Heads-up\ run 89 octane

[gusbuster]

Just thought I would let you guys\gals be aware of my expensive lesson that I got today.

This month I replaced my older line trimmers. Bought a Shindiawa T-231(replaces the 230) and an Echo split shaft PAS-260. The Echo had about 5 hrs on it and the 231 about 12hrs.

The 231 was getting to be a pain to run when outside temps got warm. Beggining of the day and end of day would not have a problem.

The PAS-260, after working with it today for 5 hrs, engine siezed on me.

Took both machines back to my dealer\mechanic and told him what happend.

As some of you know, California,because of stricter emmission requirements than the Feds, has always had different gas than other parts of the country. We've been stuck using a new formula since November of 2001.

The reason for the siezed engine and the poor performance was due to this new formula gasoline, which should hit other parts of U.S. by mid 2003. With this new formula gas, you have to use a minimum 89 octane. I've always have used 87 without any problems for the last 25 years until now. My shop guy said that all the equipment that I run should be run on 89 octane.

Just wanted to give a heads up to the rest of the crowd so you all don't have to go thru this painful and expesive lesson.

John

[CS Lawns]

I have a RedMax Trimmer & Echo blower bought from seperate dealers both told me they recomend using only 87 octane. Have not had any problems with either.

[65hoss]

It may be recommended, but last year I switched over just to see. I was pleasantly surprised. I could tell a difference when I put it in. Ran smoother and stronger. I run only 89 in all equipment.

[gusbuster]

Oh, I may have ommitted this on my main post, this only effects the model 2001 CA. Carb 2 models that will be showing up in the rest of the country by 2003. Not everbody right now are getting the new less emmission\cleaner burning models yet. So, this won't affect you now but later.

John

[outrunjason]

Correct me if I am wrong. I heard that the higher the octane the higher the temperature in the engine. Since I live in Texas I might stay at 87 octane.

Jason

[Lawn-Scapes]

I run 91 in everything..

[point]

I run 87 in everything.
Actually the higher the octane the less chance of detonation or ping.
If your engine doesn't ping on 87 it really doesn't ping on 92.
It would be very very hard to get any of our low compression engines to ping with 87.
92 burns very slightly cooler than 87 because there is slightly burnables per volume ( some of the fuel is replaced with lead or other anti knocks which don't burn )
The California fuel formula might contain some alcohol which reduces the amount of heat flowing through the jets and that
leans the mixture out. Alcohol has much less heat than gasoline. This can over heat your engine. If we don't rejet our snowmobiles fatter, when running leaner alcohol fuel, we can burn them up in minutes, 92 or 96 wouldn't help at all.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by TSG
I run 91 in everything..

Same here now, I used to run 87 in the mowers and 93 octain in the 2 stroke stuff.

[mowerman90]

I believe the cause of the problem is the fact that under the law a company doesn't have to inform it customers of the fact that it is using achohol in its gas, if the mixture is less than 10%. Achohol and oil do not mix. There lies the siezing problem. The higher octane fuels cannot achieve their octane rating while using a mixture of achohol. So the solution is to use only the higher octane fuels for your 2 cycle equipment.

[wriken]

The higher the octane the cooler the engine will run. A little secret I used to do when I was into racing snomobiles, after coming down the straight away, getting ready to go into the corner was to burp the throttle to get cold fuel into the cylinders to cool them off. I still do this practice with my 2-strke trimmers, after a session of full-throttle trimming, I burp the throttle on them. Just a thought, see ya

[Hookset]

Your book on echo should say 89 or higher. All my echo equipment says the same thing. Thats what I've always used no problem. Why would a dealer go againist the manufacturers recomendation?

[gusbuster]

Originally posted by point

The California fuel formula might contain some alcohol which reduces the amount of heat flowing through the jets and that
leans the mixture out. Alcohol has much less heat than gasoline. This can over heat your engine. If we don't rejet our snowmobiles fatter, when running leaner alcohol fuel, we can burn them up in minutes, 92 or 96 wouldn't help at all.

Point,
The California gas formula will be a federally mandated formula by 2004 unless the state wants to lose federal highway funds. So our issue here will become a countrywide issue.

As what was stated by point, because the methanol alcohol content in the gas formula causes the machine to run lean, not only burn up gas, but oil. Loose the oil, loose the lubrication. Pretty much the engine overheats. Which is what happened to me.

If the higher-octane gas won't help at all, what is this industry going to do??

John

[Martino]

First of all, let me say that I do not believe these poll results, at least at the 23 vote stage. 70% of people read their owners manuals?!? Sorry, but that contradicts empirical data that the OPE industry has garnered......not even close!

I am also wondering why so many people think that they know more than a manufacturer when it comes to using the best octane level for your machines. Do you not think that the R&D depts. have used every possible octane level available in product testing and have come up with the 89 recommendation? Every manufacturer of quality 2 cycle equipment has been recommending (for several years now) the use of minimum 89 octane in their equipment. No doubt in my mind that these same people are the ones to badmouth dealers and manufacturers when their equipment fails due to their own devices.

[Pacific Nursery]

Great info. Evidently the manuals I have read I havn't read close enough. First I ever remember hearing about running 89 in my equip.

[heygrassman]

All:

Great post for us newbies out there.

Thank you!!!

[thelawnguy]

...complete BS figuring you changed the title from who uses 89 octane to who reads their manual, now what good is the poll since I voted one way for the gas poll and would vote differently given the present title?

Remind me not to vote in polls anymore, at least until the admin decides to not allow title editing...

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Good thing I didn't vote, most of the time I don't even look at the poll in the first place.

[GLS]

I use 87 octane. The reason why? 89 octane hear contains 10% ethenol...and ethenol sucks. I used to run either 91 or 93 (whatever wasn't ethenol) but it is usually 10¢ more p/gallon, and it adds up.

[gusbuster]

Originally posted by thelawnguy
...complete BS figuring you changed the title from who uses 89 octane to who reads their manual

thelawnguy,
This is how the subject title reads:Heads-up\ run 89 octane how you got who uses 89 octane I don't know? If you were deceived, oh well, not intentional.

The point of the poll is to see who reads the manuals to be told to use at least 89-octane gas.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't read the manuals on equipment that I\you have been using for 25 years.
John

[RoewMow]

Our manual says rin 90+ octsnr in our Exmarks (Lazer Z 60" & Metro 48"). So we'll probably mix with that fuel as well.