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Armadillolawncare
02-10-2009, 10:59 PM
Well after hanging out in here for a while I have decided I like it well enough that I am going to try to get my licience. After being abused for have a signature then not being able to find many recent posts having to actually do with irrigation I decided I wanted in. Whats not to love. I attended the mandatory class and have been studying for the last few weeks. I had no idea their was this much to know about irrigation. I had no idea about hydraulics. I also feel the class is much to short to really cover the topic unless youare already familiar with irrigation which I was not. So tomorrow morning I will leave the house a 4 am to get to Houston for an 8 am test start time. My instructor said most do not pass in the first attempt, hopefully I am not one of those. I want to take it and be done with it. I'll give an update after the test and try to remember some of the questions to post for you guys to pick over when I get back.

EagleLandscape
02-10-2009, 11:08 PM
Let me know how it goes. Who did you take your 40 hour class from? Did you like it?

Alot of the material taught in the class is "testworthy", but the majority of it is focused on designs. I figure most of the guys in my class will not be designing, and thankfully so.

The best thing you can do is find a reputable irrigator in your area. Offer to go work with him on repairs for a few days for free, just to learn. VALUABLE TIME SPENT!!!

JimLewis
02-10-2009, 11:15 PM
I am not so sure it would be easy to go find a competitor who's going to be willing to train you for free. If someone locally asked me to help them learn for a few days so they could become my competitor, I'd say, "Sorry chump. You wish!"

Better to go ask someone in a city 50-100 miles away. If they aren't your direct competitor, I think they'd be very happy to help.

Also, get to know your local rep. from your irrigation supplier. Take him to lunch (actually, he'll pay) and get to know him. Be sure to get his cell phone too. He'll be invaluable in helping you as you learn irrigation. I can't count the times I called my rep. at Horizon back when I was first learning irrigation. It was nice to have someone to call for help when I got into a sticky situation who wasn't a competitor.

Anyway, best of luck! Hope it goes well!

Armadillolawncare
02-11-2009, 12:12 AM
The instructor for my class was Jim Pentacost and he has been very helpful. I was at the library today studying when I realized that I could not remember how to answer a question regarding hydraulics for a system that has 2 zones operating at the same time. I gave him a call at #pm and he told me how to figure it out.
The question was as follows:
With section valve 1 and 2 operating simultaneously, what is the pressure loss thru the 90 feet of 1 1/4 PVC from the DC, past valve 1 to section valve 2?

The next follow up question from the same diagram
With a static pressure of 65 psi what is the pressure at valve 2 with valve 1 operating by itself?

With section valve 1 and 2 operating simultaneously, what is the velocity thru the 4 feet of 1 1/4 pvc between the meter and dc assembly?

I asked him to review all three of these questions out of my study binder and he was happy to do so.

CAPT Stream Rotar
02-11-2009, 08:03 AM
in the dFW area I would say Ben Fisher was top gun in the classroom..

and if you failed the test he would have you back in his classroom until you passed

EagleLandscape
02-11-2009, 09:57 AM
Ya you have to think on those questions, but they aren't bad. just have to be able to write everything/draw it out. I overnighted my paperwork in yesterday, hopefully I can take it on FEB 26th which is the next test date.

bcg
02-11-2009, 11:32 AM
in the dFW area I would say Ben Fisher was top gun in the classroom..

and if you failed the test he would have you back in his classroom until you passed

I took his class and then took the test a couple weeks after. I think I was the 2nd or 3rd person to finish that day, right around noon. Took my paperwork up and the guy says "You finished?" I said yep, he asks, "You sure you want to be finished?" I'd already gone over everything a couple of times so I told him yes and he says "See you next time then." I chuckled and told him see you then. Go the results a couple weeks later and scored 100% on the Hydraulics section and high 90's on the rest of it. The test is easy if you're prepared and have a decent command of basic math. Fisher's class did a good job of making sure you were prepared.

Shawn Perkins
02-11-2009, 11:44 AM
I also took it with Fisher took the test two weeks later and got 90's on all but one section and that one i got a 87 :( I did study about 30 hours after the class and before the test.TCEQ #'s say only about 17% pass all four sections the first time

Jerry Lewis is also very good a runs a fun class.

Both Fisher and lewis have over a 80 % pass rate From what i have been told.

Waterit
02-11-2009, 02:20 PM
Jerry Lewis is also very good.

The French love Jerry Lewis

135387

txgrassguy
02-11-2009, 05:35 PM
I took the test over seven years ago here in Texas.
At that time there were about 100 people in the examination room.
I was told by one of the proctor's that fully 75% of the people were re-tests.
Good luck on your test.

CAPT Stream Rotar
02-11-2009, 05:44 PM
I also took it with Fisher took the test two weeks later and got 90's on all but one section and that one i got a 87 :( I did study about 30 hours after the class and before the test.TCEQ #'s say only about 17% pass all four sections the first time

Jerry Lewis is also very good a runs a fun class.

Both Fisher and lewis have over a 80 % pass rate From what i have been told.


No kidding...I took his class when i was a pup a few years ago in Plano...
Guy was top dog....I think its pretty crazy that you all know him..
If i was half as smart as he is with hydraulics I would die a happy man..

@ the end he called me the "cape cod KID"
like a gunfighter....

JimLewis
02-11-2009, 06:13 PM
The French love Jerry Lewis

135387

So do I. Jerry Lewis is my dad. :dancing:



.

Wet_Boots
02-11-2009, 07:00 PM
So do I. Jerry Lewis is my dad. :dancing:



.That makes your mom Nice Layyyyyyy-deeeeeee!

dlee1996
02-11-2009, 09:25 PM
The test is not bad. I had Ben Fisher for my instructor. He is a very good teacher. I have also talked a lot with Jerry Lewis, took backflow with him, he also knows his stuff very well. I passed all of my exam the first time with little study time. Just know your hydraulics, those questions were about 10 points a piece.

JimLewis
02-11-2009, 09:37 PM
That makes your mom Nice Layyyyyyy-deeeeeee!

I think you're dating yourself there, old man. Nobody here really remembers anything about Jerry Lewis. :waving:

Waterit
02-11-2009, 10:18 PM
I think you're dating yourself there, old man. Nobody here really remembers anything about Jerry Lewis. :waving:

Au contraire, mon ami. Check out the "age of LS irrigators" thread - there are several of us here old enough to remember him: the movies with Deano, all the telethon years, etc.

Is THE Jerry Lewis really your dad, or a namesake? Just asking- no offense intended either way.

JimLewis
02-11-2009, 11:05 PM
No relation at all.

But I am always happy when I hear about old men doing irrigation. When I give my presentations about how our irrigation systems are different than the competition, people always ask me, "Why didn't any of the other contractors I got bids from tell me about these pressure regulated heads, rain sensors, and weather based controllers?" To which I always reply, "There are a lot of old irrigators out there who have just 'always done it that way' and are set in their ways. They still think Hunter makes the best rotors, they still use old-school 2" pop-up spray heads, they still swear that DMSO is better than PVC glue, and they still think people know who Jerry Lewis is."

Then we both have a good laugh as they sign a contract. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Waterit
02-11-2009, 11:40 PM
But I am always happy when I hear about old men doing irrigation.

That's me, that's me!
And Fimco.
And Leary.
And Greg.

But I don't think we're stuck in our ways - I haven't used a 2" pop-up since the late 90's:rolleyes:

ARGOS
02-11-2009, 11:44 PM
That's me, that's me!
And Fimco.
And Leary.
And Greg.

But I don't think we're stuck in our ways - I haven't used a 2" pop-up since the late 90's:rolleyes:

I am glad I am not on that list. HA!

Wet_Boots
02-12-2009, 08:18 AM
DMSO?? :dizzy:

Waterit
02-12-2009, 08:39 AM
DMSO?? :dizzy:

I'm partial to JB Weld and Gorilla Glue.

Wet_Boots
02-12-2009, 09:13 AM
Just say no :nono:

Mike Leary
02-12-2009, 09:17 AM
But I don't think we're stuck in our ways - I haven't used a 2" pop-up since the late 90's:rolleyes:

Ditto, or any hydraulic valves!

JimLewis
02-12-2009, 10:27 AM
DMSO?? :dizzy:

Come on. I know you old guys still use that stuff for everything. Don't pretend that you don't know what I am talking about.

Mike Leary
02-12-2009, 10:46 AM
DMSO?? :dizzy:

I'm old enough to remember it being mixed with LSD, sure acted quick! :dizzy:

Wet_Boots
02-12-2009, 10:46 AM
I prefer to use Old Overholt

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:TytuaK0dannnJM:http://thumbnail.image.rakuten.co.jp/%400_mall/kawachi/cabinet/products2/overholt.jpg

JimLewis
02-12-2009, 10:51 AM
You know what's really funny??? As I am typing making fun of you "old guys", I just had to pop 4 Advil 'cause my prostatitia is acting up... ;)

Wet_Boots
02-12-2009, 10:55 AM
Four Advil? Hard-core pillpopping there.

Mike Leary
02-12-2009, 10:57 AM
I just had to pop 4 Advil 'cause my prostatitia is acting up... ;)

Catches up with all of us, Jim. :laugh:

AI Inc
02-12-2009, 10:58 AM
be carefull with that stuff , too much will rot ya gut .

Wet_Boots
02-12-2009, 11:02 AM
Come on. I know you old guys still use that stuff for everything. Don't pretend that you don't know what I am talking about.I know nothing! Noth-ing!!

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:3MMorYkmmonmwM:http://www.nndb.com/people/181/000032085/schultz.jpg

JimLewis
02-12-2009, 11:33 AM
I know nothing! Noth-ing!!

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:3MMorYkmmonmwM:http://www.nndb.com/people/181/000032085/schultz.jpg

LOL! Now that guy I remember!!!

AI Inc
02-12-2009, 11:39 AM
LOL! Now that guy I remember!!!

Well then , you may not be as young as you think , lol

JimLewis
02-12-2009, 12:04 PM
I know I am not. But it makes me feel younger to make fun of guys who are a little older. Hehe.... :laugh:

Wet_Boots
02-12-2009, 12:06 PM
I know I am not. But it makes me feel younger to make fun of guys who are a little older. Hehe.... :laugh:Elder abuse ill becomes you. :)

Armadillolawncare
02-13-2009, 01:21 AM
Ok so I took the test yesterday. I couldn't fall asleep the night before what with all the hydraulics circling around in my brain so I ended up just starting my 3 hour drive to Houston at 3am. Arrived at the testing site at about 6am and then tried to sleep for about an hour and a half before the test.
I was really surprised at the security of the event. You were not allowed to bring in anything other then a calculator, 2 pencils and your engineers ruler. No phones, no brief cases or purses, nothing. They provided you with 2 sheets of blank white paper, 2 sheets of graph paper an answer sheet, one residential drawing with 3 zones on it and the test booklet. They said we were the first class to take the test with the new info for the changing laws. About 1/3 of the class were people retaking sections they failed on the first attempt. Every page in the test booklet said something to the effect that if you copy or posess any parts of this test without permission you can be punished with up to 1 year in jail or fined up to 10,000 dollars! If you used up your two white sheets of paper and needed more you had to turn in what you used to get more so you would never have more then 2 sheets. When you finished the test you could not leave until they verified that you returned all materials including 2 sheets of graph paper and white paper. Two monitors walked the room at all times to answer any questions and to discourage cheating. You had to score 70% or better on each of the 4 sections to pass. The 4 sections were Design, Hydraulics. BF theory and Installation. All questions were multiple guess, no true false questions. Different questions were worth more points. There were 6 hydraulic questions 5 of which were worth 10 points each and one worth 5 points. The hydraulic questions all involved figuring the design pressure for a given head and then figuring the actual pressure for a different head in the same zone. The 5 point question was to figure out the pressure at the discharge side of the BF when two zones valves were both running at the same time.

Lots more but I won't bore you with any more details.

JimLewis
02-13-2009, 01:55 AM
So did you pass? You don't get to know the results of the test right away??

Sorry, here in OR the test is plenty difficult. Most people have to take the tests several times here too. But the nice thing is it's all on computer, and as soon as you're done, it tells you immediately whether you passed or failed.

In fact, it's even nicer because you need 75% to pass, so like if it's a 50 question test and you've already answered 38 questions correctly it stops the test and the screen says, "You have already answered enough questions correctly to pass this test. Would you like to continue or just stop here?" So it's kinda cool. You can actually finish the test early.

So what? Now you just gotta wait for them to mail you the results or how does it work? I thought you guys in TX were modern. When are you guys going to get with the program and modernize your testing a little bit?

mitchgo
02-13-2009, 01:58 AM
good job man!
Pretty darn impressive.

Armadillolawncare
02-13-2009, 02:59 AM
As far as finding out if you pass, it takes a while. The people that administer the test send them off to be graded. Actually since the answer sheets are all fill in the little bubble for your answer you would think it would get graded faster. The group that does the grading has 45 days to get them graded. They gave us a website we can start checking in about two weeks, so it is anywhere from two weeks to 45 days to find out if you passed. Even if you pass you don't get your license right away. They then issue you your license number which you then have to take and get your stamp made out of. This is the stamp that you need to put on just about anything you give to a customer, drawings, invoices, bids, check off lists, change orders. ET schedules, everything. After you get your stamp then you have to send in a copy of your letterhead with the stamp imprint on it. Once they recieve that, only then do they send you your license. So if all goes well and I passed all sections of the test I should actually be ready to start legally installing sometime around the end of the season in 2010. God forbid you fail a section or two(which apparently most do). You can't retake those sections for two months from the date of the original test. By that time you are sure to have forgotten most of what you learned since you are just sitting around not using the knowledge. In the mean time all the guys doing this without a license are installing without a care in the world since our town has no inspectors watching for illegal installers.

Kiril
02-13-2009, 09:35 AM
By that time you are sure to have forgotten most of what you learned since you are just sitting around not using the knowledge.

If you forget what you "learned" in 2 months, then you never really learned it to begin with.

TRILAWNCARE
02-13-2009, 09:50 AM
Every page in the test booklet said something to the effect that if you copy or posess any parts of this test without permission you can be punished with up to 1 year in jail or fined up to 10,000 dollars!


Many questions on BF theory along the lines of which BF devises can be used for toxic systems, which can be used for back siphonage, back pressure etc. Which can be buried.
Which BF device is best when using a booster pump. You had to figure the perception rate for a zone that you just ran for 10 minutes using catch cans. The amounts each can caught were given.
They gave you the following dimensions of a drip system and asked you to figure out gph, gpm, preception rate.
6' x 100' 4" offsets 18" rows 18" emitter spacing .6gph emmiters




Now that you have told the entire world what specific questions and values are on the test, you will be finding out your test results in a cell with Boots.....:laugh::laugh: Can you say "Prison Bit&("

135705

Wet_Boots
02-13-2009, 10:01 AM
You sure have a purty mouth.....

EagleLandscape
02-13-2009, 11:08 AM
welp, tried to get in for the feb 26th testing date, but it was booked. looks like I am end of march before I become a licensed irritator:)

TRILAWNCARE
02-13-2009, 11:12 AM
welp, tried to get in for the feb 26th testing date, but it was booked. looks like I am end of march before I become a licensed irritator:)

At least know you know whats on the test....

bcg
02-13-2009, 11:29 AM
It took about 10 days before my results showed up when I took it and they mailed me the license in the packet that had the thing I'm supposed to sign and send back with a sample of my stamp, that may have changed with the new law though. I never signed it or got a stamp made. On the rare occasion I do anything that I'd actually have to stamp, it's done electronically anyway so I just use an electronic image of what the stamp would look like. Since pretty much all our work is repairs, I don't have to stamp much. In fact, I haven't used it once since June or so.

bcg
02-13-2009, 11:31 AM
At least know you know whats on the test....


If you took Fisher's class, you know what's on the test. The designs they ask you to do and calculate hydraulics from are going to be pretty familiar to you...

EagleLandscape
02-13-2009, 12:55 PM
you need to stamp your invoice. just your plans.

there is a statement from the tceq, and a small list of other items that go on invoices, cards, emails, advertisements, but your stamp is only for plans.

EagleLandscape
02-13-2009, 12:59 PM
I took a class from Mark Ostertag. While they can't say "this exact question is on the test" they can say you will need to know things about which BF device is for high hazard, which device can be buried, which can be used with a booster pump on the oposing side of the bf device. etc.

i think this test will be easy.

Kiril
02-13-2009, 01:00 PM
I took a class from Mark Ostertag. While they can't say "this exact question is on the test" they can say you will need to know things about which BF device is for high hazard, which device can be buried, which can be used with a booster pump on the oposing side of the bf device. etc.

i think this test will be easy.

In other words they spoon feed you the information you need to know instead of teaching it. :dizzy:

Wet_Boots
02-13-2009, 01:15 PM
Like you couldn't write down the essential irrigation knowledge on a single file card. :)

Kiril
02-13-2009, 01:22 PM
Like you couldn't write down the essential irrigation knowledge on a single file card. :)

Heck for that matter, if you attend Boots school of irrigation all you need is a 3 variable equation. :rolleyes: :laugh:

Wet_Boots
02-13-2009, 02:09 PM
Heck for that matter, if you attend Boots school of irrigation all you need is a 3 variable equation. :rolleyes: :laugh:Keep laughing, Magnet Boy. Someday I'll find that #$@&%! calculator with the program it has. :hammerhead:

EagleLandscape
02-13-2009, 08:17 PM
most of the information ison design. probably 80% of the class was on design, and definitions of terms. nothing on how to glue pipe, schedule effeciently, talk about water saving devices, the test and the state requirements are pretty pathetic. but atleast our state tries to regulate the industry. i think only 3 or 4 states in the US reg irrigation. so we are just a lesser evil than most of you all:)

still nothing compares to being in the field. i have learned more talking with Peter a couple of times, than I would have if I took 500 hours of class room time.

Wet_Boots
02-13-2009, 08:21 PM
Just protect the water supply - the rest is window dressing.

EagleLandscape
02-13-2009, 08:31 PM
i wish the state would mandate yearly testing of back flow devices. they would do that if they were concerned about the water supply. they would also mandata pressure regulating heads and et controllers and ban water thirsty plants. but the state doesnt want to appear to be the bad guy, thats why they have contractors:)

Wet_Boots
02-13-2009, 08:34 PM
Pressure-regulating heads are for pikers. Good designers don't need any such crutches.

(exception made for water supplies with wide variations in pressure)

Mike Leary
02-13-2009, 09:44 PM
Pressure-regulating heads are for pikers

Yup..........agreed. :clapping: Those little PRS inserts that RB shlocks are junk. too.

Mike Leary
02-13-2009, 09:50 PM
With variations in pressure, a valve with PR would be a good idea. :rolleyes:

Kiril
02-14-2009, 07:57 AM
Pressure-regulating heads are for pikers. Good designers don't need any such crutches.

(exception made for water supplies with wide variations in pressure)

I will probably agree with this .... however having a consistent and known performance of your nozzle goes a long way.

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-14-2009, 08:26 AM
I will probably agree with this .... however having a consistent and known performance of your nozzle goes a long way.

I agree with this. The sam prs RB rotors really outshine the non prs as well.

dlee1996
02-14-2009, 08:51 AM
you need to stamp your invoice. just your plans.

there is a statement from the tceq, and a small list of other items that go on invoices, cards, emails, advertisements, but your stamp is only for plans.

§344.43.Seal Use.
(a)
Irrigators shall:
(1)
sign their legal name;
(2)
affix the seal above the irrigator's signature; and
(3)
include the date of signing (month, day, and year) of each document to which the seal is affixed.
(b)
The presence of the irrigator's seal displayed above the irrigator's signature and date on any document constitutes the acceptance of all professional responsibility for the document and the irrigation services performed in accordance with that document.
(c)
The irrigator will maintain, for three years, a copy of each document bearing the irrigator's seal.
(d)
Once a document containing a seal is issued, the seal may not be altered.
(e)
Irrigators shall not use or authorize the use of a seal on any plan or specification created by another irrigator unless the irrigator:
(1)
Reviews and makes changes to adapt the plan or specification to the specific site conditions and to address state and local requirements; and
(2)
Accepts full responsibility for any alterations to the plan or specification and any downstream consequences.
(f)
If an irrigator prepares a portion of a plan or specification, that portion of the design or specification prepared by the irrigator, or under the irrigator's supervision and seal, should be clearly identified.
(g)
Irrigators shall sign, seal and date the irrigation plan and specifications, contract, addenda or change orders, warranty, and the maintenance checklist.

You have to stamp and sign the above.

Armadillolawncare
02-25-2009, 12:28 AM
OK I said I would post again after I got my results of my test. I took the test on Feb 11 and today, 13 days later the results were posted online.
Design - 98
Installation - 88
Backflow Prevention - 90
Hydraulics - 96

I am very happy to have passed all sections. I have never been invloved in any type of irrigation install so virtually everything I know I learned from this class. I am fortunate enough to generate enough irrigation business from my current accounts that lately I have been giving the business to an irrigator that lets me come out and watch as he and his crew work on the jobs I refer to him. He is aware that I was working to get my irrigators license. I will still refer a lot of business to him leaving me with the easier stuff until I get more experience.

bobw
02-25-2009, 01:38 AM
Very impressive scores. I'm more impressed that you seem to recognize that real field work is required.

JimLewis
02-25-2009, 02:09 AM
Nice job!

So what's next? A name change? Armadillo Landscape & Irrigation?

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-25-2009, 06:10 AM
OK I said I would post again after I got my results of my test. I took the test on Feb 11 and today, 13 days later the results were posted online.
Design - 98
Installation - 88
Backflow Prevention - 90
Hydraulics - 96

I am very happy to have passed all sections. I have never been invloved in any type of irrigation install so virtually everything I know I learned from this class. I am fortunate enough to generate enough irrigation business from my current accounts that lately I have been giving the business to an irrigator that lets me come out and watch as he and his crew work on the jobs I refer to him. He is aware that I was working to get my irrigators license. I will still refer a lot of business to him leaving me with the easier stuff until I get more experience.

Good job Army. I sense you will enjoy this more as you learn. 521 locator and a remote for service should be on your "want list".

Sprinkus
02-25-2009, 08:58 AM
Congratulations!
Well done! :clapping:

Tom Tom
02-25-2009, 10:28 AM
I like that you guys find out your actual scores, instead of just a pass/fail thing.

And, congrats Armadillo.

Armadillolawncare
02-25-2009, 08:06 PM
Thanks everyone. In another 2 months or so I might actually have a license and get to begin irrigating. I have to wait for the official notification that I passed to arrive in the mail. Then I have to get a seal made with my irrigator’s number on it. Following that I have to stamp my seal on company letterhead and mail it back to them. Only then will they issue me my license. After receiving my license I can begin the trenching.

dlee1996
02-25-2009, 09:14 PM
Congrats on the test scores.I do not believe you have to send your stamp on a letter head anymore.

Armadillolawncare
02-26-2009, 12:33 AM
Good I hope not. In class they told us we have to.

dlee1996
02-26-2009, 08:28 AM
I believe TCEQ went away with sending a letterhead with your stamp on it. I could be wrong. I will call TCEQ today and find out for you.

JimLewis
02-26-2009, 01:12 PM
Thanks everyone. In another 2 months or so I might actually have a license and get to begin irrigating. I have to wait for the official notification that I passed to arrive in the mail. Then I have to get a seal made with my irrigator’s number on it. Following that I have to stamp my seal on company letterhead and mail it back to them. Only then will they issue me my license. After receiving my license I can begin the trenching.

I'm sorry. Did you say you lived in Texas??? The last bastion of free enterprise and liberty? Sounds more like mainland China with all the bureaucratic hoops you have to jump through. WTF is up with all that? If you said you were from California or some other communist regime I'd understand. But Texas? Wow. Things sure have changed.....

EagleLandscape
02-26-2009, 03:13 PM
Dont think you have to send in letterhead with stamp on it prior to getting your permit.

the seal isnt used much unless you are doing designs or installs. but we do all repairs, and dont ever use it. now, if we did a contract for an install, then yes. But we just do invoices after the job is done, so no needy seal.

I think these rules are good. It's good that contractors can't run wild doign whatever they please. I think it's been a highly irresponsible practice, and I am in favor of the majority of the rules. i think backflows should be tested yearly, that would generate exponential amounts of revenue for us. we do work for property management companies in which could inspect all of their devices, I'm talking thousands and thousands. Wouldnt that be a nice set of change?

Mike Leary
02-26-2009, 03:44 PM
i think backflows should be tested yearly, that would generate exponential amounts of revenue for us. we do work for property management companies in which could inspect all of their devices, I'm talking thousands and thousands. Wouldnt that be a nice set of change?

Boy howdy, do I agree about backflow! I understood the "Clean Water Act"mandated the States to have a comprehensive cross-connection program.
What a crock! Shades of Suffock County. :hammerhead::hammerhead:

JimLewis
02-26-2009, 06:19 PM
Dont think you have to send in letterhead with stamp on it prior to getting your permit.

the seal isnt used much unless you are doing designs or installs. but we do all repairs, and dont ever use it. now, if we did a contract for an install, then yes. But we just do invoices after the job is done, so no needy seal.

I think these rules are good. It's good that contractors can't run wild doign whatever they please. I think it's been a highly irresponsible practice, and I am in favor of the majority of the rules. i think backflows should be tested yearly, that would generate exponential amounts of revenue for us. we do work for property management companies in which could inspect all of their devices, I'm talking thousands and thousands. Wouldnt that be a nice set of change?

Yah, I am for that stuff too. But I am talking about the ridiculous paperwork they make you go through. Here in Oregon, you pass the test and if you have insurance and a bond you can start installing that very same day, as long as you make sure you're all registered with the state and your paperwork is in order.

None of this seal, stamp, mailing off certifications, whatever. What a bunch of useless bureaucratic bullcrap! If you're licensed and tested to do the work, that should be enough. I think your seal or stamp or whatever is a waste of time and money. If guys doing work aren't licensed, it's easy enough to tell without asking for some silly seal of approval stamp.

Armadillolawncare
02-26-2009, 08:08 PM
I think that the point of the seal is to be able to track back who installed a system.

Wet_Boots
02-26-2009, 08:39 PM
I think that the point of the seal is to be able to track back who installed a system.Why, so future generations can know who was a scrub?

JimLewis
02-26-2009, 09:08 PM
I guess we just do things simpler here in our state. See here we can tell who installed the system by just pulling the backflow permit. Whatever company pulled the permit is gonna be the same company who installed it.

Not that it would ever matter. What would I do with that information anyway? Call them up and chew them out for not installing it to my liking????

Sprinkus
02-27-2009, 07:02 AM
Not that it would ever matter. What would I do with that information anyway? Call them up and chew them out for not installing it to my liking????

Out here we git us up a posse and string up them crappy installers!

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-27-2009, 07:11 AM
I always liked the seal part. I still remember that first seal stamp on a design back in 1980. I also had a squeeze seal that left the paper permanently damaged. Not anybody can get a seal and a design requires a professional irrigator. It's not communistic but has the sweet smell of a privileged guild.

Armadillolawncare
02-27-2009, 09:25 AM
I knew there was a guild!!

Mike Leary
02-27-2009, 09:32 AM
It's not communistic but has the sweet smell of a privileged guild.

Do you get to carry torches and wear funny hats?

JimLewis
02-27-2009, 10:49 AM
I always find it intriguing how people justify bureaucracy. Some people in my state always find some argument to support whatever bureaucratic red tape the state is making us go through.

The problem is most of the time their arguments sound good. They make it seem as if it's solving a huge problem. But then when I look to other states that don't have the same red tape, I just don't see the problems they're talking about. So it's as if someone came up with some grand idea to solve a problem that wasn't really so much of a problem and then everyone just "went along with it", without really questioning the need for it.

So what is the big problem that Texas has solved with this seal thing and the way you all do licensing that the rest of the states still have?

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-27-2009, 12:18 PM
Dealing with water is a bigger deal in Texas than Oregon. It is a limiting resource for us. The State takes a very heavy handed approach to anything involved with water. I don't think yard irrigation will even be allowed in Texas within 30 years.

Kiril
02-27-2009, 03:06 PM
The State takes a very heavy handed approach to anything involved with water.

And that is the understatement of the year. :clapping:

Instead of enacting real measures that are guaranteed to save water, they create a bunch of bureaucratic B.S. that will essentially go nowhere. Mark my words .... this whole new regulation mess will be getting a major overhaul once they realize it is not working.

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-27-2009, 03:45 PM
The only measure that truly saves water is a price jack up. Everything else is window dressing.

AI Inc
02-27-2009, 05:42 PM
The only measure that truly saves water is a price jack up. Everything else is window dressing.

There is no incentive like a financial one!

Kiril
02-28-2009, 09:39 AM
The only measure that truly saves water is a price jack up.

........ or stop using it to maintain regionally inappropriate landscapes. :clapping:

Fine Spray
04-13-2009, 10:48 PM
I took a class from Mark Ostertag. While they can't say "this exact question is on the test" they can say you will need to know things about which BF device is for high hazard, which device can be buried, which can be used with a booster pump on the oposing side of the bf device. etc.

i think this test will be easy.


Hey John, I'm taking his class also. What should I expect?

Armadillolawncare
04-14-2009, 01:53 AM
Pay attention in class. If irrigation is new to you like it was to me then do a lot of studying. While John says he thinks the test will be easy it was not for me. I spent two weeks in the library studying and called my instructor with questions prior to the test. Know your backflow devices and know how to figure hydraulics with multiple heads running at the same time.

FIMCO-MEISTER
04-14-2009, 05:03 AM
Pay attention in class. If irrigation is new to you like it was to me then do a lot of studying. While John says he thinks the test will be easy it was not for me. I spent two weeks in the library studying and called my instructor with questions prior to the test. Know your backflow devices and know how to figure hydraulics with multiple heads running at the same time.

FS I would definitely follow Army's advice. John's may be accurate for him but could also lead to false confidence. People do fail that test. It is not a given.

EagleLandscape
04-14-2009, 08:11 AM
The test is by no means a legitimate way of qualifying someone as an irrigator. Taking the test proves you studied your material, and that you know what was taught in the class.

The class doesn't teach you to be an irrigator, just gives you the information to take the test. The class was interesting, i learned some new stuff in there (didnt known the methods for sizing pipe) (even though I can size the pipe in the field and still be under 5fps).

Test wasn't bad. Took me about 3 hours to knock it out. I was glad it was all over. LI 17,550:) over-n-out

EagleLandscape
04-14-2009, 08:21 AM
that sounded harsh, didnt mean it towards anyone, just i think the whole process of class/test could be improved.

congrats on taking the class, and taking the test. good luck on it!

unit28
04-14-2009, 10:02 AM
jwing, depends on whose class you take. Only thing that wasn't coverd in mine was how to hold a shovel.
I'm glad I took it from the one who wrote the book.

know your Williams and Hazen calcs FS?
I took the test back in the 90's....I came out of there dizzy.:dizzy:
I was done in 4 but back-tracked and took a few breaks. You need a few breaks or you will puke.

I can't say enough about Mr. Lewis. I went through his 40hr class and review.
Then took his BPAT class and other CEU courses. I was also on the LSIA Team. I was young and dumb but he never made me feel that way. He knows how to read you like a book, a sure sign of seceret service training.
Although, he says he was just a cook on a Naval ship.

Fine Spray
04-14-2009, 10:04 AM
Thanks for the info guys. I'm not a newbie to irrigation, Just need to get licensed. :)

dlee1996
04-14-2009, 08:00 PM
I can't say enough about Mr. Lewis. I went through his 40hr class and review.
Then took his BPAT class and other CEU courses. I was also on the LSIA Team. I was young and dumb but he never made me feel that way. He knows how to read you like a book, a sure sign of seceret service training.
Although, he says he was just a cook on a Naval ship.

Jerry Lewis is a very good instructor. He will not make you look like a idiot while he explains stuff to you.