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FIMCO-MEISTER
02-17-2009, 11:24 AM
Google brought this topic up for me. I did a search since the topic was in reference to AU and lo and behold MI has a pay per flush Township.

http://www.oxfordleader.com/Articles-i-2009-01-28-226644.113121_Township_set_to_pay_per_flush.html

Billing for watering events as opposed to gallons used. The billing and tax structure is going to be revamped on a lot of resources. States will switch to taxing by miles driven as opposed to gas tax. (Or maybe both YIKES!) Adding the drive tax on work will be here before long. Taxing internet sales is bound to happen soon as well. Have you looked at all the fees in your phone bill? Prepare for that on all purchases. I want to end the subsidies extended to western water users and stop unregulated ground water usage. The only water not billed or taxed inmo should be harvested or reclaimed water on the premise.

Tom Tom
02-17-2009, 11:29 AM
States will switch to taxing by miles driven as opposed to gas tax. (Or maybe both YIKES!) Adding the drive tax on work will be here before long.

Have heard that too. I just don't believe it will ever become reality. Probably just a suggested threat to rationalize an increased gas tax at the pump.

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 11:29 AM
I may start using the trees outside to save money and water. Gotta be careful though of when the kids are walking to the school bus.

Didn't New York already pass an internet purchase tax bill already? I heard they will also be charging tax on downloading movies AND adult movies.

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 11:30 AM
Have heard that too. I just don't believe it will ever become reality. Probably just a suggested threat to rationalize an increased gas tax at the pump.

I don't see how they could get away with no gas tax. What about all the equipment used off the roads with no odometer for a mileage tax?

hoskm01
02-17-2009, 11:33 AM
The only water not billed or taxed inmo should be harvested or reclaimed water on the premise.



Well, the west is one step ahead of you there, too.

It is illegal to harvest rainwater or snow in Colorado. Reclaimed water is also committed downriver.

I think a per flush or event charge is a bit excessive. I do think water is too cheap, should probably cost triple what it is at now.. We pay about 2.10/kgal.



as read via http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/natres/06702.html

Water Rights Issues Concerning Rainwater Harvesting

The diversion and use of rainwater is subject to the Constitution of the State of Colorado, state statutes, and case law. New Colorado residents should understand that water rights in Colorado are unique compared to other parts of the country. The use of water in this state and other western states is governed by what is known as the prior appropriation doctrine. This system of water allocation controls who uses how much water, the types of uses allowed, and when those waters can be used. A simplified way to explain this system is often referred to as the priority system or "first in time, first in right."

An appropriation is made when an individual physically takes water from a stream or well (when legally available) and puts that water to beneficial use. The first person to appropriate water and apply that water to use has the first right to that water within a particular stream system. This person, after receiving a court decree verifying their priority status, then becomes the senior water right holder and that water right must be satisfied before any other water rights are filled. In Colorado, the State Engineer has the statutory obligation to protect all vested water rights. The process of allocating water to various water users is traditionally referred to as water rights administration, and is the responsibility of the Division of Water Resources.

Of course, the appropriation system is much more complicated than described above. Some priorities on major stream systems in Colorado date back to the 1850's, and most of the stream systems have been over-appropriated, meaning that at some or all times of the year, a call for water even by a senior appropriator is not satisfied. Practically speaking, this means that in most river drainages, a person cannot divert rainwater and put it to a beneficial use without a plan for augmentation that replaces the stream depletions associated with that diversion. In most areas of Colorado, the only sure legal way to use rainwater is to direct roof gutter downspouts to drain to landscape areas you wish to water.

It is recommended that before you develop a rainwater harvesting system you check with the Colorado Division of Water Resources and your local building, zoning, and environmental departments to determine what plumbing requirements, local restrictions, neighborhood covenants, or other regulations or guidelines might apply to your project. Rainwater catchments, distribution systems, and landscape holding areas must be located and used entirely within the property boundaries of the individual or entity building using the system. These systems must be maintained in an acceptable manner and not cause damage or interference to neighboring property. Standards for construction must be consistent with industry standards or as determined by the local administrative authority.

hoskm01
02-17-2009, 11:37 AM
I don't see how they could get away with no gas tax. What about all the equipment used off the roads with no odometer for a mileage tax?
Look at red diesel. No FHT or state tax there.

Tom Tom
02-17-2009, 11:38 AM
I don't see how they could get away with no gas tax. What about all the equipment used off the roads with no odometer for a mileage tax?

exactly, just increase the state gas tax(instead of a mileage tax) at the pump to cover all those other vehicles, offroader's, maintenance vehicles, lawn mowers, out-of-state drivers, chainsaws to cut down all the beetle killed trees, etc.

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-17-2009, 11:39 AM
Well, the west is one step ahead of you there, too.

It is illegal to harvest rainwater or snow in Colorado. Reclaimed water is also committed downriver.

I think a per flush or event charge is a bit excessive. I do think water is too cheap, should probably cost triple what it is at now.. We pay about 2.10/kgal.

I'm going to look into that harvesting issue. That may be my fighting issue when I get there. Not sure any other state has that issue. Snow I can understand but water off your roof, rain and a/c condensation is fair game inmo. We'll see what happens when I get there and do a total review of the situation. Blocking a dam on the Poudre will also be an issue with me.

Once I get to FC I'm going to shut the door and demand zero growth.

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-17-2009, 11:42 AM
I see an opening.

In most areas of Colorado, the only sure legal way to use rainwater is to direct roof gutter downspouts to drain to landscape areas you wish to water.

It is recommended that before you develop a rainwater harvesting system you check with the Colorado Division of Water Resources and your local building, zoning, and environmental departments to determine what plumbing requirements, local restrictions, neighborhood covenants, or other regulations or guidelines might apply to your project. Rainwater catchments, distribution systems, and landscape holding areas must be located and used entirely within the property boundaries of the individual or entity building using the system. These systems must be maintained in an acceptable manner and not cause damage or interference to neighboring property. Standards for construction must be consistent with industry standards or as determined by the local administrative authority.

If it can be shown RW used in toilets or landscape reduces the overall demand. I see potential here.

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 11:42 AM
Rainwater harvesting (http://www.gazette.com/articles/tough_47395___article.html/bill_denver.html) article

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-17-2009, 11:46 AM
exactly, just increase the state gas tax(instead of a mileage tax) at the pump to cover all those other vehicles, offroader's, maintenance vehicles, lawn mowers, out-of-state drivers, chainsaws to cut down all the beetle killed trees, etc.

That tells me you will have both. With hybrids and electric cars the state is going to lose boohoos of revenue from lower gas sales so they have to make it up somehow. Toll fees? Mileage charges?

Mike Leary
02-17-2009, 11:50 AM
Toll fees? Mileage charges?

No thanks.

Tom Tom
02-17-2009, 11:51 AM
That tells me you will have both. With hybrids and electric cars the state is going to lose boohoos of revenue from lower gas sales so they have to make it up somehow. Toll fees? Mileage charges?

I'm against both, but if I gotta choose the lesser of two evils..........

But, your right about hybrid and electric cars. But they make up such an extremely small fraction of the current "fleet" that its hard to imagine lawmakers have already thought that far in advance.

Kinda makes you wonder what else they have up their sleeves?

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-17-2009, 11:59 AM
I'm against both, but if I gotta choose the lesser of two evils..........

But, your right about hybrid and electric cars. But they make up such an extremely small fraction of the current "fleet" that its hard to imagine lawmakers have already thought that far in advance.

Kinda makes you wonder what else they have up their sleeves?

Never underestimate how ingenious politicians can be a creating revenue streams.

Never underestimate how ingenious the public is at manipulating the tax stream.

Imagine that a state passes a road or mileage tax. A neighboring state doesn't. People will pile on the border and drive in. Noticed how many RVs and cars are bought in Montana? No sales tax. It goes on and on.

hoskm01
02-17-2009, 11:59 AM
Toll fees?
Theyre already on it. With your move, count yourself in to the "WE" category.





Light stays green
for possible tolls on
I-70 near tunnel
By John Ingold
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 04/12/2008 11:57:12 PM MDT
A controversial plan to put tolls on Interstate 70
near the Eisenhower Tunnel won again Friday, this
time passing out of the state Senate Appropriations
Committee.
The plan, Senate Bill 213 from Senate Minority
Leader Andy McElhany, R-Colorado Springs, would
allow the state to charge up to $5 tolls on the
highway in order to pay for projects to expand the
interstate's capacity.
It passed 7-3 Friday morning, surprisingly
receiving support from all but one Democrat on the
committee — and, even more surprisingly, two no
votes from committee Republicans.
"It continues to stay alive," McElhany said after the
hearing. "We take one step at a time. We've still got a
long way to go through the process."
The bill was weakened, though, in its trek forward.
McElhany and the committee amended the bill in two
places to take out mandates that the state move
forward with tolling. The bill now says the state can
implement tolls on the highway if it chooses.
McElhany's bill, along with another, now-defeated
I-70 tolling bill, have been roundly criticized by
mountain lawmakers and community leaders for
ignoring the existing study groups coming up with
ways to solve congestion problems on I-70.
Last month, Sen. Dan Gibbs, D-Silverthorne, led a
rally at the state Capitol of mountain residents
against the ideas, even though McElhany's plan
would exempt residents in Clear Creek, Gilpin and
Summit counties from the tolls. Numerous witnesses
testified at the bill's first hearing that it would hurt
businesses and tourism in the mountains.
But Friday's opposition came from two metro- area
Republican senators, Mike Kopp of Littleton and Ted
Harvey of Highlands Ranch. Kopp said he is against
the idea because he believes citizens have already
paid for those roads.
Instead, Kopp said, any tolls placed on interstates
should be placed on new lanes and used to pay off
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Toll road has been open for 6-8 years maybe? Outer Denver metro loop.


http://www.e-470.com/

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 12:05 PM
Imagine that a state passes a road or mileage tax. A neighboring state doesn't. People will pile on the border and drive in. Noticed how many RVs and cars are bought in Montana? No sales tax. It goes on and on.

If you buy an vehicle from out of state from CO, you still pay the sales tax when you register it for plates.

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-17-2009, 12:08 PM
If you buy an vehicle from out of state from CO, you still pay the sales tax when you register it for plates.

My B in Law drives a truck with Wyoming plates. Has for years.

TPendagast
02-17-2009, 12:09 PM
I don't see how they could get away with no gas tax. What about all the equipment used off the roads with no odometer for a mileage tax?

gast tax is to pay for road use. Tax on off raod fuel, if you keep track of it, is refundable if you put in the right paper work. Technically you dont owe any tax on off road fuel.

Tom Tom
02-17-2009, 12:11 PM
gast tax is to pay for road use. Tax on off raod fuel, if you keep track of it, is refundable if you put in the right paper work. Technically you dont owe any tax on off road fuel.

I'm gonna start driving down the sidewalk :laugh:

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 12:15 PM
My B in Law drives a truck with Wyoming plates. Has for years.

Good for him. How does he do it with no WY residence?

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 12:16 PM
I'm gonna start driving down the sidewalk :laugh:

Bicycle with a pull behind kids stroller packed with irrigation parts. Now that's the way to go.

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Good for him. How does he do it with no WY residence?

He has property in Wyoming. A farm he inherited that the Govt. pays him to do nothing with and some commercial properties in Cheyenne he rents. He is in commercial roofing and historic restoration.

www.wattleanddaub.com

AI Inc
02-17-2009, 01:58 PM
Theyre already on it. With your move, count yourself in to the "WE" category.


[B]





[SIZE="6"]Toll road has been open for 6-8 years maybe? Outer Denver metro loop.


http://www.e-470.com/

That road is expensive , they should set up financing for using it. Cost me $12.50 on a motorcycle.

AI Inc
02-17-2009, 01:59 PM
gast tax is to pay for road use. Tax on off raod fuel, if you keep track of it, is refundable if you put in the right paper work. Technically you dont owe any tax on off road fuel.

That depends what it is used for. Boats , you can get it back. Snowmobiles , 4 wheelers , dirt bikes , it is used to fund the 30-40-30 law and is non refundable.

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 06:01 PM
He has property in Wyoming. A farm he inherited that the Govt. pays him to do nothing with and some commercial properties in Cheyenne he rents. He is in commercial roofing and historic restoration.

www.wattleanddaub.com

Well that's different if he has land there that he can register it under.

DanaMac
02-17-2009, 06:06 PM
That road is expensive , they should set up financing for using it. Cost me $12.50 on a motorcycle.

Yes it is $12.50 to go one end to the other, just to skirt around Denver. 5 stops along the way, $2.50 each stop. But they are changing it this year, but not sure of the details. Going from DIA picking up and dropping off Les on the ski trip, I used the north side of it going to the Fort Collins area. $5.00 each time. It's $7.50 if I take it going south to my place. I usually take I70 and I225 instead, unless it is rush hour.

ARGOS
02-17-2009, 11:23 PM
Google brought this topic up for me. I did a search since the topic was in reference to AU and lo and behold MI has a pay per flush Township.

I took a leak in a Sloan Waterless Urinal (http://www.labsafety.com/search/Sloan/56586/)this morning. As I am staring blindly at the wall I notice the little sign describing how I am urinating in a waterless urinal and how environmentally sound Sloan and the hardware store I am peeing in are.

I would hate to have the job of removing the cartridge. I will be anxiously waiting for the next level of waterless john.

DanaMac
02-18-2009, 09:08 AM
Hey peter - Water rationing in Los Angeles (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090218/ts_nm/us_water_california_1) now