Tank size for organic and back flow preventer

[chrisludwig]

I am working on getting my pesticide license in NJ this year and am planning on starting the organic lawn treatments specifically using the ICT Organics compost teas and such.

I spoke with the NJ DEP, and asked if I needed a license to apply organic treatments. He said it depends on what I say it does,what the customer thinks it does, etc... so that was not very clear so I figured might as well get the license anyway just to be safe.

Where can I get a back flow preventer for a garden hose in case I refill with water at customers house? I cant find them anywhere.

Most of the lawns I do are about one acre. How big of a tank would I need to cover that much sq. ft. with organic tea? Is 150 gallon tank enough or do I need to get the 300 gallon?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[treegal1]

:laugh:so you need a pvc pipe fill that does not come close to the opening.......

get the 300:laugh:

[phasthound]

I am working on getting my pesticide license in NJ this year and am planning on starting the organic lawn treatments specifically using the ICT Organics compost teas and such.

I spoke with the NJ DEP, and asked if I needed a license to apply organic treatments. He said it depends on what I say it does,what the customer thinks it does, etc... so that was not very clear so I figured might as well get the license anyway just to be safe.

Where can I get a back flow preventer for a garden hose in case I refill with water at customers house? I cant find them anywhere.

Most of the lawns I do are about one acre. How big of a tank would I need to cover that much sq. ft. with organic tea? Is 150 gallon tank enough or do I need to get the 300 gallon?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Chris,

Who did you speak with at the DEP?

Before I go on, you are right get the license. you will learn a lot from the classes and have less legal issues to keep you awake at night.

If you are applying products that are not registered with the EPA and are exempted by the EPA because they are considered "low impact", you can make some claims regarding pest control.

If you are applying products that do not fit in either of those categories, you cannot make any claims on pest control.

A back flow preventer can be something as simple as providing an air gape that is twice the diameter as the hose.

A 150gal tank should be fine if you can refill during the day at clients' homes, get permission first.

Come to the NJLCA trade show and attend some classes tomorrow. http://www.njlca.org/pages/trade-show.html

I'll be at my booth with Bill from ICT. We'd love to meet you.

[Prolawnservice]

lowes, by the drip irrigation, less than 5.00

[treegal1]

prolawn will that pass for tank fill in NJ?? I had to get the welder out and make a hose holder out of pipe Fl wants 8 times the diameter of the hose, and a check valve

[Prolawnservice]

it passed our dep audit, we use two, I think the spec is double check valve

[bicmudpuppy]

On a HOSE, an AVB (atmospheric vacuum breaker) should pass IF the device is higher than the tank, AND the device must be at the POC (point of connection). That means "no", in case you were wondering. An air gap is an approved method and can be fairly easy to rig/build. A length of 2" pvc longer than the tank is deep by a foot or so with a tee attached to it would work. Put a reducer bushing into the top of the tee and connect the hose to it. I would probably use a threaded elbow at that point, but the open side of the tee insures your air gap and will pass uniform plumbing code. Whether it will pass the education and training of the inspector looking at it is a completely different question.

Tree, if they require that much gap by code in FL, use an extra 2" elbow and extend the distance from the tee to the elbow to meet the exaggerated distance the code wants. As long as the side outlet of the tee is open so that the integrity of the air gap is maintained, you should be good to go. BTW, this works with a fire hose hook up as well, but you have to use larger pipe. For 2" fire hose, I would use 4" pvc and fittings.

[chrisludwig]

I'll be there tomorrow Barry. See you then.
Thanks for the info.

[treegal1]

I just did 1 1/2 aluminum with a slick bracket and plumed it down to the side door and out with a quick connect... the check valve is on top just before the downward curve into the tank. looks great and passed that's all i care about.

[Prolawnservice]

Just sat thru the DEP reg update class today they actually had a slide of a very simular hose connection check valve and said this or an air gap for very large tanks is what we should use.

[Turboguy]

I have always heard one or the other and have not heard of both being required before this. Most places are 7 times the diameter of the supply and they are even tougher on that requiring 8. Oh well, the way they try to make things tough I guess we should be happy we can use water at all.

[phasthound]

Just sat thru the DEP reg update class today they actually had a slide of a very simular hose connection check valve and said this or an air gap for very large tanks is what we should use.

I was too busy to get to any of the classes. Thanks Bill for helping out, couldn't have handled the rush without you.

Pro, did you have a chance to hear Dr. Murphy's talk in the AM? I have arranged for him to visit several of my landscaper clients' job sites so he can have a better understanding of successful organic lawn care. He's not that experienced in this end of the business and tends to talk more about the down falls. Maybe you should invite him to some of your sites. He is open minded and needs to see more success stories.

[Prolawnservice]

I was too busy to get to any of the classes. Thanks Bill for helping out, couldn't have handled the rush without you.

Pro, did you have a chance to hear Dr. Murphy's talk in the AM? I have arranged for him to visit several of my landscaper clients' job sites so he can have a better understanding of successful organic lawn care. He's not that experienced in this end of the business and tends to talk more about the down falls. Maybe you should invite him to some of your sites. He is open minded and needs to see more success stories.

Its funny you ask, He was so down on everything organics the name of the talk should have been changed to "whats wrong with organics or at least how I perceive them". I had to remind myself I was in a room full of pesticide applicators, not to pick a fight, but I was pissed. I took the opportunity to quiz my brother in law on how to diagnose what was wrong in his slides and why. That was worth it, but the rest of it I could have done without.

[phasthound]

Its funny you ask, He was so down on everything organics the name of the talk should have been changed to "whats wrong with organics or at least how I perceive them". I had to remind myself I was in a room full of pesticide applicators, not to pick a fight, but I was pissed. I took the opportunity to quiz my brother in law on how to diagnose what was wrong in his slides and why. That was worth it, but the rest of it I could have done without.

Ah, but never believe something is written is stone. Instead, everything is in a state of change. Jim has moved in recent years. One step at a time. He is looking at alternate methods, I don't think he did earlier in his career. One step at a time. At least he is talking about it now. One step at a time. Call him up, I'll give you his number. Show him some sites. One step at a time.

[Prolawnservice]

I get it, baby steps, sure I'll show him around.

[treegal1]

oh man i wish i had a video of Phil and his baby steps rant / fit he just had.............

he said to be ready for the bombs come Monday.........

[humble1]

I am working on getting my pesticide license in NJ this year and am planning on starting the organic lawn treatments specifically using the ICT Organics compost teas and such.

I spoke with the NJ DEP, and asked if I needed a license to apply organic treatments. He said it depends on what I say it does,what the customer thinks it does, etc... so that was not very clear so I figured might as well get the license anyway just to be safe.

Where can I get a back flow preventer for a garden hose in case I refill with water at customers house? I cant find them anywhere.

Most of the lawns I do are about one acre. How big of a tank would I need to cover that much sq. ft. with organic tea? Is 150 gallon tank enough or do I need to get the 300 gallon?

Thanks in advance for your input.

B-flow and point of connection-

You want to contact the areas plumbing inspector to find out what the backflow preventer requiremnets are in your area. The protection from cross contamination of the public water supply falls completly under the plumbing inspector. If you get it in writing from him, its on him, not you.

I personally find it in poor taste to fill a large tank at a customers home. I would maybe find a small gas station and see if you could trade service for the ability to fill, or pay him a small fee.

[treegal1]

back-flow preventer, thats a whole different animal, here its even on wells!!!! its a large gizmo with a vacuum break and what looks like a 2x check valve and a regulator or some thing in between, it has to be no more than 36 inches from the source, meter, or well pump. and it needs yearly testing to keep your C.OC. and biz #.

water from a customer is sort of bad taste, and not a stable image...........

my water comes from several points, well at the shop or farm. and i have a truck fill at some GC's and a paver/concrete place has great water that i get to use for trade. after that i have 2 lake fill spots i like and a water meter for a hydrant, but thats bad water.........

[Turboguy]

B-flow and point of connection-

I personally find it in poor taste to fill a large tank at a customers home. I would maybe find a small gas station and see if you could trade service for the ability to fill, or pay him a small fee.

I think a lot of this is how you approach it. I have filled at customers homes hundreds of times and they are almost always thrilled to have me do that.

My applications are usually involving hydroseeding. Most jobs I am going to have to refill 2-6 times. When I quote my price I ask about water. I tell them I will come with my first load mixed and ready to spray but I will need to refill X number of times. I usually tell them I can go back to my place to refill but it would help me give them the best price I can if I can refill there. I never have any objections, never am thought to be in poor taste and have even had them hook up two hoses or even a second hose from a neighbors house to fill faster. I will agree however if I just refilled from a customers house without asking or without making him feel it was beneficial that would be in poor taste.

[humble1]

I think a lot of this is how you approach it. I have filled at customers homes hundreds of times and they are almost always thrilled to have me do that.

My applications are usually involving hydroseeding. Most jobs I am going to have to refill 2-6 times. When I quote my price I ask about water. I tell them I will come with my first load mixed and ready to spray but I will need to refill X number of times. I usually tell them I can go back to my place to refill but it would help me give them the best price I can if I can refill there. I never have any objections, never am thought to be in poor taste and have even had them hook up two hoses or even a second hose from a neighbors house to fill faster. I will agree however if I just refilled from a customers house without asking or without making him feel it was beneficial that would be in poor taste.

I am refering to filling a chemical spray tank as poor taste.IMO

Hydroseeding I used to use a 3 " gas pump to fill my 750 gal hydroseeder in like 10 min. If you were filling off of wells at say 6 gal a min it would take over 2 hours to fill, also I wouldnt want to have to replace a multi stage artesian well pump (over a grand) if by chance it decided to crap out when i was filling my tank, orthe well went dry. Not a good idea to fill at a customers home.