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View Full Version : Whats required to CDL over 26,000lbs?


Ramairfreak98ss
02-15-2009, 11:37 PM
Figuring that even my dually f350 and 14k dump trailer are able to pass the cdl mark of 26k fully loaded etc, what is needed in NJ?

I know there is a test you can take and i can apply for a CDL license designation to be able to tow heavier trailers... is there anything else?

My highest capacity trailers are 12 and 14k limits, the trucks "vin tags" show 11,400 and 13,500 for the two F350s.

Im looking at a gooseneck, and was set on just a 14k to keep it simple. But im going to look at one with still two axles but their 10k axles and the trailer has a gvw of 25,900, figuring Kaufman says 20k on tires, 5,900 max on gooseneck of truck. I know even fully loaded this thing would be fine on the dually f350 with 4.30 gears, but id need a CDL. Id be around 35,000 if it was really fully loaded for the truck and trailer.

I'd rarely ever have that much weight on it unless im picking up pallets of sod, salt, landscape block, heavy trees etc.

Anyone else get a CDL just to run around with a trailer that is too heavy to stay under the limit?

CLARK LAWN
02-16-2009, 08:27 AM
it does not matter how much weight you haul it goes by how much the truck is rated to haul by the mfg. if you have an F350 with a GVWR of 13,500 and pull a trailer with a GVWR of 14,000 that is a total of 27,500. you would need a class"A" CDL.
Class"A" any combo of vehicles with a GVWR of 26000 or more with a trailer over 10K
Class"B" single vehicle with a GVWR of 26000 or more trailer under 10K
Class"C" under 26000 hauling hazmat or or more than 16 people

newtostone
02-16-2009, 08:33 AM
You can get a special trailer endorsement which will allow you to drive that specific combo.

Check around this site for the rules.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/registration-licensing.htm

newtostone
02-16-2009, 08:37 AM
it does not matter how much weight you haul it goes by how much the truck is rated to haul by the mfg. if you have an F350 with a GVWR of 13,500 and pull a trailer with a GVWR of 14,000 that is a total of 27,500. you would need a class"A" CDL.
Class"A" any combo of vehicles with a GVWR of 26000 or more with a trailer over 10K
Class"B" single vehicle with a GVWR of 26000 or more trailer under 10K
Class"C" under 26000 hauling hazmat or or more than 16 people



In New York we no longer have a "C" class which is a commercial driver anymore. I believe that was early 2000 when they changed that. You are no able to drive up to a 26,000k rig or combo before needing anything. Now something else to consider, check your local laws but I am pretty sure anyone who has gotten their license after 2005? not too sure of the year must have a med card while driving a commercially registered vehicle.

AintNoFun
02-16-2009, 08:47 AM
it does not matter how much weight you haul it goes by how much the truck is rated to haul by the mfg. if

you can be overweight in your vehicles and it will push you into CDL class.. my guys were running a 450 and a landscape trailer one time, they pulled out the portable scales we were like 500 pounds over CDl they would not let the truck move unto someone with a class a drove it away or they towed it...

Petr51488
02-16-2009, 02:23 PM
it does not matter how much weight you haul it goes by how much the truck is rated to haul by the mfg. if you have an F350 with a GVWR of 13,500 and pull a trailer with a GVWR of 14,000 that is a total of 27,500. you would need a class"A" CDL.
Class"A" any combo of vehicles with a GVWR of 26000 or more with a trailer over 10K
Class"B" single vehicle with a GVWR of 26000 or more trailer under 10K
Class"C" under 26000 hauling hazmat or or more than 16 people

I'm pretty sure they go by combined gvwr. I don't think they give a crap what the truck could or could not tow (truck/trailer wise) It also doesnt give you your tow rating on the door like the gvwr gets shown. Yes, if you have a 5k load in the back of your 2500 pickup you'll be overweight, but not if you have an empty pickup thats within its own gvwr and a trailer thats properly weighted in its gvwr. I can have nothing in my pickup and be under the 9200 gvwr, and have 14k in my dump trailer (granted my gvwr is 14k on the dump) and be perfectly fine. One thing in NJ is that on the registration for commercial trailers you don't have a gvwr on the registration, so that goes out the window. I have never seen the scales used on truck/trailers but rather only on those commercial cargo trucks with gvwr stated on the door.

Gravel Rat
02-16-2009, 03:00 PM
Most of the time the DOT will go by your licenced gvw.

Ramairfreak98ss
02-16-2009, 03:59 PM
Most of the time the DOT will go by your licenced gvw.

on your registrations right?

My "red" 06 f350 was 19k... thats to handle the weight capacity of any trailers i pull though, thats what i was told back when i got that truck at least...

Now i see tons of F350s, all 10k, 11k, 12k etc, and f550s that are 17.5 or 19.5k ratings at 14k, 15k, 18k lol. I mean they get filled with NO trailer and theyll be over right?

my dump trailer says "zero" weight since its supposed to be taken from the truck, how does that figure in then? If my 06 red f350 is 11,400 in the door, and zero for the trailer with a registered weight of 19k?

This is going to really suck with the new f350 then if the 13.5k plus 14k is over the 26k mark loaded, since i'd have to be the one driving it 100% of the darn time and have to go with our mulching/maintenance crew the whole spring season :(

The idea was so i wouldnt be so overloaded with the single rear wheel f350 and now a little more truck capacity just because of a larger rear axle and im over :/

Dirt Digger2
02-16-2009, 06:20 PM
simple answer....

go to the DMV and take your written CLASS A test, you don't need to worry about the airbrake test, doubles, etc...just class A

schedule your road test...pass...and no worries

no offense to you NY guys...but don't listen to them...NJ is a lot like PA for drivers licenses...from experiences and word of mouth NY has some very strange rules and laws regarding a CDL, so what they say might not be the case in NJ...however once you get a CDL it is recognized in ALL states...along with it comes more responsibility but thats another thread


EDIT: to clear up some misconceptions on this thread...coming from someone who has actually read the book from cover to cover...the CDL requirement is required for all combinations greater then 26,000lbs and if trailer GVW is over 10,000lbs...

so an f250 pulling a 12K trailer does need a CDL even though it might be under 26,000 combo

Petr51488
02-16-2009, 07:02 PM
so an f250 pulling a 12K trailer does need a CDL even though it might be under 26,000 combo

Then in that case everyone should be driving with a cdl. I looked at the manual before and said if the truck is over a certain gvwr

Class A: License is necessary for the operation of tractor trailers or any truck or trailer with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is more than 10,000 pounds. The Class A license also allows the motorist to operate all vehicles in the class B, C and D categories, provided the motorist has qualified for all the proper extra endorsements.

So, my 9,200 gvwr (2500) truck and 14k trailer does not require a cdl.

ConstSvcs
02-16-2009, 07:18 PM
Wow.......I'm going thru the same thing now....in CT ! My FRR has a GVW of 19,500# and the trailer I've been using is a 5T registered at 9980#'s to avoid the CDL / A testing.

Unfortunately my CT 322 weighs 8,600 lbs and is overweight on my non cdl trailer. So now I'm in the same boat.

My question..........(which I will get answered tomorrow when I stop by the DMV office)

is " can take the test in my non-CDL class truck and 16k trailer since this is the vehicle and trailer combination that is in question."

I'll let you guys know what my local DMV official says.

DirtDigger2 is correct with all his input except the note about the 2500 and 14K trailer ( law says any combination over 26,000K )and the acceptance of a Class A nationwide is the way to go and I'm guessing that it will be the path I'll need to take....minus the airbrake portion of the test.

PerfectEarth
02-16-2009, 07:27 PM
It's not too hard. The key word here is "provided".... the trailer HAS to be over 10,000# in the combination for a CDL to be needed.

For example, I have a 19,000# F-550. My trailer is 12,000# (this equals 31,000#).... I have a Class A.

HAD I purchased a 10,000# trailer, I would not need a Class A. YES, my combo would still be OVER 26,000 - BUT the trailer itself is not over 10,000#

It's a funny rule when you get close with a 450 or 550 truck... but it's all about that trailer GVWR.

PerfectEarth
02-16-2009, 07:31 PM
My question..........(which I will get answered tomorrow when I stop by the DMV office)

is " can take the test in my non-CDL class truck and 16k trailer since this is the vehicle and trailer combination that is in question."

YES. It is required to test in the combo that you will most likely be driving and yours is fine. Doesn't matter that the truck is under CDL.

Petr51488
02-16-2009, 07:35 PM
YES. It is required to test in the combo that you will most likely be driving and yours is fine. Doesn't matter that the truck is under CDL.

Really? So could i use my 2500hd and my 14k trailer even though its under cdl? I know for a regular driving test you need the e-brake in the middle, are there any rules for the truck your using?

PerfectEarth
02-16-2009, 07:47 PM
Petr- what is the GVWR of your 2500hd? You over 26,000# combo? Or Did I get lazy on reading the whole thread? :)

EDIT-- ok, ok 9200. You need no Class A. You combo is not over 26,000#

Petr51488
02-16-2009, 08:21 PM
Petr- what is the GVWR of your 2500hd? You over 26,000# combo? Or Did I get lazy on reading the whole thread? :)

EDIT-- ok, ok 9200. You need no Class A. You combo is not over 26,000#

Yea, my truck is 9200, but my trailer is 12k, not the 14k i thought it was. Either way i'm under, but if i wanted to get my cdl, would i be able to use my truck/trailer combo? or do i have to get something thats over 26k?

Dirt Digger2
02-16-2009, 08:46 PM
argue with me if you want...but i have my class A...i won't be the one trying to explain to the nice DOT officer why i am pulling a 12K trailer without one

for a better explanation I will quote the back of my drivers license...i think it is the best explanation i have heard anywhere...and i quote

"CLASS: A - Combination > 26,000 / Tow >10,000
RST:
ENDORSE: N - Tank"

clipfert
02-16-2009, 09:14 PM
petr51488

You will need a Class A if your trailer is registered for more than 10,000 no matter what you pull it with ie F150 f250 f350 f450 f550. The trailer itself determines you will need a Class A. If your combination is over 26001 you will need a Class A also. I found out myself at MAHTS last winter when I asked an instructor from a truck driving school that had a booth there. Oddly enough I asked if I could take the driving part of the test with my F250 or F450 with my 14K dump trailer and he said yes. Instead I had my dump trailer registered at 9900 lbs. If you still don't believe myself or any of the other posters telling you you need a Class A to pull your 14k dump around drive your setup to you closest NJ DOT weigh station and politely ask the first State Trooper you see. Don't forget to arrange for a cab, you will most likely need it for a few months while your license is suspended.

GravelyNut
02-16-2009, 10:18 PM
Short version of a corrected CDL Handbook page from Florida. Last NO on the bottom means none needed. Correction was the top YES and NO.

Ramairfreak98ss
02-16-2009, 10:48 PM
Then in that case everyone should be driving with a cdl. I looked at the manual before and said if the truck is over a certain gvwr

Class A: License is necessary for the operation of tractor trailers or any truck or trailer with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is more than 10,000 pounds. The Class A license also allows the motorist to operate all vehicles in the class B, C and D categories, provided the motorist has qualified for all the proper extra endorsements.

So, my 9,200 gvwr (2500) truck and 14k trailer does not require a cdl.

yeah it does, thats what he was saying, i think it is true.. If you read your post, the "vehicle being towed IE: your 14k trailer, is more than 10,000lbs right? So then your cdl class a is necessary.

Im in the same boat... now i know why my 24' carmate heavy duty enclosed trailer has 14k worth of tires, 12k worth of axles and yet its hitch rating is #9990 lol. Ive had 6600lbs of block in that trailer for one landscape job last year, and all equipment and my small tractor, was plenty over 12k total and it still could have taken more.

It sure sucks though, if i am not the one driving our f350s with the dump trailer this year, we will need to have a CDL driver 5 days a week just to go out and do mulching.


maybe this is why there are so many companies with f550s, truck alone and theyre fully loaded under 20k :/

Ramairfreak98ss
02-16-2009, 11:01 PM
actually, now thinking of it, last feb when the DOT guy checked my 11,400lb f350, he said i was ok to pull the 14k dump trailer since both are under 26k... now that makes me wonder, in NJ its a state police officer that comes out to check everything over for certification

GravelyNut
02-16-2009, 11:06 PM
petr51488

You will need a Class A if your trailer is registered for more than 10,000 no matter what you pull it with ie F150 f250 f350 f450 f550. The trailer itself determines you will need a Class A. If your combination is over 26001 you will need a Class A also. I found out myself at MAHTS last winter when I asked an instructor from a truck driving school that had a booth there. Oddly enough I asked if I could take the driving part of the test with my F250 or F450 with my 14K dump trailer and he said yes. Instead I had my dump trailer registered at 9900 lbs. If you still don't believe myself or any of the other posters telling you you need a Class A to pull your 14k dump around drive your setup to you closest NJ DOT weigh station and politely ask the first State Trooper you see. Don't forget to arrange for a cab, you will most likely need it for a few months while your license is suspended.
What they would get you for is not the 14K needing a CDL with a 150/1500, 250/2500, 350/3500 but that you would be exceeding the GCWR of your tow vehicle. The CDL requirement kicks in at 26001lbs GCWR, not the trailers 10K+. Unless you are hauling placarded quantities of HAZMAT items or passengers. Doubles and triples require a Class A and Double and Triple Endorcement but again, you're driving a semi.

From NJ's book. A tractor trailer, or,
A truck and trailer with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the GCWR of the vehicle being towed is more than 10,000 pounds, you need a Class A license. Note it has to exceed 26000 pounds GCWR to get you to the 10000+ pound rating for the trailer. Class B gets the same 26000+ pound GCWR but limits you to 10K or less trailer. Again if under 26K GCWR you don't need a Class B.

But as always, check with your local Depts before towing.

Ramairfreak98ss
02-16-2009, 11:06 PM
clipfert... i know there are crazy high fines if you get pulled over or weighed... but why would they yank your license? your personal license too? So because of a technicality or failure to pay more for a cdl you lost your license for months?

I've never heard of any such thing, especially if some of us have spotless records then suddenly its revoked? One of the qualifications for a CDL is "no recent license suspensions" so then you cant get a CDL anyway? How is that ?

GravelyNut
02-16-2009, 11:08 PM
actually, now thinking of it, last feb when the DOT guy checked my 11,400lb f350, he said i was ok to pull the 14k dump trailer since both are under 26k... now that makes me wonder, in NJ its a state police officer that comes out to check everything over for certification

While I was typing you were posting.:) See the quote above that covers it.

CLARK LAWN
02-16-2009, 11:48 PM
if you get cuaght it is big BIG fines, if it is an employee driving both you and he get hit with fines. You will loose your license at the first offense. if you are in doubt it would be better off to just get it.

clipfert
02-17-2009, 12:54 AM
ramairfreak98ss

Check out this link: Table 2 #'s (6) and (8)

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?chunkKey=090163348002386d&keyword=driving%20without%20cdl

Looking Good Lawn Service
02-17-2009, 01:37 AM
lol....the CDL enforcement is mainly for big trucks, not landscapers, C'mon...state troopers are worried about 80k lbs driving around perhaps killing someone, sooo they check log books, load papers, ect, and you...but very important is your AIR BRAKES, most of the time out of adjustment and can fail in a accident...they are not hunting for 2500's or F350's with trailers,lmao.... This is coming from a CDL holder and a family of truck drivers...sometimes they dont even check the big rigs, never mind F350's with little tiny trailers....the big trucks have more GVW in one tandem axle than two f350's with lil 12k trailers combined lol....how bout some 46K rears or even 58K in some of the heavy haulers

clipfert
02-17-2009, 02:02 AM
lol....the CDL enforcement is mainly for big trucks, not landscapers, C'mon...state troopers are worried about 80k lbs driving around perhaps killing someone, sooo they check log books, load papers, ect, and you...but very important is your AIR BRAKES, most of the time out of adjustment and can fail in a accident...they are not hunting for 2500's or F350's with trailers,lmao.... This is coming from a CDL holder and a family of truck drivers...sometimes they dont even check the big rigs, never mind F350's with little tiny trailers....the big trucks have more GVW in one tandem axle than two f350's with lil 12k trailers combined lol....how bout some 46K rears or even 58K in some of the heavy haulers

Great advice from BJ McKay and his best freind Bear or is it Smokey and the Bandit? Hey Rubber duck please don't start singing "Convoy"!:laugh:

topsites
02-17-2009, 02:46 AM
You need to check with the NJ DOT / DMV, it's different from one state to the next.

lol....the CDL enforcement is mainly for big trucks, not landscapers, they are not hunting for 2500's or F350's with trailers,lmao....

Uhh....
If you're out there every day and the GVWR rating of your vehicle + trailer exceeds the state limitations
I would highly advise getting a CDL but at the least check into the requirements.
Yes, landscapers can and do, and have gotten pulled over for this.

Yes, by DOT, no kidding.
Some states 10 thousand pounds is the limit.

It may not happen everyday, I am sure it doesn't, more than likely it also won't happen on a residential street,
but get on a state route or get around a state trooper, then it really doesn't matter when all it takes is one time.

newtostone
02-17-2009, 07:13 AM
argue with me if you want...but i have my class A...i won't be the one trying to explain to the nice DOT officer why i am pulling a 12K trailer without one

for a better explanation I will quote the back of my drivers license...i think it is the best explanation i have heard anywhere...and i quote

"CLASS: A - Combination > 26,000 / Tow >10,000
RST:
ENDORSE: N - Tank"


So I am from Ny and my rules may be different. I am also not sure how long ago you got your class A but that is no longer the case. The rules changed a few years ago in which case it may be good to check up on all the new rules and regs, as they are changing at a rapid rate. I know my brother got his Hazmat and the rules after 911 went crazy. Well not crazy just not how they were back in the day.

I even keep a printout of the DMV rules change notice in my glove box because I tow a 12k dump trailer and didn't want to worry about that issue.

newtostone
02-17-2009, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looking Good Lawn Service
lol....the CDL enforcement is mainly for big trucks, not landscapers, they are not hunting for 2500's or F350's with trailers,lmao....


Very wrong, a commercial truck is a commercial truck. And we all have the same rules and fines.

AWJ Services
02-17-2009, 07:24 AM
Guys the Federal Laws are set in stone.
Dirt Digger is 100% correct.Go to the Federal site and they are listed.
You will find that each state has different tolerances and adjustment to the rules.
The over 10k trailer weight is one of them.Here in Ga it is not enforced but it is against the Federal law.
Towing capacity is not an enforceable violation since most commercial vehicles do not have a towing capacity.
Also will add that if you have the trailers downgraded(GVWR wise) and you are overweight you will then be in violation of 2 things.No Cdl and overweight.
You also need to ignore GVWR as far as safe weight and go by axle weight.
If any axle exceeds there safe weight limit due to improperly positioned loads then you will be in violation as well.


Very wrong, a commercial truck is a commercial truck. And we all have the same rules and fines.

100% correct.

GravelyNut
02-17-2009, 07:26 AM
You need to check with the NJ DOT / DMV, it's different from one state to the next.



Uhh....
If you're out there every day and the GVWR rating of your vehicle + trailer exceeds the state limitations
I would highly advise getting a CDL but at the least check into the requirements.
Yes, landscapers can and do, and have gotten pulled over for this.

Yes, by DOT, no kidding.
Some states 10 thousand pounds is the limit.

It may not happen everyday, I am sure it doesn't, more than likely it also won't happen on a residential street,
but get on a state route or get around a state trooper, then it really doesn't matter when all it takes is one time.
Shoot, you don't even have to go out on a State highway down here at times. They'll get you on county roads. And they look for things like duallys with large equipment trailers too. $$$$$$$ is the motive in some cases.

topsites
02-17-2009, 07:51 AM
This is coming from a CDL holder and a family of truck drivers...sometimes they dont even check the big rigs, never mind F350's with little tiny trailers....the big trucks have more GVW in one tandem axle than two f350's with lil 12k trailers combined lol....how bout some 46K rears or even 58K in some of the heavy haulers

One more thing ...

That little tiny trailer behind my D-2500 weighs 1500 empty, and I know you're still laughing so listen while I tell you
that all single axle trailers I know of come without brakes from the factory, and most owners never install aftermarket.
That's right, a LOT of landscape trailers don't have brakes!
No, because to install decent brakes would cost as much as the trailer did, just about.

My truck weighs 4 or 5,000 pounds empty, add about 500 to a thousand pounds for the truck box, the tools within,
and all the crap inside the bed, to include spare tire and jack and 2-cyclers and another, portable toolbox.

Then I load my Ztr which adds another 1,500 pounds and if I load a Wb behind that I just added another 300 then
I sit in the cab and add 200 more for a nice even 2000.

So I am plowing down the road with a total weight of 8 or 9 thousand pounds and I have four tires with brakes
that have to stop all of this, only the rear brakes have ABS.
Tell me, if I made your car two to three times as heavy as it is now, would you have any issues stopping?

Do you realize there are days 18 wheelers out accelerate and out brake me?

Yes, and I'm hardly at half the puny little pickup truck's max. rated tow capacity.

....
No, they are serious about this.

Looking Good Lawn Service
02-17-2009, 09:16 PM
hmmm, interesting, I totally understand your point and respect it. However, you do see mine aswell. Best bet is to maintain your truck and whatever trailer you use in safe condition and drive slow and you will be fine. No truck should be going over 60 according to towing guides with small trailers anyways, ie(non class 8)....ohh, and I totally understand your point with single axle trailers not having brakes, that is why I prefer to buy tandems even if I dont need them, they are much easier on the truck.

PerfectEarth
02-17-2009, 09:43 PM
Ok, I'm gonna argue :) with Dirt Digger. (have my Class A as well, for reasons I've stated already)

I don't see what is unclear about this sentence, (This Federal law applies in KY also and I assume MOST every State for a Class A)---->


a) a combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Straight from the PA manual!

http://www.dot4.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-cdl.pdf

WHERE does it say anything about a just a CDL for a trailer over 10,000# ??? I doesn't.

Again, the key word here is "PROVIDED" ..... That over-10,000# trailer HAS TO push you over 26,000# in combo with the tow vehicle.

If there is some law in PA I don't know about, just reserved for trailers over 10,000#, then I am wrong. But I can't find it anywhere. The Class A rule is the same everywhere.

wellbuilt
02-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Wow.......I'm going thru the same thing now....in CT ! My FRR has a GVW of 19,500# and the trailer I've been using is a 5T registered at 9980#'s to avoid the CDL / A testing.

Unfortunately my CT 322 weighs 8,600 lbs and is overweight on my non cdl trailer. So now I'm in the same boat.

My question..........(which I will get answered tomorrow when I stop by the DMV office)

is " can take the test in my non-CDL class truck and 16k trailer since this is the vehicle and trailer combination that is in question."

I'll let you guys know what my local DMV official says.

DirtDigger2 is correct with all his input except the note about the 2500 and 14K trailer ( law says any combination over 26,000K )and the acceptance of a Class A nationwide is the way to go and I'm guessing that it will be the path I'll need to take....minus the airbrake portion of the test.

Yes you can take the test on any combo over 26001 and get a class A I used a 16000lb truck and12000lb trailer = 28000lbs. Now i can drive any truck up to 26000lbs with any trailer the truck can pull legally. My truck has no GCWR only gvwr on the door. My hitch is good for 16500 but trailer max in the owners manual is 12500?

I had a simulated test on line to help me practice . Once i passed the test 3 times with a 80% average on line . I went down to take the real one .I aced the whole CDL test with only a few wrong . There was a azz load of info to remember . The driving test was 11/2 hrs long but i passed with out a problem . Ive been driving my truck and trailer for a long time . The bad news is a friend of mine is giving me his old dump and trailer cheep it 33, 000 lb gvwr and i have to take the test again Bummer .

wellbuilt
02-17-2009, 10:55 PM
Ok, I'm gonna argue :) with Dirt Digger. (have my Class A as well, for reasons I've stated already)

I don't see what is unclear about this sentence, (This Federal law applies in KY also and I assume MOST every State for a Class A)---->


a) a combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds, provided the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.

Straight from the PA manual!

http://www.dot4.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-cdl.pdf

WHERE does it say anything about a just a CDL for a trailer over 10,000# ??? I doesn't.

Again, the key word here is "PROVIDED" ..... That over-10,000# trailer HAS TO push you over 26,000# in combo with the tow vehicle.

If there is some law in PA I don't know about, just reserved for trailers over 10,000#, then I am wrong. But I can't find it anywhere. The Class A rule is the same everywhere.

In NY they word the phrase differently and say it in 3 diffrent places in the book . My MV CDL hand book is diffrent then there web site . but ive allways been OK with a 12000ld trailer on my F350. So far. Im sure my DOT officer will find some thing elce to ticket me for . The guys gota eat .

CLARK LAWN
02-17-2009, 11:31 PM
Yes you can take the test on any combo over 26001 and get a class A I used a 16000lb truck and12000lb trailer = 28000lbs. Now i can drive any truck up to 26000lbs with any trailer the truck can pull legally. My truck has no GCWR only gvwr on the door. My hitch is good for 16500 but trailer max in the owners manual is 12500?

I had a simulated test on line to help me practice . Once i passed the test 3 times with a 80% average on line . I went down to take the real one .I aced the whole CDL test with only a few wrong . There was a azz load of info to remember . The driving test was 11/2 hrs long but i passed with out a problem . Ive been driving my truck and trailer for a long time . The bad news is a friend of mine is giving me his old dump and trailer cheep it 33, 000 lb gvwr and i have to take the test again Bummer .

your not making sense do you have a class "A" already? if so you dont need to retake the test just because you are now in a bigger truck.
when i took mine the truck and trailer together only had a GCWR of about 33K but that is all it takes i have driven semi that permited for over 100K since and been thru the chick coop a few times and inspected more than once.

Ducati996
02-18-2009, 12:03 PM
Lots of difference of opinions here, so I will stick with NY rules for now, and it does sound like the New Yorkers on board might not fully understand the rules. Of course the guys with the CDL are ok

New York - you can use a truck up to 25,999 lbs (they say 26,000 but not over), without the need for a CDL. You can use a trailer up to 9,999 lbs without the need for a CDL. You can use both together without the need for a CDL (yes the combined weight is more than 26k, but they judge them as individual since both are under).
In NYS once the trailer is over 10k, you need to have a CDL. Its the trailer that wags the dog in this case in New York State...
Its the #1 reason they lower the limits on trailer registrations to show under 10k in this state. The trailer has the cuts for 12k, but its registered for under 10k. Just ask any trailer dealer who does this daily, or any construction equipment dealership. They ahve to be up on this daily...

There is a member in this thread that uses a 12k trailer in NYS - if he dosent have a CDL, then he is at risk....

Ducati996
02-18-2009, 12:07 PM
Wow.......I'm going thru the same thing now....in CT ! My FRR has a GVW of 19,500# and the trailer I've been using is a 5T registered at 9980#'s to avoid the CDL / A testing.

Unfortunately my CT 322 weighs 8,600 lbs and is overweight on my non cdl trailer. So now I'm in the same boat.

My question..........(which I will get answered tomorrow when I stop by the DMV office)

is " can take the test in my non-CDL class truck and 16k trailer since this is the vehicle and trailer combination that is in question."

I'll let you guys know what my local DMV official says.

DirtDigger2 is correct with all his input except the note about the 2500 and 14K trailer ( law says any combination over 26,000K )and the acceptance of a Class A nationwide is the way to go and I'm guessing that it will be the path I'll need to take....minus the airbrake portion of the test.

Shed some weight off of the CT 322 and put it in your truck - the loader bucket on that machine is likely more than 600lbs....you might have something else that can be removed easily and placed in the truck. You just made yourself in compliance

Ducati996
02-18-2009, 12:50 PM
I attached a CDL breakdown along with some contacts that you can contact for more clarity -

This will help the NYS guys only - PA seems to be more realisitic and flexible and allows you a heavier trailer ( Im jealous). Looks like NJ could be more closer to NYS than not - but I dont know for sure

GravelyNut
02-18-2009, 05:23 PM
I attached a CDL breakdown along with some contacts that you can contact for more clarity -

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136504&d=1234979366
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136505&d=1234979378


This will help the NYS guys only - PA seems to be more realisitic and flexible and allows you a heavier trailer ( Im jealous). Looks like NJ could be more closer to NYS than not - but I dont know for sure

The 1st pdf that you posted goes counter to what you said.

Lots of difference of opinions here, so I will stick with NY rules for now, and it does sound like the New Yorkers on board might not fully understand the rules. Of course the guys with the CDL are ok

New York - you can use a truck up to 25,999 lbs (they say 26,000 but not over), without the need for a CDL. You can use a trailer up to 9,999 lbs without the need for a CDL. You can use both together without the need for a CDL (yes the combined weight is more than 26k, but they judge them as individual since both are under).
In NYS once the trailer is over 10k, you need to have a CDL. Its the trailer that wags the dog in this case in New York State...
Its the #1 reason they lower the limits on trailer registrations to show under 10k in this state. The trailer has the cuts for 12k, but its registered for under 10k. Just ask any trailer dealer who does this daily, or any construction equipment dealership. They ahve to be up on this daily...

There is a member in this thread that uses a 12k trailer in NYS - if he dosent have a CDL, then he is at risk....

The CDL isn't required for a 12K trailer unless you are over 26K per your 1st pdf. Which is what the Fed law says. You have to get to the 26K+1 GCWR before a CDL is required by weight. At 26K+1 and a 10K+1 trailer you are at a Class A CDL. At 26K+1 and a 8K trailer you are at a Class B CDL.

Ducati996
02-18-2009, 07:26 PM
The 1st pdf that you posted goes counter to what you said.



The CDL isn't required for a 12K trailer unless you are over 26K per your 1st pdf. Which is what the Fed law says. You have to get to the 26K+1 GCWR before a CDL is required by weight. At 26K+1 and a 10K+1 trailer you are at a Class A CDL. At 26K+1 and a 8K trailer you are at a Class B CDL.

where you live maybe? not in New York...read the print, once the trailer is over 10k, your in CDL land period. The tail wags the dog in NY and other locations. Dosent matter what the truck towing it is at that point.

Take it up with the contact name for further clarity - but how I wrote it here and said it is consistant

ConstSvcs
02-18-2009, 08:01 PM
Ok......stopped at my local CT DMV office today....spoke with an inspector. In CT, as with every other state according to federal laws governing CDL's......I do need a CDL for my combination which as mentioned before is a commercial non CDL truck registered with a GVW of 19,500 lbs and a trailer of 14,000 lbs GVW.

I can take the test with my truck and trailer combo but this will give me a CLASS A with a "L" endorsement which is due to the fact that my Isuzu FRR has an Air over Hydraulic Brake System" and not a full air braking system.

I may end up taking the skills test with a friends truck a trailer to get the full CLASS A .....since the "L" endorsement makes the license very limited for the future.

So my CT Commercial Drivers Manual given to me by the inspector is going to make for some interesting reading.

ConstSvcs
02-18-2009, 08:10 PM
Shed some weight off of the CT 322 and put it in your truck - the loader bucket on that machine is likely more than 600lbs....you might have something else that can be removed easily and placed in the truck. You just made yourself in compliance

I wish it was that easy but the machine weighs in at 8300 lbs without a bucket !

Nothing else is removable.

CLARK LAWN
02-18-2009, 10:33 PM
where you live maybe? not in New York...read the print, once the trailer is over 10k, your in CDL land period. The tail wags the dog in NY and other locations. Dosent matter what the truck towing it is at that point.

Take it up with the contact name for further clarity - but how I wrote it here and said it is consistant

a class "D" is a regular operators license not a CDL. it says right it the print that you can tow over 10K as long as the combo is not over 26K. Class "B" is basicly for someone driving a dump truck that might pull a small equipment trailer
if your combo goes over 26K then you need a class "A"

GravelyNut
02-19-2009, 12:58 AM
where you live maybe? not in New York...read the print, once the trailer is over 10k, your in CDL land period. The tail wags the dog in NY and other locations. Dosent matter what the truck towing it is at that point.

Take it up with the contact name for further clarity - but how I wrote it here and said it is consistant

Suggest you point out in Non-CDL Class C and Class D license examples of where you are right. Because all of yours say that unless you are over 26K, you don't need that CDL. And just so the others here can see it if they don't have a way of seeing a pdf, they're copied below. It is the 26K+1 that wags the CDL dog, not the 12K trailer.

Ducati996
02-19-2009, 12:25 PM
a class "D" is a regular operators license not a CDL. it says right it the print that you can tow over 10K as long as the combo is not over 26K. Class "B" is basicly for someone driving a dump truck that might pull a small equipment trailer
if your combo goes over 26K then you need a class "A"

I never mentioned class D, but since you brought it up and thats whats offered these days outside of a CDL - thats all you will need if your in NYS and your truck is under 26k, and your trailer is under 10k. If your trailer is over 10k, you need a CDL (pick the type after that point).

Now for the mathmatically changed - please add up the totals above. Ok I will do that for you. It equals 35,998 combined, however you can still use a regular class D license because your vehicle is under 26k, and your towed vehicle is under 10k as well.

Cant point it out any more clearer than that. Others have spelled it out the same way - It might not be clear enough from Motor vehicles documents but they dont interpret the law or write the tickets.

I would just contact the name and number in those pdf's and take issue with them or the ambiquity.

Ducati996
02-19-2009, 12:32 PM
It is the 26K+1 that wags the CDL dog, not the 12K trailer.

Call the contact listed and tell them how you view it from out of state ( Florida). Here the trailer wags the dog, and thats that....did the upfront investigative work and wanted to share with NYS members only, since its directed to them. Dont like the ambiquity in their released document, take it up with them.

CLARK LAWN
02-19-2009, 01:16 PM
dude it says "may tow a vehicle with a GVWR of more than 10,000 provided the GCWR is less than 26,000" this means you can tow a 12,000 trailer with a F350 with an 11,000 GVWR with a class "D" which is a regular operator license.
If the combo is over 26000 then you need a CDL if the trailer is over 10k then you need a class"A".

Ducati996
02-19-2009, 02:16 PM
dude it says "may tow a vehicle with a GVWR of more than 10,000 provided the GCWR is less than 26,000" this means you can tow a 12,000 trailer with a F350 with an 11,000 GVWR with a class "D" which is a regular operator license.
If the combo is over 26000 then you need a CDL if the trailer is over 10k then you need a class"A".

Again the trailer limits your capacity (wags the dog) - you are now limited to 26k, instead of 35,998k total...

But lets look at it realistically and pragmatically -
with the combination above, what exactly are you going to tow thats not going to exceed your trucks ability? what exactly do you gain by using a 12k trailer (over a 9,999 lb)? it now limits what you can tow with (or your vehicle). You dont think they wont ticket you for a trailer that exceeds your trucks GVWR? I have heard it happens...

What happens when you try and buy or register a trailer over 10K? they require a CDL license in NYS...

so it looks to me the tails wags the dog....

CLARK LAWN
02-19-2009, 04:23 PM
its obvious that you have NO idea what you are talking about, you can haul a trailer that ways more than the power unit, ive done it many times and been 100% legal every time. a semi can legally gross 80K without permits most loads are around 50K in cargo. that leaves 30K for the tractor and trailer a tractor weights about 20-24K depending on what you have, that means the trailer gross is around 60K

What was origanally asked was do you need a CDL to pull a 14Ktrailer with a 13.5K truck and the answer is yes you need a class "A".

this is a fedral law that is uniform in every state it was set up so that there is no confusion from state to state. New York is just like every other state if you read the regs.

Ducati996
02-19-2009, 04:54 PM
its obvious that you have NO idea what you are talking about, you can haul a trailer that ways more than the power unit, ive done it many times and been 100% legal every time. a semi can legally gross 80K without permits most loads are around 50K in cargo. that leaves 30K for the tractor and trailer a tractor weights about 20-24K depending on what you have, that means the trailer gross is around 60K

What was origanally asked was do you need a CDL to pull a 14Ktrailer with a 13.5K truck and the answer is yes you need a class "A".

this is a fedral law that is uniform in every state it was set up so that there is no confusion from state to state. New York is just like every other state if you read the regs.

I was clear in my point and Im not confusing the questions at hand. Your mixing different scenerios to make your point which is no longer following what anybody was talking about. The original OP question was answered long ago, no kidding. Now your talking about semi's and other nonsense but miss the entire point of the thread. Of course you can have a trailer that exceeds the ability of your trucks ability - you can also be ticketed for this as well. Explain what equipment was being towed in your setup? Does this limit the type of truck you can use and the type of equipment you can legally tow? the answer is yes. Which part of the equation is setting the limits? the trailer because it lowers the options on the truck you can use. Lets keep assuming those who are concerned dont have a CDL license, otherwise they wouldnt need to post the question. They are also a commercial entity.The other assumption which I clearly stated, and was the reason why I posted - Im talking about NYS. What you do in Florida is great, wont fly here...

Ducati996
02-19-2009, 05:04 PM
I wish it was that easy but the machine weighs in at 8300 lbs without a bucket !

Nothing else is removable.

I feel for you, and I have similar issues/restrictions. My truck (F550 is 19.5k) the trailer is a 12k derated registration (under 10k). I chose the Kubota L39 to keep me within limits for now. Im right there with this combo

GravelyNut
02-19-2009, 08:00 PM
Again the trailer limits your capacity (wags the dog) - you are now limited to 26k, instead of 35,998k total...

But lets look at it realistically and pragmatically -
with the combination above, what exactly are you going to tow thats not going to exceed your trucks ability? what exactly do you gain by using a 12k trailer (over a 9,999 lb)? it now limits what you can tow with (or your vehicle). You dont think they wont ticket you for a trailer that exceeds your trucks GVWR? I have heard it happens...

What happens when you try and buy or register a trailer over 10K? they require a CDL license in NYS...

so it looks to me the tails wags the dog....
Number 1, the F350 isn't rated high enough to hit the 26K+1 mark for GCWR so you can't even think of towing with the 35998lb total. Max for GCWR of the F350 is 26K. Period. Ford set it there so it would be free of the CDL laws unless you were hauling placarded amounts of chemicals. It doesn't require a CDL to drive per Federal Law. Nor is NYS correct in their reading of the law. Truck's GCWR would allow you to tow a 12K trailer per NYS own laws under a Class D. Just like my fully loaded 3500 at 11400lbs on the truck's wheels could tow a 10100lb GVWR trailer and still be within my legal in 50 states GCWR. Or any combination of weights up to the 21.5K GCWR. They can't legally ticket me for towing a 14K trailer even though the truck max GVWR is 11,400. As long as I'm under the 21,500 GCWR. It appears that some in NYS can't understand the laws they have on the books. And by that, I mean those who are telling you you can't tow greater than 10K without a CDL. It's like so many other things that gov't tells you you can't do. They only win till someone takes them to court and the judge throws out the cases. As for your last example of your downrated trailer, good luck with that here. It is the manufacture's rating and not anything you or they (NYS) rate it at that counts. NYS could be in violation of Federal Laws if they stop an out of state truck that meets Federal rules.

CLARK LAWN
02-19-2009, 10:38 PM
finally some one who understands

Ducati996
02-20-2009, 10:40 AM
Number 1, the F350 isn't rated high enough to hit the 26K+1 mark for GCWR so you can't even think of towing with the 35998lb total. Max for GCWR of the F350 is 26K. Period. Ford set it there so it would be free of the CDL laws unless you were hauling placarded amounts of chemicals. It doesn't require a CDL to drive per Federal Law. Nor is NYS correct in their reading of the law. Truck's GCWR would allow you to tow a 12K trailer per NYS own laws under a Class D. Just like my fully loaded 3500 at 11400lbs on the truck's wheels could tow a 10100lb GVWR trailer and still be within my legal in 50 states GCWR. Or any combination of weights up to the 21.5K GCWR. They can't legally ticket me for towing a 14K trailer even though the truck max GVWR is 11,400. As long as I'm under the 21,500 GCWR. It appears that some in NYS can't understand the laws they have on the books. And by that, I mean those who are telling you you can't tow greater than 10K without a CDL. It's like so many other things that gov't tells you you can't do. They only win till someone takes them to court and the judge throws out the cases. As for your last example of your downrated trailer, good luck with that here. It is the manufacture's rating and not anything you or they (NYS) rate it at that counts. NYS could be in violation of Federal Laws if they stop an out of state truck that meets Federal rules.

Its great to hear out of staters explain the law for the rest of us. States have the option to follow federal or make it stricter. You cant buy a 12k trailer without a CDL. No dealer will sell it like that without -thats a recent enough implemetation - call and ask them

Who was stuck on a F350 limits? we know this already, but lets say you own a GMC topkick or F650 which can go up to 25,999 GWVR. I already know about the capacities of the F350-550 series ( I have one).

I think this topic is beaten and done with, you guys like the mix the subject matter around and state things I certainly didnt bring up. Your not changing my conclusions - or what I clearly stated... next topic, this one is finished on my end.

CLARK LAWN
02-20-2009, 10:53 AM
how can they not sell you a trailer? i worked at a place once were the owner did not have a CDL but 3 of the employees did. the dealer is going to tell him that he cant buy a trailer, i dont think so.

GravelyNut
02-20-2009, 05:35 PM
Its great to hear out of staters explain the law for the rest of us. States have the option to follow federal or make it stricter. You cant buy a 12k trailer without a CDL. No dealer will sell it like that without -thats a recent enough implemetation - call and ask them

Who was stuck on a F350 limits? we know this already, but lets say you own a GMC topkick or F650 which can go up to 25,999 GWVR. I already know about the capacities of the F350-550 series ( I have one).

I think this topic is beaten and done with, you guys like the mix the subject matter around and state things I certainly didnt bring up. Your not changing my conclusions - or what I clearly stated... next topic, this one is finished on my end.

It then sounds like you New Yorkers need to grow a backbone and take them to court as a Class Action suit. Like the people in VA did when VA raised the fines for resident higher than for non-residents.

wellbuilt
02-20-2009, 08:06 PM
your not making sense do you have a class "A" already? if so you dont need to retake the test just because you are now in a bigger truck.
when i took mine the truck and trailer together only had a GCWR of about 33K but that is all it takes i have driven semi that permited for over 100K since and been thru the chick coop a few times and inspected more than once.

I took the test for the class a over christmas . My truck is only 16000ls . My Class A is only good for a truck up to 26000lb with out air breaks . I can drive a truck at 26000lbs and pull a 16000lb trailer . To drive a 33000lb truck i would need to take the road test again in the new truck. If i had a truck for the test over 26000lbs with air breaks then yes i could drive any thing. It seemed like it was up to the instructor giving the test and how he filled out the forum .