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mkempcol
02-24-2009, 09:48 AM
This will be my first year running a fertilizer and weed control program.
I am licensed and insured. Im operating in Southern Idaho and our growing/cutting season is April1 to Oct31 on average. I would appreciate any input on this. I have had some local input but I just thought I would throw it out there and see if any of you have any helpful suggestions that could add to my program.

Proposed plan includes:

Fert late march with 24-2-9 with Dimension 20%PCSCU
Possibly a granular post emerg in may after things pop-up a bit?
-any suggestions on the best products on the above (post-emerg)
Fert june 24-2-9
Fert Aug 24-2-9
Winterizer in Nov 21-2-5
Our cutting/growing season here is April1 to Oct 31 on average
spot spray shrub areas as needed round-up
spot spray turf areas as needed 2-4D
I would like to keep to granular this first year if possible
Do any of you have suggestions for fertilizer for shrubs and trees?
Thanks for all the help everyone
Mike

mngrassguy
02-24-2009, 10:08 AM
We "split" the first application of dimension. We put it down at 1/2 rate 2x, 30 days apart. This will give you pre and post control and your control will last longer into the season. Also, you are "spoon feeding" the N rather than putting it all down at once.

I carry a hand can of Aclaim, MSMA or Drive later in the season to spot spray crabgrass breakthroughs.

Don't waste your $ on granular post weed controls. They seldom work well, if at all.

I use Davey Tree fert myself.

Good luck

tombo82685
02-24-2009, 10:34 AM
This will be my first year running a fertilizer and weed control program.
I am licensed and insured. Im operating in Southern Idaho and our growing/cutting season is April1 to Oct31 on average. I would appreciate any input on this. I have had some local input but I just thought I would throw it out there and see if any of you have any helpful suggestions that could add to my program.

Proposed plan includes:

Fert late march with 24-2-9 with Dimension 20%PCSCU
Possibly a granular post emerg in may after things pop-up a bit?
-any suggestions on the best products on the above (post-emerg)
Fert june 24-2-9
Fert Aug 24-2-9
Winterizer in Nov 21-2-5
Our cutting/growing season here is April1 to Oct 31 on average
spot spray shrub areas as needed round-up
spot spray turf areas as needed 2-4D
I would like to keep to granular this first year if possible
Do any of you have suggestions for fertilizer for shrubs and trees?
Thanks for all the help everyone
Mike

For pre emerge barricade or dimension is best
Not sure if you have forsythias in your area, but the general rule of thumb for when to apply pre emerg is when the forsysthia is in bloom

couple questions:

1. what is the slow release percentage on your june and nov fert app?
2. Do you have a pesticide license?
3. How many lawns do you fertilize? just curious as to how much time you want to really give maintenance and labor wise to the lawns.
4. For the post emerg are you targetting just crabgrass or other weeds as well? If just the crabgrass treat as soon as you see the crabgrass in the lawn. Best time for control is when the crabgrass plant is in the 3-5 leaf stage. Once it starts tillering control becomes harder with each successful tiller.

mkempcol
02-24-2009, 02:11 PM
sounds good on the splitting of the dimension applications
Davey tree fertilizer? Is this a granular, spike or what? Is it effective on a wide rang of trees? Ill look into it but any adivice is great

1. I will check into the slow release, good thought
2. Yes, I am licensed and have insurance policy ready to go, I have a pesticide research background but it was very specialized or isolated work so my general knowledge of what commercial products are out there and how effective they are is not very impressive.
3. Not many, right now I have about 15 residentials bbut I am doing the research now so I know where to go and what to do in future. I am bidding 4 large office complexes and a grocery store property at the moment so if I get them they will be very labor intensive. The more problems I can eliminate by having a solid fert and weed program the better.
4. crabgrass, dandelion, possible tumble weed? One property on the edge of ag land.
Thanks for the help all, I really appreciate any and all imput
mike

Runner
02-24-2009, 02:21 PM
You're going to need to look into a different means to do your post emergent, also. Trying to do it granular, is going to cost you alot of money. Not product-wise,..but labor wise...Quite simply,..It can't be done. Granular is essentially ineffective, and is a guessing game of hit and miss. you will spend more time going back and forth touching up weeds than you will doing actual production. you cn't base a business on chasing after missed weeds all the time...Time goes on, and it is just more time that customers have weeds. Not to mention that it takes alot less product to kill a weed the size of a quarter than it does to kill one 5 inches across.

mngrassguy
02-24-2009, 02:27 PM
Davey Tree fert is a powder that is suspended in water and injected into the root zone under high pressure. I get it from CPS (UAP) or Lesco.

LawnTamer
02-24-2009, 02:52 PM
mkempcol,

Your program is OK, 24-2-9 is a decent blend, you will likely find that your soils have plenty of P, (nearly all great basin soils do) so focusing on N and K is good.
A lot of people talk up dimension, and in certain instances it is a good choice, but I wouldn't use it if I were you. Your warm season weed pressure will be crabgrass, foxtail, spurge, purslane and oxalis. Dimension will do little good on everything but the grasses. I recommend using Barricade (prodiamine) instead. If you can't find a good fert blend with it, I can hook you up with one. You are in Id. so you should be able to use Wilbur Ellis, or IFA, or even Steve Regan, may be others there too.

I would consider adding one more app in May. You will have a lot of weed pressure from dandelions and clover in the spring, and clients won't want to wait till June to see them gone.

Do your round 1 late Mar/early April
2nd round May
3rd round June/July
round 4 Aug/sept, better for fall weed control
round 5 winterizer, as lawns go dormant.

No good granular weed control, so I would agree with what others have said, use granular fert and liquid weed control, you will need more than 2-4-d for the range of weeds you will be facing.

Use 3-way for spring weeds, and then switch to something like Momentum fx in summer.

tombo82685
02-24-2009, 04:37 PM
sounds good on the splitting of the dimension applications
Davey tree fertilizer? Is this a granular, spike or what? Is it effective on a wide rang of trees? Ill look into it but any adivice is great

1. I will check into the slow release, good thought
2. Yes, I am licensed and have insurance policy ready to go, I have a pesticide research background but it was very specialized or isolated work so my general knowledge of what commercial products are out there and how effective they are is not very impressive.
3. Not many, right now I have about 15 residentials bbut I am doing the research now so I know where to go and what to do in future. I am bidding 4 large office complexes and a grocery store property at the moment so if I get them they will be very labor intensive. The more problems I can eliminate by having a solid fert and weed program the better.
4. crabgrass, dandelion, possible tumble weed? One property on the edge of ag land.
Thanks for the help all, I really appreciate any and all imput
mike

When you fertilize in spring dont pound it with nitrogen apply like .5-.75lb of N. The spring is time to build up root growth so it can hold on through summer. If you apply to much N the plant will focus on to much top growth and not on root growth. I asked about the slow release because im not sure if you wanted to go back and spoon feed some of your properites. This is a golf course technique we use but it really helps. If you decide to do this go with an organic fertilizer like milorganite, it wont burn the grass. Apply it at 2 week intervals of about .1-.2 lbs/K. If you don't want to go with spoond feeding make sure on your last fertilize in late may or early june that you have labout 30% percent slow release, as that will slowly feed your lawn throughout most of the summer. On your november fertilization make sure you have about 40-50 percent slow release nitrogen to help feed into the winter months, and it will help with an early spring green up. IBDU is a good choice here. Im not sure if you can access this type of broadleaf herbicide but tricloplyr (confront) works wonders on the ground ivy, purslane, clover, oxalis, violet, etc. I agree with lawn tamer here, P is usually always present in soil in an abundant amount. You really should get a soil test done for these houses or properties because you may be adding things that might not be needed. On a usual soil test P is usually abundant here in the east, while potassium is a little below optimum. Also, a soil analysis will tell you ur pH levels, if your pH is lower then 6 then your nutrients are bounded up in the soil particles, and they are not available to the plant.

tombo82685
02-24-2009, 07:09 PM
Once your into about early to mid september fert aps increase your nitrogen intake to about a 1lb per fert ap to gain back some of the root growth lost during the summer. This is also when you would want to over seed lawns to.

mkempcol
02-26-2009, 02:30 PM
You're going to need to look into a different means to do your post emergent, also. Trying to do it granular, is going to cost you alot of money. Not product-wise,..but labor wise...Quite simply,..It can't be done. Granular is essentially ineffective, and is a guessing game of hit and miss. you will spend more time going back and forth touching up weeds than you will doing actual production. you cn't base a business on chasing after missed weeds all the time...Time goes on, and it is just more time that customers have weeds. Not to mention that it takes alot less product to kill a weed the size of a quarter than it does to kill one 5 inches across.

So the pre-emergent with the fert in early spring. Then a broadcast spray of post emergent as soon as the weeds start coming up? Any suggestions on a good product or tank mix for this broadcast app? I agree that I dont want to be chasing weeds all year, especially on a decent sized property. Is this still the case on a small res property?

Runner
02-26-2009, 02:46 PM
Depending on what you're going after. 3 way is a genera standard. Myself, I like Eliminate LO. we have to use different things in different cases, though (Momentum, etc.) the main thing is,...go from the label, and use the right product for your target(s).

mngrassguy
02-26-2009, 03:00 PM
Then a broadcast spray of post emergent as soon as the weeds start coming up?

I like to wait until ALL the weeds are up and smiling at me before I hit them. If you spray too early, you'll miss the ones that come up after you spray.

mkempcol
02-26-2009, 03:31 PM
OK Ive looked at some labels, and I will look at more, but what I think I need to do is this
fert + pre-emrgence (barricade prefferably) Late March
possibly splitting this application into two apps, one late march and one a few weeks later, maybe three?
Then when the weeds are up and smiling, (early may?) I will put down a grass/broadleaf mix such as acclaim and barricade or acclaim and confront. broadcast.
Probably one more in june such as the above mix? Do you think that would cover me well enough to control the rest on a spot spray basis or will I need more broadcast apps.
I think my target weeds will be crabgrass, foxtail, clover, purslane and dandelion. Im sure there will be more but these are the most common that I see around here.
thanks everyone.

gdigman23
02-26-2009, 09:22 PM
Yeah most of this info applies here...1 at a time...Confront is an excellent chem to use on the hard to control weeds like bind, mallow, ground ivy but its expensive. Millenium Ultra 2 is not as good but more reasonably priced..Summer use a product like Surge thats good up to 90 but i wouldnt apply over 80. The split app of Dimension is always better in the spring but one app combined with Gallery is king spring and fall..spendy but callbacks are nil.its cheaper in the long run.Use the Dimension over the Barricade because most crab appears around edges where the soil temp goes up quicker and dimension is non staining. Milorganite is just a waste of time here..Fert depends on whether the owner is mulching or removing clippings of course..Mulching will add 1 lb per 1000 vs removal so try n talk em into that..Someone will make a thatch argument over that one..lol I also dont recommend granular apps unless they need to be in the soil profile..Any post with a adjuvant(if its recommended) is going to work better. Use a water quality test kit and get your water ph down to 6-6.5 and reduce the hardness with a product with a buffer..Q4 is the deal to use for post crab emergence..And its very true to apply your pres when Forsysthia is in bloom and before lilacs bloom..Tree fert best is something around 20-15-15 and an 8 iron separate..This formulation has to be made special for our horticulture dept so just get something close..And the argument about 2-4D not causing resistance continues but I would use it a year or two then change to something with a different MOA...good luck

tombo82685
02-26-2009, 09:41 PM
I wouldnt say milorganite is a waste of time, its just up to the person if they want to spend the time and spoon feed lawns. Milorganite is a great organic fert during heat of the summer for feeding the lawns it doesnt have a high burn potential like most urea/amonium sulphate ferts. It also contains iron needed for photsynthesis for chlorophyll production. Iron is more of a greening up for lawns without the excessive growth.

NINER
02-26-2009, 09:56 PM
i havent read all the posts yet but if you dont have a sprayer which will make things easier get a backpack and spot spray the weeds. if you just use granular you need to be on each property about the time the sun rises to use the dew as a sticker.

gdigman23
02-26-2009, 10:04 PM
No offense on the Milorganite comment..Working in a cemetery the size of mine i have tried almost all organic ferts because there is the fear of staining concrete, marble, granite, etc.. I have just found other methods easier and more effective especially for homeowner/commercial sites..yeah if you have the time its a good spoon/ As for the questioner,,keep things simple,,especially when you are just getting started out in this economy. A lot of these chemicals are expensive..Nothing like Tenacity, but it depends on your capital investment..My input is strictly if you have the capital..If not let everyone know and we will come up with something that will help you succeed..Always remember IPM is the best

tombo82685
02-26-2009, 10:13 PM
No offense on the Milorganite comment..Working in a cemetery the size of mine i have tried almost all organic ferts because there is the fear of staining concrete, marble, granite, etc.. I have just found other methods easier and more effective especially for homeowner/commercial sites..yeah if you have the time its a good spoon/ As for the questioner,,keep things simple,,especially when you are just getting started out in this economy. A lot of these chemicals are expensive..Nothing like Tenacity, but it depends on your capital investment..My input is strictly if you have the capital..If not let everyone know and we will come up with something that will help you succeed..Always remember IPM is the best

Yea i didnt mean it in a mean way or a shot at you. I was just saying it for houses and the people who have to time and money to do so. I didnt know you did cemetaries, I deffinetely wouldnt use it their do to how much time that would be consuming spreading that every 2 weeks or so. I have sprayed tenacity to get rid of the bent grass in are roughs. It was pretty scary for a couple weeks becase it turned all the grasses that were sprayed white, phytotoxicity.

gdigman23
02-26-2009, 10:43 PM
Its actually not phytotoxicity with the Tenacity..thats how you know its working but it is scary lol

tombo82685
02-26-2009, 10:46 PM
yea, well it blighted everything pretty well, lol

gdigman23
02-26-2009, 10:49 PM
Its only labeled here for use on golf courses and sod farms and i used it on a sod farm because well the label is impressive...I have never watered anything so much afterward...

mkempcol
02-26-2009, 11:13 PM
Thanks for checking all that out. I think as far as the $ goes, i would rather go inexpensive to start. But I would rather have a few good products than have to buy 18 different products. I really do appreciate all the suggestions. I definately have some serious homework on my plate now. I am going to be reading alot of labels. I spoke to someone out of Boise the other day and he said if I am working on decent lawns (which most of mine are) that I am over thinking all of this and that I probably wont need to do anything other than spot spray a few times a year. He uses a pre-em and some trimec. I guess I'll find out here in the next few months. I have also been finding out that all products are definately not readilly available through local dealers here. We have a JD landscape that carries some things and a Wilbur Ellis that carries others. Who do you buy from in ID Falls? Can you get product on line and have it delivered. Once again Ill look into it but welcome the tips and advice.
Thanks for all the info everyone

tombo82685
02-26-2009, 11:18 PM
Its only labeled here for use on golf courses and sod farms and i used it on a sod farm because well the label is impressive...I have never watered anything so much afterward...

whats scary about it is, it says to get a complete control apply 2-3 applications. I was almost ready to cry after 1, i cant imagine another or 2 lol

gdigman23
02-26-2009, 11:25 PM
Use Vessel instead of Trimec..same active ingredient only cheaper..thats your way to go for now and maybe have some Q4, and confront on hand if things get ugly which they shouldnt...

gdigman23
02-26-2009, 11:41 PM
Call Wilbur-Ellis and get ahold of John Fransen..Tell him Jerry from Rosehill Cemetery in Idaho Falls referred you to him to help you start out and he will hook you up...and tell him i said thanks for the gift card to sportsmans warehouse i won off him this week lol.....