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View Full Version : another winter fill in job


greenmonster304
02-16-2009, 09:22 PM
I hooked up this slop sink and ejector pump for one of my customers today.

mitchgo
02-16-2009, 09:34 PM
Nice.

Seems like an awful lot of work just to have some water down there.

rlpsystems
02-16-2009, 09:54 PM
Looks good. Sure beats cleaning gutters and painting cabinets.

Wet_Boots
02-16-2009, 10:01 PM
It's only a slop sink if there's drainage going into it.

hoskm01
02-16-2009, 10:33 PM
could have upgraded the timer, too.


Nice work.

TRILAWNCARE
02-16-2009, 11:46 PM
That doesn't look like a GFI receptacle......

ARGOS
02-17-2009, 12:09 AM
How can you tell if that's a GFI? It is obviously a square receptacle. The plug could be hiding the reset buttons.

GM304 did a nice clean install.

Kiril
02-17-2009, 01:34 AM
That doesn't look like a GFI receptacle......

Not to mention the plumbing is not even close to code worthy.

bicmudpuppy
02-17-2009, 02:22 AM
How can you tell if that's a GFI? It is obviously a square receptacle. The plug could be hiding the reset buttons.

GM304 did a nice clean install.

That doesn't look like a GFI receptacle......

Not to mention the plumbing is not even close to code worthy.

Wow, rough crowd. Basement GCFI are usually dedicated breakers, not wall trips, and the plumb job looks clean to me. I don't think Kiril actually survives in the real world.

Dripit good
02-17-2009, 05:32 AM
Kiril is referring to the lack of hammer arrestors, which would be proper in the real world. :)

greenmonster304
02-17-2009, 07:55 AM
That doesn't look like a GFI receptacle......

It is a GFI.

And Kiril whats the problem with the plumbing?

EagleLandscape
02-17-2009, 08:03 AM
It is a GFI.

And Kiril whats the problem with the plumbing?

...It doesnt have any rocks....

Kiril
02-17-2009, 08:11 AM
And Kiril whats the problem with the plumbing?

For starters where is the trap and atmospheric vent?
Given the depth of the sink, you should be able to see the trap in the pic, and the vent is just not there.

AI Inc
02-17-2009, 08:34 AM
Is that an xc controller?

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 08:45 AM
There probably isn't much point to a trap when you have the drainage being pumped upwards.

greenmonster304
02-17-2009, 08:46 AM
For starters where is the trap and atmospheric vent?
Given the depth of the sink, you should be able to see the trap in the pic, and the vent is just not there.

the trap is under the sink and the vent is screwed into the top of the pump

Kiril
02-17-2009, 09:41 AM
There probably isn't much point to a trap when you have the drainage being pumped upwards.

:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 09:46 AM
Think about it, junior, the pump itself is a trap.

Dripit good
02-17-2009, 09:51 AM
You would get the stink from the tank if there were no trap.

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 09:56 AM
You would get the stink from the tank if there were no trap.Do you always take a wizz into laundry tubs?

Dripit good
02-17-2009, 09:59 AM
Sure....plenty of room and can't miss:laugh:

Great place to practice my cursive.

AI Inc
02-17-2009, 10:05 AM
Do you always take a wizz into laundry tubs?

Isnt that the reason for putting a sink in the basement?

Kiril
02-17-2009, 10:21 AM
the trap is under the sink and the vent is screwed into the top of the pump

Based on the angle of the pipe and the depth of those sinks it doesn't look like there is enough room for a trap, but then your the one who plumbed it so you should know.

As far as the atmospheric vent .... what you have doesn't even come close to cutting it, unless there are special exceptions I am not aware of?

The point of the atmospheric vent is the prevent gases from venting into the building and to equalize pressure in the system. Also, with your vent below the flood rim of the sink (also not up to code) what happens when the pump fails or the line gets clogged?

For your reference.

http://books.google.com/books?id=czUEHeREbDgC&pg=PT171&lpg=PT171#PPT168,M1

You need some insulation on your hot water line as well. :)

Maybe you live in Suffolk Co. where we all know normally accepted codes do not apply. :laugh:

TRILAWNCARE
02-17-2009, 10:23 AM
Here are the installation instructions for a similar unit. Might be the same one for all I know.

1. Determine proper location for unit. Locate unit so that inlet
is gravity-fed. Unit will not draw water up from a lower level.
Position and level basin. Keep basin away from any item that
could puncture basin. Position selected should be convenient
to inlet, discharge, and vent piping, and electrical supply.

2. Plumb inlet. Using 1-1/2” threaded pipe, plumb inlet to basin
cover fitting. Use a P-trap and a union next to the basin. Use
pipe joint compound and hand tighten only on plastic fittings.
Do not reduce below 1-1/2” piping.

3. Plumb discharge. Using 1-1/2” threaded pipe, plumb discharge
to basin cover fitting. Use a swing check valve no more than
3” from top of basin cover and a union. Be sure check valve is
installed in proper flow direction.
If check valve is installed backwards, no water will flow out
of unit. Be sure discharge piping is sealed with pipe joint
compound and that lift height of pump is not exceeded. Hand
tighten only on plastic fittings.

4. Plumb vent. Plumb vent using 2” threaded pipe to fitting in
basin cover. Use pipe joint compound on threads and hand
tighten only on plastic fittings. The basin must be vented in
accordance with state and local codes. The vent is essential for
proper switch operation and must not be omitted or restricted..
CAUTION: Do not use a mechanical vent with this product.

http://www.lgpc.com/ProductFiles/OM/993801.pdf

Kiril
02-17-2009, 10:24 AM
Think about it, junior, the pump itself is a trap.

B.S. Boots .... do you even understand the principles of a trap?

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 10:24 AM
Based on the angle of the pipe and the depth of those sinks it doesn't look like there is enough room for a trap, but then your the one who plumbed it so you should know.

As far as the atmospheric vent .... what you have doesn't even come close to cutting it, unless there are special exceptions I am not aware of?

The point of the atmospheric vent is the prevent gases from venting into the building and to equalize pressure in the system. Also, with your vent below the flood rim of the sink (also not up to code) what happens when the pump fails or the line gets clogged?

For your reference.

http://books.google.com/books?id=czUEHeREbDgC&pg=PT171&lpg=PT171#PPT168,M1

You need some insulation on your hot water line as well. :)

Maybe you live in Suffolk Co. where we all know normally accepted codes do not apply. :laugh:

Go be a regional building inspector and get off our forum!! ;)

Kiril
02-17-2009, 10:35 AM
Go be a regional building inspector and get off our forum!! ;)

I would never cut it .... I wouldn't accept payoffs to look the other way. :laugh:

BTW, I only know some of this crap because I am rebuilding my house.

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 10:41 AM
B.S. Boots .... do you even understand the principles of a trap?You mean a device to prevent the sewer gases from getting to the fixture? Like a water-filled pump isn't a barrier? Not to mention the discharge line. Real world, kid. Real world.

Kiril
02-17-2009, 10:45 AM
You mean a device to prevent the sewer gases from getting to the fixture? Like a water-filled pump isn't a barrier? Not to mention the discharge line. Real world, kid. Real world.

Look at the entry point of the drain line doofus .... will it ever be below the water level? Don't know why I bother ... it is pointless to argue with a dolt.

greenmonster304
02-17-2009, 10:57 AM
Based on the angle of the pipe and the depth of those sinks it doesn't look like there is enough room for a trap, but then your the one who plumbed it so you should know.

As far as the atmospheric vent .... what you have doesn't even come close to cutting it, unless there are special exceptions I am not aware of?

The point of the atmospheric vent is the prevent gases from venting into the building and to equalize pressure in the system. Also, with your vent below the flood rim of the sink (also not up to code) what happens when the pump fails or the line gets clogged?

For your reference.

http://books.google.com/books?id=czUEHeREbDgC&pg=PT171&lpg=PT171#PPT168,M1

You need some insulation on your hot water line as well. :)

Maybe you live in Suffolk Co. where we all know normally accepted codes do not apply. :laugh:

As for the vent you might be right I installed what the supply house told me to use and as for suffolk county you are also right

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 10:58 AM
Look at the entry point of the drain line doofus .... will it ever be below the water level? Don't know why I bother ... it is pointless to argue with a dolt.Have you ever installed a drain pump? They are water-filled 24/7 from the moment they first operate. Gases from the main sewer line can't get to the laundry tub. Tub drainage might eventually go sour in the pump chamber, but there are any number of these things installed in cellars without traps between them and laundry tubs draining washing machines, and no stink. Real world.

Tom Tom
02-17-2009, 11:03 AM
BTW, I only know some of this crap because I am rebuilding my house.

Cuts both ways, post some pics!

Kiril
02-17-2009, 11:09 AM
Tub drainage might eventually go sour in the pump chamber.

Bingo bud .... try to justify it all you want .... but there is good reason for the code with respect to traps. Perhaps you should sit in on the code review board so you can tell all those people what fools they are.

BTW Boots, the following is not the same as what was installed, regardless of how much you want it to be.

http://www.vorlandlandcompany.com/photos/616-CentralAve/basement_sump.jpg

ARGOS
02-17-2009, 11:10 AM
Boots...Kiril...The guy said he put a trap in. His copper is clean.

The vent could be an issue according to TL install instructions.

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 11:19 AM
There are lots of violations that are not actual safety issues, like all the sump pumps that discharge into sewer lines. There are countless tub/pump installs where the pump is directly below the laundry tub, but the contining usage of the washing machine makes the lack of a separate trap a non-issue.

Kiril
02-17-2009, 11:20 AM
Cuts both ways, post some pics!

Huh? Pics of what? The plumbing I hired someone to do? Here you go .... good enough for you? Note the where the vanity vent connects to the main stack.

Kiril
02-17-2009, 11:21 AM
There are lots of violations that are not actual safety issues, like all the sump pumps that discharge into sewer lines. There are countless tub/pump installs where the pump is directly below the laundry tub, but the contining usage of the washing machine makes the lack of a separate trap a non-issue.

One could say the same thing about double checks and irrigation, but we all know where you stand on that issue. :hammerhead::hammerhead:

Tom Tom
02-17-2009, 11:23 AM
Huh? Pics of what? The plumbing I hired someone to do? Here you go .... good enough for you? Note the where the vanity vent connects to the main stack.

sweet man.

Why not tackle the job yourself? Thats what I assumed when you mentioned you are rebuilding your house. What happened to cause the rebuild?

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 11:23 AM
Greenmonster - it looks good. Don't listen to the two doofuses bickering.

Are you two sure you're not siblings? You sure act like it.

Kiril
02-17-2009, 11:31 AM
Why not tackle the job yourself?

Some of it I am, some is being contracted out. Time is a factor, of which I have very little, and this "rebuild" has been going on for more than 5 years.

I am doing all the framing mods, low volt, security, home automation, whole house A/V, finish plumbing and electrical, and tiling. Rough plumbing and electrical got contracted out, and insulation (foam) and probably dry wall will be also be contracted out.

Thats what I assumed when you mentioned you are rebuilding your house. What happened to cause the rebuild?

Black mold ... complete gut down to the framing. Basically with the exception of the original framing and slab the house will be new.

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 11:33 AM
Huh? Pics of what? The plumbing I hired someone to do? Here you go .... good enough for you?http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2815/badplumbing17th6.jpg
Greenmonster - it looks good. Don't listen to the two doofuses bickering.

Are you two sure you're not siblings? You sure act like it.It's winter and I'm bored.

By the way, there is something else in the original photo that might merit a gripe, if I felt like checking up on the codes.

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 11:35 AM
By the way, there is something else in the original photo that might merit a gripe, if I felt like checking up on the codes.

Let me guess, the walls are not the correct shade of white to prevent moisture?

TRILAWNCARE
02-17-2009, 11:38 AM
Have you ever installed a drain pump? They are water-filled 24/7 from the moment they first operate. Gases from the main sewer line can't get to the laundry tub. Tub drainage might eventually go sour in the pump chamber, but there are any number of these things installed in cellars without traps between them and laundry tubs draining washing machines, and no stink. Real world.

Gasses on the discharge of the pump is not a issue. The gasses on the inside of the catch basin are. The sink gravity feeds the sump jar, and as you can see in this cut away (http://www.lgpc.com/ProductFiles/SpecSheets/993102.pdf), the inlet is not submerged creating its own trap. This is why you need a trap installed.

The vent is multi purpose. One to vent the gasses inside the jar. The other, because sump jar is watertight and airtight to prevent the gases from escaping out of it, if no vent was provided, when the pump engages a vacuum will be created sucking the water out of the P trap in the inlet pipe. Causing sewer gases from the stew in the sump jar to vent out the sink even if there is a trap installed.

Ever clear a hair clog in a sink trap, not the most pleasant smelling experience. And I don't wizz down my bathroom sink.

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 11:40 AM
And I don't wizz down my bathroom sink.

That's what the shower is for :laugh:

Kiril
02-17-2009, 11:46 AM
TLC, don't even bother. Boots is right even when he is wrong. :laugh:

Junior M
02-17-2009, 11:55 AM
Think about it, junior, the pump itself is a trap.
Wooo, dont drag my name into this... :hammerhead:

hoskm01
02-17-2009, 12:01 PM
Wooo, dont drag my name into this... :hammerhead:
The pre-pubescent community thanks you.

TRILAWNCARE
02-17-2009, 12:03 PM
TLC, don't even bother. Boots is right even when he is wrong. :laugh:

I know, I did get him on that "reverse flow valve principle" that was fun.

I'm sure GM304 will go back and install a vent, and all will be fine. If not there might be a funny gurgling sound coming from the sink when the pump runs, and he can tell the kids (if any live there) that a GREENMONSTER lives in the sump jar. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Junior M
02-17-2009, 12:06 PM
The pre-pubescent community thanks you.
I am not even goin to ask.. ;) :confused:

Kiril
02-17-2009, 12:06 PM
I'm sure GM304 will go back and install a vent, and all will be fine. If not there might be a funny gurgling sound coming from the sink when the pump runs, and he can tell the kids (if any live there) that a GREENMONSTER lives in the sump jar. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Question is, what is the best way? Personally I would lean towards a loop back vent.

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 12:10 PM
Gasses on the discharge of the pump is not a issue. The gasses on the inside of the catch basin are. The sink gravity feeds the sump jar, and as you can see in this cut away (http://www.lgpc.com/ProductFiles/SpecSheets/993102.pdf), the inlet is not submerged creating its own trap. This is why you need a trap installed. What the hell are you talking about? Sump pumps have a flooded suction inlet, if the float is properly adjusted.

The vent is multi purpose. One to vent the gasses inside the jar. The other, because sump jar is watertight and airtight to prevent the gases from escaping out of it, if no vent was provided, when the pump engages a vacuum will be created sucking the water out of the P trap in the inlet pipe. Causing sewer gases from the stew in the sump jar to vent out the sink even if there is a trap installed.

Ever clear a hair clog {what hair?} in a sink trap, not the most pleasant smelling experience. And I don't wizz down my bathroom sink.The lack of a trap and a vent is still a practical non-issue in a laundry tub install that drains a washing machine. Nothing like bleach and detergent to keep the pump chamber clean.

Kiril
02-17-2009, 12:12 PM
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah

Mike Leary
02-17-2009, 12:14 PM
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,Blah, Blah

Feel better now?

Kiril
02-17-2009, 12:15 PM
Feel better now?

Absofriggenlutely :laugh:

Wet_Boots
02-17-2009, 12:19 PM
Nothing like hot air to keep a chat thread clean :realmad:

Kiril
02-17-2009, 12:28 PM
Nothing like hot air to keep a chat thread clean :realmad:

Not to mention the BS you are throwing around.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132134&d=1232343110

WalkGood
02-17-2009, 12:56 PM
the trap is under the sink and the vent is screwed into the top of the pump


If that is a Studor vent (air admittance valve) screwed into the top of the pump ..... that is a no-no in SOME jurisdictions that adopt 2006 NATIONAL STANDARD PLUMBING CODE (NSPC). Also subject to local (town/village) codes.


** Note to those not in the know.... an AAV (air admittance valve) serves as a plumbing vent to let air pressure INTO the waste drain but not let air/water/gunk OUT. They are code approved in many plumbing codes. But again, subject to local codes.




http://www.studor.com/codes.htm

2006 NATIONAL STANDARD PLUMBING CODE (NSPC)
Appendix E - Special Design Plumbing Systems
E.8.2.3

Air admittance valves shall not be permitted in the following applications:
a. vents for special waste drainage systems (Sections 9.4.1 and 9.4.2)
b. vents for sewage pump ejector pump sites
c. vents for pneumatic sewage ejectors
d. suds pressure zone venting e. relief vents required by Section E.8.3.1

Mike Leary
02-17-2009, 01:33 PM
Note to those not in the know.

I'd call the plumbers. :sleeping::sleeping::sleeping: