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ppl
02-08-2009, 03:40 PM
I do alot reading here and thought that I post some photos of some water features and get some feed back.

tadpole
02-08-2009, 04:50 PM
LOOKS GREAT! Good mix of rock sizes. Especially liked the fact that you have vegetation at the stream edge. This is the 'icing on the cake' for a natural look. Really nice.

Lite4
02-08-2009, 05:22 PM
Not too bad. Some smaller pea type gravel wouldnt' look to bad mixed into the base of the stream to further enhance the naturalistic effect. The carex will look really nice once they fully mature.

ppl
02-09-2009, 05:46 PM
pea gravel mixed with the large would help. I will be taking pictures as the year goes on every quarter.

XStream Aquatics
02-09-2009, 05:52 PM
looks like you might have mulch wash in if you have a heavy rain.

ppl
02-09-2009, 07:47 PM
I am trying to avoid the cobble border look, where rock is placed around the edge. Once plant are established should not be a huge concern

tadpole
02-09-2009, 07:58 PM
If I were to add/change anything, it would be the possible addition of larger cobbles. There is a fairly large size gap between the larger rock and the small cobble that you used. With all due respect, pea gravel is not usually found in a mountain type stream, but usually in a valley stream.

scooterbug311
02-10-2009, 11:46 AM
i will have to disagree with tadpole. there is pea gravel in high mountain streams. i live in colorado and our rivers and streams have pea gravel in them. and that is just facts

tadpole
02-10-2009, 01:26 PM
Scooterbug is right. I should have been more detailed in my comment. Pea gravel does not occur in high mountain streams where there is a strong flow. The pea gravel is carried downstream to a section of the stream with a slower flow where it will settle out. Thanks for catching me on that!

XStream Aquatics
02-10-2009, 05:35 PM
I like to use a small type gravel around my low spots on the edges and then bring the mulch up to and over slightly thus giving the same effect. Tadpole is right, I would use some larger cobblers along the edges instead of the large gravel. If there are dogs or kids around you are going to be constantly putting the small river rounds back. In the third pic it looks like you can see the liner on the top edge, just an example of how these rocks will always shift. I like the less is more effect with the boulders, some installers try and use to many boulders.

n2h20
02-12-2009, 02:55 AM
i have found that a shredded mulch rather than mulch chips don;t "float" or slip into the pond as easy. it seems to clump or hold to itself pretty good. Now if i could just stop the raccoons from putting it into the ponds id be good.....

n2h20
02-12-2009, 02:57 AM
oh yeah,, i dont care for the smooth dark colored rock you used. I would have gone with a different type of "odd" shaped gravel of various sizes. those pebbles looked like you placed them along the edge of the pond. all in all it looks good,,

ppl
02-12-2009, 06:14 PM
this was the 3rd water feature built by us and I am happy the way it turned out. The home owner is happy and that is what counts. The cobble rock around here is very common in the rivers and that is what is avaible at the local yards. The next one we build will be a greater mixture of rock sizes. Ranging from pea gravel, 7/8 wash rock, cobble,I also plan to pick up some softball size/football size piece of granite. To create a blend

thanks for your input

ANC Stone Creations
02-13-2009, 03:38 AM
ppl, where are you located?

We are also from the Seattle area!

Do you mostly do maint.? or ?

ppl
02-13-2009, 06:19 PM
Anc
We are located in Kirkland we do it all but we are young company. We stay away from cutting grass if we can. Where are you located? Pacific that a distance from here.

ANC Stone Creations
02-13-2009, 07:56 PM
PPl,

I live in Pacific Beach just 15 minutes north of Ocean Shores.

Most of our work is up around your area.

You should check out our website at www.ancstonecreations.webs.com
If you have ever seen the columns from Russell Watergardens in Redmond Wa., then you have already seen our rocks!
Except we offer better pricing to landscapers and contractors!

Our Rock Columns our the most realistic in the World!

ppl
02-13-2009, 08:02 PM
Do you have a landscape construction company as well as a rock fab. company?

XStream Aquatics
02-13-2009, 09:23 PM
PPl,

I live in Pacific Beach just 15 minutes north of Ocean Shores.

Most of our work is up around your area.

You should check out our website at www.ancstonecreations.webs.com
If you have ever seen the columns from Russell Watergardens in Redmond Wa., then you have already seen our rocks!
Except we offer better pricing to landscapers and contractors!

Our Rock Columns our the most realistic in the World!

How many here have used or use Russell Watergardens backwashable biofilters(dolphin,marlin)?

ppl
02-13-2009, 11:09 PM
Russel water garden's flagship store is located in Redmond Wa. and they have many displays setup there. A lot of local LA contractor build display for free hoping to attach customers, of course russel supplies the filters and connection. Have you ever check out Filtrific they are just down the road from russel and the people there are a whole lot easier the get along with. Plus, the filtrific is not a fish pond setup and is a whole lot quicker and easier to install. They do not have bulck heads to install they are setup different and more user friendly.

ANC Stone Creations
02-14-2009, 02:59 AM
Yes, A friend of mines wife works at Berkey Supply in Woodinville and Filtrific is an awesome product for pondless applications!

Have you ever used any of the Rock Columns from Russells?

Let me know if you ever need any more.

ANC Stone Creations
02-14-2009, 03:51 AM
XStream Aquatics,

I have used the backwashable from Russells they are alright, the problem with them is they try like hell to upsell other items to you in the process, and the service is just alright, they could be more friendly in a personal way instead of a serious salesman attitude.

Check out what flowranger has to offer, Butch is an awesome guy!

I personaly choose to not use a filter falls in most of my water feature designs, as I think nature does a better job at filtering the water itself with the proper planted bog filteration.

ANC Stone Creations
02-14-2009, 03:59 AM
PPl,
It looks to me like you may be losing water in your feature by the pictures.

If you look from my angle, on the first picture, lower fall rock, looks like right side edge may be a little low or maybe it's just the picture.

Your feature looks awesome by the way, keep up the good work!

XStream Aquatics
02-14-2009, 11:42 AM
ANC, we installed two dolphins in 2005 at the first ponditat in myrtle beach. I thought they were ok but I do agree an upflow bog is my favorite also.

ppl
02-14-2009, 02:10 PM
Anc

That feature has been running for two months without an auto fill and the linear extents under the mulch and dirt it not lossing water. Thanks for the concern

ANC Stone Creations
02-14-2009, 07:38 PM
Right on!

Just thought I would mention, it looked low.

ANC Stone Creations
02-14-2009, 07:41 PM
XStream Aquatics,

Do you guys do many Rock Columns in water features?

XStream Aquatics
02-14-2009, 09:30 PM
XStream Aquatics,

Do you guys do many Rock Columns in water features?

Hardly ever.

XStream Aquatics
02-14-2009, 09:46 PM
[QUOTE=ppl;2770624]Anc

That feature has been running for two months without an auto fill and the linear extents under the mulch and dirt it not lossing water. Thanks for the concern[/

Can't say that I agree with the dirt on top of the liner. Yeah it's been running for two months but this is something that has to be built to last.

How many people have heard of the statistics on the percent of water features that fail within the first year?

tadpole
02-14-2009, 10:30 PM
What does dirt on top of the liner have to do with the Water Feature lasting? I have been putting soil overlapping the liner, when dictated by the desired design, for 10 years. First year Water Feature failure is caused primarily, not altogether from faulty construction, but primarily due to the fact that not enough emphasis was initially placed on achieving all-around biological balance, and the customer was not adequately instructed on what their maintenance responsibilities were and WHY.

ppl
02-15-2009, 01:13 AM
[QUOTE=ppl;2770624]Anc

That feature has been running for two months without an auto fill and the linear extents under the mulch and dirt it not lossing water. Thanks for the concern[/

Can't say that I agree with the dirt on top of the liner. Yeah it's been running for two months but this is something that has to be built to last.

How many people have heard of the statistics on the percent of water features that fail within the first year?

I am not following you. There is the problem with dirt over the linear? The system has a filter, skimmer, auto fill, auto shut off, bio filter and plants to help with nutrients up take. What am I missing? I am not trying to be defensive.

XStream Aquatics
02-15-2009, 10:30 AM
Dirt doesn't have anything to do with it lasting(duh):hammerhead:, but by putting dirt on the liner IMO tells me your not certified and that you're not thinking things thru. If dirt is on a liner where does that liner lead to? The water, yeah you've got filtration and if you've only got a shovel full of dirt you should be alright. But I gaurantee that's not the case. Tadpole, just asking, in 10 yrs. have you ever had to rework another installers or diy'ers pond that as DIRT over the liner? I have MANY MANY times and quess what, if they done that than 99% of the time (since they didn't know any better than to use dirt) then they didn't know how to size size proper filtration and installed a half a*# water feature. Tadpole let's say you get a chance to be a speaker at an Aquascape seminar or Pondapoloza or any other top dog company like Firestone, Savio etc...in front of hundreds of other installers, would you without hesitation stand up and say "I've been installing water features for 10 yrs. and I put dirt over my liner!?!?" If you did I quess you'd give eveybody who writes pond magazine articles something to write about in their next months edition. Let me defend you in case I'm missing something, If you have 6' of overlay and have dirt on the liner I quess you might be ok.

PPL, I'm not trying to be a jerk but why would you need to put dirt over your liner? I hope there will be other installers on this forum that will stand up and voice their opinions too.

So back to the topic, I didn't say dirt would be the failure of a system, but if someone IMO uses dirt on the liner than they problem do alot of other things wrong which I'm saying WOULD lead up to a failed system. But hey if you've used 10-20 tandem truck loads of dirt over your 10 years without a failure then I tip my hat to you.

Look at these pics below from a tear out we did last year. They didn't really have dirt laying over the liner but the liner edges weren't installed correctly therefore allowing dirt to wash in over the edge. Nobody can tell me that this wasn't causing problems!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Venturewest
02-15-2009, 10:56 AM
This is an interesting topic. We should all make sure we are talking about the same thing here. I would guess that 95% of the time installers, install dirt over the liner because they don't know what they are doing. (not talking about anyone on this forum) The problem with dirt on the liner is losing water from the feature through capillary action or wicking.

The times that I have gone back and checked pond and waterfall edges and the liner was under the soil but still above the water level, the soil was moist. The water feature was slowly losing water.

I attended a pond build though, where the presenter showed us a technique to effectively use soil over the liner to hide the liner and create dirt planting pockets. You could even sod over the liner. The trick was, keeping the liner high enough above the water level to prevent the wicking action. At our build, 3" was enough, but it would depend on enviromental and soil conditions.

This was a planned, and very carefully measured technique.

Venturewest
02-15-2009, 11:09 AM
Kind of like this.

XStream Aquatics
02-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Venture,Very good point on wicking. But your pic still looks like erosion could accur and wash into the pond.

This pic is how I do it. And Tadpole if this is the same method you refer to then I apologize for earlier statements. Venture, I only use sod up against the pond if it is a large pond like 1/4 acre or up. Back yard ponds with grass up to the edge IMO is a headache. When you have to trim around the pond the clippings go into the pond. And if you have a homeowner that hires out lawn maint. they arn't as careful with the mowing clippings either.

tadpole
02-15-2009, 02:51 PM
Actually, I use both methods of edge treatment. Wicking (capillary action) has never proven to be a major problem if the liner extends far enough vertically above the water. There is a maximum height tha water will "wick", then gravity takes over. This height is dependent on soil type---sandy, not very high; clayey loam, considerably higher. I do not have a problem with erosion because I do not use this type of edge treatment near substantial water current and it is always planted and/or covered with gravel.. No sod or organic mulch within 2 feet of pond edge.

ppl
02-15-2009, 10:31 PM
I have been reading Bob Dews Articles and use the methods that he outlines on his web site. If wicking is a concern was about evaportransperation?

tadpole
02-15-2009, 11:19 PM
Evapotranspiration is without a doubt the biggest contributor to water loss in a Pond-natural or constructed (excluding leaks).The field studies that I have read pretty much agree that plants will add 25% average loss to the prevailing evaporation rate. In other words, if a 100 sq/ft pond with no plants loses an inch/day to evaporation, then with 30% plant coverage, it will lose 1.3 inches/day. Of course, there are other factors involved that may cause this to vary, but this seems to be the accepted working rule.

ppl
02-15-2009, 11:24 PM
Those are some good numbers to remember. How is your spring in Florida

tadpole
02-16-2009, 10:03 AM
Correction to my last post!!

Total evap. should read 1.075 inch/day instead of 1.3. I know better than to work with figures when I'm tired. Sorry guys.
This extra evap. on this pond amounts to about 56 additional gallons of water loss, but you must have plants so I guess that it is a trade-off.

tadpole
02-16-2009, 11:07 AM
I've got to remember that 'Spell Check' doesn't work with figures. That should read 5.6 gallons of water, not 56.