price for good help?

[dogger]

I am intrested in hiring a few more guys this summer. They also both have a couple of years of experience cutting. They will drive to my shop, pick up the equipment and go to that days assigned work. They will be part time (half days) as they both have a steady job. What would you pay them? By the hour or a salary? Also, because they have a full time job i am considering paying in cash and 1099ing them after the season. Does anyone else take this approach?

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Can't do it.

Must use W4 or they don't officialy work for you, and they use "your" equipment, you can't 1099 them.

Yes there are loop holes, but you will end up in jail using them.

[Guardian]

You could open yourself up to alot liability. Also, once you go over 3 employees. you have to have workmans comp.

You can only 1099 somebody who uses their own equip, like LGF said. I sub work to another LCO and 1099 them.

I have to pay $7/hr and give an incentive after 30 days in order to keep decent people. I have a fulltime opening for a foreman and it looks like I'm going to have to pay about $400/wk to that guy.

[richard coffman]

well,:rolleyes:

I've been around the block a few time with this. Personally, I'll call there past employers who they cut lawns with, check drivers license for violations, and a back ground check. I'm not the paranoid type, actually pretty easy going, but letting a few guys take your equipment out and work for ya is like metting your little girs date for the high school prom for the very first time. I'f these guys who live in your neiborhood and you know them, then i can see that you would feel more comfortable.

As far as the 1099 goes, go with what LGF says, sounds like he's knows what he's talking about.

good luck,

Richard Coffman/owner
Special Needs Lawn Services

[scott's turf]

Gaurdian, up here in NH we have to have workman's comp for just 1 employee. There is a big fine too if we get caught without it. I am looking for a guy to to mow this summer as well. He will be by himself all day and report to me in the evenings. I will be paying $14-$16/hr to find dependable, quality help that will hopefully reduce my headaches. I had a guy for a long time that was great but he went to med school. Last year was a nightmare. I had to let the guy go and had to squeeze in the work when I could with some part time help. Maybe with the economy weaker it will be easier to find good help.

[dldonnelly]

I'd say by salary , especially if your not going to be with them.
My accountants are scattered all over town and some times it takes as much as twenty minutes to get to the next lawn. So it works better for me to pay a salary.
Dwayne

[bruces]

Lawngodfather is right on the money.

Yes, you can pay them cash & give them a 1099.

Is it right, no. At the end of the year when you give them a 1099 for 5,000 and they have to pay self employment tax and income tax, are they going to be upset? You bet. If you fire them and they go to the unemployment office, guess what, the state will think they are an emloyee. You furnish the equipment, tell them where to go, when, what to do, there is no way they are not an employee.

In the long run you will probably have problems by not doing it right, either from the IRS or state or the employees, or both.

[Runner]

Here in Michigan, we have to have worman's comp on each and every employee as well. Starting with the first. (Of course, we can't carry workman's comp on ourselves unless we're inc.'d. As far as the salary deal, especially for part time,- BAD idea. This is where accidents happen, and people get hurt - from racing from one jobsite to another to save their "own" time. There is also a quality control issue there for when they ARE on the job. If you want to know a fair price, for experience, reliability, and maturity, 9'ish is good. Good luck with it!

[PAPS]

In order to 1099 them, they will have to be recognized has each having a business.I.e, they are you "sub contractors". NOOOO they do not have to have there own equip. 1099 means that like the guys have said up top, they will have to have some money saved up to pay back in tax's at the end of the year..... Why not pay them on the books period??? Guys who work for me are all on the books NO questions asked. Also, as for work comp, YOU WILL NOT NEED IT. Being that they are 1099 it is THEIR responsibility to have THEIR own business insurance. What would I pay... being they are part time, probably like 10-12/hr. being full time maybe like 12-15 or so.

[Guardian]

Dwayne & Scott:

What kind of accounts are you sending a guy to solo? What kind of equip. set-up do they use?

I am trying to decide what is appropriate to assign to one guy. We have always used 2 man crews on every job, so they are used to sharing the load.

Is this the first time you're trying this or have you been doing it?

[proline32]

You can't pay these guys a salary.... Most states require that employees are paid on an hourly basis with all the scheduled breaks and whatever.... alot of times salaried employee are someone in a manegment position..... here in washington state you can be fined if you can't show that employees got thier 15 minute and half hour breaks, for minors it's much worse, my wife company was fined thousands of dollars because the state came in because someone complained and investigated.

Put these guys on an hourly basis, but allot them a certain amount of time per job.. If they are using your gear and basicly working for you then you are responcible for thier taxes and everything... Also if these guys are to use your equipment, have them sign a form that they are responcible if they damage equipment and that if they do break anything, it will come out of thier check to cover the cost of repair. This year I have decided to cut back my crews from three to one and supervise this crew myself, sell the other trucks and tools off and pocket the cash.
Next year, Im gonna work by myself..... I'm tired of being a baby sitter and I can pocket a higher profit by not having to deal with employees.

[landscaper3]

We have all our full timers on salary for they dont put many hours in during winter, only when plowing, sanding or roof clearing so we put them on a weekly salary with vacation and sick time! All are on Worker comp state law. I prefer salary for we make out very well and so does our employees. Most landscapers with 3 or more full timers in our area are doing the same. Winter season can be VERY!!! profitable or make by depending on the amount of snowfall but most of our contracts are commercial so the company gets paid if we mow or not or plow or not! And having them on a salary makes out for us too.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

To clearify anyone that is not sure about labor laws, the best peolpe to ask are your states labor department.

Whether it's for salery position or not.

But also state that they are performing seasonal work.

These laws very from state to state.

[JimLewis]

In order to 1099 them, they will have to be recognized has each having a business.I.e, they are you "sub contractors". NOOOO they do not have to have there own equip.......Also, as for work comp, YOU WILL NOT NEED IT. Being that they are 1099 it is THEIR responsibility to have

NO! NO! NO! This is not correct and is REALLY BAD ADVICE! In order to be recognized as independent contractors they will need to fulfill at least 18 of the following 20 requirements;
http://www.hasys.com/systems/20_factors.pdf

That's not some document someone just made up. It's straight from the I.R. S. And federal rules like this DO NOT vary from state to state.

If they use your equipment, there's one factor already broken. And THERE'S NO WAY IN HECK, IN THIS BUSINESS YOU'RE GONNA FULFILL 18 of the remaining factors!!!

I can guarantee you you'd be found guilty of breaking rules 1,2,3,6,8,9,12,14,15,16,17,18 and 19. And very likely 7, 10, and 13 as well.

Once the IRS, State Revenue Department, Unemployment Office, etc. do an audit on you and finds out what you've been doing, you will be forced to pay for all past employment taxes, all past worker's comp., etc.... And when you can't cough up that dough they will SHUT YOU DOWN!

Don't be stupid. Hire employees, get workers' comp. Do it the right way. Don't short cut the short cut, man! If you can't afford to do it the right way then dammit, DON'T DO IT!!!

Furthermore, you're double stupid to pay people under the table or as sub-contractors instead of making them employees. Payroll, insurance, employment taxes, etc. are all tax deductions. If you pay under the table then YOU'LL BE PAYING TAXES ON MONEY YOU NEVER EVEN KEPT!!!

'Nuff said.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by jimlewis
And federal rules like this DO NOT vary from state to state.


Who said the sub laws very from state to state?

[JimLewis]

You mentioned that labor laws vary from state to state. And some do vary from state to state. But many of them do not because they are federally mandated.

I was speaking more to the issue of using 1099s and sub-contractors, which I thought was the most critical element of this thread. Labor laws like these are federal issues. Point being; it doesn't matter which state you're in, you aint gonna pull off a scam like this anywhere.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

I guess I should have said some of the laws very from state to state.

But I did say to call and verify it.:D A phone call costs less than the IRS after you.

[scott's turf]

Gaurdian, I have a full time mechanical engineering job and run my lco as well. For the last two years I have hired one man to do all the lawn mowing jobs. I will work with him on the weekend with the landscaping stuff. Very small operation though, only about $50k receits annually. It is hard to find the good help but if you can and have a second job it gives you a lot more free time. I worked about 300 hrs last year and my two other employees worked the rest. Of course I probably put in at least that much doing paper work too. If I was full time I would not due this. I think working with a couple helpers would be more profittable and less headaches. This works for me because it is just extra cash for me. I only bring in around $20k after expenses, before taxes. I enjoy having the business though. Wish I could say that about my ME job.

[AL Inc]

Dogger- I'm sure these guys made their point with you. Don' t F with the Workman's comp. I know guys that have lost their businesses because they were operating without it. It's not cheap, and as your payroll increases, so do your payments. In NY, it is $8.80 per $100 of salary. Even if you exclude yourself and show only 2 part-time workers, there is a minimum of $16 or $17 thousand of salary. It's your best bet to have it and make sure your clients know you have it, and pass the cost along to them. I know from experience that crazy things happen when you have employees. Hope this helps you. Mike