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Josh.S
02-07-2009, 08:43 PM
Hello,

I am in the process of acquiring a small fert business from a friend. With it will include this truck and permagreen. I would like to know what you guys think they are worth.

Truck Side:
-- 1993 INTERNATIONAL 4000 SERIES 4600
-- 19,660 GVRW
-- 203,000 on body
-- Rebuilt engine installed in 2006 w/ 57,000 miles on it before rebuild. Current would have around 2000-3000 miles on it. The engine cost $3500 + labor to install (around $5000 total).
-- Manual Spicer transmission
-- New front tires this spring ($700) and rear tires are fine


Spray Side:
-- 6.5 Honda motor -- Pump says "TA NONG Diamond" on it
-- New 300 foot Green Guard hose (cost 500) --- electric hose reel
-- Two 600 gallon tanks


PG Ride-on Ultra w/ 686 hrs on it.
5hp B/S motor
Home-made hitch rack
Purchased in 2006 for $2800. Year is unknown. (Couldn't find this info on it)



Okay, well that is all I know about the equipment. Could anybody make a stab at what each of these are worth? Let me know if you need anymore information.


Josh

(Yes, some pictures are poor quality, but the best I could do with my camera phone. Will attach more pictures in a minute)

Josh.S
02-07-2009, 08:46 PM
Here are the tanks and Honda motor. Wish I would have taken one a pic of the hose real and such.

Josh.S
02-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Here is the PG Ultra.

MStine315
02-07-2009, 11:33 PM
You can go to PG's website and look through their used PG list. It's pretty extensive. It may help you price out the PG at least. It does have pretty low hrs. for an Ultra. My 2 cents would be somewhere in the 2G ballpark.

Josh.S
02-08-2009, 01:36 AM
You can go to PG's website and look through their used PG list. It's pretty extensive. It may help you price out the PG at least. It does have pretty low hrs. for an Ultra. My 2 cents would be somewhere in the 2G ballpark.

That's about what I was thinking also. My main concern is the value of the truck. I know that a spray setup would only be worth something to somebody in the business, so maybe it would be less than it appears. Or maybe it would be best to separate the tanks/motor+pump/truck as three separate units.

IMAGE
02-08-2009, 02:23 AM
Truck without sprayer stuff ~~ $5000-8000. Depends how hard you want look for one. I see them around here for around $6k. The rebuilt engine may add to it though.

A friend of mine bought one 2 years ago, with higher miles and a van body for $4400 or $4700, something like that.

turfsolutions
02-08-2009, 12:09 PM
To me a value in a business is the customers not the equipment. I personally would not go that direction equipment wise when running a lawn ap business. Why do you need such a large truck? You can service a lot of properties with a pickup truck, z spray, and if you want, a tank sprayer. I would purchase the customers and let him sell the equipment on his own. Just my two cents.

RigglePLC
02-08-2009, 12:58 PM
Solutions has a good point. Estimate the value of the equipment separately from the customer list. Compare it to the cost of buying new equip. Rebuilt motor (no warranty) does not add much value to the truck. A factory new motor--with warranty would be nice. Check out spray equipment to make sure it has good pressure.
Take a look at the Serial number on the Ultra. It should be easy to find out when it was built. With over 600 hours--price should be closer to $1000. Plan on a few repairs.

Josh.S
02-09-2009, 02:00 AM
Truck without sprayer stuff ~~ $5000-8000. Depends how hard you want look for one. I see them around here for around $6k. The rebuilt engine may add to it though.

A friend of mine bought one 2 years ago, with higher miles and a van body for $4400 or $4700, something like that.

I hope it's worth more than $5000 considering he just put a motor in it that cost $4500. The sad reality is, I have a feeling it is only worth $6,000 or so, I don't know how much the rebuilt motor will really bring up the value.


To me a value in a business is the customers not the equipment. I personally would not go that direction equipment wise when running a lawn ap business. Why do you need such a large truck? You can service a lot of properties with a pickup truck, z spray, and if you want, a tank sprayer. I would purchase the customers and let him sell the equipment on his own. Just my two cents.

I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, he doesn't want to try to sell the equipment on his own... he is cutting me a pretty good deal on the business as a whole though.

Solutions has a good point. Estimate the value of the equipment separately from the customer list. Compare it to the cost of buying new equip. Rebuilt motor (no warranty) does not add much value to the truck. A factory new motor--with warranty would be nice. Check out spray equipment to make sure it has good pressure.
Take a look at the Serial number on the Ultra. It should be easy to find out when it was built. With over 600 hours--price should be closer to $1000. Plan on a few repairs.

He has come to a bottom dollar price, so I am trying to figure out what the equipment is worth in order to find out what I would be paying for the customers. The spray equipment works great. Where is the serial on the PG located?



Actually the direction I want to go with the business is to get a zspray or T3000 and use my F250. The owner will only sell the equipment with the business and will not separate. I figured for this year I might use this setup then change it up next year w/ my F250 when I have more money and know what I'm doing. I really don't know what to do.

Right now the owner does 2 dry apps and 2 wet apps on his customers per year, he also does a winterizer application if he gets time/feels like it.

I figured after some research and talking to people on here I will probably be best doing 5 dry applications. The second and fourth application I think I will do a spread the fert and then spray herbicide.

rcreech
02-09-2009, 08:11 AM
Why do you want such a large truck? What type of lawns are you planning on doing?

That just seems like a pretty big truck to me!

Those lighter INT trucks don't hold their value that well but that is good because I like them! They are pretty good trucks for the money!

The new motor MAY help the value slightly...but I wouldn't offer too much! Take it, its a gaser?????

Those things are usually DOGS when they are gasers. Would go diesel on that truck~!

Are you just buying equipment or accounts also?

I would be careful as most people I know (me included) pay too much or more then something is worth just because you WANT it!

I would only give face or a little below if it were me! Trucks are a dime a dozen right now!

turfsolutions
02-09-2009, 10:31 AM
How many customers does he have?

What is the average square footage per customer?

Are they contracted?

DUSTYCEDAR
02-09-2009, 10:39 AM
RUN AWAY
who is buying anything at this point.
how much does the biz Gross???
buy the customers if you want but skip the crap he is selling.
that truck will cost a lot to insure fuel up and keep on the road.
you could buy a new pickup and be in biz like that.
his poor biz choice is not your problem.

RigglePLC
02-09-2009, 10:59 AM
The serial number is hidden under the tank forward of the motor, on the stainless steel bulkhead, near where the spreader-open linkage passes through to the hopper. The date of manufacture is probably hidden in there somewhere. My number is 0422005-1491 Model 60A1A. I think it was made about 2002 or 2001.

Josh.S
02-09-2009, 11:10 AM
Why do you want such a large truck? What type of lawns are you planning on doing?

That just seems like a pretty big truck to me!

Those lighter INT trucks don't hold their value that well but that is good because I like them! They are pretty good trucks for the money!

The new motor MAY help the value slightly...but I wouldn't offer too much! Take it, its a gaser?????

Those things are usually DOGS when they are gasers. Would go diesel on that truck~!

Are you just buying equipment or accounts also?


I don't want this truck. I am just trying to get this business and equipment is included. The truck is a diesel, so I am assuming that it is a 466. I am just buying the equipment for the accounts, therefor if I find how much equipment can be sold for then I can find how much total I should pay.


How many customers does he have?

What is the average square footage per customer?

Are they contracted?

It's just a small business of a friend of mine. He is wanting to get out because he is too busy. It's only 130'ish accounts. It has a gross revenue of around $30,000 if you do 4 applications with no upsells.

I don't know how may square feet but it takes 2.5-3 skids of fert to do the dry application. I don't know how many bags are in a skid.

No contracts but customers have been long term.

RUN AWAY
who is buying anything at this point.
how much does the biz Gross???
buy the customers if you want but skip the crap he is selling.
that truck will cost a lot to insure fuel up and keep on the road.
you could buy a new pickup and be in biz like that.
his poor biz choice is not your problem.

I understand your points, but this is the way that the business is ran. Insurance is only like $500 per yr on the truck. Fuel isn't that bad because it is a tight route. He didn't pick this equipment either though, it's a long story but he got screwed into running this business.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-09-2009, 11:45 AM
but he got screwed into running this business.
AND NOW HE TRYING TO DO IT TO YOU

A SKID OF FERT IS GOING TO COST ABOUT A GRAND
YOU NEED 3 SO 3 GRAND PER ROUND
I AM JUST TRYING TO KEEP YOU FROM SINKING
if you want to do this great work out a payment plan based on customer that stay with you.
if they r used to 4 apps and thats it i dont think you will get much more out of them right now.
truck 5 grand
pg 1000 bucks
tanks on truck 1000 maby
customers well 230 per account per season gross
i dont think i would give more than 10k for all of it
best of luck with you endeavor

Josh.S
02-09-2009, 11:53 AM
but he got screwed into running this business.
AND NOW HE TRYING TO DO IT TO YOU

A SKID OF FERT IS GOING TO COST ABOUT A GRAND
YOU NEED 3 SO 3 GRAND PER ROUND
I AM JUST TRYING TO KEEP YOU FROM SINKING
if you want to do this great work out a payment plan based on customer that stay with you.
if they r used to 4 apps and thats it i dont think you will get much more out of them right now.
truck 5 grand
pg 1000 bucks
tanks on truck 1000 maby
customers well 230 per account per season gross
i dont think i would give more than 10k for all of it
best of luck with you endeavor

I appreciate your advice. This guy is a friend of mine and wouldn't screw me, it's a long story for how he ended up running it.

So your saying that 130 accounts is only worth $3000? He wouldn't dream of selling it for 10,000 w/ equipment, he paid 30,000 for it a few years ago w/o the permagreen and less accts. I think he paid too much but I don't know what it's worth at this time.

Maybe I would be best starting from scratch, but I just figured I would do better with a handful of customers while taking out one of the few fert companies in town.

RigglePLC
02-09-2009, 01:10 PM
Mow--in the past some compainies have sold for about net sales, say about $30,000 plus value of the equipment. Offer him about 75 percent of that.