big vs. small

[tlcgrounds]

I see this trend happening. I see a lot of guys who start out solo and work hard to build a reputable service and want to take things to the next level. I believe running an operation much larger than 2-3 people changes the role of owner altogether. Instead of being out in the field making the revenue and being a well skilled stealth lawn technician, they need to be a business man analyzing margins and labor hours. THey are so busy selling and managing the office work load that spending time doing the hands on things is not an option or even in the job description. I could explian it best by comparing most of us to True Green and many huge outfits like that. It's comparing corprate America to sole propreitor America two very diffrent life styles. I believe the resaon why many guys are scaling down is because we are hands on workers not desk jockeys.

[kutnkru]

I have to say that I ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE with your theory. Is it impractical to expect to be out in the field all the time - No. When I was in a partnership with my brother I rotated amongst the mowing crews (because its what I enjoy).

When it comes down to paperwork - Yes, you will have to put in extra hours at night. Yes, you will have to relive yourself of duties to bid at times but for the most part - you should always be able to be out here if thats where you WANT to be.

If its truely going to be a conflict of interest than just like TGCL have an office with associates/assistants all you want to - for that matter have many -LOL!!! If you find the right people to put behind the labor lines, then you should be able to keep yourself out in the trenches without a problem day after day after day!!! ;)

I was fortunate enough to be in a position to hire my filly to take care of it all for us allowing me not to be couped up in an AC'd Truck or office all day. Bottom line is this: Where theres a will ,,, Theres a way!!!

BTW this is also why many of those whom have HUGE operations like JAA and others will tell you that for many companies of their magnitudes its not uncommon to find a 3-4% profit margin, unlike solos and smaller outfits who average about 33-38%!!!

[KathysLGC]

That is why I will be teaching my girlfriend everthing I am learning so I can still be out there and she can sell and do all the paper work. I can't wait untill the work looks for me.

[stslawncare]

thats the nice thing about this job, some days do office work some days in the field, better yet rainy days do office work nice days do field work.

[JimLewis]

tlc, I think you are right to some degree. Once you grow your business large enough it's difficult and probably even unwise to be out mowing and such when you could and should be out landing new jobs, marketing, taking care of books, overseeing crews, etc.

And you're right that a lot of guys here at lawn site would rather be doing the work than they would be running a business.

But there are also a lot of us who are on the other side of the spectrum as well. I, for instance, LOVE running a business. I love driving around in a nice new truck all day, talking to prospective clients, overseeing projects, running errands, etc. And I enjoy the office work too. I was a buisiness major in college and this all comes natural to me.

Furthermore, there's no way I could mow lawns every day for the rest of my life. There's no challenge in it for me. And I don't enjoy sweating my ass off every day and getting all muddy. Maybe that's just me. I did it for the first few years, but only because it was a means to an end. I was always working toward getting to where I am now. I was always counting on the day where I could hire other guys to mow and do landscaping work and I could run things.

The beauty of this business is you can have it either way. If you like staying small and aren't good with running the business end of things, then it's better to stay a laborer. You can make great money at it, no doubt about that.

But if you enjoy marketing, running a big business, making even more money, etc. than that option is available as well.

Some people think the stress of having employees, running a lot of jobs, managing hundreds of clients, etc. is too much. Others think the rewards are worth it. But aint it great that we have either option available to us.

I don't think either one is necessarily better. It just depends on your personality, which one is better for you.

[PAPS]

Since I started.. i have grown to the point that this year.. i will probably take 2 days off from the field to sell more work, more business related issues. However, it all has to do with the quality of help you have. You and your company is only as good as the help you hire. I would not be able to be where i was without some quality employees... and I tell them that all the time.

[Tim Canavan]

This is why you got into buisness for yourself, I hope. It's your choice, not someone else's. That's the beauty of it. How far do you want to go? Are you a worker or a buisnessman? Do you enjoy what you do?
Develop some kind of a goal for yourself and get there. Just remember to run your buisness, don't let your buisness run you.:cool:

[kutnkru]

Jim explained it much better than I did, but brings up some GREAT points.

This is truthfully IMHO the reason why so many mangement - stupid visor types can come into the field, smooze their way into contracts (because they have GREAT people skills) and then hire a good labor force and continue to compete without that much difficulty.

Personally I like the mudd and the muck, but Im a big boy like the a farmers from Upstate so its a little different for me. I looked at it like this. I came to the realization early on that a suit and tie was never for me. I could work heavy construction and equipment operations for a short term, or I could make half as much for a few years and then double my salary without having to box myself into a cubical.

In the spring I put on a suit and tie but its temporary while bidding and with the cooler temps it keeps me warm too -LOL!!! :D Then Im back to kahki shorts and hard physical labor, but its what I like to do.

Besides everyone knows that you put a big boy in suspenders and we look like an Ox -LMAO!!!

[wrtenterprises]

Well said Jim!! I am curently a solo operator, and have spent many an hour contempleting this same question. There are numerous benefits and rewards to growing your business in either direction, but having the option of doing what's best for you is truely great.....

[Fantasy Lawns]

Well said Jim .... I also love running the business side ..... my office is +50% in my truck out in the open anyways.... I love the "sell" that's the challenge ..... one can't be in the field all the time for everything unless we wish to stay a solo .... an yes the $$ can be very good small....

[tlcgrounds]

hey guys,

I'm not saying that we all don't have plans to grow into a bigger business than where we are now. I was simply comparing small business onwers in the green indusrty (say 1-5 employees and up to 500k sales) to huge companies like those profiled in trade magazines with revenues in the millions. Many of us are hands on guys who would much rather have the juicy profit margins with some labor to pay rather than slim 6-10% of large corparations. Whatever floats your boat. I was simply commenting about many guys who grow large and decide the best thing is to be smaller.

[hart51bud]

What about the point of being solo and getting sick or having a family problem? Who is going to do your job if you are not there? Don't you really need a good professional crew working to make it more than just a job?

[lawnbaby]

Employees can sometimes really stink. Thats why I have my family and friends help me when I need it. I know that they wont be lazy and I usually dont have to pay them very much! Eventually though if you get big enough there just arent enough people to help you out and you have to expand and hire employees.

[TJLC]

That's the beauty of being in business for yourself. All the choices and decisions you make are your own and not what someone else tells you to do. I choose to stay solo at this time because down here finding and keeping good help is a CHALLENGE to say the least. I do wonder, though, what I would do if I was hurt and couldn't run my business. I'm now starting to look in disability ins. just in case. Someone once told me "you either have to stay small or get really big, there is no inbetween". I really don't know how much truth there is to that. Good luck.

[David Haggerty]

I used to think the different types of lawn people should be divided into separate forums, but after trying it for a year, I appreciate the advantages of everyone posting together.

I'm a solo operator myself. Sometimes I'll hire help, but mostly it's me doing the work. I think it's a viable way to earn a living, and I have no intention of "upgrading" to the next level. Bureaucrats tack DBA onto my name like it's some brand of shame or something. But I just don't care because I'm earning a living.
Other people do it. Owner operators of semi-trucks. Backhoe operators, even guys with pressure washers in the back of vans buy a decent piece of equipment and make a living with it.
But it seems like a lot of the people posting here look at lawn care as some kind of stoop labor work. To mow a lawn they have one guy with one mower. To get more production, they get two guys with two mowers. My view is, to get more production, get a bigger mower. I'll keep you posted on how it's working out.

Dave

[John Allin]

Yes... the very large organizations usually shoot for 3-4% net margins, as noted above....

I'm pleased to say that our net margins are 3 - 4 times that number noted above.

I too enjoy managing a business instead of working out in the field. In fact, I never intended to stay in the field when I started out. My goal was always to be a business owner and not a scaper (no offense intended to those that like being outdoors in the field). My version of being 'out in the field' these days is to negotiate the multi million dollar contracts.

I do believe that both types of entities in our industry (large or small) have their plus's and minus's - depending upon your personal taste and strengths. And, I would never, ever state that one is better than another. Although, the potential for higher monitary rewards seems to favor the larger contractor (from personal experience).

[LawnLad]

Jim and John, I'd have to agree with you. It's a matter of personal choice and what is best for you. I happen to like the business side of things. I think of my business as a learning labratory. When I take classes/seminars it's that much easier to comprehend the classroom material when I can practically apply it to my business.

Michael Gerber asks whether you want to work "in" your business or "on" your business. Do you want a "Job" or do want to be a business owner? You may own your job, but do you truly own a business? If you can't walk away from your business tomorrow for three to six months without having it run on its own, you own a job. Define it any way you want, but ask yourself what would happen if you were not there.

I choose to work on my company daily, trying to find solutions to problems so that one day, if I need to or choose to reduce my time in the business, there will be a method for me to do this. If I were a sole operator, this would not be possible.

People management and relationships are key to anyone's success. You have to network with peers, work with vendors/creditors, sell to customers, and manage employees. Equipment doesn't show up late or hung over or have loyalties to someone else. Material is a part of the process. On the other hand, relationships with people are time consuming, demanding and unpredictable. If you can manage yourself and your relationships with people successfully, I would believe that you are on your way to being successful.

All of this is to say, business development is a choice. You have to consciencly choose to stretch yourself to learn more and be better at it. It is not natural. I think business development goes hand in hand with personal development. Your business will most likely move only as fast as you're willing to let it move, which will be at a pace that you can handle. How do you handle change? Do you seek it? Hide from it?

[heygrassman]

Doug.. Great Synopsis!!

jf

[walker-talker]

Well put Lawnlad!

I have to admit that I got into this industry because of the ease. I enjoy the smell of business, just as others enjoy the smell of grass--neither right or wrong. One of the better post that I have seen lately. Some very truthful information here.

May we all reach our goals
MATT