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Jnbravo
02-17-2009, 03:03 PM
Last summer I posted some questions on quiting General Motors and starting a spraying business. Well as everyone knows GM is getting worse. I should of taken the $70,000 mI was offered back in June. Now there offering $20,000 and a $25,000 car voucher. Not alot. I may try and keep my job, I will probably get laid off and be able to work all summer. I have taken and passed my test. My question. Getiing a com. pest. busi. lic. in Mich. you need 2 years exp. or a four year degree. I have over six years exp., over ten years ago. Family owned buss. But I was never certified. I found out I can fill out a pre-approvel application to save money and see where im at. What I want to know is.....Besides the truth; is there another way to insure a more sucessful chance in being approved. Any loop holes? I know theres always hiring someone who has the exp. But I want this to be a one man show for now. I have the exp. I just dont think the State is going to see it that way. Thanks for any help.

LushGreenLawn
02-17-2009, 04:47 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but back when I was laid off, I did not recieve $20,000 and a $25,000 car voucher. I got a two week notice so I could find another job. Consider yourself lucky.

americanlawn
02-17-2009, 05:05 PM
Ditto. If you're able to build the finest trucks in America, you shoud easlily be able to pass the needed tests. BTW we proudly run Chevy & GMC 2500HD's. If it ain't American :usflag:, it ain't our cup of tea.

Good luck -- you'll do fine. :waving:

grassman177
02-17-2009, 06:06 PM
fords, all the way, haha

Runner
02-17-2009, 09:25 PM
The only other way there is, is that you hire an actual licensed applicator into your business. the trick is, is that you have to have enough work to keep them busy (otherwise, they'll be looking elsewhere...they have to live). Other than that,...and this is the best remedy...hire in with someone that does this, and get your required certified experience. Besides the gfact that alot has changed in the last 10 years and that you will actually be doing different stuff (WAY different) than you were for the family buiness, you can stand to gain ALOT of good knowledge - that is actually more relevant to what you will be doing. Get in with someone good...and you can realy learn alot about the sciences and technical stuff involved. Do NOT go to one of the franchises, because there is a good chance you will come out of there with less knowledge than you went IN with... You want to learn how to GROW GRASS, not just spray some cookie cutter CRAP down that does a middle of the road job...all the while, you're not even learning anything except "bust your hump production". Where abouts are you, anyway?

Jnbravo
02-18-2009, 03:48 PM
First off.. Ive already passed the tests. Michigan has strict regulations as to who gets a Business lic. Needing a 4 year degree or 2 years exp. I was never cert. when I got my exp. 2nd. If I get laid off, I dont get $20,000 and a$25,000 voucher. Thats the buyout. But if you take it...bye bye medical. So trying to get business going while laid off and still keep my job at GM. 3rd, Thanks for buying American. Of course now a days if you buy a GM vehichle, it doesnt mean it was made by American workers. Your pretty safe with the trucks though. I live in the Lansing area. I have a friend who graduated from Mich State in Turf mang. could I put his name on as a worker and just send him a small check every 2 weeks. He lives in Ohio. But I could say he comes up every other weekend to work. If he agrees, that should work as far as getting a business lic.???? I understand that a healthy turf resist most things and the less pesticide applied the better....not saying I dont have alot to learn though, Im sure I do. But I plan on going slow. And continually educating myself. Thanks again guys.

Runner
02-18-2009, 05:32 PM
If he has a 4 year (Bachelor degree) AND one year certified experience or the accepted equivalent of by MDOA (they have changed the requirements to 4 year degree + 1 year experience), is able to show proof he lives in Michigan, then he can test for active certifications here in Michigan. When he tests, he can't just test for Certified Technician, but he has to test for a Licensed Applicator (different test). At that point, your license application will state his name and Michigan certification number, and they will have record of his certification to verify it. Mind you, when you sign this application form, you are swearing to the fact that the information contained is true to the best of your knowledge. Furthermore, when your friend signs the proof of experience documentation, he is swearing to the same thing,...including he fact that he lives in Michigan, to carry the license. This is also sworn to and signed by the Notary Republic. Is you friend willing to go out on the limb for this?

Jnbravo
02-20-2009, 03:37 PM
He has all of that and then some. Worked for Philly Baseball team and now a minor league team in Ohio. Havent talked to him yet about this in detail yet. I wouldnt put his Lic. in harms way. Just wondering if he could have two residents. And if he did do some work for me through out summer, plus consulting, I figured it would be legal. I will ask the MDA. The last thing I want to do is start this thing off on the wrong foot. Worse comes to worse I will put add in paper for someone around here that has the lic. What should I pay him or her...$12.00/hour??? Or maybe Ill just go work for a golf course this summer and get my exp. You said they changed the rules. Can I still get a bus. lic. with over two years of lic. exp.??? Even if it takes me two years from now to get it. Just dont want to start this If I cant finish it. Thanks again.

Runner
02-20-2009, 07:15 PM
Sent you a PM.

Ric
02-20-2009, 08:49 PM
Jn
Being a very Candid person I have to say I have a problem with those who try and loop hole the law. I am in a State with hard requirements and even harder testing than other states. I paid my dues as do most people who are licensed in my state. I am sorry that you might lose your big buck union job with all the benefits. But out here in the real world we have to scramble for our living and pay our dues. People B1tch because Florida has such strict policy, But even then there are already Too many CPOs in Florida and many who left the trade because they couldn't make it.

Jnbravo
02-21-2009, 02:38 PM
Runner; thank you for the advice.... Ric, Where you just bored and had to make a comment or something. Ive spent over ten years in the lawn care bus. when I was younger. if that aint paying your dues then I dont know what is. Ten years of that a couple in concrete and ten in a factory building cars...what "real world" do you think you live in that i havent. The goverment has a policy and i have the exp, just not the paper work. So i was looking away around it. If you say you havent disagreed with your goverment and tried a loop hole or two, your a liar or an idiot. maybe both. Dont write on my board if you dont have something constructive to say.

Ric
02-21-2009, 06:08 PM
Jn

I am glad you replied because I didn't speak my total mind the first time. I don't care how many years you had way back when. They weren't documented and therefore they don't apply. Cutting grass doesn't take a rocket scientist and if you were spraying without a Documented Card you were doing it illegal. You have a lot of nerve coming on a Internet forum asking those who paid their dues legally to help you find loop holes and work Illegal.

But what I didn't Nail you on the first time, was your attitude about only wanting to spray long enough to sit on you butt and hire others to do your dirty work. Attitudes like your is why America is in the economic shape it is today. No one wants to work, only collect big money while Pedro and Juan do the work or Wang Lee and Sue Wong make it and ship it to this country.

What ever happened to old fashion work ethics? What happened to pride of profession or trade? It went south with attitudes like your.

IA_James
02-21-2009, 06:13 PM
What ever happened to old fashion work ethics? What happened to pride of profession or trade? It went south with attitudes like your.

Actually, it went south with NAFTA, PNTR for China, and the baby boomers mollycoddling their kids until they were convinced that no matter what they did it was right. Thanks for playing though. Jn would be celebrated as a budding entrepreneur on here if he hadn't let slip he was a union member.

Rayholio
02-23-2009, 03:18 PM
My 1st job, I was part of a union.. at dillons grocery store... I quickly learned that working was not a job requirement.. I came in hours late, took extra long lunches, and breaks.. then spent most of my time on the clock hiding behind pallets reading magizines... After 3 years, they finally 'suspended' me for no-call no showing 3 times in two weeks..

We had cashiers making $12 an hour in the 80s with full medical, and up.. When walmart came to town, That store didn't stand a chance...

I'm anti-union because I've seen what unions do.. COST UNION WORKERS THEIR JOBS, because a unionized company filled with employees VOTING THEMSELVES MONEY cannot compete with a non-unionized company, where employees are judged, and paid based on the quality of their work, and content of their character.

Unions had a place a long time ago when they started, but everything unions were founded to accomplish is now federal law, and they only exist so that the employees can take advantage of the employer.

IA_James
02-23-2009, 03:38 PM
My 1st job, I was part of a union.. at dillons grocery store... I quickly learned that working was not a job requirement.. I came in hours late, took extra long lunches, and breaks.. then spent most of my time on the clock hiding behind pallets reading magizines... After 3 years, they finally 'suspended' me for no-call no showing 3 times in two weeks..

We had cashiers making $12 an hour in the 80s with full medical, and up.. When walmart came to town, That store didn't stand a chance...

I'm anti-union because I've seen what unions do.. COST UNION WORKERS THEIR JOBS, because a unionized company filled with employees VOTING THEMSELVES MONEY cannot compete with a non-unionized company, where employees are judged, and paid based on the quality of their work, and content of their character.

Unions had a place a long time ago when they started, but everything unions were founded to accomplish is now federal law, and they only exist so that the employees can take advantage of the employer.

So let me get this straight, you hate unions because you were a lazy POS? Am I reading that right?

Rayholio
02-23-2009, 03:52 PM
So let me get this straight, you hate unions because you were a lazy POS? Am I reading that right?

No.. I don't hate unions.. I just don't support them, and my earliest experience with a union was one where they could not fire an employee (me)which was doing nothing but costing the company money.

People have proven time and time again, that they will generally do the least amount of work, for the greatest possible pay-out. and if they can vote themselves more payout.. they will. That's exactly what I, and many other union employees have done.. and continue to do.

MnLefty
02-23-2009, 04:38 PM
Bravo-

I don't have a dog in this fight, but when you cut through the pi$$ing contest to the topic at hand Ric is 100% correct on this one.

"What I want to know is.....Besides the truth; is there another way to insure a more sucessful chance in being approved. Any loop holes?"

"I have a friend who graduated from Mich State in Turf mang. could I put his name on as a worker and just send him a small check every 2 weeks. He lives in Ohio. But I could say he comes up every other weekend to work."

"The goverment has a policy and i have the exp, just not the paper work. So i was looking away around it."

Three different times in this thread you post looking to cheat the system. You're not going to get a lot of help or sympathy from professionals going about it that way. To those that do it the right way you are no different than the unlicensed, uninsured lowballers. You brought GM into the discussion, you asked for help cheating the system, then you lost your cool and took the first shot in the dirt at Ric... And you expect somebody to help?

Runner
02-23-2009, 05:44 PM
Thank you. That was a good post....:)

Ric
02-23-2009, 09:03 PM
MnLefty

Thank you for the "Ric is Right" it is always nice to read those words.

Jnbravo
02-24-2009, 11:26 AM
Look. Ric may have been correct. But he was the first one to take the shot at my "mindless job" and that in his "real world" comment. So your wrong on that. For all I know you guys could of done your two years of work exp. and then went right out and got a business lic. I have three times that, but because I was 16 at the time I just worked with the family and learned the trade. I wasnt trying to get a lic. without the exp. And I am no where near like those who dont have the exp or a lic and spray anyway. I will not do that. Runner told me the best way is to hire someone with the exp. or go get it when lic. with someone else. But he said it in a respectful way and I thanked him. Ric is just a pompass ass. And should never try to imagine that he knows me or anything that I am about. To be honest, there is alot of you on here who think there above those who are trying to come into this business or are in it, and asking questions. I have news for ya, your no genius nor looked upon in sociaty as a contributer to anything but a lawn boy. So you should deflate those over sized egos a little. As for the union, well I wont get into that much. It would end up a never ending battle. The Union is still necesarry in some situations. Medical, labor rights, lack of work protection. and so on. A single mother whos child gets sick and misses work all the time can not be fired. And then again there is and always will be lazy ass people who will take advantage of someone or something just because they can.

Rayholio
02-24-2009, 01:10 PM
I don't take offense to the 'lawn boy' statement... but if you go into this with an attitude like 'it doesn't take a genous, stupid' You'll get to use your insurance very often.. maybe even your lawyer. Like trugreen :)

you're right.. that Union deal would be a never ending debate.. I really don't think it is nessisary any more.. and many places allready have socialized laws on the books to cover your examples of why it's needed.. I can agree to disagree on this one ;)

daveyo
02-24-2009, 01:49 PM
Look. Ric may have been correct. But he was the first one to take the shot at my "mindless job" and that in his "real world" comment. So your wrong on that. For all I know you guys could of done your two years of work exp. and then went right out and got a business lic. I have three times that, but because I was 16 at the time I just worked with the family and learned the trade. I wasnt trying to get a lic. without the exp. And I am no where near like those who dont have the exp or a lic and spray anyway. I will not do that. Runner told me the best way is to hire someone with the exp. or go get it when lic. with someone else. But he said it in a respectful way and I thanked him. Ric is just a pompass ass. And should never try to imagine that he knows me or anything that I am about. To be honest, there is alot of you on here who think there above those who are trying to come into this business or are in it, and asking questions. I have news for ya, your no genius nor looked upon in sociaty as a contributer to anything but a lawn boy. So you should deflate those over sized egos a little. As for the union, well I wont get into that much. It would end up a never ending battle. The Union is still necesarry in some situations. Medical, labor rights, lack of work protection. and so on. A single mother whos child gets sick and misses work all the time can not be fired. And then again there is and always will be lazy ass people who will take advantage of someone or something just because they can.

Woa!!!! someones having a bad day......lawn boys don't make money, professionals make money, there's a lot that goes into making a business run, the first thing is doing it professionally from the start. It takes years of working in and out of the business to become a professional. It doesn't happen working for someone else, it just doesn't. There are way to many aspects of the business to consider, way to many.

lawnsofsnh
02-24-2009, 07:47 PM
this lawn boy is able to send his kids to private schools,have winters off and has owned a local lawn care business for sixteen years.

keep talking is all I say....

phasthound
02-24-2009, 08:29 PM
People have proven time and time again, that they will generally do the least amount of work, for the greatest possible pay-out. and if they can vote themselves more payout.. they will.

Sounds like a corporate CEO. :)

ted putnam
02-24-2009, 10:56 PM
Look. Ric may have been correct. But he was the first one to take the shot at my "mindless job" and that in his "real world" comment. So your wrong on that. For all I know you guys could of done your two years of work exp. and then went right out and got a business lic. I have three times that, but because I was 16 at the time I just worked with the family and learned the trade. I wasnt trying to get a lic. without the exp. And I am no where near like those who dont have the exp or a lic and spray anyway. I will not do that. Runner told me the best way is to hire someone with the exp. or go get it when lic. with someone else. But he said it in a respectful way and I thanked him. Ric is just a pompass ass. And should never try to imagine that he knows me or anything that I am about. To be honest, there is alot of you on here who think there above those who are trying to come into this business or are in it, and asking questions. I have news for ya, your no genius nor looked upon in sociaty as a contributer to anything but a lawn boy. So you should deflate those over sized egos a little. As for the union, well I wont get into that much. It would end up a never ending battle. The Union is still necesarry in some situations. Medical, labor rights, lack of work protection. and so on. A single mother whos child gets sick and misses work all the time can not be fired. And then again there is and always will be lazy ass people who will take advantage of someone or something just because they can.

You also have a 3rd option. You can move from the state that seems to be holding you back and re-locate to another that will allow you to take their test. Otherwise, you just have to take the steps necessary to be legal where you are. It sounded like you had this on your mind months ago. I would have taken the larger buyout offered then and used that money to live on while I followed my dream. Oh well, hind sight is 20/20. As far as society and what they think of me. I really don't care. They may very well see me as a lawnboy. That's fine. THIS lawnboy makes a very comfortable living. Much better than many of his customers. I actually had a customer call me "weedboy" once. I told him he needed to find someone else to care for his property and I got in my truck and left. He called and apologized and asked me to come back. He was shocked that I had fired him. He was the one who always did the hiring and firing...at work and at home. It's called mutual respect. It may not take a rocket scientist to treat lawns. Anyone can spread13-13-13 and spray some R-Up here and there...right? What separates Professional Lawncare Operators from Lawnboys is doing the job properly. Proper products, Proper equipment, proper licensing and credentials. You may or may not actually know what you are doing but you will need that last one to show you are a professional, not just a lawnboy.

Rayholio
02-24-2009, 11:22 PM
Sounds like a corporate CEO. :)

Sure... and like everyone else too.. including those in politics.. boss's, employees, bums, and the independatly wealthy.. It's human nature to want something without working for it..

Ric
02-25-2009, 09:04 AM
You also have a 3rd option. You can move from the state that seems to be holding you back and re-locate to another that will allow you to take their test.

Ted

You bring up an interest point about CLOSED & OPEN ENTRY to a trade or certification. I am not going to talk the environmental side which certainly is a biggie, but the economic side.

My own state is a 3 year apprenticeship before taking what one time was considered the hardest test in the nation. Even with a degree I had to work for a year before taking the test. As a result we get better prices than States with Open entry or where anyone can take as simple test. We have our share of competition, but nothing like states where every newbie has a license and is applying.

Even in my State there are pockets where Rent A License runs ramped. These areas have real low ball pricing because of the lack of effort put into acquiring a license. From a self pride stand point I value my license more than someone who put little or no effort into getting their license. At the same time I am less likely to jeopardize my license by miss using it or applying illegal products.

ted putnam
02-25-2009, 10:28 AM
Ric

I agree with you. My license is a source of pride for me as well. I was a lawn tech for 5 yrs and a tree/shrub tech for 2 before I ever took either test. I was not required to, it's just the way it worked for me. I totally disagree with the rent-a-license concept. To me, if you want to start a spraying business, you're the one that will be in control and therefore should be the one licensed. Just my point of view. I know many businesses have investors "money men" if you will but that's a whole other angle in my book. To me, the leader should lead. He can't do that unless he knows exactly what he is doing. The only way he can prove he knows what he's doing is to take the test and become licensed. I realize that's not fail safe, but in my book it's a good start.

Ric
02-25-2009, 07:41 PM
Ted

Rent A License is illegal and most don't even try to hide the paper work. While it happens all over my state, The Miami area seems to be the worst.

I am going to disagree with you about a Money Man. Depends on the Money Man, a sharp guy can go into a technical business knowing nothing about the Science if he has and relies on a good tech. Any business has 3 major parts. Production whether is is service, products or manufacturing. Sales, and Management are the others. A good tech is not necessarily a good salesman and vice a verse a. But good manager knows how to delegate and support his employees.

ted putnam
02-25-2009, 08:03 PM
Ted

Rent A License is illegal and most don't even try to hide the paper work. While it happens all over my state, The Miami area seems to be the worst.

I am going to disagree with you about a Money Man. Depends on the Money Man, a sharp guy can go into a technical business knowing nothing about the Science if he has and relies on a good tech. Any business has 3 major parts. Production whether is is service, products or manufacturing. Sales, and Management are the others. A good tech is not necessarily a good salesman and vice a verse a. But good manager knows how to delegate and support his employees.

Ric

I'd like to respectfully ask you a question. What happens when that "good" licensed tech quits for whatever reason and leaves that "good" manager who doesn't really know anything about lawncare and is unlicensed? Does the business continue to operate illegally and just "wing it" until they can again find a licensed person to hire? Granted, I'm talking about a small operation(between 5-10 employees). It seems to me that leaves the operation in a "pickle" and maybe even hung out to dry. Short of an airtight contract of some sort, the situation would be very shaky to say the least. JMO

Ric
02-26-2009, 09:22 AM
Ric

I'd like to respectfully ask you a question. What happens when that "good" licensed tech quits for whatever reason and leaves that "good" manager who doesn't really know anything about lawncare and is unlicensed? Does the business continue to operate illegally and just "wing it" until they can again find a licensed person to hire? Granted, I'm talking about a small operation(between 5-10 employees). It seems to me that leaves the operation in a "pickle" and maybe even hung out to dry. Short of an airtight contract of some sort, the situation would be very shaky to say the least. JMO

Ted

Under the Laws in my state, That business can apply for an emergency license for one year. They can in fact do that for 12 months in a three year period. A loop hole might be that two CPOs could keep 3 companies running. but don't try it for any period of time..

But my point is there are different expertises that are needed to run a successful business. A true businessman can use his management skills to run any business because business is business. A good manager is able to employ the egg head scientist to do the technical stuff. By the same theory a good technical guy should hire a business manager. My education is technical. If I had it to do over, I would have taken more business classes. As it is I learned business by the school of hard knocks.

Now from an experience stand point. I have a friend who was a Controller for a large company. About 10 years ago he wanted a life change and went into the tree trimming business. To this day he still can't operate a chain saw. but he has a very successful business.