget it as you won't do your customer or your reputation any good!!!!!!:weightlifter:

Cadzilla
11-20-2013, 11:26 AM
What Trees Too said.

I never do hort oils. I don't buy into their usefulness.

My Crab program for susceptible varieties is two insect and disease control apps, one at bud break and one a few weeks later. I use Bifenthrin and Myclobutanil and or Propiconazole.

I don't do them often but have had great control of scab with Tebuconazole via a mauget injection.

Then there can be an optional insect app in summer for tent cats or beetles, mites etc.

I also never fertilize apple trees in spring.

Trees Too
11-20-2013, 01:02 PM
To a degree, I agree with you about the level of "usefulness" of HORT OILS. In general, they're intended to control scale, certain gall insects (i.e. adelgids), and some mites. I have found that I can get reasonable control of some types of scale. (Although it may take 2 apps in the spring to achieve this control.) Spruce adelgids?? The oil sprays fail to make critical contact, and the galls form anyway! Good coverage is essential; yet at the same time you increase the chance of "oil burning" spruces. As for mite control with oil. I don't see it.

In the end I think that hort oils are generally used by the big revenue companys as their Round 1; to get out the door first thing in the early spring when temps get into the 30's!!!

Cadzilla
11-20-2013, 11:21 PM
To a degree, I agree with you about the level of "usefulness" of HORT OILS. In general, they're intended to control scale, certain gall insects (i.e. adelgids), and some mites. I have found that I can get reasonable control of some types of scale. (Although it may take 2 apps in the spring to achieve this control.) Spruce adelgids?? The oil sprays fail to make critical contact, and the galls form anyway! Good coverage is essential; yet at the same time you increase the chance of "oil burning" spruces. As for mite control with oil. I don't see it.

In the end I think that hort oils are generally used by the big revenue companys as their Round 1; to get out the door first thing in the early spring when temps get into the 30's!!!

Good post. I agree. I can control scale with some Sevin and a 1% light mix of oil in crawler stage. Mites don't over winter on plant materials is my understanding and part of my decision stems from logistics as well. I don't have indoor storage for my spray rig and spring oils come early for me. I'd be froze up.

I shouldn't say oils have no use....they do but if you're also applying foliar apps at bud break and beyond all season I see no need for oils. Control em when they are active.

To a large extent though Oils that are sold by the main companies are snake oil in my opinion. It's a gravy app.

Trees Too
11-21-2013, 01:55 PM
Ah yes...Sevin. The insecticide that has stood the test of time. When I was just a rook, I inadvertently dmgd some flowers and vines w/ over-spray (non -target) w/ Sevin. Also as I remember, it was a pretty touchy product to use in hot summer weather. Getting back to the original ? in this thread. If someone wanted to mix insecticide w/ their crab fungicides, they could control tent cats as well. But scab control is 1st and foremost when it comes to crabs.

Cadzilla
11-21-2013, 02:50 PM
Ah yes...Sevin. The insecticide that has stood the test of time. When I was just a rook, I inadvertently dmgd some flowers and vines w/ over-spray (non -target) w/ Sevin. Also as I remember, it was a pretty touchy product to use in hot summer weather. Getting back to the original ? in this thread. If someone wanted to mix insecticide w/ their crab fungicides, they could control tent cats as well. But scab control is 1st and foremost when it comes to crabs.

I usually have insecticide mixed with my fungis. I prefer a more broad spectum mix than a more target specific app I suppose.

For example my second round of fruit tree sprays corresponds with my first of two Spruce and Pine I and D's so I don't want to miss anything and include insect control also. It's not terribly IPM'ish but it gets the control I need.

I love tree spraying. A lot more than lawn spraying.

Trees Too
11-25-2013, 06:29 PM
If scab is a problem you need to apply a fungicide at leaf break and at 3/4 leaf expansion. Spray for tent cats and jap beetles maybe. A four service program would be sufficient for decent control.
Be careful of your insecticides and check labels. Some varieties are sensitive to certain chemicals. ie: orthene.

My fungicides of choice for annual-seasonal Scab PREVENTION are "Eagle" or "Tourney". Have also use "Dorado" as a follow-up app and gotten reasonable control.