start up cash???

[JLL25]

I currently work for a company but I want to branch out on my own. I will be keeping my job and doing my company on Fridays and weekends. I have the possibility to get a loan for 45K. I want to buy a plow truck and everything I need to be a full service grounds company. I do not have any customer base but I do have seven years experience and it probably wont take to long to aquire a small customer base. This will be a loan from a family member and it is essentially interest free. However they want to pay for the things I need and actully come with me to pay, not just write me a check. I dont want to give them the wrong impression by just asking for random amounts of cash. But I dont want to have to literally call them everytime I need some money for minor unforseen expenses. Basically my question is can anyone give me some ideas for a comfortable amount of cash I may need to have on hand at least until the company has a legitimate cash flow? Thanks for your help!

[lawnpro724]

Its nice to have that much to start up with, I had a lot less when I started. Do you already have a truck and trailer your going to be using? Hopefully you have a truck if you do then figure a $1200 trailer $300 trimmer $3-400 for a good backpack blower $250 hedge trimmer $3500 walk behind mower & sulky $300 for misc tools rakes, shovels, wheel barrow and so on. Good Luck.

[hackitdown]

Its nice to have that much to start up with, I had a lot less when I started. Do you already have a truck and trailer your going to be using? Hopefully you have a truck if you do then figure a $1200 trailer $300 trimmer $3-400 for a good backpack blower $250 hedge trimmer $3500 walk behind mower & sulky $300 for misc tools rakes, shovels, wheel barrow and so on. Good Luck.

This is good advice, and is exactly the list I started with. I also budgeted $500 for advertising the first season.

I recently bought a really nice used Chevy 2500HD 4x4 with a plow for under $20K. It had only 40k miles on it. And the used truck market is way cheaper now than when I bought mine. You can get a truck /plow combo for the same price as the truck alone since it seems that used plow trucks drop in value once you mount the plow.

So you could have all the equipment you could need for $25K.

[Lawnworks]

I would think you would not need 45k to get started. I would use the least amount possible... you do have to pay it back. I would spend more than $500 on advertising... I know it feels like you are lighting money on fire, but it the quickest way to grow. Why don't you come up with a business plan for your financier? Also, are you going to continue to work at your current job till you get established?

[JLL25]

I would think you would not need 45k to get started. I would use the least amount possible... you do have to pay it back. I would spend more than $500 on advertising... I know it feels like you are lighting money on fire, but it the quickest way to grow. Why don't you come up with a business plan for your financier? Also, are you going to continue to work at your current job till you get established?


I had a business plan written up for only 15k. We had a meeting the other night and they asked what my business would do during the winter. I told them that depending on how the business is doing I hoped to buy a plow truck within three years. We discussed this and how it could be beneficial to be able to bid those accounts that want a year or two long grounds contract. So anyhow they look at me and say "well why didn't you just ask us for all the money you need?" I told them that it really isn't neccessary to start out with that much equipment and that I didn't feel comfortable asking for that kind of money. They ask how much a truck would ad to the cost and I said "well we could go out and spend 15k on something or we could go out and spend 30k on something" They said lets just call the total 45k. So it looks like I'll get a plow truck with a dump bed too, I just have to figure out what to get. I don't want something huge that I can't use for everyday driving (and parking) but I might as well get all the truck I can now while I've got a chance.

The loan is interest free, it will actually be a partnership in which I will pay them a percentage of the net sales and once the loan is paid in full, or once I can give them the final chunk of pay off I will assume sole proprietorship.
Make sense?

[Lawnworks]

That doesn't sound exactly like interest free, but I would still want to be conservative and spend the least amount of money possible to buy reliable assets.

[JLL25]

Yeah actually it is interest free. I pay a percentage of the net profit until the full loan amount is paid back, that simple. I'm not paying a percentage AND a monthly loan payment.....and thanks for the suggestions. I will be as frugal as possible but this is the one time in my life I'll get an interst free loan with these terms, so yeah I think I'm gonna spend the whole 45k.

[Maitland Man]

".....so yeah, I think I am gonna spend the whole 45k."

...AND NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND IT ON!!! :hammerhead:

GM did interest free for 72 months.......doesn't mean everyone should buy the most expensive one....."because it's interest free!"

That stake that they have in your profits...guess what...THAT IS INTEREST!!! It's called interest in your business. Their hand in the cookie jar. A slice of the pie, INTEREST. I know you say that they'll only get up to the original 45k........whatever. Unless it's your mom and dad (or figure-like) then they ain't doing something for nothing. 45k is interest in your business. Your profits will be so slim at beginning, that it'll take FOREVER to pay off 45k out of "profits" and not owner earnings too.




2 words=Business Plan ;)

Then get real on how much you need to borrow. An extra 6 months operating expense in the bank would be a great cushion.

And a loan like this, contact an attorney. 1500 bucks now will keep you owning your business later....






If you don't do the above...... Let me know when the auction is. 45k this year=18k next year or two in a distress/liquidation sale.

[jsw2008]

You have this stuff spread out in two different threads. The other one being under "business management." I don't think everybody has read both.

[JLL25]

Alrighty then jerk-off......

Jee wizz did you say business plan????? What in the world is that?????? So like I have to plan out...like ahead...like what I'm going to do????? Really???
So maybe I should like have everything written up by an attorney, and then signed by a notary. I'm not going to itemize my list of spending here but that 45k isn't a wild number I pulled from the air.

Do I sense a bit of jealousy in some of you that you can't fathom someone getting a hand up like this??? I appreciate some friendly suggestions but come on people, I didn't ask for business tips or legal tips, I asked for suggestions on how much CASH I should keep on hand.

[jsw2008]

You come off like a newcomer in your first post. Then in your other thread you rattle off a list of your credentials. If you're so experienced and have so much more management experience that us, why don't you know how much cash you need to run a business? I'm sure you had to buy gas and supplies, or at least know what was being bought at your other job. And you're going to get screwed with a loan from family. If you don't, I'll be surprised.

[Scagguy]

Alrighty then jerk-off......

Jee wizz did you say business plan????? What in the world is that?????? So like I have to plan out...like ahead...like what I'm going to do????? Really???
So maybe I should like have everything written up by an attorney, and then signed by a notary. I'm not going to itemize my list of spending here but that 45k isn't a wild number I pulled from the air.

Do I sense a bit of jealousy in some of you that you can't fathom someone getting a hand up like this??? I appreciate some friendly suggestions but come on people, I didn't ask for business tips or legal tips, I asked for suggestions on how much CASH I should keep on hand.

With an attitude like that, I doubt very seriously you will succeed in this or any other business. The first thing they teach you in any business course is to write up a business plan. If you don't do it, you have about a 99% failure rate. And yes, you did ask for business tips when you asked how much cash you should keep on hand. That would be part of a solid business plan. Go figure this chit out for yourself. I'm done.

[JLL25]

Ok. I let my frustation get the best of me, I apologize. I didn't mean to say I have so much more business managment experience than EVERYBODY who has posted here. I just wanted a little help on suggestions as to what kind of cash I might want to keep on hand. I have credit cards but I don't want to start using those until I absolutely have to, at least until I have a strong list of contracted customers.

Since I don't know any of you personally I suppose I can elaborate on the situation a bit. The family who want to loan me the money are going to actually become partners within the company. We will have an agreement written up by attorneys and so forth. This is how they benefit--they received a large sum of money due to the death of one of their parents, the money they are getting is somehow taxable, now by becoming legal partners they will be able to deduct the equipment cost from their gross income therefore offsetting their tax liability.

Please don't judge me by my frustrated replies to some condescending advice.

[hackitdown]

".....so yeah, I think I am gonna spend the whole 45k."

...AND NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND IT ON!!! :hammerhead:

GM did interest free for 72 months.......doesn't mean everyone should buy the most expensive one....."because it's interest free!"

That stake that they have in your profits...guess what...THAT IS INTEREST!!! It's called interest in your business. Their hand in the cookie jar. A slice of the pie, INTEREST. I know you say that they'll only get up to the original 45k........whatever. Unless it's your mom and dad (or figure-like) then they ain't doing something for nothing. 45k is interest in your business. Your profits will be so slim at beginning, that it'll take FOREVER to pay off 45k out of "profits" and not owner earnings too.

2 words=Business Plan ;)

Then get real on how much you need to borrow. An extra 6 months operating expense in the bank would be a great cushion.

And a loan like this, contact an attorney. 1500 bucks now will keep you owning your business later....

If you don't do the above...... Let me know when the auction is. 45k this year=18k next year or two in a distress/liquidation sale.

Wow. Lighten up on the kid. He told you it is an interest free loan, but is paid by a percentage of revenue...not too tough to understand. Sure, $45K is a lot of money, but he has a justification for spending more for a truck, he wants to plow. Depending on his location, he could generate $10K to $15k per year from his truck in plowing services alone. I am at $10K so far this season for plowing, and we have 8 weeks left.

I bought all new equipment to start. It made sense to me since I didn't know much about equipment maintanence and repairs. I have bought more used stuff now that I know more.

The truck/plow for $30K isn't so crazy. More than I would want to spend, but it is his choice. Like someone said above, plan to spend a lot of cash on advertising to get rolling.

[JLL25]

So essentially they are giving to me what they would have to give to Uncle Sam, and that way we both come out ahead.
By the way they won't get taxed on the payback they received from me as long as it doesnt rise above their initial investment.

Thanks guys, I think this thread has run its course and gotten way off topic. I've got the same thread going in the Business Managment section!!!

[nnj18]

JLL you're bound to fail with your attitude and why the h3ll did you maek two postings and not give ALL the info in each?????????

[JLL25]

JLL you're bound to fail with your attitude and why the h3ll did you maek two postings and not give ALL the info in each?????????

I made two separate threads because I didn't see the business managment section, when I saw it I thought it would be the better section to have this type of question. The problem is that except for the first few responders nobody has been able to stick to the original question I had. The majority of the responses tell me "You'll never make it!!!" or "Thats way too much money!!!" or "Your family is gonna screw you!!!" or "Just buy a set of ramps and a push mower and a trimmer, thats all you need!!!"

I mean come on! Tell me you guys wouldn't get an attitude over all the ignorant replies I've gotten, and I'll show you a liar.

I realize that when going into business you want to have as clear of a view of potential disaster as possible, and try to think "ok if this happens then what does that mean for the future?". But what about the optimism in starting your own business, especially when given a once in a lifetime chance like mine? Maybe if a lot of you guys were realistic AND ALSO optimistic you might do better in your own markets.

[hseeder]

Wow this is heated. Way off course.

First you have to have a rough idea of what you want to do, alot of different equipment out there. Example being do you want to do maintenance or is construction a consideration, either way there is many many different avenues you could go.

Maintenance

Truck, got 10-15k unless you want something essentially brand new, then that could take up your whole 45k. I would do something a bit older, you may have to make some repairs to plow, but you will have all year to get that ligned up and taken care of. I replaced a plow this year, and it cost me 5700.00

A trailer would be determined on size, and that again falls into what you want to do. I bought an 18' open landscape trailer this past month with a dump insert for my pickup both ran me 5200 all together.

OK, mowers. I just bought two ferris units 08 left overs. I got a is200z 52" and a 36" hydro cut. Both units together cost me roughly 13k

Trimmers, blowers etc. I already have both, but a new stihl straight shaft is about 400 and a br600 I got quoted about 550.00
miscellaneous hand tools rakes shovels wheel barrow etc, roughly 350.00 Now if you figure say 1000 per month for operating expenses you are over the 45k so process of necessity, you can;t plow in the summer, so take that out until preseason sales you will save something but a couple hundred bucks is money in the bank. You don;t necessarily need two mower like I both, get a decent 48" wb ferris is running about 8k, so take out another 5k
you don't necessarily need an 18' trailer, that was about 2500 itself so knock it down to a 10 or 12 and you are probably able to take about another 1k. So as you see, the money can add up really fast. You still have to anticipate your advertising, figure 1000 any how, need some sings for your truck, some shirts etc, something to get your name out there. The insurance alone is really expensive, unless you are going to do all residential work, you are going to need it, solo depending on location I don;t think you need comp, but commercial you will. See there are really alot of avenues to look at.

If you were to buy used stuff all together if you could you find it, plan on say 10k plus your truck advertising etc. Advertising seems like a total waste because it is so much money for maybe. Stay away from phone books, my experience total rip off. Local newspapers, flyers, business cards, Craigslist - another free-b. You got some time yet, aim you equipment purchases at what you want to do, meaning the type of clientele, and size of property.

My suggestion, spend as little as possible initially, make sure you are going to succeed. You can always upgrade once the ball gets going. YOu want to make sure you can cover your operating expenses as well as take advantage of avenues to keep expanding.

The fact that you are going to keep your existing job is huge, it eliminates taking money from your business for your everyday expenses and enables your business to hopefully finance your business. I know it seems like a huge chunk of meat to swallow all at once, but like one of the initially threads said, minimum equipment for maximum results. As long as you don;t get caught up in the equipment acquisition we have all dealt with, you'll be alright. You take the mower you decide on and for about 600 you add a jrco mount and dethatcher, now you can offer a bit of a specialty service that brings in really good $$. Always ways to increase your cash flow with minimum out flow. The JRCO system all their attachments use the same mount, so it is a one time expense per unit. Another possibility for the snow is a snow blower instead of a plow, alot cheaper and easily justifiable if you are doing residential. I would try to stay away from trucks with plows. Usually have had a tough life and alot of money required for repairs.


Good luck, just take a slow and determined approach. I started way back when with a pick up, buddies trailer a couple 21" wb - true value, cheap trimmer and a hand held blower. I had about 2500 wrapped up, so if I dido;t make it, it did not hurt me to bad, sucked upgrading everything, but with the lower start up, it was easy top expand, at a rate that was acceptable for my lifestyle at the time.

[topsites]

First off 45k is way too much, have you lost your marbles? :p
Plan on starting out at the bottom, rock bottom.

.........
Because, here's how I see it...

If you borrow money from a family member or a friend you will fail to respect it.
This failure will lead you to make mistakes in business, which in turn (cut to the chase)
will result in your inability to pay it back.
Once that happens it may likely create a rift, or a deep divide between you and that family member,
and you may end up in a dire situation where you will have lost far more than money.

We don't borrow it from the bank either, for similar reasons.

In real life, running a business is unlike what it appears to be, it is not, as some folks think,
a way to earn more money, or more money than we have ever seen.
If anything, running a business earns us less money than ever before.

You might as well face it, this is one of many hurdles that has to be cleared,
if it were easy everyone would be doing it, and while I dare say that most folks
"try" to run a business at least once in their lives, I also am pretty sure that most
of these ventures fail.

For that reason it is crucial one have the ability to first incur no debt.
And to incur no debt means having the ability to save.
And this would be the reason why we save our own money.
We then use that cash as start up funds.
This leads us in the right direction, right from the git go.

[JLL25]

In real life, running a business is unlike what it appears to be, it is not, as some folks think,
a way to earn more money, or more money than we have ever seen.
If anything, running a business earns us less money than ever before.



What?? If you aren't in it to make money then what are you in it for? Money is the "Great Motivator" just about everybody wants to make more.

[Lawnworks]

So the percentage of net sales that you pay them is ONLY applicable to paying off the 45k?

[JLL25]

So the percentage of net sales that you pay them is ONLY applicable to paying off the 45k?

you got it.

[nnj18]

I wish a family member would loan me 1/4 of that! lol I'd pay like 12% interest, hard enough as it is to try and get $5k outta them.

edited: watch your language.. jodi

[Maitland Man]

JLL25,

Look, I meant to rattle your cage a little. You made it sound as if you'd borrow 100k and spend it all, if they'd do it. I wasn't aware that you have a business plan together that showed your storage cost, fuel, expected maintenance, insurances, taxes, payroll(even if just for yourself), and of course projected revenue. If you have, I do apologize, as only you know your actual numbers that would be needed. It honestly came across as if you hadn't.

I actually did answer your question...having 6 months-operating expenses (again, only you will know those numbers that are needed for the six months to operate in case of an emergency, or downturn,) is ideal to have in the bank. I was stressing how a business plan will help in knowing those numbers...how an attorney would help ensure them. I', honestly sorry for being so hard on you personally....I just see it all the time, especially in Florida. The local lawn mower shops are selling package deals like crazy here....all financed.

[clipfert]

Zero.....That's how much start up cash you need. Why do yo need start up cash with zero customers? Having experience running crew and running a business are two different things. If you have a handfull of customers you will need the basics..Truck,trailer,mowers,trimmers,etc. If you have 1000 customers that 45K wont' be close. Start out with some customers FIRST, that is the hard part. Obtaining the equipment will be the easy part for you. The only other advice I can offer is forget about a partnership...they don't work! Take the loan as a loan and pay it back with no partnership strings attached.
Go find some customers.

[topsites]

What?? If you aren't in it to make money then what are you in it for? Money is the "Great Motivator" just about everybody wants to make more.

I speak only from my own experience, due to the economy factor I grossed 25 thousand in 2008.
After expenses, I am lucky I had money saved or I might not have made it, you see, I save my money.

Oh, and I forgot to mention...

The IRS will want to know where that 45 thousand came from, and once they find that out you still have to pay taxes on it.

If you invest it all in equipment however, then you will have to pay property taxes on that,
and on brand new equipment the property tax in the first year is based on 50% of the value,
the year after that 40%, then 30 and 20 and in the 5th and consecutive years it's 10%.
So now, instead of paying taxes once and being done with it, you'll pay it out over
the period of time that you own the equipment you bought with it.

I know, I paid dang near a grand last year, most of it because of a new Ztr I bought, you guessed it, to defer taxes.
That is all it does for you, myself, or anyone else, it defers taxes but they still have to be paid.

And it could be that property tax is less than net income tax, but then there's devaluation of the property,
meaning the 45 thousand isn't worth what it was in 5 years when it's invested in material things, they devaluate.

Then one has to wonder, as you pay the 45 back if there won't be taxes on that,
this however I can see there is little to no reason to worry about, the lawyer was right there.

Because there's no way you're getting out of paying taxes on 45 thousand dollars
nice as can be, it doesn't work like that.

[JLL25]

I speak only from my own experience, due to the economy factor I grossed 25 thousand in 2008.
After expenses, I am lucky I had money saved or I might not have made it, you see, I save my money.

Oh, and I forgot to mention...

The IRS will want to know where that 45 thousand came from, and once they find that out you still have to pay taxes on it.

If you invest it all in equipment however, then you will have to pay property taxes on that,
and on brand new equipment the property tax in the first year is based on 50% of the value,
the year after that 40%, then 30 and 20 and in the 5th and consecutive years it's 10%.
So now, instead of paying taxes once and being done with it, you'll pay it out over
the period of time that you own the equipment you bought with it.

I know, I paid dang near a grand last year, most of it because of a new Ztr I bought, you guessed it, to defer taxes.
That is all it does for you, myself, or anyone else, it defers taxes but they still have to be paid.

And it could be that property tax is less than net income tax, but then there's devaluation of the property,
meaning the 45 thousand isn't worth what it was in 5 years when it's invested in material things, they devaluate.

Then one has to wonder, as you pay the 45 back if there won't be taxes on that,
this however I can see there is little to no reason to worry about, the lawyer was right there.

Because there's no way you're getting out of paying taxes on 45 thousand dollars
nice as can be, it doesn't work like that.

Jeez man you only grossed 25k??? Thanks for the advice.

[mowcrazy]

I don't post much on this site because of all the arguing and bickering back and forth but My uncle told me something a long time ago and it was by far the best piece of advice I ever got. His modo was always this, when your starting out, buy junk!!!!! It was funny he worded it this way because he never had "junk" but he did buy all used equipment and used an older truck.
Let me explain a little bit. When He bought his mowing truck he went to a county auction. There was a 1982 chevrolet pickup truck there that had a motor issue. It had a lift gate and snow plow that went with the truck along with a salt spreader. He got the Truck and all for 950 bucks. The motor issue was solved with another 300 dollars so he had around $1250 in the truck all together. it was just a work truck, nothing beautiful or fancy. He had the truck for about 2 months When we got our first good snow. He got a contract with a local airport to do around the hangars and the runways. It was a pretty good contract. It snowed all freakin night and he plowed everything there 4 times over because it all had to be done for the planes that were still in the air. He made darn near $3000 in that one night. My uncle and I were watching some other guys off in the distance with there brand new expensive pickup trucks shaking his head and said to me, how in the hell do these folks make any money when they are working out of a $30000 brand new truck. I have to admire him guys, he payed for his vehicle in one night and from now on anything made with that truck is profit. That truck was bought in 1997 and he is out plowing with it today. Now don't get me wrong, he has done some minor things to that truck over the years but in my eyes he is right. The best way to make money is to not go blow it. Same goes for his mowers, he has the same mowers he bought over 10 years ago. They are snapper mowers and he still mows with them today and never has he had any problems getting customers because his truck, trailer, mowers and other equipment arent sparkling new and pretty. His work speaks for its self. He does do his own mechanicin on all of his stuff though and that is for sure why he can use older epuipment. He paid less than $3000 for both of his mowers and he still mows with them today. Think about that for a minute, he spent around 5-6k on his stuff and it has lasted him over 10 years of mowing. Granted he doesnt mow as much as some folks but his equipment gets used and abused because a lot of work he has is cemeterys and its hard on stuff. Anyways, It would be nice to be rollin around in $45,000 dollars worth of equipment but why??? To look pretty. Thats just money thrown out the window. Ive always stuck with that modo and it has worked for me for years. I always buy used stuff off e-bay when It comes to my mowers. Get exmark turf tracer 60" walk behinds all day long for around $2000 and as of now I have had the same mowers for over 6 years. They aint pretty but my work is comperable to anybodys work around here pullin around $30,000 worth of mowers. Thats the best way to make money is to not spend a ton. Just my opinion guys, more than anything I just wanted to share a story and I was bored. I guess one luxury of having nice new stuff is it would definetly be more dependable but is it really worth an extra 40 grand???

[jsw2008]

Very well said.

[Lawnworks]

I don't post much on this site because of all the arguing and bickering back and forth but My uncle told me something a long time ago and it was by far the best piece of advice I ever got. His modo was always this, when your starting out, buy junk!!!!! It was funny he worded it this way because he never had "junk" but he did buy all used equipment and used an older truck.
Let me explain a little bit. When He bought his mowing truck he went to a county auction. There was a 1982 chevrolet pickup truck there that had a motor issue. It had a lift gate and snow plow that went with the truck along with a salt spreader. He got the Truck and all for 950 bucks. The motor issue was solved with another 300 dollars so he had around $1250 in the truck all together. it was just a work truck, nothing beautiful or fancy. He had the truck for about 2 months When we got our first good snow. He got a contract with a local airport to do around the hangars and the runways. It was a pretty good contract. It snowed all freakin night and he plowed everything there 4 times over because it all had to be done for the planes that were still in the air. He made darn near $3000 in that one night. My uncle and I were watching some other guys off in the distance with there brand new expensive pickup trucks shaking his head and said to me, how in the hell do these folks make any money when they are working out of a $30000 brand new truck. I have to admire him guys, he payed for his vehicle in one night and from now on anything made with that truck is profit. That truck was bought in 1997 and he is out plowing with it today. Now don't get me wrong, he has done some minor things to that truck over the years but in my eyes he is right. The best way to make money is to not go blow it. Same goes for his mowers, he has the same mowers he bought over 10 years ago. They are snapper mowers and he still mows with them today and never has he had any problems getting customers because his truck, trailer, mowers and other equipment arent sparkling new and pretty. His work speaks for its self. He does do his own mechanicin on all of his stuff though and that is for sure why he can use older epuipment. He paid less than $3000 for both of his mowers and he still mows with them today. Think about that for a minute, he spent around 5-6k on his stuff and it has lasted him over 10 years of mowing. Granted he doesnt mow as much as some folks but his equipment gets used and abused because a lot of work he has is cemeterys and its hard on stuff. Anyways, It would be nice to be rollin around in $45,000 dollars worth of equipment but why??? To look pretty. Thats just money thrown out the window. Ive always stuck with that modo and it has worked for me for years. I always buy used stuff off e-bay when It comes to my mowers. Get exmark turf tracer 60" walk behinds all day long for around $2000 and as of now I have had the same mowers for over 6 years. They aint pretty but my work is comperable to anybodys work around here pullin around $30,000 worth of mowers. Thats the best way to make money is to not spend a ton. Just my opinion guys, more than anything I just wanted to share a story and I was bored. I guess one luxury of having nice new stuff is it would definetly be more dependable but is it really worth an extra 40 grand???


I like the way you think! I buy things the same way. I bought a Cat 248 skid steer off of THIS site delivered to my house for $4500. I made that money back in one job a few weeks after I got it... and that was almost 2 years ago and it runs like a top.

My favorite line when telling people they don't need the top of line new stuff is... "I deserve it" or better yet "but its a tax write-off."

[JLL25]

Nothing wrong with that at all. Hey I've always bought used vehicles for myself, although my wife has a newer minivan. Right now I'm driving a 91 chevy c1500. It was 1500 bucks four years ago. Since then I've put in a new tranny and a new motor, both myself, I wasn't happy about it but I still come out money ahead as apposed to buying a new truck. I don't believe in taking on big credit unless absolutely needed.

But when the opportunity presents itself like this one, I find it hard to believe that any one who has any faith in what they do could turn it down.

What happens when(if) one of the items decides to crap out on me, then I either have to take time off work and I've got the part cost, or I have to take it to a mechanic. These are simply not healthy options given the fragility of a new company in its infancy. With this money I can start out the way anyone who ever wanted their company to excel wished they could.
No that doesnt mean I have to get all COMPLETELY new stuff but I can afford to get some new and some lightly used. Thanks for all the opinions guys you've all really given me a lot to think about.

[mowcrazy]

Nothing wrong with that at all. Hey I've always bought used vehicles for myself, although my wife has a newer minivan. Right now I'm driving a 91 chevy c1500. It was 1500 bucks four years ago. Since then I've put in a new tranny and a new motor, both myself, I wasn't happy about it but I still come out money ahead as apposed to buying a new truck. I don't believe in taking on big credit unless absolutely needed.

But when the opportunity presents itself like this one, I find it hard to believe that any one who has any faith in what they do could turn it down.

What happens when(if) one of the items decides to crap out on me, then I either have to take time off work and I've got the part cost, or I have to take it to a mechanic. These are simply not healthy options given the fragility of a new company in its infancy. With this money I can start out the way anyone who ever wanted their company to excel wished they could.
No that doesnt mean I have to get all COMPLETELY new stuff but I can afford to get some new and some lightly used. Thanks for all the opinions guys you've all really given me a lot to think about.


Thats the thing man, see I agree when it comes to having something dependable. lets face it, most folks arent gonna have good luck with a 1250 dollar truck. Sounds like he was askin for trouble buyin a truck for that amount but he is one of those jack of all trades master of none kinda people so when something breaks he fixes everything himself. I on the other hand am always bugging him if a unit goes down or have a mechanical issue. Some things I can figure out but not always. My stuff did cost more than his stuff but I must say it is a lot more dependable and thank goodness cause I would hate to bug the poor guy more than I do already!!! Anyways, no Im not against what your gonna do. If your a go-getter and willing to work hard you will do well. 45k is a lot of money to pay back even with no interest but with the equipment you can get for that amount, there is no doubt you can buy some $ makin equipment.
I know folks talk about this all the time on this site but here is another little story n ill try not to make it so long. what can I say i am bored and the grass aint growin through the snow here in Ohio right now so I have plenty of mowchat time. lol. I had a buddy that graduated high school with me that also went into the lawncare business about the same time as I did. He is a great guy but went out of business last year. He had around 45 jobs last year and even had some school contracts. Called me up one day and asked if I was interested in Buying him out. When I asked him why he just replied "I just aint making any money". We talked it all over and the answer was easy to figure why he was going out of business. While I am driving around a 1998 z-71 pickup with 150k miles on it with a bunch of used equipment and doing very well for myself he was driving around a new ford f-250 diesel, pulling a brand new enclosed trailer with all brand new stihl equipment and 3 new exmarks in the trailer. He financed every bit of it and it absolutely ate his bank account up. Me and him are very good buddies and openly talked about what was hurtin him so bad and it was that he just spent to much and couldnt keep up with the bills. Its a shame to cause he did great work. its easy to get so far behind when the finance companies are willin to just let you sign on the dotted line. I witnessed this first hand 2 seasons ago. Thought I would treat myself to a brand new 60" lazer z and man was it nice but I had that stinkin payment!! Then we had the bad draught in the Ohio valley. Thankfully I sold the machine and got what I owed for it, but it made me think of what my uncle told me a long time ago. Buy junk!! LOL :laugh: If your a go getter and willin to work harder than the next guy you will pay that money back on be on your way to having a great business. Thats the one thing I have always been is a go getter when it comes to my work. Matter of fact, I was on the phone all day today callin the different townships to see if they were in need of lawncare for there township cemeterys. Im always thinkin bout that type of stuff in the winter. Good luck to ya man!

[mowcrazy]

Right now I'm driving a 91 chevy c1500. It was 1500 bucks four years ago. Since then I've put in a new tranny and a new motor, both myself, I wasn't happy about it but I still come out money ahead as apposed to buying a new truck. I don't believe in taking on big credit unless absolutely needed.

Speaking of that, I can't say enough about those trucks. Buddy of mine has a 91 c1500 pickup and it has been one heck of a truck for him. his dad bought it new and he got it when he passed away. the truck needed tranny work done to it at around 140k miles. Other than that he nor his father did anything to the truck and he pulls a small trailer with it all the time. It is actually the 4.3 v6 2 wheel drive. The little bugger has over 200k on it now. Those trucks are exactly the type of truck I will be getting next. You can Buy one that looks nice and still has plenty of life and find them cheap!! Thats what Im plannin on gettin for my next mowin truck if mine goes down. May have to get a v8 truck but either way they are great trucks. Sorry Im talkin so much. I can only sit around the house with my fiance for so long and watch csi ny marathons! LOL

[JLL25]

Well if you do buy one soon I should be selling mine hopefully within a month or less maybe. I'll probably post it on this site. Its only 2-wd, but it has a 350 with a large cam in it. I installed the motor myself this summer it did have a 305 but when that motor pooped I decided to go bigger. Tranny was replaced two years ago 700R4. Its also got flowtech headers and true dual exhaust. Anyhow just thought I'd put that plug in for my truck. Take it easy.

[jhastrello]

Being in business with either good friends or family, is a sure recipie for losing those good friends; and eating Thanksgiving dinner alone. Been there, done that - on both counts.

[mowcrazy]

Being in business with either good friends or family, is a sure recipie for losing those good friends; and eating Thanksgiving dinner alone. Been there, done that - on both counts.

It can definetly happen. I was thinking the same thing but I have also seen family businesses thrive also. There are some tight knitt families that just work together. Seems there is no in between though from what Ive seen. I can't say that I would turn down the opportunity, especially if you are just one of those families thats bound at the hip.

[Lawnut101]

Just a question. Have you shopped around for trucks yet? I bought 2 trucks this year, one for $9,800 and one for $10,000. Then I put a used $1,900 plow on one ($3500 installed) and a new $5,500 plow on the other. I got 2 real nice trucks for just over $30k. So you should shop around a little. Trust me, it pays off. I also started out buying a $1,100 walkbehind mower, and used one of my dads push mowers. Still use them both. Bought my mid-mount when I was able to afford it. I've done all this in a years time, so take your time, and take on what you can afford.

What I'm trying to say, is get what you need to get by, keep the extra money on hand, because trust me, unexpected costs come up. And it will be nice to only have to repay $15k instead of starting at $0 if you use the whole amount.

[thomaslawn]

Remember that you are going to need customers to turn a profit. This is something you currently do not have. You are going about things in the wrong direction, if all that cash is available to you, use it as needed.
Example spend 3-4k on advertising, see what results that brings you. I know it sounds like a lot, but it is nothing, the results should bring in enough customers for you to get an idea of what kind of equipment is needed.
Build your business starting with your clients, purchase equipment as needed to fil the needs of your client base. In this economy I highly recommend you do not go out, buy a bunch of equipment, put yourself behind a large amount of debt only to find that you cannot find enough customers to make it worth your while.
No matter how well written a business plan is the bottom line is that cash is king, you must have cash flow generated by a clientele base. Moral of the story build your business as your client base builds, otherwise you may really find yourself in a bad situation.

Don Thomas, MBA

[rodzilla94]

listen friend i will tell you something i work (day job is construction) with 4 uncles and my dad use to be six uncles but some retired.but anyway as i read your post u don't take criticisms to well (well i don't either lol) but trust me if your family member gives you this money it will come with alot of strings attached to it .the family member with the money NOW becomes a expert in lawn care and then tells you what to do what to buy rides your a$$ if the business isn't growing fast enough he will have an opinion on EVERY thing you do. my family was going to give me 10,000 to get started and i said he!! no i will do this on my own watch your spending and trust me every family member that you know will know when you mess up and little talk when you do good. if you don't like criticisms then think long and hard before you get the money. the more you get from him or her the more crap you will have to eat and listen to

[lawnpro724]

Nothing wrong with that at all. Hey I've always bought used vehicles for myself, although my wife has a newer minivan. Right now I'm driving a 91 chevy c1500. It was 1500 bucks four years ago. Since then I've put in a new tranny and a new motor, both myself, I wasn't happy about it but I still come out money ahead as apposed to buying a new truck. I don't believe in taking on big credit unless absolutely needed.

But when the opportunity presents itself like this one, I find it hard to believe that any one who has any faith in what they do could turn it down.

What happens when(if) one of the items decides to crap out on me, then I either have to take time off work and I've got the part cost, or I have to take it to a mechanic. These are simply not healthy options given the fragility of a new company in its infancy. With this money I can start out the way anyone who ever wanted their company to excel wished they could.
No that doesnt mean I have to get all COMPLETELY new stuff but I can afford to get some new and some lightly used. Thanks for all the opinions guys you've all really given me a lot to think about.

I know its hard to pass up a nice gift like your family loaning you interest free start up capital and I'm not saying you should. You should however start out small using a small amount of money to buy only what you need to get started and build up from there. You will have plenty of time to expand when business gets up and going and that does take some time. Let your family know that you appreciate the loan but ask them if you can use some money now to get the equipment you need and more later as business grows. Its very tempting to go out and buy everything you want right away but its not very wise. You do not know how business is going to go and you shouldn't build a lot of debt right off the start. I have seen many businesses go under this way, its a lot smarter to start small and ad equipment as business grows.

[lawnpro724]

Remember that you are going to need customers to turn a profit. This is something you currently do not have. You are going about things in the wrong direction, if all that cash is available to you, use it as needed.
Example spend 3-4k on advertising, see what results that brings you. I know it sounds like a lot, but it is nothing, the results should bring in enough customers for you to get an idea of what kind of equipment is needed.
Build your business starting with your clients, purchase equipment as needed to fil the needs of your client base. In this economy I highly recommend you do not go out, buy a bunch of equipment, put yourself behind a large amount of debt only to find that you cannot find enough customers to make it worth your while.
No matter how well written a business plan is the bottom line is that cash is king, you must have cash flow generated by a clientele base. Moral of the story build your business as your client base builds, otherwise you may really find yourself in a bad situation.

Don Thomas, MBA


Very good advice, same thing I was thinking