Bobcat steel track undercarages

[Stick Pro]

Was just looking at the bobcat site. They have there new steel track undercarages on there. It looks like a whole different desing, i bet that will be one rough rideing machine. Looks mean though.

[Stick Pro]

I would be curious how they hold up. If they do u could take the steel pads off of the chains and bolt rubber pads on there like some of the excavators have. I bet that would save a lot of money not havein to purchase tracks all the time.

[stuvecorp]

Yeah, that would be rough riding. My thought is if you want steel tracks, why not run steel over the tire tracks?

[finegrade]

Guys,

My source tells me that these undercarriages have been in testing for over 2 years in Arizona.
The ride will be rough I agree but imagine the possibilities with a machine like this.
I have always been shy with rubber tracked loaders because of the track and how delicate it is on crushed concrete and rock etc.
This is something I can see myself buying this year, the guys with D3's and D4s will be in some serious sh....
When this thing shows up on site, it could stay there until the job is complete, grading, augering, clean up, pallet forks etc etc.
Finally Bobcat is innovating once more.....

Finegrade,

[bobcat_ron]

I think they have put a limiter on the speed, the weight alone will tear them apart.
They also have added a carrier roller, to keep the tension off the drive motors.

[stuvecorp]

Guys,

My source tells me that these undercarriages have been in testing for over 2 years in Arizona.
The ride will be rough I agree but imagine the possibilities with a machine like this.
I have always been shy with rubber tracked loaders because of the track and how delicate it is on crushed concrete and rock etc.
This is something I can see myself buying this year, the guys with D3's and D4s will be in some serious sh....
When this thing shows up on site, it could stay there until the job is complete, grading, augering, clean up, pallet forks etc etc.
Finally Bobcat is innovating once more.....

Finegrade,

I don't mean to argue with you, I just can't understand how having steel tracks would help? The costs couldn't be any less, right? Wouldn't it rob a lot of power and add more weight on a skid? For just about any project it seems like you have to cross a driveway or hop curbs so the steel isn't a good option. I already compete with the small dozers and think I hold my own with the skid/VTS combo but maybe you do things different.

[Stick Pro]

The idea of a compact track loader is a great thing. It has ruber tracks and it can go anyware a versitle machine. Now that we have steel tracks u are limited to use. I would be currious how much more power it takes to turn these things. I hope they changed to a better drvie motor, i would be afraid if they did not.

[Digdeep]

Guys,

My source tells me that these undercarriages have been in testing for over 2 years in Arizona.
The ride will be rough I agree but imagine the possibilities with a machine like this.
I have always been shy with rubber tracked loaders because of the track and how delicate it is on crushed concrete and rock etc.
This is something I can see myself buying this year, the guys with D3's and D4s will be in some serious sh....
When this thing shows up on site, it could stay there until the job is complete, grading, augering, clean up, pallet forks etc etc.
Finally Bobcat is innovating once more.....

Finegrade,

I don't know how many additional "possibilities" steel tracks will offer most contractors. I think it would do more to limit what you could do with a machine of that size. It wouldn't be much good in residential settings because it would damage just about everything it crawled over...curbs, sidewalks, grass, asphalt, etc. Wasn't that one of the advantages of rubber tracks? I would see it's main advantage in a brush cutting application in rocky conditions where damage to tires and rubber tracks would be a problem. Most of my augering, grading, clean-up, pallet fork work is done on a site where rubber tracks or tires work just fine. Trinidad & Tobago must have some harsh conditions.

[bobcat_ron]

The steel tracks are aimed at recycling companies like scrap yards where even sold tires get chunked up, or smaller land fills where a $150,000 dozer or track loader drives over the garbage, but it's too big for the job, or a rock quarry with some clean up to do in conveyor wash pits.

[Dirt Digger2]

the guys with D3's and D4s will be in some serious sh....




hahahah atleast i got my laugh today.....no they won't, they'll laugh at you and wonder why you bought such an expensive machine that you will have to retire at 3000hours

[Treemow]

It will be excellent for the mulching business. I just wish it was Takeuchi. Operational speeds are slower so steel would absolutely work. I hope this catches on. I would love to see a 140 hp Tak with steel tracks.

[lawnboyblake]

I would love to see a 140 hp Tak with steel tracks.

They already have one...it's called a Supertrak.......Nice machine

[Treemow]

It's hard to get Spertrak rates in this economy.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

Ill have to go try one for some fun

[Tigerotor77W]

I'm wondering if they bulked anything up. If they were out running in AZ for two years, I'm assuming they did... but I'm curious to see how these pan out. Takes CTL to a whole new level if it works well.

[bobcat_ron]

If it was a good idea, Takeuchi would have done it a long time ago, I think Bobcat is just testing the waters with this, Deere is soon to follow, I just wonder when Cat will announce it.

[t190]

i saw pics and my grampa saw them months ago ron..... peroria

[Digdeep]

hahahah atleast i got my laugh today.....no they won't, they'll laugh at you and wonder why you bought such an expensive machine that you will have to retire at 3000hours

I agree with you DirtDigger. There is no way that a approx. 10000lb machine with a grouser blade on the loader arms will come close to pushing with a D3 that weighs around 17000lbs. From the photo it doesn't look like they did anything to beef up the loader arms and I would question how well they would hold up with a dozer blade and the extra traction that steel tracks would produce.

[bobcat_ron]

i saw pics and my grampa saw them months ago ron..... peroria

Oh crap, I was hoping they wouldn't have done that.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

It looks cool and dont u all know thats what sells

[finegrade]

I agree with you DirtDigger. There is no way that a approx. 10000lb machine with a grouser blade on the loader arms will come close to pushing with a D3 that weighs around 17000lbs. From the photo it doesn't look like they did anything to beef up the loader arms and I would question how well they would hold up with a dozer blade and the extra traction that steel tracks would produce.

Guys you are right, it does not completely match with the size of a D3, with that being said, numerous times, a D3 is not used for that heavy of a job, at least here, it is used for more finish grading with some sand or crusher run.
The Bobcat may be slower in terms of production, I can live with that.
The rubber tracks does not hold up well on crushed rock, some guys get like 500 - 600 hours on 247 Rubber Tracks,

Finegrade

[Digdeep]

Guys you are right, it does not completely match with the size of a D3, with that being said, numerous times, a D3 is not used for that heavy of a job, at least here, it is used for more finish grading with some sand or crusher run.
The Bobcat may be slower in terms of production, I can live with that.
The rubber tracks does not hold up well on crushed rock, some guys get like 500 - 600 hours on 247 Rubber Tracks,

Finegrade

I could see it working really well in crushed rock. My only concern is that it would still be limited to where you could use it because of the damage it would cause to most surfaces. It just seems odd to me that a small machine like that wouldn't offer the same flexibility that a skid steer or CTL would. Your conditions down there or out West in the Rockies might be a perfect fit.

[bobcat_ron]

A steel tracked CTL running over and turning on grass won't do nearly as much damage as a rubber track, now assuming the tracks are triple grousers and (hopefully) the pads are curved on the ends like the Kobelco Blade Runners, that's a better idea!

[Digdeep]

A steel tracked CTL running over and turning on grass won't do nearly as much damage as a rubber track

:confused::confused::confused:

[bobcat_ron]

:confused::confused::confused:

Steel slides over turf easier than rubber, and if the turf is wet, it's even easier, I lost a few jobs in the past against my Dad's PC-60's because he could turn around corners with out scuffing up the lawn when the mini ZX27 would have left track marks everywhere.

[Digdeep]

Steel slides over turf easier than rubber, and if the turf is wet, it's even easier, I lost a few jobs in the past against my Dad's PC-60's because he could turn around corners with out scuffing up the lawn when the mini ZX27 would have left track marks everywhere.

The tread pattern I see in the photo isn't much like the larger dozer grouser pattern you're talking about. I can't see those tracks "sliding" anywhere easily on grass. I love your crazy cat and all, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one.:waving:

[bobcat_ron]

The tread pattern I see in the photo isn't much like the larger dozer grouser pattern you're talking about. I can't see those tracks "sliding" anywhere easily on grass. I love your crazy cat and all, but I'm going to disagree with you on this one.:waving:

Dozer's use a single grouser, excavator's use a triple grouser, track loaders (and forestry excavators) use a double, the more grousers, the less damage to surfaces, the Bobcat pictured has triples, Supertrak's use double grousers.

Singles do major cutting and scuffing while turning, doubles aren't that bad, but it depends on the width of the pad, triples do the least amount compared to an aggressive tread pattern like the CTL crowns use, that's why McClaren is offering the multi-bar tread pattern to simulate the triple grouser tracks.

If the edges of the tracks were curled up, they would ride over turf even easier to prevent the track pads from digging in.

[#1 Catman]

If it was a good idea, Takeuchi would have done it a long time ago, I think Bobcat is just testing the waters with this, Deere is soon to follow, I just wonder when Cat will announce it.

Cat will not release steel tracks for at least 2yrs. With all the layoffs there is no resources to develop it. Cat will focus on there customers and hold off on new introductions due to the economy. Hat's off to Cat and others to stay alive. However If you want Steel Track for a Cat CTL look no further. I have it. How many conversion kit do you want? This is a good market and great for the forestry, recycling, and the heavy dirt guy's. Would recommend to have 2spd turned off. not needed with steel.

[bobcat_ron]

The brochure I got from Bobcat yesterday, does anyone know if they use planetaries on the steel undercarraiges?
I saw 2 drain plugs on the side, but I thought those were for the bearing drains.

[#1 Catman]

I believe they are using the same drive motor as the ctl's. All they changed is sprocket and rollers

[Tigerotor77W]

However If you want Steel Track for a Cat CTL look no further.

Whoa. Are those bolt-on steel pads or full-on links, like Cat's larger machines?

[#1 Catman]

Whoa. Are those bolt-on steel pads or full-on links, like Cat's larger machines?

This kit is a steel chain with sealed/lubricated pins and bushings then 18" steel pads bolt to the chain. It is the same stlye as a dozer track. If anyone is interested you can PM me for availibility.

[Digdeep]

This kit is a steel chain with sealed/lubricated pins and bushings then 18" steel pads bolt to the chain. It is the same stlye as a dozer track. If anyone is interested you can PM me for availibility.

Looks like a Berco system.

[#1 Catman]

Looks like a Berco system.

Yes it is. But extra links to match up with the long track length.

[#1 Catman]

It will be excellent for the mulching business. I just wish it was Takeuchi. Operational speeds are slower so steel would absolutely work. I hope this catches on. I would love to see a 140 hp Tak with steel tracks.

Got it. Supertrak SK140STR 140hp. need more info PM me. or go to www.supertrak.com

[JDSKIDSTEER]

I would be curious how they hold up. If they do u could take the steel pads off of the chains and bolt rubber pads on there like some of the excavators have. I bet that would save a lot of money not havein to purchase tracks all the time.

#1 How heavey would that make the machine.

#2 We can't hardly sell steel tracks over tire these days...Every one wants a rubber track machine to cross concrete and asphalt.

I just do not see it. They make regular loaders to fill that nitch.

[Junior M]

#1 How heavey would that make the machine.

#2 We can't hardly sell steel tracks over tire these days...Every one wants a rubber track machine to cross concrete and asphalt.

I just do not see it. They make regular loaders to fill that nitch.
And if you want a dozer you'd buy a dozer, I dont quite get the point of the steel undercarriage except for the mulching industry, but still the guys that mulch still use there machine for dirt work so it still wouldnt be all that usefull imo.. Maybe there is some advantage I am not seeing?

[YellowDogSVC]

#1 How heavey would that make the machine.

#2 We can't hardly sell steel tracks over tire these days...Every one wants a rubber track machine to cross concrete and asphalt.

I just do not see it. They make regular loaders to fill that nitch.

I ran steel OTT tracks on a couple of Bobcat 863's, an s250, and s220 back when I ran two machines regularly. I had enough complaints from repeat, well paying customers, that I made the decision to take off the tracks permanently and I have never gone back. Granted, there are times when I need a tracked machine but running plain rubber has allowed me to work on any improved surface if necessary.
I spent some time last night thinking about this thread and the applications for steel CTL tracks. What I came up with was dirt moving and excavation, some demolition work, brush mulching in some environments, and work around aggregates. I couldn't think of too many other areas where the extra weight and steel option would be of much benefit but I'm sure I left something out.

I would love to have a CTL as my second machine to use in limited situations but haven't been able to justify the purchase. I would really have a hard time justifying a purchase of the steel tracked CTL. For brush mulching, I don't see why steel ott tracks wouldn't be just as good. Someone help me out here, what benefits of a steel tracked CTL have I overlooked?

I think the concept is great for certain applications however, if operators aren't buying steel 0TT, then maybe the manufacturers should be working to find a rubber compound that will hold up in abrasive conditions. Are there kevlar embedded tracks yet?

[#1 Catman]

#1 How heavey would that make the machine.

#2 We can't hardly sell steel tracks over tire these days...Every one wants a rubber track machine to cross concrete and asphalt.

I just do not see it. They make regular loaders to fill that nitch.

Great questions.
#1, If you had converted a Cat CTL "rubber" to "steel" it would increase the machine weight to average of 800 lbs. not to bad. That is the same weight of a std. 78" bucket.

#2, There is a pleace for every configuration. tires, tires w/ steel tracks, VTS, MTL's, CTL's, and now Steel Track CTL's. As a owner/ operator you will need to determine what is best for you region, and you job application. When selecting configurations, keep in mind your owning and operationg cost.

#3, Our steel track option makes a Cat CTL the first Steel Track with true suspension and the duribility of a dozer. If needed you can still have your 2spd. but not needed. A D3 tops out a 6mph a Cat CTL tops out at 8.5mph. so even with 2spd turned off it is still a quick machine, add in HF, air ride seat, cab comforts and joy sticks, This will be a very powerfull and productive machine in the right application. endless possibilities.

[Digdeep]

Great questions.
#1, If you had converted a Cat CTL "rubber" to "steel" it would increase the machine weight to average of 800 lbs. not to bad. That is the same weight of a std. 78" bucket.

#2, There is a pleace for every configuration. tires, tires w/ steel tracks, VTS, MTL's, CTL's, and now Steel Track CTL's. As a owner/ operator you will need to determine what is best for you region, and you job application. When selecting configurations, keep in mind your owning and operationg cost.

#3, Our steel track option makes a Cat CTL the first Steel Track with true suspension and the duribility of a dozer. If needed you can still have your 2spd. but not needed. A D3 tops out a 6mph a Cat CTL tops out at 8.5mph. so even with 2spd turned off it is still a quick machine, add in HF, air ride seat, cab comforts and joy sticks, This will be a very powerfull and productive machine in the right application. endless possibilities.

Does the track have bushings? If so, what will the pin and bushing wear be like at 8.5mph?

[Digdeep]

Yes it is. But extra links to match up with the long track length.

It looks almost exactly like the system that Bobcat just released at World of Concrete.

[Treemow]

Got it. Supertrak SK140STR 140hp. need more info PM me. or go to www.supertrak.com

It's $175,000. You can buy three Mustangs (Taks),each with three exta sets of tracks for that price.

[Treemow]

I ran steel OTT tracks on a couple of Bobcat 863's, an s250, and s220 back when I ran two machines regularly. I had enough complaints from repeat, well paying customers, that I made the decision to take off the tracks permanently and I have never gone back. Granted, there are times when I need a tracked machine but running plain rubber has allowed me to work on any improved surface if necessary.
I spent some time last night thinking about this thread and the applications for steel CTL tracks. What I came up with was dirt moving and excavation, some demolition work, brush mulching in some environments, and work around aggregates. I couldn't think of too many other areas where the extra weight and steel option would be of much benefit but I'm sure I left something out.

I would love to have a CTL as my second machine to use in limited situations but haven't been able to justify the purchase. I would really have a hard time justifying a purchase of the steel tracked CTL. For brush mulching, I don't see why steel ott tracks wouldn't be just as good. Someone help me out here, what benefits of a steel tracked CTL have I overlooked?

I think the concept is great for certain applications however, if operators aren't buying steel 0TT, then maybe the manufacturers should be working to find a rubber compound that will hold up in abrasive conditions. Are there kevlar embedded tracks yet?

Probably 2000 hrs. vs. 700 hrs.

[Treemow]

And if you want a dozer you'd buy a dozer, I dont quite get the point of the steel undercarriage except for the mulching industry, but still the guys that mulch still use there machine for dirt work so it still wouldnt be all that usefull imo.. Maybe there is some advantage I am not seeing?

Asphalt and concrete kills rubber tracks especially at these speeds. I try to avoid it at all cost. It's dirt or stumps for me.

[Junior M]

Asphalt and concrete kills rubber tracks especially at these speeds. I try to avoid it at all cost. It's dirt or stumps for me.
Yeah it does, with steel its a big no-no to go out on asphalt and turn. Where as with the rubber you'd rather not but if its an absolute must, then you have that option..

[Mjh Excavating]

I think traction is a major issue and not having to worry about what your driving over, I would be very interested in a steel tracked CTL, I have steel on my mini ex and would not trade for rubber anyday.

[iron peddler]

still waiting for Catman's reply to my pm...anybody else waiting?

[#1 Catman]

It's $175,000. You can buy three Mustangs (Taks),each with three exta sets of tracks for that price.

Yes, depending on options. But you need to look at the production per hr or per acre. If you bought 3 (Taks) you would need 3 operators, 3 more fill ups of fuel, 3 more times to transport, 3 more sets of parts inventory. It all adds up. When 1 machine can do all the production of the 3 you just added plus saving on the labor rates. Just some items that are overlooked on sticker shock or when biding a job. These machines compete with the 130hp-160hp Fecons and Gyro-tracs on porduction. Allthough we think they are just high powered CTLS. Food for though.

[Treemow]

A sk140tr will not do twice the production of a standard 40 gal. per minute machine. Three machines will go to three jobsites.

[Treemow]

The sticker shock of the machine is not the problem. The hourly or per acre rate rolling off the toungue to a customer in these times is the shock. Here land sells for around $3000.00 per acre. There are very few people here that will pay $1500.00 per acre to manicure it. They cannot recoup there investment . The idea is to keep all expense as economical as possible.

[stuvecorp]

A sk140tr will not do twice the production of a standard 40 gal. per minute machine. Three machines will go to three jobsites.

Not knowing that much about mulching so, a skid can compete with a 'fancy' mulcher?

[Digdeep]

The sticker shock of the machine is not the problem. The hourly or per acre rate rolling off the toungue to a customer in these times is the shock. Here land sells for around $3000.00 per acre. There are very few people here that will pay $1500.00 per acre to manicure it. They cannot recoup there investment . The idea is to keep all expense as economical as possible.

I think that another issue is the lost versatility that you would get with a supertrak compared to a high flow CTL. I could brush cut, and do dirt work more effectively with a CTL for far less cost, far less weight, less fuel consumption, etc.

Based on what I see out there I think that the new ASV PT100 Forestry machines are a step toward having the best of both worlds- a machine geared more toward brush cutting compared to a normal high flow CTL, yet still perfectly capable of using a bucket, harley rake, auger, trencher, etc. for general dirt work. All at an operating weight of around 11000lbs. A guy that I met a year or so ago that has an older RC100 is looking at moving into one early this summer for his power line maintenance business. He was just quoted a price of about $74k (no trade) without the cutting head.

[Treemow]

Yes they compete very well. I've demoed all the expensive ones and they are great. The thing is we don't just mulch as Digdeep said. The thing with standard ctl's is they usually don't have all the screens, guards ,and cooling that the dedicated machines have. We mainly try to focus on jobs that are a step above what can be done with a heaavy bush hog. The misconception on here is that you are clear cutting. If the customer wants a field you would be better off with a dozer and excavator. Cheaper too. But if you are trying to clear under brush from timber; there is IMO no other way to do it. The standard machines work excellent if you common sense and stay within its capabilities.

[Treemow]

Not knowing that much about mulching so, a skid can compete with a 'fancy' mulcher?

The sk140tr is a 40 gpm machine. The big difference is it is a 5000 psi machine. This is great for spool up and larger material. The problem is that usually the higher the pressure the harder everything has to work; i.e. leak or blow out. The mulch head itself works off of momentum so no matter the pressure you can't just stick it in a tree and expect it to just tear it apart. Their is a fair amount of finesse to it. A 3200 psi machine works just fine. I've added screens and an external oil cooler to mine and it works just fine.

[Junior M]

Yes they compete very well. I've demoed all the expensive ones and they are great. The thing is we don't just mulch as Digdeep said. The thing with standard ctl's is they usually don't have all the screens, guards ,and cooling that the dedicated machines have. We mainly try to focus on jobs that are a step above what can be done with a heaavy bush hog. The misconception on here is that you are clear cutting. If the customer wants a field you would be better off with a dozer and excavator. Cheaper too. But if you are trying to clear under brush from timber; there is IMO no other way to do it. The standard machines work excellent if you common sense and stay within its capabilities.
What would you use to stay cost effective on a job say a little to heavy for a bushhog but you cant charge enough to get a CTL with a chipper on it in there?

[Treemow]

Use the rescources that are available to you. We do a lot of hand work also. Chainsaws, clearing saws, and pruning saws.

[Junior M]

Use the rescources that are available to you. We do a lot of hand work also. Chainsaws, clearing saws, and pruning saws.
2acres by hand? ;) :dizzy: I am going to have a Bobcat on this job anyways for moving fallen trees and I've got some trees to fall and some light clearing to do(I am getting more and more into the biz I want to be in with each job:cool2:) Just thought I'd ask why we were on this subject..

[Treemow]

Lower overhead in hand work. Use imports.

[AWJ Services]

Lower overhead in hand work. Use imports.

Now that is funny.

2acres by hand?

Your point being.

People underestimate bush hogs and rotary cutters.They will do a good job although they will not give the finesse results of a mulching head.
I have a 38 hp tractor and an old Bush hog with the big gear box.I have done 100's of acres of underbrush cutting with it.Trees under 5 inches I am not scared of.
Yes a 100k mulchine setup would be nice but unless you are in a dedicated mulching buisness they are not attractive.

Some people "do more with less" and some people "do less with more".:drinkup:

[Junior M]

Now that is funny.



Your point being.

People underestimate bush hogs and rotary cutters.They will do a good job although they will not give the finesse results of a mulching head.
I have a 38 hp tractor and an old Bush hog with the big gear box.I have done 100's of acres of underbrush cutting with it.Trees under 5 inches I am not scared of.
Yes a 100k mulchine setup would be nice but unless you are in a dedicated mulching buisness they are not attractive.

Some people "do more with less" and some people "do less with more".:drinkup:
that is pretty funny..

and if it will do it, then okay! We've never bush hogged anything bigger than like brambles up home this is trees up to like 2 to 3in.. And that's alot of bending over with clippers or a chainsaw but if thats what I gotta do that its what I gotta do..

[YellowDogSVC]

Yes they compete very well. I've demoed all the expensive ones and they are great. The thing is we don't just mulch as Digdeep said. .

You hit the nail on the head... especially when times are tight. A lot of dedicated machines sit idle and while the big, powerful machines are good on large jobs, their production rates on small properties or properties that need a lot of TLC, isn't that great.

I almost never go to a mulch site without my grapple. I almost never clear cut or just mulch standing trees. I have found a niche grinding brush piles, construction debris, etc., brush and stump reduction so there is less impact on a site, less space taken up etc. Imagine using a 175k machine to carry brush or stack a few rocks on a small job? Small jobs pay well. Yes, you have to move your machine more but I often pick up 2-3 referrals off of one small job in a new subdivision or along a country road. In a perfect world where rubber tracks would hold up to rocks, a CTL with 40 gpm, and 4000 psi would be PLENTY for most mulching jobs. Beyond that, a large chipper or grinder would be helpful or just hire a big forestry machine to clear cut. Bobcat is almost there, as is CAT, TEREX, and the Case 465 with the super high flow and you can get a machine, grapple, and cutter head for under 100k and clear brush, stumps, construction debris, brush piles, and standing trees. Throw in a bucket and you can build roads, grade, and excavate all with the same machine.

[bobcat_ron]

Lower overhead in hand work. Use imports.

Giggty. :laugh: