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clallen03
02-03-2009, 07:38 PM
I have a serious question for you'll.

I will be starting my Round 1 on the 15th. I took a ride around to the lawns today and noticed that several of my lawns have some fescue clumps in them, there mostly bermuda lawns. Now I know there is some products that I can use to get rid of it (Revolver, Corsair), but both of these product take such a long time to kill; I know because I used them last season.

Im sure Round-Up (Razor Pro is what I using) will give me a faster kill but Im afraid of the effects it will have on the bermuda. Now I have read time and time again that it wont effect the bermuda as long as it is dormant, but Im still a little skeptical. I would hate to have everything going well then in April we end up with spots in the lawn were we spot sprayed. :cry:

Has anyone done this with good results? Is there any other suggestions to help with this situation?

Thanks in advance!:drinkup:

tbettis
02-03-2009, 08:25 PM
as long as its dormant it will be okay.

IRRITECH
02-03-2009, 08:43 PM
I do it occasionally. We have had some SERIOUSLY cold weather and the grass should be good and dormant. That being said don't be suprised with brown spots this spring. they will green up and fill in quick though. Corsiar and Revolver are good products but they really need the warm weather to work.

clallen03
02-03-2009, 09:19 PM
How bad will the brown spots be? Will it blend in with the other turf coming out of dormancy or will it be really noticable?

Thanks for your input.

Joshuakwhit
02-03-2009, 11:32 PM
The brown spots will appear becuase you killed off the fescue that was growing there. We did one back in december, it looks great!

IRRITECH
02-08-2009, 06:22 PM
The brown spots will be noticeable because it is damamged bermuda. The chance that your bermuda is 100% dormant in every spot you spray are slim to none. That being said the spots will grow in an disappear very quickly.

greendoctor
02-08-2009, 06:57 PM
2 or 3 monthly applications of Image along with 1 application of simazine after full greenup does a lot to suppress and eventually remove many grassy weeds from bermuda. No, it does not work fast, but it also does not make holes in the lawn, especially if the lawn is well fertilized and mowed at the correct height.

IRRITECH
02-08-2009, 08:57 PM
2 or 3 monthly applications of Image along with 1 application of simazine after full greenup does a lot to suppress and eventually remove many grassy weeds from bermuda. No, it does not work fast, but it also does not make holes in the lawn, especially if the lawn is well fertilized and mowed at the correct height.

You are right, however, fescue in Bermuda is an issue for us. Not something we can really afford to wait on with most accounts. Bermuda is brown and dormant at this point in the year and fescue is nice green clumps.

greendoctor
02-08-2009, 09:10 PM
The residual effect of Image and simazine should help to discourage growth of new fescue. You probably have a seed bank in the soil perpetuating the problem. Sencor also works and can be used in dormant bermuda. This one is a lot faster than the simazine and Image.

IRRITECH
02-08-2009, 09:51 PM
The residual effect of Image and simazine should help to discourage growth of new fescue. You probably have a seed bank in the soil perpetuating the problem. Sencor also works and can be used in dormant bermuda. This one is a lot faster than the simazine and Image.

Problem is we aerate/overseed the fescue in early to mid September. There is seed everywhere. Alot of our lawns are half bermuda and half Fescue, so not getting seed in the bermuda is impossible. Usually the spring pre-emerge will stop germination but not always.

I wonder if an August app of simazine would help. Simazine is cheap.

greendoctor
02-08-2009, 10:12 PM
In common bermuda, not a greens height hybrid, 2 lb simazine is a possibility. That application will last for several months as well. It has a substantial residual effect in cooler soil. In the tropics, I do not get more than 2-3 months of activity out of a 2 lb application, but it is long enough to kill things.

greendoctor
02-08-2009, 10:16 PM
One more thing, the preemergent that you use is probably harder on the bermuda than the fescue if it is a DNA herbicide or Dimension. That is why I only use those for soft bare ground applications or for ornamentals, never in warm season turf.

DGM
02-09-2009, 01:09 PM
You'll be just fine, done it many times no problems just do it before spring green up.

hmartin
02-10-2009, 09:39 PM
Go ahead with the roundup. I sprayed alot just last week. It only takes a weak mixuture (about 1%) to kill the fescue, so don't get carried away drenching everthing down with strong mix.

NC State did some studies where they sprayed a pint per acre of roundup on 25% greened up bermuda in March, and it only delayed greenup about 10 days.

okcfire
02-13-2009, 10:02 AM
I am a little more scared to spot spray with Round Up. I dont know where you live but here in Oklahoma I have seen green grass next to the warm southern brick walls. That is always when I quit using Round Up. I have never had a problem with blanket apps because you wont get to the roots but if you spot spray be careful. I have a problem with getting to the roots and that caused bad dead spots until June.

Atlantic Lawn
02-14-2009, 01:44 PM
Be sure to get a closer look at your turf, I've seen brown on top but when you look through the canopy you'll find green under it. If you do see some green don't spray round-up, you'll have a disturbing surprise a few weeks from now.

clallen03
02-14-2009, 04:13 PM
Thanks guys for your replies. I really didn't want to go the round up route so i had a sit down with the client and explained the situation. He was ok with the process and now has a better understanding of my program. It just gave me a chance to educate the client and he seemed to understand.

The reason I didn't want to go with round up because I have noticed some green up around the foundation of some homes. Really don't want that headache.

greendoctor
02-14-2009, 04:58 PM
You have now graduated from being a hole burner to a professional turf manager. No matter how bad a lawn is when I get it, the client understands RoundUp in a hand can is not part of my program. If that is what they wanted, I can point them to some guys in a rusted out truck, no DOA license, and they also cannot read or speak English either. If fescue is a problem in the lawn, you did catch the part about Image in the summer and simazine in the fall. That set of herbicides also cuts down on lots of other weeds as well. You might not need to chase after many winter broadleaves either.

hmartin
02-16-2009, 09:58 PM
Greendoctor,

Your advise of simazine and image sound good, but don't equate roundup in a hand can with an illegal or dumb operator. Not everyone lives in a climate where the grass grows 12 months out of the year like where you live. Lots of LCOs and golf courses wisely and carefully use glyphosate to the turf's benefit.

Green looks real bad in a dormant bermuda lawn and simazine alone will barely phase big clumps of fescue in the late winter/early spring. The simazine/image combo may work much better, so thanks for the advice.

Also, Reward will burn down fescue in about a day.

greendoctor
02-17-2009, 12:52 AM
If glyphosate can be used without making holes, that is fine. I see that the bermuda must be as dormant as possible or the glyphosate will damage it. I use concentrated glyphosate through a wick or brush on grasses that do not have a selective control. Might have to do a lot more of that once MSMA is gone. By necessity, I take a much more proactive approach to weed control. As for the timing of the simazine/Image. I know simazine is very active in warm weather, especially if it is accompanied by adequate water. Question, in a bermuda lawn, are the fescue clumps alive during the summer growing season? Or does it germinate from seed during the cool season? If it is alive in late spring/early summer, that is actually the best time to apply an Image/MSMA/simazine tank mix. This works on a lot more than just fescue. Broadleaves, sedges and grassy weeds are controlled as well. My reasoning for this is to try and kill it before winter.