PDA

View Full Version : Ok guys and (gals) I need help


mowerman111
02-19-2009, 02:23 PM
Was checking customers system yesterday it is on a well with a pressure tank, turned on zones 1-5 no problems got to # 6 with pop ups and they were surging up and down looked at pressure gauge and the needle was surging also. Turned on #7 which is drip no problems at first then I could see the poly tubing start surging, turned #1 back on that zone has RB maxi paws on it, no problems went back to #6 same thing started surging went back through all stations no problems even the drip worked fine this time. Does this sound like a valve problem? With #7 doing once it but not doing it again makes me unsure.

I thought maybe # 6 was demanding more water but I would think the other zones with maxi paws would be more demanding. I hope this makes sense

Wet_Boots
02-19-2009, 02:40 PM
What kind of pressure range are you seeing? Is this surging or cycling (pressure switch operation)

TRILAWNCARE
02-19-2009, 02:48 PM
Check the bladder pressure in the pressure tank.

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 03:04 PM
Maxis don't need much pressure. Is it your install? Did it ever work?

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 03:04 PM
What kind of pressure range are you seeing? Is this surging or cycling (pressure switch operation)

I'll check the pressure, It did seem to be cycling on and off but why mostly on one zone.

(Check the bladder pressure in the pressure tank.) How do you do that and at what pressure does it need to be at. Wouldn't it cause problems through out.

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 03:09 PM
Maxis don't need much pressure. Is it your install? Did it ever work? No it is not mine, don't know about if it ever worked a new yard for us. Not sure if HO knows anything will be meeting with the husband about it tomorrow. Also found out that zone # 8 waters grass with pop ups also has drip hooked up with it :nono:

TRILAWNCARE
02-19-2009, 03:16 PM
How do you do that and at what pressure does it need to be at. Wouldn't it cause problems through out.

Through the charge valve (if it has one) with a tire pressure gauge.

http://www.doh.wa.gov/ehp/dw/Publications/331-342_4-18-06.pdf

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 03:16 PM
No it is not mine, don't know about if it ever worked a new yard for us. Not sure if HO knows anything will be meeting with the husband about it tomorrow. Also found out that zone # 8 also has drip hooked up with it :nono:

Put it off; buy me lunch when we're there in March & I'll take a look.

Kiril
02-19-2009, 03:18 PM
# 8 waters grass with pop ups also has drip hooked up with it :nono:

You can match PR rates of drip and sprays .... so technically it is doable .... BUT you should never mix unless your back is to the wall and you have no other option, mostly because chances are better than good the areas being watered are two different hydrozones.

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 03:25 PM
Put it off; buy me lunch when we're there in March & I'll take a look.

Hey I'm the best at putting things off thats why I'm sitting in front of the computer right now instead of working. Oh and I hope you'll be here before the 22 of March otherwise I'll be passing you going to California.

Wet_Boots
02-19-2009, 03:26 PM
The cycling may be on zones with insufficient flow, and could point to clogged filters (Maxipaws will pass debris that other heads won't) or maybe a pressure switch that needs adjusted.

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 03:26 PM
You can match PR rates of drip and sprays .... so technically it is doable .... BUT you should never mix unless your back is to the wall and you have no other option, mostly because chances are better than good the areas being watered are two different hydrozones.

Yup.......not something one wants to do, but.......

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 03:36 PM
You can match PR rates of drip and sprays .... so technically it is doable .... BUT you should never mix unless your back is to the wall and you have no other option, mostly because chances are better than good the areas being watered are two different hydrozones.

PR rates whats that? nobody around here uses those they either work or they don't :laugh: I'm thinking there might be more valves than there are wires in the controller only found one valve box with four valves so far, but there are three sets of multi strand wires in the clock. I might be pulling out the 521

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 03:39 PM
The cycling may be on zones with insufficient flow, and could point to clogged filters (Maxipaws will pass debris that other heads won't) or maybe a pressure switch that needs adjusted.
I didn't think of that the filters that is

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 03:44 PM
Looks like I have my work cut out. Careful Mike I might put you to work :laugh:

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 04:02 PM
Looks like I have my work cut out. Careful Mike I might put you to work :laugh:

:::::::Reserves table at La Posta::::::::::

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 04:05 PM
Hey I'm the best at putting things off thats why I'm sitting in front of the computer right now instead of working. Oh and I hope you'll be here before the 22 of March otherwise I'll be passing you going to California.

So do you think you'll be here before the 22nd ?

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 04:14 PM
So do you think you'll be here before the 22nd ?

Yup, are you moving or just cruising? I hear Kiril is hiring.

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 05:33 PM
Cruisin' going to visit step kids.

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 05:46 PM
Cruisin' going to visit step kids.

Will work for Margaritas. :drinkup:

Waterit
02-19-2009, 07:01 PM
Mowerman -
Is there a hose bibb on the pump? If there is, open it and see what happens.
If the flow surges and falls as it did through the valves, it could be draw-down in the well (level of water in well dropping below screen, sucking air). You need a new well, or you might be able to sleeve this one.

To test the tank, put a pressure gauge on so you can find out cut-in and cut-out pressures. Then shut off power to pump, drain system down, and check the tank pressure at the charge valve, usually on the top of the tank.
Tank pressure should be 2PSI below cut-in pressure; add or bleed off air accordingly. If water shoots out when you check tank pressure, the bladder is shot, get a new tank.

I'll work for straight tequila, but it's gotta be top-shelf.

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 08:37 PM
Mowerman -
Is there a hose bibb on the pump? If there is, open it and see what happens.
If the flow surges and falls as it did through the valves, it could be draw-down in the well (level of water in well dropping below screen, sucking air). You need a new well, or you might be able to sleeve this one.

To test the tank, put a pressure gauge on so you can find out cut-in and cut-out pressures. Then shut off power to pump, drain system down, and check the tank pressure at the charge valve, usually on the top of the tank.
Tank pressure should be 2PSI below cut-in pressure; add or bleed off air accordingly. If water shoots out when you check tank pressure, the bladder is shot, get a new tank.

I'll work for straight tequila, but it's gotta be top-shelf.

Thanks for the suggestions I'm going to check it all out.

Well I don't know if I can afford you and Mike but If your willing to come out here the three of us can sit around and drink tequila and look at the well. :laugh:

bicmudpuppy
02-19-2009, 09:59 PM
Mike, put a time table (good rough guess) on this repair. I'll join the consulting crew if I can get a free lunch out of the trip :)

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 10:10 PM
Mike, put a time table (good rough guess) on this repair. I'll join the consulting crew if I can get a free lunch out of the trip :)

It's such a great restaurant in La Mesilla, it could take weeks. :clapping:

hoskm01
02-19-2009, 10:25 PM
Mike, put a time table (good rough guess) on this repair. I'll join the consulting crew if I can get a free lunch out of the trip :)
Good grief. Four of you for tequila and enchiladas?

:::puts 10 bucks on nothing getting done with the well:::


Where do I sign up to join?



http://www.sbwater.org/Images/GWG/episode%20five_arrivals.jpg

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 10:31 PM
[QUOTE=hoskm01;2784710]Good grief.QUOTE]

Great pic, Matt. :laugh::laugh:

mowerman111
02-19-2009, 10:59 PM
[QUOTE=hoskm01;2784710]Good grief.QUOTE]

Great pic, Matt. :laugh::laugh:

That is an original,

Maybe I will put the customer off till March and we can all meet at their house after La Posta, anybody else here want to go? I dont want to leave anybody out.

Mike Leary
02-19-2009, 11:03 PM
Prolly teach Peter a thing or two. I think he had breakfast at La Posta.

hoskm01
02-19-2009, 11:45 PM
...............................

hoskm01
02-19-2009, 11:55 PM
.........................

hoskm01
02-20-2009, 12:03 AM
...............

Mike Leary
02-20-2009, 01:50 PM
...............

I know what the problem is and I'm not telling until the margaritas start flowing.

DanaMac
02-20-2009, 01:52 PM
I know what the problem is and I'm not telling until the margaritas start flowing.

Well, I can start pouring and drinking them now, but I'm not sure how that helps you. :laugh:

Mike Leary
02-20-2009, 01:54 PM
Well, I can start pouring and drinking them now, but I'm not sure how that helps you. :laugh:

Like I need help from you upstarts.

hoskm01
02-20-2009, 01:58 PM
I know what the problem is and I'm not telling until the margaritas start flowing.
Bluff=called.


Ill drink margaritas today too. That makes 2.

DanaMac
02-20-2009, 01:59 PM
Like I need help from you upstarts.

Tell you what, I'll teach you how to drink a margarita. Pro bono. Nada. No charge. My good deed for the winter :) And if it takes me a few lessons of drinking over and over and over, so be it.

Mike Leary
02-20-2009, 02:04 PM
Tell you what, I'll teach you how to drink a margarita. Pro bono. Nada. No charge. My good deed for the winter :) And if it takes me a few lessons of drinking over and over and over, so be it.

Carefull, I'm a slow learner.

DanaMac
02-20-2009, 02:07 PM
Carefull, I'm a slow learner.

We'll see what we can do.

Wet_Boots
02-20-2009, 02:21 PM
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

hoskm01
02-20-2009, 09:28 PM
Carefull, I'm a slow learner.
And he had his liver re-routed straight to the bladder. Could drink for weeks.

Mike Leary
02-20-2009, 09:32 PM
And he had his liver re-routed straight to the bladder. Could drink for weeks.

Cheaper than hiring one of you guys; besides, I know what's wrong.

hoskm01
02-20-2009, 10:00 PM
Cheaper than hiring one of you guys; besides, I know what's wrong.
But employing one of the jackals here would make drinking that much more rewarding.

Mike Leary
02-20-2009, 10:10 PM
But employing one of the jackals here would make drinking that much more rewarding.

I still can't get my screen back in order after the google post.

hoskm01
02-20-2009, 10:12 PM
I still can't get my screen back in order after the google post.
oh, BS. 600x300 is tiny. I cant hardly make anything out.


Call Mac and ask for the trifocal package.

hoskm01
02-20-2009, 10:19 PM
Cheaper than hiring one of you guys; besides, I know what's wrong.
Im drinking a Melbac in your honor.


2007 was a great year for Melbac

Mike Leary
02-20-2009, 10:21 PM
I cant hardly make anything out.

Somehow, I knew that about you the first time we met.

hoskm01
02-20-2009, 10:34 PM
So here is what I get on all of my pics in Firefox.

try it as an attachment this time.




Its the scaled part. Who the eff is scaling my pictures?

Mike Leary
02-20-2009, 10:57 PM
I'm not going to push any of your buttons; I'll regret it down the line.

hoskm01
02-20-2009, 11:50 PM
I'm not going to push any of your buttons; I'll regret it down the line.
Push away.

If you were a piece of fish, Id put grains of salt all over you.

irrigationgrl
02-21-2009, 07:50 AM
You can match PR rates of drip and sprays .... so technically it is doable .... BUT you should never mix unless your back is to the wall and you have no other option, mostly because chances are better than good the areas being watered are two different hydrozones.

Say wut Kiril? Tell me please why you can't water two different hydrozones, one for drip and the others for spray...on the same system? Most of us do here in California...so what's the problem? As long as you have the drip on its own station, running off it's own valve and you have the proper back flow device and water pressure regulator and a good filter installed there is no problem.

Am I reading you right? Or did I read you wrong?

mowerman111
02-21-2009, 09:32 AM
Say wut Kiril? Tell me please why you can't water two different hydrozones, one for drip and the others for spray...on the same system? Most of us do here in California...so what's the problem? As long as you have the drip on its own station, running off it's own valve and you have the proper back flow device and water pressure regulator and a good filter installed there is no problem.

Am I reading you right? Or did I read you wrong?

He was refering to me saying that one zone of the system has sprinklers and drip hooked up together. I'm not sure if they are plumbed together or two valves are wired together in the valve box. I wont know until I locate the valves.

Kiril
02-21-2009, 09:36 AM
Am I reading you right? Or did I read you wrong?

Appropriate section highlighted above.

irrigationgrl
02-21-2009, 09:59 PM
He was refering to me saying that one zone of the system has sprinklers and drip hooked up together.

I'm so very sorry Kiril. I missed that part. I will try to read more carefully. I should have known you knew that.

Mike Leary
02-21-2009, 10:09 PM
Or did I read you wrong?

No, I mean yes if it was a different thread. We tend to get confused around here and juxtapose answers/comments on different threads. Best to stay on top of the posts, 'cause one of your answers could be on a thread that had nothing to do with your question.

mowerman111
02-21-2009, 10:43 PM
No, I mean yes if it was a different thread. We tend to get confused around here and juxtapose answers/comments on different threads. Best to stay on top of the posts, 'cause one of your answers could be on a thread that had nothing to do with your question.

Was there a question?

mowerman111
02-21-2009, 10:51 PM
Was there a question?

Oh yea lunch at La Posta

Oh wait it was about the well I forgot

Which by the way after a little investigation Friday I think might be the valve, It still is acting up on the one zone only. I'm going to start by topping out the valve then if that doesn't take care of it then I will check pressure at the pressure tank and so on.

Mike Leary
02-21-2009, 10:55 PM
I'm going to start by topping out the valve

What are you going to look for when you "top out", mescal worm casings? :dizzy:

mowerman111
02-21-2009, 11:30 PM
What are you going to look for when you "top out", mescal worm casings? :dizzy:

Keep it up hijacker!!!

Mike Leary
02-21-2009, 11:55 PM
Keep it up hijacker!!!

It could be the the valve, doubt it; it could be the pumping system, doubt it.I think it's the zone that's asking for more than the system is set up to do. I'd have my pump guys adjust the 40-60 switch first, that could do it, could also play hell with the other zones. Everyone jokes about me carrying blank nozzles & zeri-caps; start capping off heads, could be over-zoned, could have a serious leak in the laterals.Got any spare wire and zones at the clock?
You now owe me a service call at La Posta.

mowerman111
02-22-2009, 01:49 AM
I didn't think to take count of heads, but it is just a small section of lawn, the next zone looks to have about the same amount of heads and drip on it no problems, the larger zones have maxi paws and gear drives I would have thought they would demand more, when I had the problem zone on the pressure switch was kicking on and off fast. Checked voltage at the clock to make sure nothing funny their. I hope to have more time this next week to devote to it and I figured I would just start with a new diaphragm first and go from there. If that doesn't work than I will follow advise one step at a time Oh and there is wire but no extra slots. Will keep you posted.

Waterit
02-22-2009, 01:57 AM
when I had the problem zone on the pressure switch was kicking on and off fast.

Either the zone isn't demanding enough to keep the pressure switch on or the pressure switch needs tweaking.

AI Inc
02-22-2009, 07:45 AM
Sounds like its time to renozzle that zone and then adjust run time.

Mike Leary
02-22-2009, 10:16 AM
I'm thinking wiper seal failure adding to the problem, too.

Sprinkus
02-22-2009, 10:49 AM
What is the location of the pressure switch in relation to the pressure tank?
Look here (http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/pressureswitch_3.html) for issues regarding pressure switch problems.

If the system was not designed to allow the pump to run continuously then a "constant pressure valve" like the Cycle Stop Valve (http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/geninfo_1.html) may need to be installed.

DanaMac
02-22-2009, 10:53 AM
I'm thinking wiper seal failure adding to the problem, too.

On all the zones at once though? Probably causing a problem, but it sounds more than the wiper seals.

Mike Leary
02-22-2009, 12:10 PM
On all the zones at once though? Probably causing a problem, but it sounds more than the wiper seals.

Oops, did I miss read the post, I thought it was just one zone that was having
problems. :dizzy:

DanaMac
02-22-2009, 12:11 PM
Oops, did I miss read the post, I thought it was just one zone that was having
problems. :dizzy:

Maybe I'm wrong. I thought it ended up doing it on most or all zones after it was running for a while. I'll re-read.

Mike Leary
02-22-2009, 12:36 PM
Where's the web cam when we need it?

bicmudpuppy
02-22-2009, 03:35 PM
Was checking customers system yesterday it is on a well with a pressure tank, turned on zones 1-5 no problems got to # 6 with pop ups and they were surging up and down looked at pressure gauge and the needle was surging also. Turned on #7 which is drip no problems at first then I could see the poly tubing start surging, turned #1 back on that zone has RB maxi paws on it, no problems went back to #6 same thing started surging went back through all stations no problems even the drip worked fine this time. Does this sound like a valve problem? With #7 doing once it but not doing it again makes me unsure.

I thought maybe # 6 was demanding more water but I would think the other zones with maxi paws would be more demanding. I hope this makes sense

Quoting the original to make re-reading easier for everyone. Worn heads or a leak on Zone 6 would do it. The pulsing of zone 7, if it can't be repeated except when it follows 6 means to me we haven't caught back up from the flow in zone 6 yet. Fix 6 and then see if 7 still has a problem. It could be the opposite of a leak too though. A clogged nozzle so that we don't use enough water to keep the pressure switch from cycling could cause the problem too. I also wonder, since I'm not on site, is the pump running continuous while the zones are operating? or does the pump shut off and then come back on with other zones (especially the drip)?

Bush_Baron
02-22-2009, 03:59 PM
Check bladder pressure, also, if the pressure and flow are marginal, you may need to program a zone start delay to allow pressure buildup required to close the previous zone.

rlpsystems
02-22-2009, 09:59 PM
Look at the diameter of the feed tube to the pressure switch. Last time I had a problem with the pressure switch banging on and off I installed a 1/4 fuel shut off valve and used that to regulate flow to switch. Fixed that problem. Also have you seen the electronic flow/pressure sensors?

Wet_Boots
02-22-2009, 10:11 PM
Check the blinker fluid.

rlpsystems
02-22-2009, 10:21 PM
Blinker fluid's fine....Not sure 'bout the naked knome with the orange cone.

irrigationgrl
02-22-2009, 11:05 PM
is the pump running continuous while the zones are operating? or does the pump shut off and then come back on with other zones (especially the drip)?

exactly my line of thought there too ..

rlpsystems
02-22-2009, 11:06 PM
Oh.... Hmmmmm

mowerman111
02-23-2009, 09:26 PM
Quoting the original to make re-reading easier for everyone. Worn heads or a leak on Zone 6 would do it. The pulsing of zone 7, if it can't be repeated except when it follows 6 means to me we haven't caught back up from the flow in zone 6 yet. Fix 6 and then see if 7 still has a problem. It could be the opposite of a leak too though. A clogged nozzle so that we don't use enough water to keep the pressure switch from cycling could cause the problem too. I also wonder, since I'm not on site, is the pump running continuous while the zones are operating? or does the pump shut off and then come back on with other zones (especially the drip)?

Ok went back today did find one clogged nozzle changed head problem solved, zones five and eight started cycling now but both have a couple of stopped up nozzles, eight is the one that has drip running with it. I'm going back with a bunch of sprinklers and change them out. It has the Hunter PS heads on there now so I have to dig them up anyway, I'm sure it will take care of the problem. Yes the pump runs all the time but the tank is pretty small. It does shut off in the time takes to go to the next zone,and it does run all the time with the one drip zone that is by itself.

Waterit
02-23-2009, 09:54 PM
Glad we could be of service:rolleyes:

hoskm01
02-23-2009, 10:17 PM
Does this mean TequilaTimes is off?


::::cancels trip to NM::::

bicmudpuppy
02-24-2009, 12:02 AM
Does this mean TequilaTimes is off?


::::cancels trip to NM::::

Hey, only cancel the last third and I'll buy the golf :)

I will be turning things on at some point this week. The MASTER irrigator is watering the desert tonight!! I can now wait a day or two :)

mowerman111
02-24-2009, 12:17 AM
Yes thanks to you all, bic you were asking about about whether the pump ran all the time should it be running all time?

As far as the tequila I'm sure Mike will take all the credit and still show up.

Waterit
02-24-2009, 12:33 AM
Yes thanks to you all, bic you were asking about about whether the pump ran all the time should it be running all time?

As far as the tequila I'm sure Mike will take all the credit and still show up.

The pump should be running or off, not cycling. Either tweak the cut-in/cut-off adjustment or upsize some nozzles.