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View Full Version : System needs master valve - WTD?


OKSooner
02-11-2009, 03:10 PM
I did a project for a residential customer that involved moving a couple of zones around an area where he plans to build a new patio in his back yard.

It was an old system with several slow leaks in it.

I visited last week and it hit me: No master valve...

So, I'm looking at going under his sidewalk and laying about 100' of trench out to the backflow to install a master valve.

Question is this: Is there some kind of reasonable alternative to the trenching and digging under the sidewalk, like some kind of battery-powered RF gizmo that talks to the controller?

If it turns out that cutting a trench and going under the sidewalk is what I have to do, I can do it. I'd just rather show up and install something and make it work. TIA

Tony Clifton
02-11-2009, 03:26 PM
Master Valve is a good idea, but why not repair/replace the bad valves?
Also depending on how the system is setup you may not need to go all the way to the backflow.

Without A Drought
02-11-2009, 07:56 PM
...find and fix the leaks.

bicmudpuppy
02-11-2009, 08:17 PM
NEVER recommend "hiding" a leak. It WILL bite you in the arse. Now, back to the MV. MV are good and if the customer wants one installed, why not put the MV near the "first" valve on the system. If adding wire is going to be prohibitive, use an add-a-zone and the hot wire from that first valve. If the system is getting old, having a MV to prevent flooding when another valve fails is fine. NOT FIXING the problems is a bid deal and if the customer won't pay to fix the system, then TAKE A WALK. You will thank yourself down the road.

CAPT Stream Rotar
02-11-2009, 08:19 PM
NEVER recommend "hiding" a leak. It WILL bite you in the arse. Now, back to the MV. MV are good and if the customer wants one installed, why not put the MV near the "first" valve on the system. If adding wire is going to be prohibitive, use an add-a-zone and the hot wire from that first valve. If the system is getting old, having a MV to prevent flooding when another valve fails is fine. NOT FIXING the problems is a bid deal and if the customer won't pay to fix the system, then TAKE A WALK. You will thank yourself down the road.


sadly bic the people in my market are more put a band aid on it then have them pay 3 G's

unlike most of the markets you have been in we have a fair amount of water available....so it costs less..so people want cheap fix rather than an overhaul

bicmudpuppy
02-11-2009, 08:24 PM
sadly bic the people in my market are more put a band aid on it then have them pay 3 G's

unlike most of the markets you have been in we have a fair amount of water available....so it costs less..so people want cheap fix rather than an overhaul

And when that leak you couldn't find or they wouldn't pay you to find ends up under a piece of asphalt that caves in and kills someone, you think that you will be excluded by the family of the deceased just because you "told them it should be fixed"? WALK AWAY. I have seen the 10'x10' parking lot sink hole. It ain't pretty and they will try to blame you. Even if you beat the rap, it will cost you a lot more than if you give them a proposal to fix it and when they say "no", WALK AWAY.

CAPT Stream Rotar
02-11-2009, 08:28 PM
And when that leak you couldn't find or they wouldn't pay you to find ends up under a piece of asphalt that caves in and kills someone, you think that you will be excluded by the family of the deceased just because you "told them it should be fixed"? WALK AWAY. I have seen the 10'x10' parking lot sink hole. It ain't pretty and they will try to blame you. Even if you beat the rap, it will cost you a lot more than if you give them a proposal to fix it and when they say "no", WALK AWAY.


Bic not sure about your area but here half of the people on cape with sprinks just want a quick fix...

which sucks...but i get paid by the hour.....

mitchgo
02-11-2009, 08:34 PM
wait .
I thought you couldn't use add-a-zone to install a master valve? am I wrong?

I personally don't agree with installing a mv at the first valve. doesn't make much sense.

CAPT Stream Rotar
02-11-2009, 08:36 PM
wait .
I thought you couldn't use add-a-zone to install a master valve? am I wrong?

I personally don't agree with installing a mv at the first valve. doesn't make much sense.

I hate this but in other instances I deal with people like this daily

EagleLandscape
02-11-2009, 09:08 PM
you can use add a zone with MV. makes sense. there no relay. so why not.

bicmudpuppy
02-11-2009, 09:09 PM
wait .
I thought you couldn't use add-a-zone to install a master valve? am I wrong?

I personally don't agree with installing a mv at the first valve. doesn't make much sense.

Add-a-zone will operate a MV and zone valve with no conflicts. Why not put the MV just before the zone valve closest to the BF? In very few cases are we talking about more than 15-20' of main line that the MV is not protecting. If it bothers you that much, cut in 20' of wire from the add-a-zone to the MV.

ARGOS
02-11-2009, 09:24 PM
NOT FIXING the problems is a bid deal and if the customer won't pay to fix the system, then TAKE A WALK. You will thank yourself down the road.

Best piece of advice today. You do a bandaid you OWN a bandaid.

OKSooner
02-12-2009, 10:15 AM
NEVER recommend "hiding" a leak. It WILL bite you in the arse. Now, back to the MV. MV are good and if the customer wants one installed, why not put the MV near the "first" valve on the system. If adding wire is going to be prohibitive, use an add-a-zone and the hot wire from that first valve. If the system is getting old, having a MV to prevent flooding when another valve fails is fine. NOT FIXING the problems is a bid deal and if the customer won't pay to fix the system, then TAKE A WALK. You will thank yourself down the road.

Hate to show my rookie-ness, but... What's add-a-zone? Got a link for it?

Mike Leary
02-12-2009, 10:18 AM
Best piece of advice today. You do a bandaid you OWN a bandaid.

I used to beat that into my guys on a new service call; "always wear surgical gloves so they can't trace our fingerprints."

TRILAWNCARE
02-12-2009, 10:59 AM
Hate to show my rookie-ness, but... What's add-a-zone? Got a link for it?


Add-A-Zone (http://thesource-online.com/Add-A-Zone.pdf)

duwaprod
02-12-2009, 11:07 AM
Hate to show my rookie-ness, but... What's add-a-zone? Got a link for it?

An Irrigander 4 Expander or an Irrigander 8 Expander will work as well. Connect the MV to a field wire and use the Irrigander expander to control the valves using the field wires remaining after installing the MV. The advantage of using the Irrigander expander is that it will give you control over additional valves where the Add-a-zone will only allow you to contol the MV. The Irrigander 4 expander and Irrigander 8 expander are cheaper than an Add-a-zone as well.

Irrigander.com (http://www.irrigander.com)

--Don

Mike Leary
02-12-2009, 11:11 AM
Here we go again. :dizzy:

rlpsystems
02-12-2009, 08:04 PM
WOW. I now have seen/read it all(most).