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worx
02-24-2009, 08:35 PM
I am interested in the patio area. I need some ideas for lighting the brick benches and columns. I am trying to consider hiding the wire with whichever technique I use. I thought of using something like Unique's Endeavor at the corner of the patio,.....but not sure. Thanks for the ideas.

Lite4
02-24-2009, 10:30 PM
Chase your wire up through the far gutter at the end of the flower bed. Extend the gutter down to the ground if necessary to conceal the wire. Drill through the top back side of the rain gutter into the soffit cavity and run your wire and mount these directly over the benches with some BABs with spread lenses. Hevi lite HL-320
Don't forget to seal your holes in the gutter back up with a watertight epoxy.

Pro-Scapes
02-25-2009, 07:59 AM
Steve ,

whats behind the soffit facing ? Is there ply or just 1x4 ? I m thinking a recessed fixture above the pillars and it will provide some residual light for the benches.

worx
02-25-2009, 08:05 AM
Billy I'm not sure, but I would bet a 1x4 minimum.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-25-2009, 08:32 AM
Sometimes soffit mounted recessed fixtures (pot lights) are your friend. Great lighting doesn't always have to be LV lighting and sometimes it is actually more cost effective to hire in an electrician and install some deep regressed (glare free) pot lights where you need them. You can still use all the low wattage lamps you usually rely on and are left with hidden infrastructure.

Regards.

worx
02-25-2009, 08:47 AM
James this is true, but I look at this as a challenge. I am trying to come up with some creative ways to attack this, without fabbing a junk pile of gizmo parts to get the design I want. I am trying to hone my "critical thinking skills", and trust me this is easier said than done..........for me.

Lite4
02-25-2009, 08:57 AM
Billy,
Do they make retrofit cans that are that shallow to fit in that soffit? That was my first thought as well, those soffits might be deep enough to accept a can. The only problem I see with down lighting in front of the posts is that big downspout on the end one. I would imagine it could be rerouted to the side though.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-25-2009, 10:02 AM
Just so you know, Contrast Lighting (some of the nicest trims in the market) make a compact recessed, retrofit 'can' that can be specified as an integral 120V pot OR it can be delivered as a remotely powered can.

http://www.contrastlighting.com/en/pdf/REM3000.pdf (REM-J3000C)

It is only requires 3 1/8" of depth for installation. I am pretty sure there is no other recessed can on the market that fits in a more shallow space than that!

This way you can use hidden infrastructure, powered remotely by your LV transformer, all the while honing your art and improving your craft. :)

NightLightingFX
02-25-2009, 10:18 AM
James,
To clarify, the fixtures you mentioned use a 12v MR16 lamp right. These would be an alternative to Eddie's "Lightolier"? I am guessing the difference between the "Contrast" and the Lightolier is the size. Are the "Contrast" fixtures expensive?

I am wondering about expense because I am trying to break in with some builders. Lets face it the "Lightolier" is way too expensive for builders to consider at least in my market.
~Ned

Lite4
02-25-2009, 10:22 AM
Nice! Thanks for the link James. I copied it to my favorites for reference when I need one. I appreciate you posting it.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-25-2009, 10:36 AM
James,
To clarify, the fixtures you mentioned use a 12v MR16 lamp right. These would be an alternative to Eddie's "Lightolier"? I am guessing the difference between the "Contrast" and the Lightolier is the size. Are the "Contrast" fixtures expensive?

I am wondering about expense because I am trying to break in with some builders. Lets face it the "Lightolier" is way too expensive for builders to consider at least in my market.
~Ned

Yes Ned, they use 12V MR16 lamps. Contrast is a really innovative manu. of recessed lighting products. They have a huge range of products available in many different series. I prefer their 3000 series offerings as they have some of the nicest, low profile, metallic (and marine grade) trims on the market. The reference I provided above is for a simple recessed can and socket that can be wired into your LV transformer. As such it is very inexpensive (around $10 CAD.) The trim would be any one of a number they make, std. prices. Check out Contrast Lighting online.

Nice! Thanks for the link James. I copied it to my favorites for reference when I need one. I appreciate you posting it.

No problem Tim. The Contrast product line is made here in Canada and is very comprehensive. I especially like their 3000 series of pots and trims as they offer small diameter, low profile, deep regressed, fully adjustable trims in a wide array of metallic and colour options. Even Marine Grade trims now for outdoor applications. I have specified and installed thousands of these over the years. I find their options far superior to those from Halo or Lightolier.

http://www.contrastlighting.com/en/prod.htm#312inches

NightLightingFX
02-25-2009, 11:00 AM
Thanks James, good info

NiteTymeIlluminations
02-25-2009, 03:37 PM
forgive me if I have skimmed and someone has made this suggestion already. I saw something about recessed cans. Recessed cans have the tendancy to flatten a space unless you lay it out perfectly. What I am seeing on this porch is some furniture that most probably will be replaced very soon so when that happens you will have to move the recessed fixtures correct. Unless you are looking to flood the area with flat lighting I don't think recessed cans are your best choice. Recessed cans placed close to the facade and using a wall wash kit may work very nice to create some depth to the room/porch. Then, and I know it would be alot of work I'd place a hevilite 374 or the brand of your choice on each column with a 20 watt par16 of a sort. Lastly I'd accessorize the tables with faux candles from Norex. They have pre hollowed out candloes that you can place a rechargeable flame into.

Once the client has permanent furniture and you are sure they won't move it the mr16 reccessed can would be nice to use centered on the table with a 20 watt esx focussed on the centerpiece. Or a single rose. Something like the picture here.

In areas like this I'd rather create drama so I'd put the downlights on the columns on a dimmer, heavily dimmed as well as the wall washes on the brick facades, then the can with a narrow spot right on the rose about 60% brightness...why not 100%, to create a warmer glow from the mr16 getting it down to about 2400 kelvin.



Again I may have just breezed through this as I'm alot pinched for time.

NiteTymeIlluminations
02-25-2009, 03:41 PM
Also dont forget to light under those benches what a great set up for some under bench lighting to create even more drama and soem more candles of various sizes on those brick columns and planters. You really could create something more than the client even thought possible but using some non-norm techniques here.

NightLightingFX
02-25-2009, 04:59 PM
NiteTyme,
Good points, now you have me thinking about how to light this space as a growing opportunity. My initial thought on how to light this space would be along the lines as what Tim mentioned. After thinking more about it in detail, would it be nessassary to light the outside of the columns? It looks like this is the back yard - not much of a veiwing opportunity for the outside of the columns. Would it be better to down light the columns from the inside? This will help create something visible from inside of the house as well as provide some mood/ambient lighting for sitting on the porch. You also wouldn't have to worry about rain gutter downspurt. I like the idea of down lighting the benches. As far as lighting more of the patio for the mood and function I don't know what to think. I would have to figure out what the customer exactually wants. What do you guys think of that approach???
~Ned

NightLightingFX
02-25-2009, 05:20 PM
It is kind of hard looking at a photo and getting the full feel of the architecture and landscape. After looking at the picture some more. It looks like there is a sidewalk. This would indicate that there might be a viewing angle from outside. I am not sure how important it would be to light the architecture of the house? Or the landscape for that matter considering a backyard/sidewalk view.

Based on the info I have, I don't think I would but too much emphasis on accenting the outside landscape and architecture. I am thinking put a down light between the two columns where the step is? I would appreciate feed back on my thoughts
~Ned

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-25-2009, 05:23 PM
To be honest, I had not considered down lighting the outside of the columns, I was thinking the inside. Grazing them, using the reflected light to fill the space, and perhaps a couple of downlights over the sitting area would be more then adequate. Lighting under the benches could be a nice touch, but it could also make things rather busy - from the looks of things there, getting the wire to under those benches could be a real headache.

I would be wary of grazing or highlighting the brick 'walls' and columns from the ground. That roofline looks like a monster, and having light only from the ground to the soffits would cause a big dark heavy object (the roof) to appear to be floating over everthing. By grazing the columns on the inside surface and then lighting the gardens and paths, you will put the columns (when viewed from the yard) in silouete. Drop a bit of light over the entry step to the porch, and some over the sitting areas. Less is more.

Regards.

klkanders
02-25-2009, 05:28 PM
Ned, I had the same thought from the beginning. Place a downlight between each set of columns in the soffit area. It could cast subtle light on the steps and the benches and also the plantings. Providing more light for the interior space then would be a separate issue.

Keith

klkanders
02-25-2009, 05:34 PM
Steve, Lots of opinions with some different looks. I suggest bringing a few fixtures to the site and try a few of these suggestions. In doing so you will find what fits the clients needs and looks the best.

Keith

worx
02-25-2009, 06:22 PM
Great ideas fella's. I am meeting with the owners tomorrow, and will get into further discussion on "back yard uses". I have a lighting design for the front of the home which is what we will be meeting about. If that goes well then on to the back. I definitely want to down light, casting light across the steps and planters. I also thought of lighting under the benches for added effect, but at the same time I don't want to clutter it up.

I appreciate all the input and advice, keep them brains ah pumpin'.:weightlifter:

NiteTymeIlluminations
02-25-2009, 09:40 PM
I was referring to lighting the inside of the columns not the outside.