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Surferbum21
02-17-2009, 01:51 PM
I have tried searching this forum for anything related to health risks. I was just wondering if there are any long term affects of being around all these chemicals. I know we are all as careful as we can be but there is going to be times when chemicals come into contact by breathing or touching something. Is there any studies that show that working around these chemicals is really bad?

Surferbum21
02-17-2009, 01:55 PM
http://www.ehhi.org/pesticides/pr_lawncarereport.shtml

Surferbum21
02-17-2009, 02:04 PM
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/lawn/factsheets/facts&figures.htm

Surferbum21
02-17-2009, 02:07 PM
http://www.chem-tox.com/pesticides/

Surferbum21
02-17-2009, 02:09 PM
i want to get into this aspect of business b/c it is easier money than mowing and a way to expand. but i worry about long term health risks and affects.

Runner
02-17-2009, 02:14 PM
Great,...Another "We believe" site.
While there is no such thing as a completely "safe" pesticide. the majority of the responsibility rests upon the consumer. I can GUARANTEE I can find things under a persons kitchen sink that is far more toxic and harmful than the pesticides that are tested for 12 years before they even receive an EPA approval for use. It all comes down to common sense....Labels read what they do for a purpose. That's why certain products are required to be watered in for dilution and dissipation. as far as the breathing,...it's the same thing...whether it be bleach from a cleanser, vapors from a glue or fumes from a piant or thinner.
Now,...let's find some sites about the diseases that many bugs and mosquitoes carry. The effects of spider bites,...and the allergenic and health effect related to weeds and ragweed. Not to mention the environmental benefits to a good clean sod and the oxygen it produces, the dust it eliminates through filtration, and the sound baffling and anti-noise polution effects it has. The list goes on and on.

Surferbum21
02-17-2009, 02:27 PM
Great,...Another "We believe" site.
While there is no such thing as a completely "safe" pesticide. the majority of the responsibility rests upon the consumer. I can GUARANTEE I can find things under a persons kitchen sink that is far more toxic and harmful than the pesticides that are tested for 12 years before they even receive an EPA approval for use. It all comes down to common sense....Labels read what they do for a purpose. That's why certain products are required to be watered in for dilution and dissipation. as far as the breathing,...it's the same thing...whether it be bleach from a cleanser, vapors from a glue or fumes from a piant or thinner.
Now,...let's find some sites about the diseases that many bugs and mosquitoes carry. The effects of spider bites,...and the allergenic and health effect related to weeds and ragweed. Not to mention the environmental benefits to a good clean sod and the oxygen it produces, the dust it eliminates through filtration, and the sound baffling and anti-noise polution effects it has. The list goes on and on.

that's some info i was looking for. thanks. i just want to make sure i know everything. went on a ride along with an 'acquantance" today and he seemed so careless about what he was doing...no respirator when mixing chemicals, just gloves. i could see the spray just going all over the place when he was spraying b/c it was fairly windy today.

phasthound
02-17-2009, 02:32 PM
There are risks and benefits to everything. Driving a car is very dangerous and we accept the risk of driving intelligently. But then again many people think they have the right to drive while under the influence.

Pesticides, when used wisely have many benefits. However, many people don't use them wisely and cause harm to themselves and others.

In my operation I have taken the approach to greatly reduce the amounts of pesticides used while being able to get great results.

There are many who will tell you that the info on the sites you posted is "junk science". For me, there is just too much evidence from independent studies that give credence to err on the side of caution. There really is no need to use the amount of pesticides that are commonly used.

VARMIT COMMISSION
02-17-2009, 03:10 PM
I bought a pair of chemical chaps last week and wore them this week. I was amazed at how much chemical I was getting on my jeans. I was using blue dye and the front of my chaps were completely covered. I guarantee ya I will be using them every time I spray. I could usually see a little dye on my jeans but---man this was an eye opener.

Hoots
02-17-2009, 03:16 PM
I have been lkajgflak;sdfjgh laksdhj using chemicals for years and ldkhjfiovoa never had any problems.

My daughter was jasdol ;gapmoij born with a full head of hair, more than I have. There is nlka n;soipmjwolk; nothing wrong with a little alksd gjhamoi exposure.

Just kidding, someone had to do it.

Have a good day!!!l;kdsa gjamoie jlkaesj oi[su[iqo

tlg
02-17-2009, 03:37 PM
that's some info i was looking for. thanks. i just want to make sure i know everything. went on a ride along with an 'acquantance" today and he seemed so careless about what he was doing...no respirator when mixing chemicals, just gloves. i could see the spray just going all over the place when he was spraying b/c it was fairly windy today.

Here's the classic example of why pesticides get a bad rap. Now I don't know what your acquaintance was mixing or spraying but if you are questioning his procedures I would say that cause enough for alarm. The fact that he may not be following the label should tell you that his practices may lead to pesticides being applied improperly. What it all boils down to is proper use of pesticides. If you don't follow the label the likelihood of problems increase. If you do follow the label, practice an acceptable standard of applying the pesticides I believe the risk is minimal. Yes there is always some risk. There is in everything we do. A pesticide applicator if he cares to do things right can minimize any risk by simply following the label and having some professional integrity. You can also quote study after study about pesticides causing health and environmental problems, but not without prejudice. To my knowledge no study is definitive. I would also say that any study for or against pesticide use could also be disputed to be fair. We make our living applying chemicals to enhance our customers quality of life. We acknowledge the risk, accept it and do our best to limit exposure to ourselves and our customers. I have worked outside in the sun for over 30 years. I have reduced my risk to sun cancer by wearing sun screen and a hat. I have also applied a lot of chemicals over those years. Taking all the precautions deemed needed. If I get skin cancer tomorrow who's to say what caused it? If your stupid you increase your risk. You don't need a study to tell you that!

LawnTamer
02-17-2009, 03:45 PM
As I operate out of my home, I have often worried about the effects of pesticides on me and my family. I used to store pesticides in my garage. I always hated that, as it is attached to my home. Now I have a building dedicated to pesticide storage.

My old boss, that taught me this business NEVER used ppe. Always spraying in a t-shirt, no gloves. He died in his 50s of lung cancer. Now, I don't know why or how he contracted lung cancer, but I can tell you he wasn't a smoker. I look at how many chemicals we used to apply 20 yrs ago....products sales reps told us were safe, that have been banned now.

Be careful, use ppe. It may be a pain to always wash your work clothes separately then run the washing machine empty, but do it.

I think that if you do follow the proper precautions, then using these products becomes no more dangerous than the other threats we deal with, like injury, allergens, sun exposure etc.

americanlawn
02-17-2009, 04:29 PM
My Dad is 89 years old & healthy. He farmed all his life. One thing most don't realize is "personal protection devices" often "trap" concentrated pesticide residues against the skin (and eyes).

I have never known a person in the AG business to die (or getting sick) from pesticides, but we have experienced physical injuries caused by tripping over aprons, fogged up goggles, and loose fitting gloves.

I know what the laws are. Been licensed since 1978. Graduate hort degree too. But I believe in common sence even more. You can thank "left-winger radicals" for much of this. My 2 cents worth.

nik
02-17-2009, 05:15 PM
If you don't follow the label the likelihood of problems increase. The best part is that goes for just about anything involving pesticide use.

Pesticides are dangerous. They are designed to kill or repel living organisms. The inherent risk is mitigated by proper use of product, which includes wearing PPE. Chronic exposure to any agent will cause issues at some point.

I would be more concerned about what you wear when you mix as opposed to applying. Pesticides at application concentrations are less of a risk than what's sitting in the jug. Pay attention to how you go about your use and you shouldn't have a problem.

I'd be more worried about direct exposure to gasoline, antifreeze, hydraulic fluids, engine exhaust, sunlight, hornets, poison oak, fire ants, lawn tools and kid's toys you can't see and sop on.

phasthound
02-17-2009, 05:24 PM
I know what the laws are. Been licensed since 1978. Graduate hort degree too. But I believe in common sence even more. You can thank "left-winger radicals" for much of this. My 2 cents worth.

And you can thank a lot of people with common sense who have helped implement a lot of good laws and regulations that have saved a lot of suffering from pesticide misuse. These regulations require in depth studies be done before pesticides are approved for use. They require training for professionals. They require professionals to follow the label. Without regulations such as these, we would have a lot more problems that require more tax money to be spent on to clean up. I'm all for lower taxes as long as those responsible for causing a problem pay for rectifying it.

"Common sense is not so common" Voltaire

Ric
02-17-2009, 05:53 PM
Surferbum

May I suggest you use all organics so you will only have to worry about dieing from E coli bacteria.

Surferbum21
02-17-2009, 06:16 PM
Surferbum

May I suggest you use all organics so you will only have to worry about dieing from E coli bacteria.

haha. i was thinking of offering the old fashioned pull every weed IPM system. so those of you that have been spraying for extended periods of time have no health problems you can contribute to spraying? Really I just want to do this for a few years and then have 1 or 2 trucks and employees doing it for me.

americanlawn
02-17-2009, 06:36 PM
We have more lakes & streams closed down every spring & summer due to "natural fertilizers" being emptied into our watersheads The term "organic" has nothing to do with safety whatsoever. I rest my case. So does the Iowa DNR. Thanks Ric -- good post. :usflag:

UOTE=Ric;2778284]Surferbum

May I suggest you use all organics so you will only have to worry about dieing from E coli bacteria.[/QUOTE]

mikesturf
02-17-2009, 08:00 PM
I've been fertilizing for 5 years and I got scared shi$less when after getting out of the shower and looking in the mirror, I noticed one of my testicles was hanging lower than my other 2. :laugh: Wear ppe, also replace gloves often.

Ric
02-17-2009, 08:02 PM
haha. i was thinking of offering the old fashioned pull every weed IPM system. so those of you that have been spraying for extended periods of time have no health problems you can contribute to spraying? Really I just want to do this for a few years and then have 1 or 2 trucks and employees doing it for me.

Surferbum

You are typical of what is wrong with America today. "Get someone else to do it for you"

What ever happen to work ethics??? While big companies have their advantages they also have their faults. Going from a one-two man operation to 10 man or more takes a long period of very little return from your effort. The truth is a small low over head operation has more margin and money in the owners pocket than a bigger headache of multiply employees. Every problem your employee will become your problem. Why put yourself through that grief when you can make more money in the long run with less hassle. Take this from someone who has been there and done that.

Runner
02-17-2009, 09:01 PM
I have been lkajgflak;sdfjgh laksdhj using chemicals for years and ldkhjfiovoa never had any problems.

My daughter was jasdol ;gapmoij born with a full head of hair, more than I have. There is nlka n;soipmjwolk; nothing wrong with a little alksd gjhamoi exposure.

Just kidding, someone had to do it.

Have a good day!!!l;kdsa gjamoie jlkaesj oi[su[iqo


Ahh,..Hoots? Remember when you told us to tell you when that "thing" was happening? Well...It's happening. Go outside,...take some deeep breaths of fresh air,... and exhale slowly... :laugh:

rcreech
02-17-2009, 09:04 PM
I bought a pair of chemical chaps last week and wore them this week. I was amazed at how much chemical I was getting on my jeans. I was using blue dye and the front of my chaps were completely covered. I guarantee ya I will be using them every time I spray. I could usually see a little dye on my jeans but---man this was an eye opener.

What was the reason?

Windy?

Spillage?

Just curious...as this doesn't sound typical!

rcreech
02-17-2009, 09:10 PM
My old boss, that taught me this business NEVER used ppe. Always spraying in a t-shirt, no gloves. He died in his 50s of lung cancer. Now, I don't know why or how he contracted lung cancer, but I can tell you he wasn't a smoker.


I agree that respecting these products is very very important...but don't think you can link to cancer (as you have already stated...somewhat).

There is a girl in our church (22 years old) and she is dying of brain cancer and I have another friend and his dad is full of tumors. Very health guy and has never smoked or been around chemicals and he is actually a photographer.

Hard to say I guess...but I think it will be what gets us all!

rcreech
02-17-2009, 09:12 PM
Surferbum

May I suggest you use all organics so you will only have to worry about dieing from E coli bacteria.

:laugh:

Love it!

LawnTamer
02-17-2009, 10:26 PM
Surferbum

You are typical of what is wrong with America today. "Get someone else to do it for you"

What ever happen to work ethics??? While big companies have their advantages they also have their faults. Going from a one-two man operation to 10 man or more takes a long period of very little return from your effort. The truth is a small low over head operation has more margin and money in the owners pocket than a bigger headache of multiply employees. Every problem your employee will become your problem. Why put yourself through that grief when you can make more money in the long run with less hassle. Take this from someone who has been there and done that.

I think it depends on where you are in life, and what you enjoy, and are good at. I've been a solo operator, and I have had up to 6 employees at once. I have to say that I am most comfy running 2 trucks, with 3 employees. I find I can maintain very nice margins, I can keep on top of my people, take the one on one time to make sure they are trained and doing a good job. I prefer it to being solo for a few reasons:
1. I get tired of working alone, it feels good to have a team, to have help.

2. I can take a day off, and still make money. Once you have a team who know how to work well, and are trustworthy, it is the best. I have taken a week off in August, something I could never do solo. I was in NY, saw Niagara Falls, and still made good money. You can call that being lazy, I call it reaping a reward for hiring, and training good employees, and giving them a system to work in.

3. I have made some great friends. Weird reason huh? But it is true. Whoopassonthebluegrass and I are close friends, not just because I married his sister, but because of the time we spent together when he was working with me. I have employees who have gone on to become pharmacists, CPAs, teachers, I enjoy our friendship, as do they. I get calls and emails from them, it is fun to see them grow, and know that part of their success has come from work lessons they learned with me.

I can see the benefit from being solo, and frankly Ric, your business model is pretty danged ideal in many ways, but not everyone wants to work alone, and some of the employee challenges that you hated, may be the challenges someone else enjoys working through.

ted putnam
02-17-2009, 10:38 PM
I think it depends on where you are in life, and what you enjoy, and are good at. I've been a solo operator, and I have had up to 6 employees at once. I have to say that I am most comfy running 2 trucks, with 3 employees. I find I can maintain very nice margins, I can keep on top of my people, take the one on one time to make sure they are trained and doing a good job. I prefer it to being solo for a few reasons:
1. I get tired of working alone, it feels good to have a team, to have help.

2. I can take a day off, and still make money. Once you have a team who know how to work well, and are trustworthy, it is the best. I have taken a week off in August, something I could never do solo. I was in NY, saw Niagara Falls, and still made good money. You can call that being lazy, I call it reaping a reward for hiring, and training good employees, and giving them a system to work in.

3. I have made some great friends. Weird reason huh? But it is true. Whoopassonthebluegrass and I are close friends, not just because I married his sister, but because of the time we spent together when he was working with me. I have employees who have gone on to become pharmacists, CPAs, teachers, I enjoy our friendship, as do they. I get calls and emails from them, it is fun to see them grow, and know that part of their success has come from work lessons they learned with me.

I can see the benefit from being solo, and frankly Ric, your business model is pretty danged ideal in many ways, but not everyone wants to work alone, and some of the employee challenges that you hated, may be the challenges someone else enjoys working through.

I am exactly where you are Tamer and I think it's a good position to be in. I went to Florida this past year and was comfortable knowing my help was holding down the "Fort". It was nice...Nice because I could actually relax and nice because my wife wasn't pissed at me 2 days into the trip because I was looking at my phone to much or worrying about what was happening "back home" with the business.

Ric
02-17-2009, 11:35 PM
I think it depends on where you are in life, and what you enjoy, and are good at. I've been a solo operator, and I have had up to 6 employees at once. I have to say that I am most comfy running 2 trucks, with 3 employees. I find I can maintain very nice margins, I can keep on top of my people, take the one on one time to make sure they are trained and doing a good job. I prefer it to being solo for a few reasons:
1. I get tired of working alone, it feels good to have a team, to have help.

2. I can take a day off, and still make money. Once you have a team who know how to work well, and are trustworthy, it is the best. I have taken a week off in August, something I could never do solo. I was in NY, saw Niagara Falls, and still made good money. You can call that being lazy, I call it reaping a reward for hiring, and training good employees, and giving them a system to work in.

3. I have made some great friends. Weird reason huh? But it is true. Whoopassonthebluegrass and I are close friends, not just because I married his sister, but because of the time we spent together when he was working with me. I have employees who have gone on to become pharmacists, CPAs, teachers, I enjoy our friendship, as do they. I get calls and emails from them, it is fun to see them grow, and know that part of their success has come from work lessons they learned with me.

I can see the benefit from being solo, and frankly Ric, your business model is pretty danged ideal in many ways, but not everyone wants to work alone, and some of the employee challenges that you hated, may be the challenges someone else enjoys working through.

Tamer

My business model is part time for two goals. # 1 it gives me a reason to get out of bed in the morning. At 68 years old I want more that nothing to do and all day to do it. # 2 the extra money pays for my social life which is fairly active since you seldom see me posting this time of night. Fact is I normally post after 9:00 when I wake up and before noon to 1:00 when I go out and spray lawns. I might post around 6:00 or 7:00 before going out to dinner. Sometimes I will post while in front of a customers yard from my truck. If I go away I can catch up by working 6 or 7 hours days.

But having been there with 20 employees and done the stress trip I have no desire to have the big show again. But I will admit as a single parent the big show put two kids through college with cars and spending money and one through University of Miami Medical School which isn't cheap. My only regret was not getting my retail nursery off the ground because Hurricane Charlie blew it away before it could get going. My wholesale nursery did well enough to buy the retail nursery.

mngrassguy
02-17-2009, 11:59 PM
I saw a list once, something like "putting risk into perspective". If I remember correctly, pesticide use was ranked like # 17. Top of the list was taking a shower. More people are hurt in the shower than anywhere else in the home. Next was crossing the street. Followed by riding a bike and driving a car. Something like that.

mngrassguy
02-18-2009, 12:07 AM
Here's one I just found with a quick google search

The following table** shows how pesticides rank in comparison to other tested hazards in terms of their effect on life
expectancy. As supported by scientific data, this list starts with the most risky and follows through to the least risky:
1. Smoking
2. Alcoholic beverages
3. Motor vehicles
4. Handguns
5. Electrical power
6. Motorcycles
7. Swimming
8. Surgery
9. X-rays
10. Railroads
11. General aviation
12. Large construction
13. Bicycles
14. Hunting
15. Home appliances
16. Fire fighting
17. Police work
18. Contraceptives
19. Commercial aviation
20. Nuclear power
21. Mountain climbing
22. Power mowers
23. Scholastic football
24. Skiing
25. Vaccinations
26. Food colouring
27. Food preservatives
28. Pesticides
29. Prescription antibiotics
30. Spray cans

greendoctor
02-18-2009, 01:01 AM
Let's see, I do not smoke or drink. No motorcycles for me. I will not do construction work. Do not go mountain climbing, play football or go skiing. I also avoid doctors, hospitals and antibiotics. Preservatives and food colorings are something else I avoid as well, I do not like the idea of food that the bugs and mold do not go near or food that looks bad unless it has Dye No. whatever in it. Yeah I am no fun. However, I drive, swim and spray. From where those things are positioned on the list, I am more likely to be killed on the road or in the ocean rather than by my job.

Ric
02-18-2009, 01:03 AM
Let's see, I do not smoke or drink. No motorcycles for me. I will not do construction work. Do not go mountain climbing, play football or go skiing. I also avoid doctors, hospitals and antibiotics. Preservatives and food colorings are something else I avoid as well, I do not like the idea of food that the bugs and mold do not go near or food that looks bad unless it has Dye No. whatever in it. Yeah I am no fun. However, I drive, swim and spray. From where those things are positioned on the list, I am more likely to be killed on the road or in the ocean rather than by my job.

Green

You lead a very dull life.

greendoctor
02-18-2009, 01:07 AM
Green

You lead a very dull life.

Yes I do, intend to be around for a long time as well. Money and life are two things I do not waste.

Ric
02-18-2009, 01:12 AM
Yes I do, intend to be around for a long time as well. Money and life are two things I do not waste.

Green

At 68 years old I am very lucky to have excellent health and a family history of longevity. Maybe that is why I believe in the Quality of Life not the Quantity of Life.

whoopassonthebluegrass
02-18-2009, 01:13 AM
One thing most don't realize is "personal protection devices" often "trap" concentrated pesticide residues against the skin (and eyes).

This is why we're offering a Topless-Spray-Service for 2009. I get extra money AND it's safer.

... the extra money pays for my social life which is fairly active since you seldom see me posting this time of night...

Did they raise the rates again on your Canasta Club?

Ric
02-18-2009, 01:16 AM
This is why we're offering a Topless-Spray-Service for 2009. I get extra money AND it's safer.



Did they raise the rates again on your Canasta Club?

No Whooped

It was Wednesday morning Bingo and the meals on wheels program that went up.

greendoctor
02-18-2009, 01:18 AM
Green

At 68 years old I am very lucky to have excellent health and a family history of longevity. Maybe that is why I believe in the Quality of Life not the Quantity of Life.

My family has a history of dying young and from painful, debilitating illnesses(cancer, stroke, heart disease, autoimmune disorders). I am trying to make it past 65 without any of that. Most of them smoked, drank or ate crap. However none of them handled as much pesticides as I do.

ted putnam
02-18-2009, 08:48 AM
Let's see, I do not smoke or drink. No motorcycles for me. I will not do construction work. Do not go mountain climbing, play football or go skiing. I also avoid doctors, hospitals and antibiotics. Preservatives and food colorings are something else I avoid as well, I do not like the idea of food that the bugs and mold do not go near or food that looks bad unless it has Dye No. whatever in it. Yeah I am no fun. However, I drive, swim and spray. From where those things are positioned on the list, I am more likely to be killed on the road or in the ocean rather than by my job.

Greendoc, watch your back while swimming. I went to Maui a few years back and the week after I got back home there was a lady killed and half eaten by a Tiger Shark in a cove that I had gone snorkeling in...

LawnTamer
02-18-2009, 09:33 AM
My family has a history of dying young and from painful, debilitating illnesses(cancer, stroke, heart disease, autoimmune disorders). I am trying to make it past 65 without any of that. Most of them smoked, drank or ate crap. However none of them handled as much pesticides as I do.

That is me too. Both grandfathers died of cancer, fairly young. Both grandmothers died fairly young too, 1 stroke, 1 of pneumonia complications (an auto-immune disorder).
My mother died at 63, after fighting cancer for 4 yrs. My dad at 68 has had horrible health for the past 15 yrs, skin cancer, diabetes, all sorts of other problems.

I don't drink, smoke, don't even use caffeine. I have been trying lately to eat healthier, but it is hard. I am used to eating too much red meat.:cry: Been trying to eat way more fish, chicken, veggies, and fruit.

It is interesting, it actually costs a lot more to eat healthy.

Ric
02-18-2009, 10:10 AM
Yo

When your time comes, your time comes. No need to worry about it because you won't remember dieing. If you want to spend your life eating applesauce and dry toast so be it. But I like turf and surf and have no problem woofing down a Grease Spoon Burger. Red Meat is no problem for me. But I have great DNA and take no medication because my lab work is good. Of course as I brag I might die today, But at least I am happy and don't fear death.

phasthound
02-18-2009, 01:12 PM
Whoop,

Guess what? I gotta feva....and the only prescription is more COWBELL!

phasthound
02-18-2009, 01:17 PM
Yo

When your time comes, your time comes. No need to worry about it because you won't remember dieing. If you want to spend your life eating applesauce and dry toast so be it. But I like turf and surf and have no problem woofing down a Grease Spoon Burger. Red Meat is no problem for me. But I have great DNA and take no medication because my lab work is good. Of course as I brag I might die today, But at least I am happy and don't fear death.

I don't fear death. But I've seen both my father and father-in-law suffer for years before their time came. I want to remain healthy while I'm here and so I make some lifestyle changes accordingly.