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millenium_123
01-27-2009, 10:48 PM
I have been in this business several years and have quite a few customers now. I think I may have to hire help this year, or for sure the next. I dont know how much to pay a person to work for me. Should I pay by the yard or by the hour? I was thinking by the job, that way they dont jack around. They will actually work and get more done in a day than they would otherwise. But I still have the ? of what to pay..a percentage of the job like 1/3 of what I charge? Am I supposed to pay for lunch for them? Any thoughts?

greenbaylawns
01-27-2009, 11:07 PM
I'm thinking of doing the same this year. I think I'll pay them hourly. If there with me there won't be any jacking around. Just put on the ear plugs and go to town. If they can't keep up grab the weedeater and show them what up.

Stillwater
01-28-2009, 06:27 AM
I have been in this business several years and have quite a few customers now. I think I may have to hire help this year, or for sure the next. I dont know how much to pay a person to work for me. Should I pay by the yard or by the hour? I was thinking by the job, that way they dont jack around. They will actually work and get more done in a day than they would otherwise. But I still have the ? of what to pay..a percentage of the job like 1/3 of what I charge? Am I supposed to pay for lunch for them? Any thoughts?

I don't want to get on a rant hear but... Hear we go with this subject again........... this is called piece work and is a very slippery slope in the landscape industry and illegal in some states due to the dynamics of this. industry.... example you pay them 20 dollars per lawn but one day the truck breaks and they only get 2 lawns done, the rest of their time was waiting for AAA. You can't just pay them the 40.00 for the 2 lawns because it would be a violation of the federal minimum wage standard. which in your state i believe is 7.25 per hour this year
structuring your business this way is like having a 55 gallon drum hell ready to tip over. Disgruntled employees can very easily Screw you with 1 phone call and a lie, burden of proof is on you not your guys. This is not the agriculture or textile industry that has piece standards to gage pay this is a dynamic service industry. Oh and then their is workman's comp/insurance audits where they determine your insurance premiums that is based on hours worked. not lawns mowed. But if your just looking for that extra buck in your pocket and not your laborers well then..........ingnore this........

cgll1135
01-28-2009, 09:23 PM
i don't want to get on a rant hear but... Hear we go with this subject again........... This is called piece work and is a very slippery slope in the landscape industry and illegal in some states due to the dynamics of this. Industry.... Example you pay them 20 dollars per lawn but one day the truck breaks and they only get 2 lawns done, the rest of their time was waiting for aaa. You can't just pay them the 40.00 for the 2 lawns because it would be a violation of the federal minimum wage standard. Which in your state i believe is 7.25 per hour this year
structuring your business this way is like having a 55 gallon drum hell ready to tip over. Disgruntled employees can very easily screw you with 1 phone call and a lie, burden of proof is on you not your guys. This is not the agriculture or textile industry that has piece standards to gage pay this is a dynamic service industry. Oh and then their is workman's comp/insurance audits where they determine your insurance premiums that is based on hours worked. Not lawns mowed. But if your just looking for that extra buck in your pocket and not your laborers well then..........ingnore this........
well said.

woodbutcher44
01-29-2009, 11:16 AM
Beer and burgers are expensive

treegal1
01-29-2009, 10:38 PM
how about a responsible fair wage that some one can really live on!!! try and think about what to pay yourself????? then go from there......

or abandon your morals at the door and F--- some one over till they hurt... then stand them up and smack them down again.....

is this the lowballer forum I made my way into????

jijlandscape
02-08-2009, 10:34 AM
I have one guy working for me and the way Im paying him is by the day. A flat rate. The way I figure it out is I figure out how many accts Im averaging per day and come up with a fair price. I also look at how many hours im averaging for the days and look at the amount im paying from an hourly veiw. Example if were doing 20 acct a day and its taking us around 7-10 hour I would proble be paying 100.00 a day. hope this helps.

Stillwater
02-08-2009, 11:18 AM
I have one guy working for me and the way Im paying him is by the day. A flat rate. The way I figure it out is I figure out how many accts Im averaging per day and come up with a fair price. I also look at how many hours im averaging for the days and look at the amount im paying from an hourly veiw. Example if were doing 20 acct a day and its taking us around 7-10 hour I would proble be paying 100.00 a day. hope this helps.

how do you figure your workman comp do you still keep track of hours?

F3Nelso
02-08-2009, 11:26 AM
I don't want to get on a rant hear but... Hear we go with this subject again........... this is called piece work and is a very slippery slope in the landscape industry and illegal in some states due to the dynamics of this. industry.... example you pay them 20 dollars per lawn but one day the truck breaks and they only get 2 lawns done, the rest of their time was waiting for AAA. You can't just pay them the 40.00 for the 2 lawns because it would be a violation of the federal minimum wage standard. which in your state i believe is 7.25 per hour this year
structuring your business this way is like having a 55 gallon drum hell ready to tip over. Disgruntled employees can very easily Screw you with 1 phone call and a lie, burden of proof is on you not your guys. This is not the agriculture or textile industry that has piece standards to gage pay this is a dynamic service industry. Oh and then their is workman's comp/insurance audits where they determine your insurance premiums that is based on hours worked. not lawns mowed. But if your just looking for that extra buck in your pocket and not your laborers well then..........ingnore this........


Agreed


Yeah, once again, if any of you people find someone to work for a by the account basis, PLEASE call me if they have any family members.

Why dont you guys ask yourself if YOU would actually go to work for someone getting paid by the acct, might as well be your own boss at that point.

tmc8524
02-12-2009, 06:32 PM
There is a way to get around all the legal stuff and still be legal. I can't afford to pay workman's comp and all that so what i do is not actually "hire" a worker, but get their ss# and list them as contracted labor. At the end of the year list it on your taxes as contracted labor with their info, and how much you paid them. The gov. will then send them a form and they will have to pay a small tax. Here it's only like 1%, but tell them up front what is going on so they won't think the irs is after them, and be sure to tell them it is their responsibility to turn the info into the gov when the form comes. This way ur legal, they are too, and if they don't comply it is not your fault.

tmc8524
02-12-2009, 06:34 PM
Also, I work a day job and sometimes let a trusted worker mow for me during the day. In that case I pay them usually around 40%, but it's usually someone I know. If they are working with me then i pay hourly.

JB1
02-12-2009, 06:40 PM
There is a way to get around all the legal stuff and still be legal. I can't afford to pay workman's comp and all that so what i do is not actually "hire" a worker, but get their ss# and list them as contracted labor. At the end of the year list it on your taxes as contracted labor with their info, and how much you paid them. The gov. will then send them a form and they will have to pay a small tax. Here it's only like 1%, but tell them up front what is going on so they won't think the irs is after them, and be sure to tell them it is their responsibility to turn the info into the gov when the form comes. This way ur legal, they are too, and if they don't comply it is not your fault.




you have got to be kidding, one phone call and you will be paying a small tax.

tmc8524
02-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Hey i'm just saying for a small guy like me. I do about 40 accounts so there is no way i could afford to pay for employees. Sometimes u just got work with what you got.

Stillwater
02-12-2009, 07:16 PM
Your done, you probibly already owe so much back tax that you will need 2 full time jobs and 20 years to pay up. The IRS has developed a list of 20 items it uses to test employee or subcontractor status.

Does the business require the worker to follow their instructions on how work is to be performed? If yes, this indicates employee status. An independent contractor will generally decide how the project should be completed and use his own methodology.

Does the business provide training to the worker? If you're hiring a person for a job they are not trained for and providing them with the training to carry it out, that person is probably an employee. There can be exceptions based on the facts and circumstances, but if you fail this test, you might lose no matter how many of the others you pass.

Are the worker’s services a substantial or integral part of the business? This indicates employee status because it indicates the business maintains direction and control over the worker.

Does the business require the worker to perform all services personally? Independent contractors may have their own employees or at least should have the option of hiring other contractors to perform their work. Agreements for personal services indicate employee status.

Does the business hire, supervise and pay the worker’s assistants? If so, this is a strong indication of employee status. Let the independent contractor pay his or her own assistants.

Does the business have an ongoing relationship with the worker? This one is a stretch since many businesses maintain lifelong relationships with contractors whose work they like. But the IRS views this as an indication of employee status.

Does the business set the worker’s schedule and hours? Independent contractors generally set their own work schedules. If the contractor must work certain hours because of required interrelationships with your employees or to take advantage of down time for computer-related work, document these facts.

Does the business require the worker full-time? This is an indication of employee status because the business controls their availability and prevents them from working on other clients.

Does the business provide the workspace? Contractors who work off-site are more likely to be classified an independent contractor.

Does the business determine the order or sequence in which work is completed? Indicates employee status. If specific schedules are required, document them in the contract with the reasoning for doing so.

Does the business require oral or written reports? The IRS believes regular written or oral reports detailing the work completed indicates employee status. In reality, this is, and should be, expected from independent contractors as well.

Does the business pay by the hour, week or month? This indicates employee status. See our comments at the end of this article on this issue.

Does the business pay expenses? This is an indication that the business is directing the Independent contractor's business activities. Make sure the independent contractor pays the expenses and bills you for reimbursement.

Does the business provide tools and equipment for the worker? Independent contractors would normally provide their own tools and equipment.

Does the worker have a significant investment in their own facilities? If the contractor maintains his own office space, computer equipment, tools, etc., this is a good indication that they are an independent contractor.

Does the worker have profits and losses independent of the business? This is an indication that the contractor is running his own bona fide business and is an independent contractor.

Does the worker have multiple clients? Working with multiple clients generally indicates independent contractor status.

Does the worker market their services to the general public? Employees do not generally market their services to the general public.

Does the business have the right to discharge the worker at any time? This suggests employee status. An independent contractor would only be discharged for failure to meet contract specifications.

Does the worker have the right to quit at any time? An independent contractor is under contract and cannot quit until the project is completed.

Campbell Works LLC
02-12-2009, 08:35 PM
Form a LLC and make your laborers do the same. you wont have unemployement or work comp scams to pay for. just keep good books and 1099 at the end of the year. Try to find people with ther own health insurance. this way you can pay more without the beuaracratic BS.

JB1
02-13-2009, 08:26 AM
Form a LLC and make your laborers do the same. you wont have unemployement or work comp scams to pay for. just keep good books and 1099 at the end of the year. Try to find people with ther own health insurance. this way you can pay more without the beuaracratic BS.





some of you guys are really funny, with no clue.

treegal1
02-13-2009, 08:53 AM
isn't there a word for this , theft no that's not it.... oh I got it tax evasion!!!!!that's it tax evasion is the general term for efforts to not pay taxes by illegal means, from what the IRS tells me they are really down on that sort of thing.....

AFH Sod
02-13-2009, 09:27 AM
To get back to the original question, I would definitely pay by the hour. You'll be able to tell if the employee is fooling around by the amount of work they get done. If it is not getting done by your standards, find somebody else.

To figure out how much to pay, I would talk to other landscapers in your area and ask them how much they pay their employees. Another good idea is to ask on the application how much the applicant wants to get paid. Of course some of them will be high but it should provide a good estimate on the amount of compensation people expect for that type of work.

I, personally, wouldn't get into the habit of buying lunch. I don't think employees expect lunch to be provided. You might consider doing it every once in awhile to show your appreciation. I know we sometimes buy lunch if we know our employees are going to be working extra hard and long hours.

millenium_123
02-13-2009, 11:53 AM
To get back to the original question, I would definitely pay by the hour. You'll be able to tell if the employee is fooling around by the amount of work they get done. If it is not getting done by your standards, find somebody else.

To figure out how much to pay, I would talk to other landscapers in your area and ask them how much they pay their employees. Another good idea is to ask on the application how much the applicant wants to get paid. Of course some of them will be high but it should provide a good estimate on the amount of compensation people expect for that type of work.

I, personally, wouldn't get into the habit of buying lunch. I don't think employees expect lunch to be provided. You might consider doing it every once in awhile to show your appreciation. I know we sometimes buy lunch if we know our employees are going to be working extra hard and long hours.

Great advice. Thanks!

sdk1959
02-13-2009, 11:54 AM
You can use independent contractors for your accounts but they have to use thier own vehicle to drive and do the work. This is key, and very important .

It will take a little preparation to set up for a independant contractor.

First you have to have a really good accountant who not only knows the IRS tax code but also knows what red flags the IRS looks for to audit a return. They don't have to be a CPA, but should have a business of doing tax returns, not just occasionally on a case by case basis.

You will also need some type of agreement made up by a lawyer and signed EVERY season by the independent contractor stating they are a independent contractor and not an employee. This is important too, so they can't later claim they were an employee if they get hurt working and sue you for workmans comp.

You will have to talk to your insurance agent and adjust your liability insurance to include your independent contractor(s).

Your independent contractors will also have to pay their social security taxes every quarter,not yearly, also there is no employer contribution since they are independent so keep that in mind when you come up with the amount you want to pay them.

While you can get some good advice on these boards the opposite is true also.

Talk to a good accountant first before using any advice on this board.

The IRS is to be repected but not feared. The people who fear them pay a lot more in taxes then they should because they don't use deductions they are entitled to, those that don't respect the IRS pay fines and penalties for filing false returns.

Remember- proof is a two way street. The IRS has to have proof in a tax audit to prove thier case just like the taxpayer does.

Practice tax avoidance- not tax evasion and you will be fine.

Campbell Works LLC
02-13-2009, 10:37 PM
Its true the paper work is a nightmare and you have to have competent people in order to do this but it is legal. Get a good LLC formation book. It is by far the best company formation. There is nothing wrong with making people responsible for themselves and it gives them a valuable tool to use in the future and can push self motivators in right direction we know public schools dont do it.

Five points, On. Can
02-14-2009, 03:36 PM
I pay by the hour, I work with my worker or workers. I think to many people look at them as an exspense. To me they are an investment. Production increases. If you take what you gross in a day solo then take what you can gross in a day with a helper, minus the wages, comp ect. and any extra overhead exspenses you should be ahead. If you're not then somethings not right. You can get so much more done in a day and not be as tired. The key is having the volume of work to support it. Start with a part timer or maybe a college student for the summer. Rather than someone fulltime, who needs the check to support a family or something.

I think I read you have been in business for several years so you probably have a handle on your pricing, If you can't keep up with all the work that is when you know you need a helper. What to pay? AS much as you can justify or afford. Alot of guys complain they can't find good help. You get what you pay for. Also treat them as you would want to be treated. I like to refer to my helper as my co worker if I introduce myself to a customer. I also share all the good jobs and the bad jobs. I try to be fair.He's about to start his third season with me.

METRO FS
02-15-2009, 12:11 AM
Check this out -especially the last half. http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html . You can easily run into problems if you classify your help as an IC when they are really an employee. I would suggest setting up an account with a temp agency to take care of the help. Your help can hire through them to work for you. The agency will be responsible for withholding taxes and SS as well as providing the w/comp insurance. The help will get a weekly check and you avoid a lot of paperwork, advances and headaches. Of course you will pay a higher hourly rate than paying as an IC but the last thing you need is an audit or lawsuit.

"Take the high road...You'll spend more time moving forward and less time looking over your shoulder"!

CLARK LAWN
02-15-2009, 01:34 AM
i checked into using workers from a temp service and they all told me that the workers are not allowed to run any power equipment.

George Mason
02-18-2009, 02:28 AM
"it gives them a valuable tool to use in the future and can push self motivators in right direction we know public schools dont do it."

I'd be willing to bet that a good many of the members of lawnsite, the self-motivators that they are, didn't go to private schools.

starry night
02-18-2009, 10:49 AM
i checked into using workers from a temp service and they all told me that the workers are not allowed to run any power equipment.

I don't how many agencies you checked. Youngstown area ought to have lots of temp agencies. It is not a general rule of all agencies. Apparently, the ones you called just don't want to pay for insurance that would cover using equipment. That could be true of workers comp, too, because there are different classifications for different jobs.

LouisianaLawnboy
02-19-2009, 01:15 AM
I'm a small operation, but I have friend who helps me. I pay him by how much gets done, but in the end it averages about 10-15 dollars an hour. This summer when I expect to go full time, I will probably start paying him by the hour.

George Mason I go to a private school and am graduating this year with honors!!!

Stillwater
02-19-2009, 01:24 AM
I'm a small operation, but I have friend who helps me. I pay him by how much gets done, but in the end it averages about 10-15 dollars an hour. This summer when I expect to go full time, I will probably start paying him by the hour.

George Mason I go to a private school and am graduating this year with honors!!!

Yes I do suggest by the hour!,,,

I watched a episode of this old house and they were doing some landscaping in your area they said it is hard to get labor is it still that bad their?

LouisianaLawnboy
02-19-2009, 01:33 AM
It's not too bad here as far the economy goes. I believe our unemployment is 3%. I did just have someone call me out the blue and ask for a job, and then some guy at the gas station asked for a job.

My friend is pretty good, so for right now I'll keep him and hopefully get enough work to use hiim full time.

So to answer your question I don't think it's hard to get workers.

George Mason
02-19-2009, 02:24 AM
I am getting my first helper on this season and we are going to talk money this week. I know the guy, a great worker. I am planning to hear what he wants and then offer $14 or $15, I suspect by his tone in our prior conversations he'll ask for a little less but I'd rather keep him happy and pay the guy some money too because he isn't going to come out and get with it for $8, the man has two kids and works with a painting crew too. It will just be part time, and I know he'll get the job done so my plan is to use good $ as incentive.

Awesome job graduating with honors. I work in public education and just took a little exception with what the guy said. I try to avoid comments like that, but I work too hard to be blamed for societies ills. I blame parents more than I blame the schools, if the world only knew what excuses these people have/make for their kids we'd see things a little differently, and what can I do about it, I have to have them passing these mandated tests regardless but I can't sit them down and tell them like it is.:mad:

PROCUT1
02-19-2009, 03:13 AM
Ok

Anybody that has a thought about doing the 1099 independent contractor thing......One word ......DONT.

This was a common way for contractors to get away with not paying taxes years ago. Years ago there were gray areas and nobody got bothered.

Nowadays the law is very clear.

If the guy you have working for you has all of the qualifications and meets the requirements to be classified as an independent contractor, then he sure as heck wont be cutting grass for you.

If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it.

IRS is the least of your problems in the 1099 game.

Wait until your workers comp or liability insurance carrier audits you and goes back 3 years. Get ready to pay.

The 1099 independent contractor game is not a road you want to go down.\

Your buddies in the business who have that "great accountant" they swear by are going to be in for a real surprise.

If you are going to hire employees, youre in the bigtime now boys. This is business. Play by the rules.

As far as piecework goes....You can pay that way perfectly legal...

Their employee status doesnt change.

You do however still have to keep track of their hours and see that their piecework pay is comparable to minimum hourly wage laws and overtime laws.

Lets say minimum wage is 10 per hour to use round numbers.
Overtime rate is 15 per hour.
Im going to use the "over 8" instead of "over 40" calculation to make the numbers simple.

You want to pay the guys 10 per lawn.

today they work 10 hours and finish 20 lawns.

his pay would be $200

If hourly his minimum by law would be

10x8hrs 80
15x2hrs 30

By law he would have to make 110. he made 200. Youre good.

Tomorrow the truck breaks down and he only gets 5 lawns done and works the same 10 hours stuck with the truck.

You pay him 50 for the 5 lawns.

He is legally entitled to the 110.

You have to pay him the 110 to be legal. paying him the 50 would be against the wage and hour law.

To keep things simple you are much better paying an hourly rate with a production bonus.

Pay them a lower hourly rate, with an incentive bonus.

This goes both ways though. Dont only use this for your benefit.

You want them to work hard. Set it up so that they have the ability to make more money by working harder than they would if they were strictly hourly.

There is no incentive for them to bust hump if the most they could make is the same pay that they would get from someone just strictly paying hourly regardless of performance.

Make it so they have incentive to get more work done for you and at the same time they make out better than they would hourly for the competition.

Stillwater
02-19-2009, 04:53 AM
I said this in post#3

topsites
02-19-2009, 02:22 PM
Forget all 4 pages of this, what you do is once and for all grow some hairy sweaty twos and raise your rates until you no longer
have this problem of more work than you can handle and you probably don't gotta do it but ONE dang time 5 lousy bucks
and a good half of those so-called customers are gone and I GUARANTEE someone don't have this problem no more LOL.

Because I don't know how much some think they pay themselves or how long they intend on staying in business,
but the mere hint of a thought of paying an employee anywhere near what I get paid would be in violation of minimum
wage law one but then I ain't in the mood to hear squat from the lying sniveling bunch either lol

Now I am about tired of hearing it, folks ACT like this is some kind of miracle secret concoction to it all,
they ACT like we get paid 100,000's an hour hell just TRY and charge someone 5 bucks more and see what happens,
then they ACT like we can pay employees some ridiculous amount somewhere between 15-20 an hour and then just to
ice up the cake they all expect me to believe that load of horse garbage?!

How the HELL, when it takes 30-45 minutes to mow a 1/4 acre from START to FINISH that we MIGHT get 30 lousy dollars for,
and that still doesn't include the time spent doing maintenance and deposits and scheduling and estimating and answering the
dang phone, y'all know damn well just as sure as I do that in the net we might gross 25-30 an hour so how in the HELL can anyone
DREAM about paying anyone the kind of rates that's being talked about?!

L.O.L. and W.H.A.T.E.V.E.R.!

Now I'm not entirely against edumacating these stuck up spoiled brats who would want to call themselves employees,
but you see by the time the sorry punks are 5 minutes late on the first day they are fired because I ain't waiting for their sorry
ass neither, nor am I getting into the thousand+ long list of real good reasons why I am NOT going through the hiring process
again, not now, not ever, they can stand themselves up in that unemployment line until the day they FEEL like WORKING!

And it ain't nothing personal against anybody, I just had to let it out, thanks for listening.

Pennings Gardens
02-19-2009, 09:53 PM
I'm also looking to hire a few more new guy this spring and set up a complete crew, what do you guys think of $10.- and hour plus 5% commission for a foreman? a slow day mowing with 3 guys is is what $500.-? this would be $80,- in salary and $25,- commission - $13.15 per hour. this would be 2 days a week. do patio or pond work and a bad day would be a $2000.- invoice, this would be $80 in salary and $100.- in commission - which is $22.50 per hour. They labor guy would just be pay by the hour. Would this be a good idea or not? I want to make sure the guys that work for us are happy and motivated, I'm not able to be on the job side everyday since we have the retail center to worry about also...

NC Greenscaper
02-20-2009, 08:53 AM
Forget all 4 pages of this, what you do is once and for all grow some hairy sweaty twos and raise your rates until you no longer
have this problem of more work than you can handle and you probably don't gotta do it but ONE dang time 5 lousy bucks
and a good half of those so-called customers are gone and I GUARANTEE someone don't have this problem no more LOL.

Because I don't know how much some think they pay themselves or how long they intend on staying in business,
but the mere hint of a thought of paying an employee anywhere near what I get paid would be in violation of minimum
wage law one but then I ain't in the mood to hear squat from the lying sniveling bunch either lol

Now I am about tired of hearing it, folks ACT like this is some kind of miracle secret concoction to it all,
they ACT like we get paid 100,000's an hour hell just TRY and charge someone 5 bucks more and see what happens,
then they ACT like we can pay employees some ridiculous amount somewhere between 15-20 an hour and then just to
ice up the cake they all expect me to believe that load of horse garbage?!

How the HELL, when it takes 30-45 minutes to mow a 1/4 acre from START to FINISH that we MIGHT get 30 lousy dollars for,
and that still doesn't include the time spent doing maintenance and deposits and scheduling and estimating and answering the
dang phone, y'all know damn well just as sure as I do that in the net we might gross 25-30 an hour so how in the HELL can anyone
DREAM about paying anyone the kind of rates that's being talked about?!

L.O.L. and W.H.A.T.E.V.E.R.!

Now I'm not entirely against edumacating these stuck up spoiled brats who would want to call themselves employees,
but you see by the time the sorry punks are 5 minutes late on the first day they are fired because I ain't waiting for their sorry
ass neither, nor am I getting into the thousand+ long list of real good reasons why I am NOT going through the hiring process
again, not now, not ever, they can stand themselves up in that unemployment line until the day they FEEL like WORKING!

And it ain't nothing personal against anybody, I just had to let it out, thanks for listening.


That's funny :):):):)

PROCUT1
02-20-2009, 12:42 PM
"hairy sweaty twos" I love it....hahaha

Topsites..

Next time I come to VA, Ill buy ya lunch.

I can only imagine how you must be in person.

Lawn-Guy
02-24-2009, 01:26 AM
well with what to pay some one is going to depend on there skill and knowledge level.
i have been paid by the job by the hour and by salary for me anyways i prefered by the job that way i co ntrolled what i made not anyone else however with that said i also took responsibility for my own insurance taxs etc. as far as amounts to pay figure what i cost to live rent food insurance lights etc etc i was averging between 17-25 a hour when i was getting paid by job but i didnt eat lunch and didnt slack off and the owner of the company knew that and rewarded me nicely with bonus money every quarter anywere from 500-1000 dollars as a gift tax free

starry night
02-24-2009, 10:37 AM
well with what to pay some one is going to depend on there skill and knowledge level.
i have been paid by the job by the hour and by salary for me anyways i prefered by the job that way i co ntrolled what i made not anyone else however with that said i also took responsibility for my own insurance taxs etc. as far as amounts to pay figure what i cost to live rent food insurance lights etc etc i was averging between 17-25 a hour when i was getting paid by job but i didnt eat lunch and didnt slack off and the owner of the company knew that and rewarded me nicely with bonus money every quarter anywere from 500-1000 dollars as a gift tax free

I feel the urge to comment on this post but I'm not sure where to start. (All the run-on sentences make it hard to understand.) It sounds as if your employer was paying you "under the table." That is, he wasn't withholding taxes??
And are you saying you cleared $17-25 an hour AFTER you paid your rent and food?? Then the matter of the "tax-free" bonus: it's not legal for an employer to pay tax-free bonuses or cash gifts to employees without also taking out withholding.
I'm doubting the validity of the information in your post. Please try to clarify if you want to.

Lawn-Guy
02-24-2009, 12:09 PM
I feel the urge to comment on this post but I'm not sure where to start. (All the run-on sentences make it hard to understand.) It sounds as if your employer was paying you "under the table." That is, he wasn't withholding taxes??
And are you saying you cleared $17-25 an hour AFTER you paid your rent and food?? Then the matter of the "tax-free" bonus: it's not legal for an employer to pay tax-free bonuses or cash gifts to employees without also taking out withholding.
I'm doubting the validity of the information in your post. Please try to clarify if you want to.

sorry for the run on sentences is was rather late. what i was saying was he payed me as i was a contractor, my pay averaged 17-25.00 for the hours i worked (example if i worked 40 hours i got paid between 680.00-1000.00 a week) granted i was at this time doing no lawns but yet mainly doing renovations,ponds and retainer walls. out of this money i would pay my self put fuel in my own truck and pay a helper if i opted for one. i hope this clers it up a little for you. as fare as the bonus money goes it was a gift from him to me not his company to me. and yes i did my own taxes(1099)

straightlineland
02-27-2009, 10:57 PM
I would stay away from the whole paying by the job...unless you want to create a new competitor for yourself. In order to pay them by the job, they get to know what you are charging. Before you know, they will think they can go into business for themselves and under cut you. Not thinking of all the overhead etc. We all see it every day with new mow and blow guys who have a truck and mower and call themselves landscapers. We don't need anymore of these guys.

I pay my foreman a salary. they stay on all year. We work more in the 5-6 days in the summer and 4 days in the winter. They get paid the same every week. This can be slippery though. They have to be considered managers. I give my guys the authority to write up their crew members, fire, hire, and we do have meetings in which they discuss input. They get bonus', paid vacation, and health insurance too.

My laborers are paid hourly. This works out because my foreman get paid whether they work 4 hrs or 10 hrs the same, so they want to be efficient and get done, the hourly guys want the hours. You must hold your foreman accountable for their properties though, if they are trying to blow threw them to get done early. My guys are really very good and have been with me for 6 - 10 years.

Lawn-Guy
02-27-2009, 11:10 PM
^ you sir sound like a smart man and a good boss

straightlineland
02-28-2009, 05:15 PM
i checked into using workers from a temp service and they all told me that the workers are not allowed to run any power equipment.

then shop around to different temp agencies. we have some that only offer office help and others that have manual labor (i.e. forklift drivers, welders, etc.)

straightlineland
02-28-2009, 05:29 PM
I'm also looking to hire a few more new guy this spring and set up a complete crew, what do you guys think of $10.- and hour plus 5% commission for a foreman? a slow day mowing with 3 guys is is what $500.-? this would be $80,- in salary and $25,- commission - $13.15 per hour. this would be 2 days a week. do patio or pond work and a bad day would be a $2000.- invoice, this would be $80 in salary and $100.- in commission - which is $22.50 per hour. They labor guy would just be pay by the hour. Would this be a good idea or not? I want to make sure the guys that work for us are happy and motivated, I'm not able to be on the job side everyday since we have the retail center to worry about also...

The problem u always get into when u have a crew member, foreman or laborer, is when they know the price...Before you know it they think they can do it cheaper and u just created another competitor for yourself that will undercut you. After all, he will probably end up being like a couple of the guys on here that don't pay taxes, don't pay fair wages, etc.

My general philosophy, crew guys DO NOT ever know pricing. That is reserved for office/estimators/you. You get into commisions with crews, to be fair, u need to tell them your pricing. You are better sticking with a bonus system, production bonus etc. Just my humble opinion

M&N Maintenance
03-01-2009, 05:08 PM
Good post straightline. I was wondering what your average foreman makes. Also what do your foremen do during the winter for four days a week? Alot of guys in our area send there guys to unemployment. During the off season.
Thanks.

RegalLawnCare.Com
03-05-2009, 09:00 AM
Wow, this thread went pretty far away from the actual question posed. If I have a laborer working for me I usually pay them more than normal laborers. As a rule of thumb, I pay in the ballpark of $15 for foremen, $10 p/hour for laborers. When it's a laborer working with me, pay is usually $12.50 an your ($100 a day), and I make sure that they are somebody I like working with! I agree with one of the prior posters that there shouldn't be a need to pay per/job if they are working with you directly.

straightlineland
03-05-2009, 03:00 PM
Good post straightline. I was wondering what your average foreman makes. Also what do your foremen do during the winter for four days a week? Alot of guys in our area send there guys to unemployment. During the off season.
Thanks.

Our foremand plow snow in the winter. They are also responsible for there equipment. Our foreman strip down all their equipment. Check every pully, belt, weld, bearing, tire, etc. Replace any worn parts so that we limit our down time during the season. And we repaint all the machines. My 5 year old mowers look better than most guys mowers after 6 months of use. We go through every trailer and do the same, repaint the insides, fix hooks, shelves, flooring, change bearings, replace tires. Make any improvements that we think will help during the summer for efficiency.
Our dump bodies are sanded down and repainted. The short of it is they have about 25 pages of things that must get done and ready for the season. It keeps 6 guys busy during the winter.

Just a side note, this is one of the things that makes us professionals vs. the week end warriors!