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View Full Version : Tea brewing how deep should we go?


DUSTYCEDAR
02-10-2009, 04:47 PM
in the taller water column, stands to reason that the longer/taller the air stays under water then the more air, DO2 that you will have........ then there's the weight of the water...
SO HOW DEEP SHOULD WE GO

JDUtah
02-10-2009, 04:52 PM
about yea deep... ;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3022/2402548202_26e8a2d464.jpg

DUSTYCEDAR
02-10-2009, 04:53 PM
that looks like the hole i throw my cash down

JDUtah
02-10-2009, 04:56 PM
lol :) :)

treegal1
02-10-2009, 06:23 PM
as deep as the air pump will allow???? my air is under the water for almost 5 feet....

DUSTYCEDAR
02-10-2009, 06:36 PM
5 feet i would need a stool to see in the dang thing

treegal1
02-10-2009, 06:43 PM
the brewers from floor to lip is 6'6" how else do you stack up 250 gallons.....

treegal1
02-10-2009, 06:45 PM
I think that the best answer is how many feet of water or inches of water your pump pushes, deeper more work To pump!!

DUSTYCEDAR
02-10-2009, 06:56 PM
OK JUST a thought like you said
i need a d.o. meter

Mr. Nice
02-10-2009, 07:22 PM
I would like to see if a brewer no deeper then a foot or so deep but with plenty of surface area? Like a kiddie pool or something? Maybe a play off of Tim's up pipe design breaking the water tension and circulating from bottom to the top and so on.

Might mean more cleaning and logistical problems then it's worth though??

Has anybody tried this approach before? and if so how much more efficient or not is the O2 diffusion using more surface area and less water depth?

treegal1
02-10-2009, 07:27 PM
its called bioform brewing.....like 3 hearts.....

Mr. Nice
02-10-2009, 07:37 PM
Dusty,

Buy the cheapo PIN POINT DO meter, like 220$? works well for this purpose. let me know if you get it in the future and I can give you some hints on how to care for it properly.

The directions it comes with are crap.. there's a right and wrong way to care for it. saves money not buying new membranes and replacement probes.

DUSTYCEDAR
02-10-2009, 08:12 PM
Thanks do you have one you like?
Model number and such

bicmudpuppy
02-10-2009, 08:13 PM
I would like to see if a brewer no deeper then a foot or so deep but with plenty of surface area? Like a kiddie pool or something? Maybe a play off of Tim's up pipe design breaking the water tension and circulating from bottom to the top and so on.

Might mean more cleaning and logistical problems then it's worth though??

Has anybody tried this approach before? and if so how much more efficient or not is the O2 diffusion using more surface area and less water depth?

I would think the best way to oxygenate is increased surface are. By that, I mean waterfall. You guys tell me that the CT is fairly "clean" aesthetically. A three to four foot drop over something like six feet would give you 20-30' of surface area. If you were moving that water enough to keep it moving (I need to look up the pond math, but 1" of fall by 1' of width is a lot of water, this would be 48" of fall by 3' of width) your going to be moving several thousand gallons of water per hour. If the input to the tank above the waterfall has a venturi tube adding even more water, I'm thinking WOW. BUT you need the space to do something like that. A pond type filter system would provide lots of breeding surface for the beneficials. The major detriment I can see to this is what happens if the system crashes or becomes contaminated. Cleaning it isn't going to be a good time.

If the kiddie pool was something someone wanted to try, then a paddle wheel in the middle of it, beating the water to provide additional mechanical aeration would possibly work. None of these provides much ROI from what I am understanding. Move as much air as you possibly can in what you can get for a brew tank and let nature do her best as well.

treegal1
02-10-2009, 08:32 PM
OK then there, me, just my .02 cents, I will stay with the 3x4 foot area that I use to brew 250 gallons at a time nice quiet re gen blower with great air, long life and a solid tank.

went the low cost way for a while and you just can not skip the big ZT for a push mower.... did the pump thing with every type and size venturi, did the 4 small pumps, a barrel for every month of the year, upside down and sideways, leg tank, cone tank, flat tank. collapsible soft tank. poly tank. pools of every type and size. just get the air up and feed the herd. after that then its just going through the motions with a scope and a DO2 meter....

the way i looked at my system and justified its costs are the tea output the $$$ to start and the life of the unit and the run costs per year, after that again, look at the tea and tell what you got...

Mr. Nice
02-10-2009, 09:15 PM
Dusty,

yes, it's called a pin point DO meter, you can buy them from Aquatic Eco systems inc.They have a million other useful things too.

Tim W. has a link to them on is site. I have the regular pin point DO meter I think I paid 220$ but they have a new model called pin point 2 DO meter for $280. but mine does just fine.

If you get one get extra membranes for it, like a extra $ 20 or something

bicmudpuppy
02-10-2009, 09:18 PM
TG, that's what I meant by ROI. The effort and space to do it any other way sounds excess in what you get back. The regen blower seems excessive to me, but we will find out when I get mine going. Tank design is a factor, but from everything you guys have said here, I can't help but think that air flow is the major factor. Again, for the next 45-90 days, I'm just a spectator with an opinion. The tank I'm going to use may not be the best, but it has the best price (paid for :) ) I am curious to see what happens when you get a colony you like going. Can you decant 1/2 to 2/3 of the tank volume, re-fill and feed? I am sure you CAN, but what is the recovery time. Is it better to "start over" with new material? How consistent a colony culture can I get outside of the tank to use to brew with? How consistent will the culture in the tank stay if I just feed? When I get a scope, what does my "raw" water look like? These discussions are leading my down paths I didn't realize existed.

Looking at the available DO chemical test kits, I found a few soil test kits I want to try. I've seen DIY soil tests before and they end up being crap. These looked promising. I MUST get on a program for testing my water. The quality of the water varies with the seasons. The water I'm going to get in March should be, from all indications, "pure as the driven snow" :) (maybe because that's what it is? melting snow). As the season progresses, my understanding is the water gets worse. First, we go from pure snow melt to snow that has had ground contact and starts to pick up ground contamination. THEN, we get rain runoff from the "monsoon" season, and the water gets even worse. The water I saw in September was frightening.

What is the diversity of this water source going to do to my "brew"? If I get a great brew in late spring, will the salinity and ph of the water adjust it in summer and fall? or will it cause it to crash? Exciting times ahead.

Mr. Nice
02-10-2009, 09:22 PM
With out a doubt simplicity is king when it comes to CT making,
Less cleaning the better, yet still offers good O2 and circulation,It's a balance thing between them that makes a good brewer.

STAY AWAY FROM ANY FILTERS! when brewing

If I was going to build a lift system for the water I would only use a water lift.
Not a pump with propellers, but some do use that type of pump to brew?

Mr. Nice
02-10-2009, 09:24 PM
. The regen blower seems excessive to me,


:nono::nono::nono:

Prolawnservice
02-10-2009, 09:28 PM
5 feet i would need a stool to see in the dang thing

yea tell me about it

bicmudpuppy
02-10-2009, 09:37 PM
The regen blower seems excessive to me,


:nono::nono::nono:

Hey, TG and I are talking about this. I *think* I can get the same or more air moving using a squirrel cage fan blower. If I'm wrong, I'm going to have blown a few bucks "learning". If I'm right, I'm going to have saved myself a few hundred bucks. I waiting for an e-bay auction to "mature" right now. I think I can get a 5" 2.5amp 400cfm fan for under 50 bucks including shipping. I know you can dead head this type of fan. Will it move enough air? That is the question. If it works, a 4" tee should fit into the output. I could then run my 225gal tank AND the 110gal tank at the same time. It should be louder than TG's regen blower, but I can put the thing outside far enough away that I can stand a little noise. (little is the operative word here though)

Mr. Nice
02-10-2009, 09:55 PM
bic,

I don't think the cage fan will work. save your money

bicmudpuppy
02-10-2009, 10:11 PM
bic,

I don't think the cage fan will work. save your money

Knee jerk response is "why not"?

They use small squirrel cage fans to inflate the poly layers in green houses all over the country. These fans dead head against the air pressure in the plastic and run 24/7 for years. We are talking about 2psi here to reach 54" of vertical pressure. Those poly green houses are catching something close to 10psi to stay inflated and provide the air insulation needed. If a 5hp shop vac can blow a volatile amount of air into my 225 gallon tank, then a 400cfm squirrel cage blower has got to move 3-4 times that much air. The limiting factor is going to be the number of air holes and length of pipe IN the tank to release the air.

treegal1
02-10-2009, 10:15 PM
yea tell me about it
hey if it helps any the short tank did not work, so back to the tall tanks, same mold as yours, just a little more clear and less thick...... the shorter tanks would not get the DO2 up:cry::cry: so now I have 4 short tanks for fish to live in.....

Prolawnservice
02-10-2009, 10:18 PM
Knee jerk response is "why not"?

They use small squirrel cage fans to inflate the poly layers in green houses all over the country. These fans dead head against the air pressure in the plastic and run 24/7 for years. We are talking about 2psi here to reach 54" of vertical pressure. Those poly green houses are catching something close to 10psi to stay inflated and provide the air insulation needed. If a 5hp shop vac can blow a volatile amount of air into my 225 gallon tank, then a 400cfm squirrel cage blower has got to move 3-4 times that much air. The limiting factor is going to be the number of air holes and length of pipe IN the tank to release the air.

It won't work, I tried it, you can find a used regen on ebay for like $80 sometimes. Not enough pressure for some reason

treegal1
02-10-2009, 10:19 PM
I just dont see the pressure and volume and energy to get it done..... thats just me so show us how it works and I will change my mind. for now this is the one I like.