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Texas_Native
02-05-2009, 11:40 AM
Does Trugreen really get sloppy with spraying post herbicide that would cause damage to the trees? That's what I've observed in December when my neighbor hired trugreen to spray for weeds. One neighbor has same tree as I do. His tree (has low branches) simply turned brown and dropped most of the leaves while mine is turning color this late (semi-evergreen tree that turns color in the winter). I scratched the bark of his tree and it's still green but I have to wonder how it'd fare this year.

LawnTamer
02-05-2009, 12:05 PM
It is possible, your neighbor's tree sounds more like the cases of drift that I have seen. localized damage, usually on the bottom leaves. There are two ways that a herbicide can damage a plant, first, through foliar contact, second through the roots, if they were using certain herbicides, like say something high in Dicamba, and that washed down into the rootzone of your tree, yes, it could damage the tree. Leaves would look wilted and would curl on most types of trees. What kind of tree is it?

greendoctor
02-05-2009, 12:24 PM
If it were high in dicamba, the new shoots at the top would curl quite a bit. I have seen trees damaged by broadleaf herbicides start out by showing killed leaves where the spray drifted, then the new shoots at the top being affected in time.

Texas_Native
02-05-2009, 01:06 PM
It is possible, your neighbor's tree sounds more like the cases of drift that I have seen. localized damage, usually on the bottom leaves. There are two ways that a herbicide can damage a plant, first, through foliar contact, second through the roots, if they were using certain herbicides, like say something high in Dicamba, and that washed down into the rootzone of your tree, yes, it could damage the tree. Leaves would look wilted and would curl on most types of trees. What kind of tree is it?

They are Taxodium mucronatum, an evergreen sister of Taxodium distichum aka Bald Cypress. It looked like something was sprayed on the foliage at the bottom branches but pretty much the whole trees lost needles. Would Trugreen really use diacamba around trees?

greendoctor
02-05-2009, 01:29 PM
That is not a remote possibility. Let's see, the operator filled up a 500-1000 gallon truck at headquarters and is trying to make his quota for the day. The last thing on his mind is his load has dicamba in it. Around conifers, the safest broadleaf herbicides are 2,4-D and/or triclopyr. Another thing, is dicamba is very rate and soil texture sensitive. There is a very fine line between a dose a tree will tolerate if it is growing in sandy, loose soil and one that will drop it dead. If someone is unsure or cannot apply a calibrated amount to an area, dicamba is something I would skip. All it takes is the applicator applying a little more spray than what he thinks he is. That is very easy to do with a Chemlawn gun.

Texas_Native
02-05-2009, 01:39 PM
That is not a remote possibility. Let's see, the operator filled up a 500-1000 gallon truck at headquarters and is trying to make his quota for the day. The last thing on his mind is his load has dicamba in it. Around conifers, the safest broadleaf herbicides are 2,4-D and/or triclopyr. Another thing, is dicamba is very rate and soil texture sensitive. There is a very fine line between a dose a tree will tolerate if it is growing in sandy, loose soil and one that will drop it dead. If someone is unsure or cannot apply a calibrated amount to an area, dicamba is something I would skip. All it takes is the applicator applying a little more spray than what he thinks he is. That is very easy to do with a Chemlawn gun.

2,4-d? that's not good if the wind goes in my direction of the lawn during growing season because I've read that my other trees (shantung maples) are sensitive to 2,4-d spray drift. It gets very windy here sometimes and I've seen them spray during very windy condition (fortunately, not in my direction so far). I suppose I'll have to take pictures of Trugreen guy spraying during very windy days and sue them if they caused extensive damages to my plants. I think st augustine lawn is susceptible to 2,4-d as well. I just remember looking at feed n weed label saying not to be used on st augustine lawn and around trees with dicambia, 2,4-d and others I don't recall. I'm not familiar with triclopyr so I'm gonna do some reading. Frankly, Trugreen scares me. They are everywhere in my neighborhood.

greendoctor
02-05-2009, 01:45 PM
2,4-D amine is a formulation that is very safe around sensitive plants and trees. I never asked what kind of grass your neighbor has. That also provides clues to what happened. Some of the herbicides that are selective on warm season grasses can be nasty to anything broadleaved.

Texas_Native
02-05-2009, 01:52 PM
2,4-D amine is a formulation that is very safe around sensitive plants and trees. I never asked what kind of grass your neighbor has. That also provides clues to what happened. Some of the herbicides that are selective on warm season grasses can be nasty to anything broadleaved.

Oh their lawn is bermuda lawn. I'd see Trugreen truck pull up to the neighbor's across from me what seems to be every month past year. HOA just hired Trugreen to treat the park for weeds,pests,fertilizing (what about kids' health?) -I live on a corner lot and that is a bigger problem since I get constant south winds from the park to my yard. We'll see how that turns out this year. One for sure, if they spray during heavy wind and gets on me while I'm working on my yard, I'm going to give that guy ass whopping like you'd see Hank Hill running around kicking another guy's ass.

greendoctor
02-05-2009, 02:02 PM
Oh God. What can be applied to bermuda will kill everything else but the bermuda. There is something to be said for not going for the cheap or high volume lawn care companies. Someone who does not have to do $100,000 or whatever that ridiculous quota is per week might not be as likely to spray something not suited for the individual situation or spray in high winds. Spraying when it is windy is something reportable to the TDA pesticides division. I know it is reportable here in Hawaii. Not only would I lose my license, but I would also be personally responsible for any damage caused by spray drift.

tamadrummer
02-05-2009, 02:10 PM
You are the same guy that was here under a different name late last year talking about the HOA applying Acephate to ant mounds aren't you.

If you are, I would advise all PCO's to avoid this guy and not respond! He is looking to cause unnecessary trouble for people doing a fine job but not to his standard.

(If you are not, I am sorry but there are too many similarities already. Again, sorry if I am wrong)

Texas_Native
02-05-2009, 02:13 PM
You are the same guy that was here under a different name late last year talking about the HOA applying Acephate to ant mounds aren't you.

If you are, I would advise all PCO's to avoid this guy and not respond! He is looking to cause unnecessary trouble for people doing a fine job but not to his standard.

(If you are not, I am sorry but there are too many similarities already. Again, sorry if I am wrong)

HUH? If you don't have anything useful to post, please don't. I did a search for specific details but couldn't find anything so that's why I asked. Thank you.

tamadrummer
02-05-2009, 02:22 PM
So you are the same guy then. Just under a new user name?

ted putnam
02-05-2009, 03:12 PM
So you are the same guy then. Just under a new user name?

I don't know if you are the same guy or not and at this point it really doesn't matter. Bald cypress and I'm sure close relatives of lose their needles in the winter. Fact of life. I have a sugar maple and my neighbor does also mine is not as exposed to the elements(frost for one) as his is. His doesn't turn color as soon as mine does(due to sunlight)but his loses its leaves sooner than mine because it typically gets frost on it sooner. At the time of year you are discussing this happening and possible positioning of the trees along with environmental factors, I think it would be very difficult to "point a finger". In other words I think you may be trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Watch the trees this Spring for leaf out. Othewrwise, I suggest that if your neighbor is that concerned that your neighbor take a sample to your local extension office for analysis.

Turfdoctor1
02-05-2009, 03:21 PM
So you are the same guy then. Just under a new user name?

funny, cause i thought the same thing.

jkranium
02-05-2009, 07:44 PM
Its totally the same guy I remember him. Fertilizing lawns doesnt harm children by the way.
I had a customers friend tell him I killed a 5' blue spruce with herbicide. To bad I use a magnum and dono't spray it around the trees at all. People dont realize that trees are complex organism and that diseases and other environmental conditions can affect them.

Think Green
02-05-2009, 09:17 PM
I have a wonderful customer whom is using a competitor to treat her lawn and fertilize. The lawn is Zoysia throughout the major areas and Hybrid Bermuda in the off site areas. Throughout the lawn there are numerous Souther White Pines around. Each time the company shows up to treat, we lose one pine each time. The client has come to us for advice. Sometimes it is best to not get involved with such actions. There is a long list of possibilities as to why the trees are dying. What one tree does in your lawn will react differently in another. Gradual soil changes (construction fillers and hard fill subsoil and compaction) we call this urban tree stresses, water saturation, pH, salt content, root obstructions, major and minor nutrient imbalances. You can spend alot of money finding out the solution. If one is inclined to know the answers, then send leaf, soil, and root samples to your state's agricultural testing fasility. If traces of Phenoxy herbicides, excessive salinity or other unnatural vector's, then you can blame the applicator and their company. It has to be proven first, then dealt with.