PDA

View Full Version : Going Green?


Malm's Lawn&Pest Control
02-26-2009, 11:15 PM
It seems as if society is starting to become more "Environmentally Sensitive" and "Organic". With this being said, would it be better for a company just starting off to go with the "Organic and Environmentally Friendly" approach? Im talking about incorporating this theme in your company name, appearance.....everything.

Marcos
02-26-2009, 11:58 PM
If you're going to go through the trouble of adopting a green "theme" from the get-go, why not also take the time to do the needed homework to become a legitimate "green" organization, devoted to organics? :)

MC Handy Man
02-27-2009, 12:55 PM
I was actually going to post this very thread. I have been thinking about my start-up and development. I am definitely interested in going green, However how green can one get in this industry? Are there organic fertilizers that are eco-friendly? what about emotion's on equipment? How about the way irrigation...poly or metal? how about property, is your shop green? solar panels, wind? I am studying the effects of the Going Green in this industry. I want to create a total twenty page report on ways a lawn care, landscaping business can jump on the bandwagon and its costs associated with it.

I think that by going green from the start would be the best way to go. I think it is very possible that within the next decade the government will be controlling applicators and the green industry as a whole. Plus, allot of potential clients are all for the change and for those clients that don't give a rats azz, as long as it works I feel that they will give the job to you. Another incentive is green credits. For example, I know a insurance company owner who has built a new office and the incorporated green technology in the new property. They have 18 solar panels in which create energy not only for the building itself but even more than that. They sell the excess AC to the local power company and they write him a check at the end of the year. They also have water gathering reservoirs that catch water runoff and the irrigation system runs from this system.
Down the road I believe that this is what will set businesses apart. I am all for your plan. You will pay more upfront however it will be well worth the investment in the long term. Good luck. When i finish my report I will post a copy.

LKNBigFish
02-27-2009, 01:42 PM
"green" would not generally include mowing as "they" prefer ground covers or rock gardens. natural and organic are much easier to hold true to. irrigation and lawns are not green and are a waste of resources.

MC Handy Man
02-27-2009, 04:57 PM
"green" would not generally include mowing as "they" prefer ground covers or rock gardens. natural and organic are much easier to hold true to. irrigation and lawns are not green and are a waste of resources.


That is all totally true however "Going Green" doesnt mean that everything must be 100% ENVIROMENTALLY EFFICIENT, rather it is simply managing our resources. For example, rather then installing an irrigation system running off the city water supply, one can collect and save rain water and use that water to irrigate the property. It doesnt have to be a cut throat operation, It can be as simple as applying organic fertilizers rather than strong chemical applications. Its just a step in the right direction in managing our scarce and limited resources.

"The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones" That was a quote from a Suadi Arabian Oil minister in 1970 just before the Oil cartel OPEC was established. Think about those words, we must adapt our ways in some way, big or small, we must learn to manage our so called enviromentall budget.

ed2hess
02-27-2009, 09:06 PM
That is all totally true however "Going Green" doesnt mean that everything must be 100% ENVIROMENTALLY EFFICIENT, rather it is simply managing our resources. For example, rather then installing an irrigation system running off the city water supply, one can collect and save rain water and use that water to irrigate the property. It doesnt have to be a cut throat operation, It can be as simple as applying organic fertilizers rather than strong chemical applications. Its just a step in the right direction in managing our scarce and limited resources.

"The stone age did not end because we ran out of stones" That was a quote from a Suadi Arabian Oil minister in 1970 just before the Oil cartel OPEC was established. Think about those words, we must adapt our ways in some way, big or small, we must learn to manage our so called enviromentall budget.

Hasn't rained enough to in our area for two years to collect anything. And going green does mean don't use city water and don't grow and cut any grass. And definitely don't use any motor devices to take care of whatever is on the lot.

Malm's Lawn&Pest Control
02-28-2009, 11:44 AM
Hasn't rained enough to in our area for two years to collect anything. And going green does mean don't use city water and don't grow and cut any grass. And definitely don't use any motor devices to take care of whatever is on the lot.

I think you guys are missing my perception when I posted this. When I say 'going green' I am talking about using organic insecticides and herbicides that my customers are starting to demand because of pets and children. I'm not talking about building a shop with solar panels or not using motor devices to take care of lawn maintenance. You guys are getting off the point.

Here is a good example: www.ecocareonline.com

mowerbrad
02-28-2009, 02:23 PM
I think you guys are missing my perception when I posted this. When I say 'going green' I am talking about using organic insecticides and herbicides that my customers are starting to demand because of pets and children. I'm not talking about building a shop with solar panels or not using motor devices to take care of lawn maintenance. You guys are getting off the point.

Here is a good example: www.ecocareonline.com

I think that would be a good idea, but I don't know how much you could incorporate the 'green' thing into that. If applicating is you only business then yes, the 'green' idea would work awesomely, but if you do other services, then no it won't work as nicely.

And for all these other people who think that they should make their shops, equipment, vehicles, and services all 'green' and environmentally friendly...I say move your happy butts out to california and do it there. I for one will not be going green anytime soon, my clients don't care one way or another, I will only change when the government makes me.

openbook
02-28-2009, 04:00 PM
There's some good info on here about organic and natural fertilizers in the organic section.

I am also wanting to do the same thing in the residential sector. I would like to offer all non motorized service with the exception of a small truck.

I would love to get my hands on an old vw rabbit diesel truck they get 40-50mpg. But I might have to settle on a ranger or tacoma.

This last fall I put out flyers in an area that would be perfect for this type of service, they have one of the highest average incomes in minneapolis neighborhoods, but I only managed to get 3 accounts. That was for snow cleanup but I wasn't marketing green anything.

I think when I do flyers again I will try and market some green ideas. For now though I just need to get customers any way I can.

Marcos
02-28-2009, 04:25 PM
I think you guys are missing my perception when I posted this. When I say 'going green' I am talking about using organic insecticides and herbicides that my customers are starting to demand because of pets and children. I'm not talking about building a shop with solar panels or not using motor devices to take care of lawn maintenance. You guys are getting off the point.

Here is a good example: www.ecocareonline.com

Many smart organic applicators today will use a soil-feeding strategy like compost once or twice a year, or a revolving "step program" of vegetable proteins throughout the growing season with the use of corn meal, soybean meal, alfalfa meal, cottonseed meal, etc...

As far as weeds are concerned, the best philosophy to put forth from the get-go is to offer yourself & your services as a "professional partner" with your clients, toward the ultimate goal of having the customers' lawns so healthy and T-H-I-C-K, that weeds won't literally have ROOM to begin to encroach!
When weeds DO pop up here and there.....IPM (integrated pest management) methods should always be followed, whether you're using chemicals OR organic controls.

Same general IPM concepts goes with insects & disease.

Cultural practices (mowing, watering, sharpening, sun vs.shade, grass species compatibility, thatch, soil type, aeration, etc...) are the strongest direct contributors as to whether a given piece of turf will succumb to disease in a given season, or not.

The main key with insects & disease is KNOWLEDGE of exactly what you're looking for, and when you find something, whether it's friend or foe, dormant or active (in the case of disease).

LKNBigFish
02-28-2009, 09:03 PM
No flyers! flyers = paper = dead trees = not green

LKNBigFish
02-28-2009, 09:14 PM
organic is not as effective and to get close to the same results costs much more.

lawns are not "green" or "natural", weeds are natural.

going green/organic in lawn care is like driving a hybrid escalade.
it doesnt accomplish much except for show and to make people feel good about themselves.

Precedence
03-01-2009, 09:30 AM
organic is not as effective and to get close to the same results costs much more.

lawns are not "green" or "natural", weeds are natural.

going green/organic in lawn care is like driving a hybrid escalade.
it doesnt accomplish much except for show and to make people feel good about themselves.

That's true but there is a segment of the market that will pay a premium dollar to do exactly that, show off to the neighborhood and make themselves feel better, they wouldn't be making a hybrid escalade if there wasn't.

This type of service couldn't be sold to every Tom Dick and Harry, it probably wouldn't work in every city either you have to do some market research to see if it can work in your area.

Marcos
03-02-2009, 02:20 PM
"green" would not generally include mowing as "they" prefer ground covers or rock gardens. natural and organic are much easier to hold true to. irrigation and lawns are not green and are a waste of resources.

It's a cryin' shame someone always has a come blastin' on here like a third grader, and make this chemical/organics thing a "us" vs. "them" debate!

Y'know.....there's plenty of folks out there who use their noggins, and implement IPM chemical 'bridge' practices when tackling weeds, bugs & disease, but still use 100% soil-feeding foods, like layers of finished compost, or a rotating program of the aforementioned protein meals.

Is this... "cheating"? :confused:
Purists say, it is. Yes...

I say...it's using common sense, & it's using the best remaining tool we have out there in front of us & readily available: IPM ! :)

Integrated Pest Management- having the knowledge to know what you're looking for, whether to know if it's friend or foe, active or dormant, alive or dead, and whether to spot-treat for it with chemicals, or whether to use an assortment of possible CULTURAL approaches.

....in other words (like my daddy used to say) you gotta be smarter than what you're huntin' for! :laugh:

LKNBigFish
03-02-2009, 07:50 PM
It's a cryin' shame someone always has a come blastin' on here like a third grader, and make this chemical/organics thing a "us" vs. "them" debate!

Y'know.....there's plenty of folks out there who use their noggins, and implement IPM chemical 'bridge' practices when tackling weeds, bugs & disease, but still use 100% soil-feeding foods, like layers of finished compost, or a rotating program of the aforementioned protein meals.

Is this... "cheating"? :confused:
Purists say, it is. Yes...

I say...it's using common sense, & it's using the best remaining tool we have out there in front of us & readily available: IPM ! :)

Integrated Pest Management- having the knowledge to know what you're looking for, whether to know if it's friend or foe, active or dormant, alive or dead, and whether to spot-treat for it with chemicals, or whether to use an assortment of possible CULTURAL approaches.

....in other words (like my daddy used to say) you gotta be smarter than what you're huntin' for! :laugh:


so what are you saying? do you think your approach is green? all i'm saying is that you're not going to save the planet by going green but you may help people feel good and thats fine.

this is a business and there are many ways to be profitable. my point is that "green" and lawns don't belong in the same sentence. if you had real "green" customers then they wouldn't have a lawn.

My advise was to simply use the words organic and natural if they apply rather than using green.

also, i dont have any problem with people who want leave a smaller footprint just as i dont care what religion you practice as long as it doesnt affect me.

Marcos
03-02-2009, 08:45 PM
so what are you saying? do you think your approach is green? all i'm saying is that you're not going to save the planet by going green but you may help people feel good and thats fine.

this is a business and there are many ways to be profitable. my point is that "green" and lawns don't belong in the same sentence. if you had real "green" customers then they wouldn't have a lawn.

My advise was to simply use the words organic and natural if they apply rather than using green.

also, i dont have any problem with people who want leave a smaller footprint just as i dont care what religion you practice as long as it doesnt affect me.

My bridge approach is green enough for 80-85% of my prospects because I'm good at selling it.

Your 2nd statement about green people, or green 'wannabes' not having lawns...not true whatsoever!
The difference is...most of them are much more aware of the potential wastes that can occur in a given landscape, compared to the average Joe Bloe, and much more willing to take actions to prevent them.

For example:
Around here now, more and more builders are beginning to build cisterns into designs for homes that draw water directly from rooftops of houses and garages, are operated via solar powered pump, and are used ONLY to provide water to lawns & landscape.

Do you think a non "green-minded" home buyer, or couple, would really give this selling point alot of value?
Probably not......unless someone (the realtor, maybe) points out it's potential future VALUE in terms of lower water bills!

Don't be so paranoid!:dizzy:
Nobody here's preaching a "religion".
Alot of this organic stuff is simply getting back to what our great-grandfathers knew & practiced, before WW II (or so).
Unfortunately, 98% of our family mentors from that era have gotten old & died off....but there are remnants left that have carried on these traditions in the South and elsewhere.

Interesting reading here, if anyone has time any of the 11 books in the series...
The Foxfire project started in the early '70s as an attempt by students to record "the old ways" in Rabun Gap GA, before the pre-Depression generation there finally died off:

http://foxfire.org/

LKNBigFish
03-02-2009, 09:03 PM
how is your mower more green than not mowing?
do a little research, "green" is a spectrum and you are talking about light green and i am referring to dark green.

you keep arguing that you're right and i'm wrong. don't be a moron, we can both be right.

Marcos
03-03-2009, 12:36 AM
how is your mower more green than not mowing?
do a little research, "green" is a spectrum and you are talking about light green and i am referring to dark green.

you keep arguing that you're right and i'm wrong. don't be a moron, we can both be right.

AGAIN.......This is NOT a "right vs. wrong" debate!
Light green/dark green....get all that divisive political jargon out of your head! :nono:
This is more of a transition BACK to the smarter, soil-based cultural approaches of the early part of the 20th century, and into the 19th.

You remember you grandfather's manual push mower, that cut like a scissors, right? They were a b####!!!:cry:
Well, they're making a big comeback now in some areas!
Only this newer generation of push reel mowers are geared to work ultra-efficient. And coming soon, we'll likely be seeing solar-powered, and/or solar-assisted reel mowers.
"Reely"... we will! :laugh: :waving:

My point is...ANY movement toward the direction of conservation of our current resources, as well as renew ables like solar, wind, tidal, geothermal...........are GOOD moves, even more modest ones, like cisterns devoted just for irrigation, solar powered reel mowers & organic lawn care programs.

It's almost the end of the 1st decade of the 21st century now, LKNBigFish.
Don't be one of the ones left behind when your market in time grows progressively "greener" away from you, and the types of services you put on your bids.

LKNBigFish
03-03-2009, 01:10 PM
AGAIN.......This is NOT a "right vs. wrong" debate!
Light green/dark green....get all that divisive political jargon out of your head! :nono:
This is more of a transition BACK to the smarter, soil-based cultural approaches of the early part of the 20th century, and into the 19th.

You remember you grandfather's manual push mower, that cut like a scissors, right? They were a b####!!!:cry:
Well, they're making a big comeback now in some areas!
Only this newer generation of push reel mowers are geared to work ultra-efficient. And coming soon, we'll likely be seeing solar-powered, and/or solar-assisted reel mowers.
"Reely"... we will! :laugh: :waving:

My point is...ANY movement toward the direction of conservation of our current resources, as well as renew ables like solar, wind, tidal, geothermal...........are GOOD moves, even more modest ones, like cisterns devoted just for irrigation, solar powered reel mowers & organic lawn care programs.

It's almost the end of the 1st decade of the 21st century now, LKNBigFish.
Don't be one of the ones left behind when your market in time grows progressively "greener" away from you, and the types of services you put on your bids.

you need to stop the preaching. if it isn't your religion then why do you care about me getting left behind? yes, things are generally moving toward more environmentally friendly practices. this is a good thing and the market will determine the speed of the movement.

I bet you voted for obama didnt you?

LKNBigFish
03-03-2009, 01:12 PM
how is your mower more green than not mowing?
do a little research, "green" is a spectrum and you are talking about light green and i am referring to dark green.

you keep arguing that you're right and i'm wrong. don't be a moron, we can both be right.

READ THIS AGAIN!! what dont you agree with?

Kiril
03-03-2009, 01:22 PM
revolving "step program" of vegetable proteins throughout the growing season with the use of corn meal, soybean meal, alfalfa meal, cottonseed meal, etc...

Marcos ... Eco-Friendly

As far as the other Yahoo ... how about you practice some common sense.

LKNBigFish
03-03-2009, 01:39 PM
Marcos ... Eco-Friendly

As far as the other Yahoo ... how about you practice some common sense.

marcos does not like political jargon like "eco-friendly"

how am i not practicing common sense?

Marcos
03-03-2009, 01:45 PM
you need to stop the preaching. if it isn't your religion then why do you care about me getting left behind? yes, things are generally moving toward more environmentally friendly practices. this is a good thing and the market will determine the speed of the movement.

I bet you voted for obama didnt you?

I don't particularly care if you or anyone else on lawnsite, or peers I know in the green business locally get "left behind" in amongst this 21st century green wave.
One of the most important things I've learned from hanging around in this industry since 1982 is to be versatile & flexible to major changes in the market. Some changes of the past have proved to be somewhat minor and short-term, not necessarily requiring major shifts in marketing strategy.
This world-wide green revolution is 100% different. It is fast becoming all-encompassing in its nature compared to past short-term (more regional) trends.

Maybe I'm sounding the 'green bell' on here for you (if you care enough to listen)... because I care enough to! :waving:

And NO I didn't vote for Barackula & Biden! :cry:
I think that November election day in '08 may go down as the worst day in our nation's history someday. I voted for Palin :o, and McCain by default! :laugh:

The ONLY thing that Obama's doing right now that I agree with, is the massive ramping up of alternative renewable energy technologies toward use in mainstream America.
These decisions should have been made beginning with Nixon, Ford and/or Carter over 30 some years ago, but WE got s###-faced lazy because of cheap Saudi '80s & '90s sweet crude being pumped through our veins!
This has everything to do with the reason why the Big 3 are going under, and why Toyota now sells the most vehicles in the world.....FLEXIBILITY & ADAPTABILITY!

LKNBigFish
03-03-2009, 02:05 PM
The ONLY thing that Obama's doing right now that I agree with, is the massive ramping up of alternative renewable energy technologies toward use in mainstream America.
These decisions should have been made beginning with Nixon, Ford and/or Carter over 30 some years ago, but WE got s###-faced lazy because of cheap Saudi '80s & '90s sweet crude being pumped through our veins!
This has everything to do with the reason why the Big 3 are going under, and why Toyota now sells the most vehicles in the world.....FLEXIBILITY & ADAPTABILITY!


you really think its a good idea for the government to force alternative renewable energy? this is the USA, i think we are much better off letting the market work instead of legislating change. if it makes sense then investors will invest, but the government is a pretty inefficient beast.

Marcos
03-05-2009, 08:07 AM
you really think its a good idea for the government to force alternative renewable energy?

Despite the fact that I (like you) don't like government dictating our lives, yes, I do believe the U.S. government should offer hard & fast tax incentives for renewables.
We have pretty much painted ourselves into a corner at this point, as far as energy is concerned, where very soon we won't have many other choices other than cutting-edge renewables.
We'll continue for many years down the road to have OPEC folks playing nut-and-shell games with oil prices all over the world. We've got to STOP playing into that game!

The brighter side of this story...the latest technology surrounding these renewables has improved exponentially since they were first conceived decades ago, making them more efficient & ultimately more affordable as time goes by, to you & I.

And I believe these vast improvements in efficiency are the main reasons to why Obama is so gung-ho.

Again...I would've been much more comfortable sleeping at night with a guy like McCain in the White House for his proven track record.
But I can't knock Obama for what he's trying to do with energy.
If he doesn't screw the rest of the ecomomy into oblivion, maybe we'll survive as a country long enough to see these windmills, solar arrays (etc) actually produce some wattage! :rolleyes::laugh:

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 08:29 AM
do you really think that we are running out of oil and coal?

do you also believe in the whole global warming thing?

its arrogant to think that even though the planet has had several ice ages and several hot spells that someone recently picked a baseline temperature a few years ago to use as the temp we should try to keep the world at.

greenland was named greenland because at some point it was green and not ice covered.

the planet goes through cycles and has always gone through cycles. if greenhouse gases keep going up why have the past few years been cooler?


p.s.
i think we need to get off foreign oil for security's sake. but i dont think that the government should pick winners and losers in the renewable world. we dont even know which ones will be most effective in the long run. also, if the government picks something it will slow capital investment in other technologies that might have turned out better. the market is much better at figuring out what works, investors put money into companies/technologies that make sense and pull money from ones that aren't working.

openbook
03-05-2009, 11:00 AM
That's weird that this turned into a discussion on global warming. For every report saying we are running out of oil there is another who say's we are not. So how is anyone going to prove anything? :hammerhead:

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 11:06 AM
That's weird that this turned into a discussion on global warming. For every report saying we are running out of oil there is another who say's we are not. So how is anyone going to prove anything? :hammerhead:


exactly! why try and stop something that we're not sure is happening, we are spending billions of tax dollars on it.

Kiril
03-05-2009, 11:30 AM
exactly! why try and stop something that we're not sure is happening, we are spending billions of tax dollars on it.

Why get out of bed in the morning when you know you will be there again in 16 hours or so?

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 11:38 AM
Why get out of bed in the morning when you know you will be there again in 16 hours or so?

you make no sense. alot of things are cyclical why try and stop natures cycle until you know for sure there is some negative man made influence on the cycle.

you probably should not get out of bed.

Kiril
03-05-2009, 11:55 AM
you make no sense. alot of things are cyclical why try and stop natures cycle until you know for sure there is some negative man made influence on the cycle.

I see .... so your solution is to wait until there is undeniable evidence ... at which point it will be too late to do anything. Ignoring all the other issues of human impacts on the environment, human contributions to climate change or not, the fact remains it is happening. Is not the wisest course of action to study how we might avoid the catastrophic effects of this and to take steps to prevent it if possible?

Or perhaps you would prefer to wait for the collapse of global ecosystems before finally realizing that we should have acted sooner?

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 12:06 PM
I see .... so your solution is to wait until there is undeniable evidence ... at which point it will be too late to do anything. Ignoring all the other issues of human impacts on the environment, human contributions to climate change or not, the fact remains it is happening. Is not the wisest course of action to study how we might avoid the catastrophic effects of this and to take steps to prevent it if possible?

Or perhaps you would prefer to wait for the collapse of global ecosystems before finally realizing that we should have acted sooner?


what temperature should we keep it at permanently? how do you explain the recent cooling trend? how do you explain all of the errors in data gathering that come out after the hysteria started? how do you explain the fact that sea ice is up more now than it was 3 decades ago?

do you believe there where ice ages?

do you believe there where periods of extreme heat?

why do you think the climate you are used to is the climate we should try to hold?

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/news.php

Kiril
03-05-2009, 12:11 PM
No further comment given your source of information is a political rag.

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 12:22 PM
i dont care if you dont like link i posted but i didnt source anything from it so dont use it as an excuse not to answer my questions.

i posted the link just to point out that there are many people who have a problem with the "myth".

Kiril
03-05-2009, 12:24 PM
No point in discussing science with someone who clearly gets his information from political agendas. If you want to debate political agendas and global warming, there are plenty of those types in the off-topic forum to accommodate your ignorance, so I suggest you go there. End of discussion, have a nice day.

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 12:39 PM
are these political rags you fool. these are the types of sources i get my info from, you are using the previous link as an excuse to bail on a discussion you cant win. there is no evidence of man made global warming and there is no scientific evidence that disproves that we are in the middle of a natural cycle.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aIe9swvOqwIY

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/general/view/2009_02_15_Former_astronaut_speaks_out_on_global_warming/srvc=home&position=recent

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/general/view/2009_02_15_Former_astronaut_speaks_out_on_global_warming/srvc=home&position=recent

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=3229696&page=1

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,23663,21779177-10388,00.html

http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=927b9303-802a-23ad-494b-dccb00b51a12&Region_id=&Issue_id=

Kiril
03-05-2009, 12:43 PM
Point in case .... not a single link to a scientific journal .... go play in the political forum where you belong.

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 12:50 PM
are these sources known liars? where are your journals?

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 12:58 PM
stanford.....scientific enough?

http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/RobinsonAndRobinson.pdf

Kiril
03-05-2009, 01:19 PM
Blah, blah, blah. What part of "journals" did you not understand?

Do you also not understand what the off-topic forum is for? There are EXTENSIVE threads on global warming there, including hordes of links to peer reviewed journal publications.

Go push your ignorant political agenda there dude.

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 01:26 PM
Blah, blah, blah. What part of "journals" did you not understand?

Do you also not understand what the off-topic forum is for? There are EXTENSIVE threads on global warming there, including hordes of links to peer reviewed journal publications.

Go push your ignorant political agenda there dude.

time will tell who is ignorant. why do you keep posting if you want to end the conversation?

you are just a typical leftist from the left coast. how's California doing? lefty ideas will bankrupt a state!

Kiril
03-05-2009, 01:32 PM
ROFL ... yet another ignorant statement. Bye now. :waving:

LKNBigFish
03-05-2009, 01:35 PM
good talking with you, read some of that info, maybe you will learn something

Marcos
03-06-2009, 10:19 PM
do you really think that we are running out of oil and coal?

do you also believe in the whole global warming thing?

its arrogant to think that even though the planet has had several ice ages and several hot spells that someone recently picked a baseline temperature a few years ago to use as the temp we should try to keep the world at.

greenland was named greenland because at some point it was green and not ice covered.

the planet goes through cycles and has always gone through cycles. if greenhouse gases keep going up why have the past few years been cooler?


p.s.
i think we need to get off foreign oil for security's sake. but i dont think that the government should pick winners and losers in the renewable world. we dont even know which ones will be most effective in the long run. also, if the government picks something it will slow capital investment in other technologies that might have turned out better. the market is much better at figuring out what works, investors put money into companies/technologies that make sense and pull money from ones that aren't working.

Quite funny that you jump to a conclusion that I'm "pro" man-made global warming/ man-made climate change.:laugh:
Nothing could be further from the truth!
I'm simply "pro" common sense, for common sense's sake.
Utilizing renewable energies first and foremost makes 100% common sense, despite how much oil & coal are left domestically or across the border.

If you take the time to dig down deep and look at the names behind the numbers and graphs, there's not alot of legitimate science involved in this o-so-trendy global warming scheme.
It's largely based upon a U.N.-funded and backed agenda that's designed, over the long term, to better redistribute the world's wealth from it's richer nations to it's poorer.
There has never been a more grand hoax in the history of this entire world than the one Mr. Gore & Co. are trying to pull off.

Marcos
03-06-2009, 11:21 PM
good talking with you, read some of that info, maybe you will learn something

Gee, sure sorry I missed that li'l spiff! :)
You're not the ONLY one to have gone a few rounds lately with Mr. Elitist from the left coast. :laugh:

Trying to gain the upper hand on liberals like Kiril is like trying to ice a cake with a hammer. :hammerhead: The results ain't pretty! :laugh:

Liberals generally just want to visualize humanity on the same playing field and working together "for the common good" (...which amounts to socialism, and Obamaism :cry:).
Wheras a true conservative believes everyone born in this country has a fair shot at "their piece of the pie".

These respective sets of beliefs can be brought down into a microcosm, and examined individually in the context of the current global warming debate; y'know, the one where Al Gore said over & over "the debate's over...(about global warming)?
Yet Mr. Gore has publicly NEVER taken on any opposition in a debate regarding his man made global warming/ climate change agenda! Does he lack the courage? Is he still gun-shy from the loss to Bush 8 years ago?
No....I'll bet he's kept quiet..."for the common good" of the cause, because he knows deep down it's all just a big friggin' LIE! :dizzy:

Many conservatives like myself know that global warming, or "global climate change" as they're now calling it, is a myth.
Yet we think logically, and understand that there's a beginning, a middle and an end to everything, including oil, gas & coal.
No one's saying we're gonna stop using these non-renewables any time soon, LKN. You gotta think of these changes as happening more gradually (than what alot of media outlets portray), over a period of 3-4 decades possibly.

And you gotta remember, there's plenty of other uses of oil besides what's refined & put in our cars. There's asphalt roads, shingled roofs, yada...yada..yada...even the horticultural / dormant oil we use on our trees & landscape came from crude oil!
We will be using oil for many, many, MANY years.

The logical thing to do... is to ramp up all the other renewable stuff now, so that we can stretch the oil, gas & coal we may need out into the distant future, as far as possible, right?!? :waving:

weasel
03-07-2009, 01:49 AM
Ok I didn't read all the posts(like most on here they get way off base fast)
I'll answer the original question with what my Go Green Landscape Co practices.
Equipment:
All Diesels run on bio-diesel
We took advantage of the tax credit and bought 2 Hybrid Chevy Trucks
We use E-85 fuel

Practices:
We don't use 2 cycles on high ozone days
Paperless invoicing
We compost and have 800 cubic yds of it for fertilize
Our mulch is from substainable forestry(but only 100 cubic yards) the rest is from normal sources.
Our outdoor wood projects also are from substainable forestry
We GPS our routes to save fuel
Use non motorized pruning tools when applicable
Our shop is cool very eco friendly
We participate in our community Earth Day and Arbor Day, recycling drive, and in Jan we go around and pick up Christmas trees from homes for FREE and have a "Chipping of the green" community party and the city gives the mulch away.
We give away 2000 trees a year
We do use some eco friendly herbicides
Conclusion:
This industry like others will always be somewhat harmful to the eco, but doing just a little will help the earth and your business.Mine went balistic I was large before but now its overwhelming.
Join your community programs, Earth Day Network, Arbor Day Foundation
And it comes down to productivity and being green isn't always an option. Last year I was at a Eco Green conference and everyone there flew in then went and drove dune buggies in the desert.

Votum Gardens LLC
03-07-2009, 02:15 AM
Didn't read through all the posts mainly because of all the political crap that started getting spouted, but let me ask you something. What has the better enviromental impact? A living landscape that has irrigation that is properly managed or a dead landscape with no irrigation from drought so that when it rains you have erosion? Atlanta anyone? How about this one instead? An organic fertilizer with HIGH phosphorous content that will get washed into groundwater or a properly applied slow release fertilizer that actually applies the nutrients needed for the lawn? Green is about substainability. Work with the enviroment, and help it when it needs it.

topsites
03-07-2009, 02:35 AM
how about property, is your shop green? solar panels, wind?

It depends, the thing is to go solar or wind I'm looking at 20 thousand dollars for a starter kit,
that will produce just over half the energy my home consumes...
But there are things we can do at minimal cost.

Most of this involves an adjustment, all of it involves effort.

1. There isn't a single incandescent bulb in my house, all CFL's, this has been like that for several years.
2. My attic's insulation is R-50, that's a foot-and-a-half thick and abides by green industry standards, the basement is next.
3. The shower faucet is a water saver, my toilet is a 2-stage flush, the hot water heater is set to 124.
4. My thermostat is a programmable digital, temperatures in winter are set to 65, 81 in summer.

Those are the easy things.
Yes, of course I have storm windows. :p

Then there's appliance replacement, but this is neither cheap nor cost-effective to do for the sake of energy alone.
But for the reasons that they are old, I'd say 15-20 years at least, and more than that it has to need replacing.
So...
5. The stove is being replaced soon, with an energy star one.
6. The refrigerator, ditto, same with the heat pump.

After all that, I have to re-calculate the house's energy requirements, this is still a few years down the road.

Right now, for solar?
I would need an 8 kwh system:
https://www.affordable-solar.com/asgpower-8.1-kw-solar-home-KD180.htm
That's near a top of the line system but believe it or not most homes consume a whole lot more than this.

So the first problem is reducing energy requirements, but also cost per kwh...
It's too high, that system runs $4.60 a watt...
It won't be for some years the price will come down to around $2-3 a watt.
By then I need to see if I can further reduce energy needs, to say a 6 or 7 kwh system.

LKNBigFish
03-07-2009, 06:41 AM
Quite funny that you jump to a conclusion that I'm "pro" man-made global warming/ man-made climate change.:laugh:
Nothing could be further from the truth!
I'm simply "pro" common sense, for common sense's sake.
Utilizing renewable energies first and foremost makes 100% common sense, despite how much oil & coal are left domestically or across the border.

If you take the time to dig down deep and look at the names behind the numbers and graphs, there's not alot of legitimate science involved in this o-so-trendy global warming scheme.
It's largely based upon a U.N.-funded and backed agenda that's designed, over the long term, to better redistribute the world's wealth from it's richer nations to it's poorer.
There has never been a more grand hoax in the history of this entire world than the one Mr. Gore & Co. are trying to pull off.


i couldnt agree more!

LKNBigFish
03-07-2009, 06:49 AM
Gee, sure sorry I missed that li'l spiff! :)
You're not the ONLY one to have gone a few rounds lately with Mr. Elitist from the left coast. :laugh:

Trying to gain the upper hand on liberals like Kiril is like trying to ice a cake with a hammer. :hammerhead: The results ain't pretty! :laugh:

Liberals generally just want to visualize humanity on the same playing field and working together "for the common good" (...which amounts to socialism, and Obamaism :cry:).
Wheras a true conservative believes everyone born in this country has a fair shot at "their piece of the pie".

These respective sets of beliefs can be brought down into a microcosm, and examined individually in the context of the current global warming debate; y'know, the one where Al Gore said over & over "the debate's over...(about global warming)?
Yet Mr. Gore has publicly NEVER taken on any opposition in a debate regarding his man made global warming/ climate change agenda! Does he lack the courage? Is he still gun-shy from the loss to Bush 8 years ago?
No....I'll bet he's kept quiet..."for the common good" of the cause, because he knows deep down it's all just a big friggin' LIE! :dizzy:

Many conservatives like myself know that global warming, or "global climate change" as they're now calling it, is a myth.
Yet we think logically, and understand that there's a beginning, a middle and an end to everything, including oil, gas & coal.
No one's saying we're gonna stop using these non-renewables any time soon, LKN. You gotta think of these changes as happening more gradually (than what alot of media outlets portray), over a period of 3-4 decades possibly.

And you gotta remember, there's plenty of other uses of oil besides what's refined & put in our cars. There's asphalt roads, shingled roofs, yada...yada..yada...even the horticultural / dormant oil we use on our trees & landscape came from crude oil!
We will be using oil for many, many, MANY years.

The logical thing to do... is to ramp up all the other renewable stuff now, so that we can stretch the oil, gas & coal we may need out into the distant future, as far as possible, right?!? :waving:

i am with you on ramping up renewables, i would just prefer the market do it rather than the government. the market is slower but i think we have time, and the market generally does a better job.

a lot of the green technology and prices for renewables are just getting down to a level that makes sense. a few more years of this trend and everybody will be replacing their hvac with geo-thermal units and will be changing their water heaters out for solar systems, etc.

the trend is in the right direction, albeit slower than some would like.

LKNBigFish
03-07-2009, 06:57 AM
It depends, the thing is to go solar or wind I'm looking at 20 thousand dollars for a starter kit,
that will produce just over half the energy my home consumes...
But there are things we can do at minimal cost.

Most of this involves an adjustment, all of it involves effort.

1. There isn't a single incandescent bulb in my house, all CFL's, this has been like that for several years.
2. My attic's insulation is R-50, that's a foot-and-a-half thick and abides by green industry standards, the basement is next.
3. The shower faucet is a water saver, my toilet is a 2-stage flush, the hot water heater is set to 124.
4. My thermostat is a programmable digital, temperatures in winter are set to 65, 81 in summer.

Those are the easy things.
Yes, of course I have storm windows. :p

Then there's appliance replacement, but this is neither cheap nor cost-effective to do for the sake of energy alone.
But for the reasons that they are old, I'd say 15-20 years at least, and more than that it has to need replacing.
So...
5. The stove is being replaced soon, with an energy star one.
6. The refrigerator, ditto, same with the heat pump.

After all that, I have to re-calculate the house's energy requirements, this is still a few years down the road.

Right now, for solar?
I would need an 8 kwh system:
https://www.affordable-solar.com/asgpower-8.1-kw-solar-home-KD180.htm
That's near a top of the line system but believe it or not most homes consume a whole lot more than this.

So the first problem is reducing energy requirements, but also cost per kwh...
It's too high, that system runs $4.60 a watt...
It won't be for some years the price will come down to around $2-3 a watt.
By then I need to see if I can further reduce energy needs, to say a 6 or 7 kwh system.


have you considered waiting on thes solar system? the prices on these systems are and have been dropping pretty rapidly. and as much as i would rather not see the government in it, i am pretty sure the incentives are going to get much larger in the next few years.

it would be a shame to spend the big bucks now when in a few years you could do the same for half the price due to more incentives and the economy of scale.

Kiril
03-07-2009, 07:44 AM
Gee, sure sorry I missed that li'l spiff! :)
You're not the ONLY one to have gone a few rounds lately with Mr. Elitist from the left coast. :laugh:

Trying to gain the upper hand on liberals like Kiril is like trying to ice a cake with a hammer. :hammerhead: The results ain't pretty! :laugh:

Gee, here you go and note how funny it was that the other dude thought you supported global warming theory, and then the next post do the same to me, and incorrectly TWICE! Dude, now that is classic Marcos for you there.

If Marcos, you took the time to actually examine the science, assuming you were even qualified, you might realize that there is reason for concern .... and I am NOT talking about atmospheric changes.

Fact of the matter is, there is ALOT of hot air on BOTH sides of the fence and people like you and this other yahoo who's opinion are strictly based on the party line and corporate propaganda are a friggen joke. Here we have two classic examples of people who are unable to think for themselves. You can now continue with your silly posturing.

Kiril
03-07-2009, 07:52 AM
What has the better enviromental impact? A living landscape that has irrigation that is properly managed or a dead landscape with no irrigation from drought so that when it rains you have erosion?

Why are these the only options? Surely you must know you can have a beautiful landscape with little or no supplemental water.

Let me ask you this .... would you prefer to have water for your landscape or water for your house?


How about this one instead? An organic fertilizer with HIGH phosphorous content that will get washed into groundwater or a properly applied slow release fertilizer that actually applies the nutrients needed for the lawn?

Ummmm, you need to get your facts straight dude.

Green is about substainability. Work with the enviroment, and help it when it needs it.

You make the above two implications, then throw this in. :dizzy:

LKNBigFish
03-07-2009, 08:13 AM
kiril, what party do i belong to? did i ever vote for g.w.? no!

you use terms like "party line" and "propaganda" to avoid talking about the facts. typical liberal, you dont like what someone has to say so you just get partison.

i thought you were done with this conversation.

Kiril
03-07-2009, 09:34 AM
kiril, what party do i belong to?

I have no party affiliation .... how does that grab you?

you use terms like "party line" and "propaganda" to avoid talking about the facts.

And which facts would those be ... the ones generated by political and corporate agendas?
Really dude .... your "facts" are a joke. How about some peer reviewed research to back your position?

BTW, what exactly is my take on global warming? The only thing I have stated is given the science I have reviewed, the impacts humans have on this planet are significant.

openbook
03-07-2009, 01:06 PM
Ok I didn't read all the posts(like most on here they get way off base fast)
I'll answer the original question with what my Go Green Landscape Co practices.
Equipment:
All Diesels run on bio-diesel
We took advantage of the tax credit and bought 2 Hybrid Chevy Trucks
We use E-85 fuel

Practices:
We don't use 2 cycles on high ozone days
Paperless invoicing
We compost and have 800 cubic yds of it for fertilize
Our mulch is from substainable forestry(but only 100 cubic yards) the rest is from normal sources.
Our outdoor wood projects also are from substainable forestry
We GPS our routes to save fuel
Use non motorized pruning tools when applicable
Our shop is cool very eco friendly
We participate in our community Earth Day and Arbor Day, recycling drive, and in Jan we go around and pick up Christmas trees from homes for FREE and have a "Chipping of the green" community party and the city gives the mulch away.
We give away 2000 trees a year
We do use some eco friendly herbicides
Conclusion:
This industry like others will always be somewhat harmful to the eco, but doing just a little will help the earth and your business.Mine went balistic I was large before but now its overwhelming.
Join your community programs, Earth Day Network, Arbor Day Foundation
And it comes down to productivity and being green isn't always an option. Last year I was at a Eco Green conference and everyone there flew in then went and drove dune buggies in the desert.


Thanks for trying to get this thread back on track.

Why don't you other guy's go start your own thread where you try to prove who's side is right.

When I tried to say there's no way to win this argument because of all the conflicting data out there they agreed with me and then went on to post a bunch of links. WTF? :nono:

LKNBigFish
03-07-2009, 05:32 PM
I have no party affiliation .... how does that grab you?



And which facts would those be ... the ones generated by political and corporate agendas?
Really dude .... your "facts" are a joke. How about some peer reviewed research to back your position?

BTW, what exactly is my take on global warming? The only thing I have stated is given the science I have reviewed, the impacts humans have on this planet are significant.

where are these peer reviewed articles that support your claims? you keep talking about them but have provided nothing? where are your facts period?

you have provided nothing but b.s. lets have some facts!

Kiril
03-07-2009, 05:44 PM
What part of "extensive links posted in the off-topic forum" do you not understand? Man you are thick,

weasel
03-07-2009, 09:33 PM
Thanks for trying to get this thread back on track.

Why don't you other guy's go start your own thread where you try to prove who's side is right.

When I tried to say there's no way to win this argument because of all the conflicting data out there they agreed with me and then went on to post a bunch of links. WTF? :nono:

Maybe we should start another thread? lol
I'm interested in what others are doing to be "Green" as a Commercial LCO.

openbook
03-08-2009, 01:58 PM
I think I will soon. I've been reading some magazines and books and am putting together my plan for a part time residential maintenance business utilizing organic practices.

Votum Gardens LLC
03-08-2009, 02:36 PM
Kiril,
Why can't you have both? Use the water properly and you can. Soil moisture sensors, rain gauges, and proper maintenence can all have positive impacts on the landscape. BTW succulents like cactus don't do too well in Mi. You idiots in California never have used water right and now it's biting you in the ass. Yeah let's grow stuff in Death Valley, brillant idea there. :hammerhead:

Do you know what causes algae blooms in ponds and lakes? Phosphorous. Organic fertilizer has it, a lot. Wonder why regulations are coming about for spreading manure? That's why.

And for the record as an individual who has a PhD in Biology, and three Bacheloers in Chemistry, Climatology, and Botany from MSU, I do understand the data that is being used by quacks to promote the fear crap known as Global Warming. Try looking up such things as the hydrological cycle, carbon cycle and other actual data before spouting off your know it all attitude.

Hopefully you have a better attitude when dealing with customers, otherwise I wish you luck.

Chris Burisek
03-08-2009, 11:19 PM
I am in the process of starting my "green" business. I have been doing lawn applications for 16 years (chemical and organics) and am very comfortable in it because I know the business well. I decided to sell my application business and start a distribution company selling 100% organic lawn care and landscape products. Well I know about the product and reasoning behind it I have no idea how much I can sell or how much $ I can make, but I am taking that risk. I think it is a great thing to offer so I will be contacting as many landscapers and lawn care providers as I can. I will also try to sell to golf courses, tree services, schools or homeowners. If anyone has any ideas please let me know, it's a big risk and this year will be fun. If anyone is thinking of offering it I think it will set you apart from others, especially if you only offer organic/natural lawn care. Good luck to all.

Kiril
03-08-2009, 11:36 PM
Kiril,
Why can't you have both? Use the water properly and you can. Soil moisture sensors, rain gauges, and proper maintenence can all have positive impacts on the landscape. BTW succulents like cactus don't do too well in Mi. You idiots in California never have used water right and now it's biting you in the ass. Yeah let's grow stuff in Death Valley, brillant idea there. :hammerhead:

Who said anything about succulents? Use regionally appropriate plants, ideally those that are native to the region. Fact of the matter is dude, in many areas of the country water availability is getting mighty scarce .... would you rather have water for your personal needs, or have that 2 acre lawn?

Try looking up such things as the hydrological cycle, carbon cycle and other actual data before spouting off your know it all attitude.

Is this aimed at me? Who has the know it all attitude in this thread? You got two buffons who have based their entire argument against global warming on political opinion pieces and corporate propaganda. I asked for peer reviewed literature to support their position .... where is it?

Certainly with the credentials you just threw out there you understand the importance of peer review and publication? Perhaps you could point us to some of your publications on the matter, being you have now claimed to be the expert here with the PhD and all.

FYI, this topic has been discussed to death in the off-topic forum, and quite frankly I am tired of the same ol ignorant, politically motivated bullshiit.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=206782

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=213334


Shall I reference some studies with regard to hydrology, or soil science, or plant biology? These are all fields I am qualified to review.

Let's start with a few from hydrology since you brought it up (already posted in one of the above threads). Not sure if they are all published, but they are relevant.

Kiril
03-08-2009, 11:38 PM
One example of a specific area of USGS research in the field Hydroclimatology (http://water.usgs.gov/nrp/currenttopics.html#hydroclimatology):

Biotic Response to Climatic Variability and Human Impacts in Arid Lands (http://water.usgs.gov/nrp/proj.bib/betancourt.html)

REPORTS PUBLISHED 1998-2007

Bowers, J. E., in press. Has climatic warming altered spring flowering date of Sonoran Desert shrubs?: Southwestern Naturalist.

Hereford, R. and Betancourt, J.L., in press, Historic geomorphology of the San Pedro River: archival and physical evidence. In: Stromberg, J. and Tellman, B., Ed., Ecology and Conservation of Desert Riparian Ecosystems: The San Pedro River Example. University of Arizona Press, Tucson

McCabe, G.J., Betancourt, J.L., Gray, S.T., Palecky, M. A., Hidalgo, H.G., in press,,Associations of multi-decadal sea-surface temperature variability with U.S. drought: Quaternary International.

McLaughlin, S.P. and Bowers, J.E., in press, Effects of Exotic Grasses on Soil Seed Banks in Southeastern Arizona Grasslands: Western North American Naturalist.

Betancourt, J.L., Schwartz, M.D., Breshears, D.D., Brewer, C.A., Frazer, G., Gross, J.E., Mazer, S.J., Reed, B.C., and Wilson, B.E., 2007, Evolving plans for a USA National Phenology Network: Eos, Transactions American Geophysical Union, v. 88, p. 211.

Gray, S.T., Graumlich, L. J., and Betancourt, J.L. 2007, Annual precipitation in the Yellowstone National Park region since AD 1173: Quaternary Research, v. 68, p. 18-27. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Holmgren, C., Norris, J., and Betancourt, J. L., 2007, Inferences about winter temperatures and summer rains from the late Quaternary record of C4 perennial grasses and C3 desert shrubs in the northern Chihuahuan Desert: Journal of Quaternary Science, v. 22, no. 2, p. 141-161. (on-line abstract or on-line journal article in pdf format, 2031 KB - published on-line in 2006 by John Wiley & Sons as a U.S. government work in the public domain)

McCabe, G., Betancourt, J.L., Hidalgo, H.G. 2007, Associations of decadal to multidecadal sea-surface temperature variability with Upper Colorado River flow: Journal of the American Water Resources Association, v. 43, no. 1, p. 183–192. doi:10.1111/j.1752-1688.2007.00015.x (on-line abstract of journal article)

Quade, J., Rech, J.A., Latorre, C.H., Betancourt, J.L., Gleeson, E., Arroyo, M.T.K., 2007, Soils at the hyperarid margin: The isotopic composition of soil carbonate from the Atacama Desert: Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, v. 71, no. 15, p. 3,772-3,795. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Bowers, J. E., 2006, Branch length mediates flower production and inflorescence architecture of Fouquieria splendens (ocotillo): Plant Ecology, v. 186, no.1, p. 87-95. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Bowers, J.E., Bean, T.M., and Turner, R.M., 2006, Two decades of change in distribution of exotic plants at the Desert Laboratory, Tucson, Arizona: Madroño v. 53, p. 252-263. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Drees, K.P., Neilson, J.W., Betancourt, J.L., Quade, J., Henderson, D.A., Pryor, B., and Maier, R.M., 2006, Bacterial community structure of soils in a hyperarid region of the Atacama Desert: Applied and Environmental Microbiology, v. 72, p. 7,902-7,908. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Gray, S.T., Betancourt, J.L., Jackson, S.T., and Eddy, R., 2006, Role of multidecadal climate variability in a range extension of pinyon pine: Ecology, v. 87, p. 1,124-1,130. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Holmgren, C., Betancourt, J.L., and Rylander, K.A., 2006, A 36,000-yr history of the Peloncillo Mountains, southeastern Arizona, USA: Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology, v. 240, p. 405-422. (on-line abstract)

Keeley, J.E., Allen, C.D., Betancourt, J.L., Chong, G.W., Fotheringham, C.J. and Safford, H.D., 2006, A 21st century perspective on postfire seeding: Journal of Forestry, v. 104, no. 2, p. 103-104.

Latorre, C., Betancourt, J.L., and Arroyo, M.T.K., 2006, Vegetation and climate history of a perennial river canyon in the Rio Salado Basin (22°S) of northern Chile: Quaternary Research, v. 65, no. 3, p. 450-466. (on-line abstract of journal article)

McLaughlin, S.P. and Bowers, J.E., 2006, Plant species richness at different scales in native and exotic grasslands in southeastern Arizona: Western North American Naturalist, v. 66, p. 209-221.

Norris, J.T., Jackson, S.T., and Betancourt, J.L., 2006, Classification tree and minimum-volume ellipsoid analyses of the distribution of ponderosa pine in the western USA: Journal of Biogeography, v. 33, p. 342-360. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Parks, J.A., Dean, J.S., and Betancourt, J.L., 2006, Tree rings, drought and the Pueblo abandonment in south-central New Mexico during the 1670s, in Doyel, D.E., and Dean, J.S, eds., Environmental Change and Human Adaptation in the Ancient Southwest: Salt Lake City, University of Utah Press.

Pederson, G.T., Gray, S.T., Fagre, D.B., and Graumlich, L.J., 2006, Long-duration drought variability and impacts on ecosystem services: Earth Interactions, v. 10, p. 1-28. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Smith, F.A., and Betancourt, J.L., 2006, Predicting woodrat (Neotoma ) responses to anthropogenic warming from studies of the paleomidden record: Journal of Biogeography, v. 33, no. 12, p. 2,061-2,076. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Woodhouse, C.A., Gray, S.T., and Meko, D.M., 2006, Updated streamflow reconstructions for the upper Colorado River basin: Water Resources Research, v. 42, doi:10.1029/2005WR004455. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Betancourt, J.L., Schwartz, M.D., Breshears, D.D., Cayan, D.R., Dettinger, M.D., Inouye, D.W., Post, E., and Reed, B.C., 2005, Implementing a U.S. national phenology network: Eos Transactions American Geophysical Union, v. 86, p. 539, 542. (on-line report in pdf format, 261 KB)

Bowers, J.E., 2005, New evidence for persistent or transient seed banks in three Sonoran Desert cacti: Southwestern Naturalist, v. 50, no. 4, p. 482-487. (on-line abstract of journal article).

Bowers, J.E., 2005. El Niño and displays of spring-flowering annuals in the Mojave and Sonoran deserts: Journal of the Torrey Botanical Society, v. 132, p. 38-49. (on-line abstract or on-line journal article in pdf format)

Bowers, J.E., 2005, Influence of climatic variability on local population dynamics of a Sonoran Desert platyopuntia: Journal of Arid Environments, v. 61, p. 193-210. (on-line abstract or on-line journal article in pdf format)

Jackson, S.T., Betancourt, J.L., Lyford, M.E., and Gray, S.E., and Rylander, K.A., 2005, A 40,000-year woodrat-midden record of vegetational and biogeographic dynamics in northeastern Utah : Journal of Biogeography, v. 32, p. 1,085-1,106. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Latorre, C.L., Betancourt, J.L., Rech, J.A., Quade, J., Holmgren, C., Placzek, C.P., Vuille, M., and Rylander, K.A. 2005, Late Quaternary history of the Atacama Desert, in Smith, M., and Hesse, P., eds., 23 Degrees South: Archaeology and Environmental History of the Southern Deserts: Canberra, National Museum of Australia, p. 73-90.

Maldonado, A., Betancourt, J.L., Latorre, C. and Villagran, C., 2005, Pollen analyses from a 50,000-yr rodent midden series in the southern Atacama Desert (25º30'S): Journal of Quaternary Science, v. 20, no. 5, p. 493-507. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Reynolds, A.C., Betancourt, J.L., Quade, J., Patchett, P.J., Dean, J.S., and Stein, J., 2005, 87Sr/86Sr sourcing of ponderosa pine used in Anasazi great house construction at Chaco Canyon, New Mexico: Journal of Archaeological Science,v. 32, p.1,061-1,075. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Kiril
03-08-2009, 11:39 PM
Continued from above:


Barclay, A.D., Betancourt, J.L., and Allen, C.D., 2004, Effects of seeding with ryegrass (Lolium multiflorum) on vegetation recovery following fire in a ponderosa pine (Pinus ponderosa) forest: International Journal of Wildland Fire, v. 3, p. 183-194. (on-line abstract)

Betancourt, J.L. 2004, Arid lands paleobiogeography: The fossil rodent midden record in the Americas, in Lomolino, M.V. and Heaney, L.R., eds., Frontiers in Biogeography: New Directions in the Geography of Nature: Sunderland, Sinauer Associates, p. 27-46.

Bowers, J.E., 2004, The best spring ever - Why El Niño makes the desert bloom: Sacramento, California, California Native Plant Society.

Bowers, J.E., 2004, Temporal variation in longevity of Opuntia engelmannii (Cactaceae) flowers: Madroño, v. 51, p. 280-285. (on-line abstract)

Bowers, J.E., 2004, Diversified germination behavior of Parkinsonia microphylla (foothill paloverde, Fabaceae): Madroño, v. 51, p. 286-291. (on-line abstract)

Bowers, J.E., 2004, Frequently asked questions about the Saguaro: Tucson, Western National Parks Association, 20 p. (on-line information)

Bowers, J.E., Turner, R.M., and Burgess, T.L., 2004, Temporal and spatial patterns in emergence and early survival of perennial plants in the Sonora Desert: Plant Ecology, v. 172, no. 1, p. 107-119. (on-line abstract)

Gray, S.T., Fastie, C.L., Jackson, S.T., and Betancourt, J.L., 2004, Tree-ring-based reconstruction of precipitation in the Bighorn Basin, Wyoming, since 1260 A.D.: Journal of Climate, v. 17, p. 3,855-3,865. (on-line abstract)

Gray, S.T., Graumlich, L.J., Betancourt, J.L., and Pederson, G.T., 2004, A tree-ring based reconstruction of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation since 1567 A.D.: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 31, doi:10.1029/2004GL019932. (on-line abstract or on-line publication in pdf format)

Gray, S.T., Jackson, S.T., and Betancourt, J.L., 2004, Tree-ring based reconstructions of interannual to decadal scale precipitation variability for northeastern Utah since 1226 A.D.: Journal of the American Water Resources Association, v. 40, p. 947-960. (on-line abstract or on journal article in pdf format)

Maier, R.M., Drees, K.P., Neilson, J.W., Henderson, D.A., Quade, J., and Betancourt, J.L., 2004, Microbial life in the Atacama Desert (letter): Science, v. 306, p. 1,289.

McCabe, G.J., Palecki, M.A., and Betancourt, J.L., 2004, Pacific and Atlantic Ocean influences on multidecadal drought frequency in the United States: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA, v. 101, p. 4,136-4,141. (on-line abstract or lon-line publication in pdf format)

Betancourt, J. L., 2003, Review of "Relation of 'Bonito' paleo-channels and base-level variations to Anasazi occupation, Chaco Canyon, New Mexico" by E.R. Force and others: Progress in Physical Geography , v. 27, no. 2, p. 308-309. (on-line book review)

Betancourt, J.L., Grissino-Mayer, H.D., Salzer, M.W., and Swetnam, T.W., 2003, Reply to Genty and Baker: Quaternary Research, v. 59, p. 479.

Gray, S.T., Betancourt, J.L., Fastie, C.L., and Jackson, S.T., 2003, Patterns and sources of multidecadal oscillations in drought-sensitive tree-ring records from the central and southern Rocky Mountains: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 30, no. 6, p. 49-1 - 49-4. (on-line abstract)

Hofreiter, M., Betancourt, J.L., Sbriller, A. P., Markgraf, V., and McDonald, H.G., 2003, Phylogeny, diet and habitat of an extinct ground sloth from Cuchillo Curá, Neuquén Province, southwest Argentina: Quaternary Research, v. 59, p. 364-378. (on-line abstract)

Holmgren, C., Peñalba, M. C., Rylander, K. A., and Betancourt, J. L., 2003, A 16,000 14C yr B.P. packrat midden series from the U.S.A-Mexico Borderlands: Quaternary Research, v. 60, p. 319-329. (on-line abstract or on-line paper in pdf format)

Latorre, C., Betancourt, J.L., Rylander, K.A., Quade, J., and Matthei, O., 2003, A 13.5-kyr vegetation history from the arid prepuna of northern Chile (22-23oS): Paleogeography, Paleoclimatology, Paleoecology, v. 194, p. 223-246. (on-line abstract)

Lyford, M.E., Jackson, S.T., Betancourt, J.L., and Gray, S., 2003, Influence of landscape structure and climate variability in a late Holocene natural invasion: Ecological Monographs, v. 73, p. 567–583. (on-line abstract)

Milne, B. T., Moore, D. I., Betancourt, J. L., Parks, J. A., Swetnam, T. W., Parmenter, R. R., and Pockman, W. T. 2003, Multidecadal drought cycles in south-central New Mexico: Patterns and consequences in Greenland, D., ed., Climate variability and ecosystem response at Long-Term Ecological Research (LTER) sites: Oxford University Press, p. 286-307.

Rech, J.A., Pigati, J.S., Quade, J., and Betancourt, J.L, 2003, Re-evaluation of mid-Holocene wetland deposits at Quebrada Puripica, northern Chile: Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology, v. 194, p. 207-222. (on-line abstract)

Smith, F.A., and Betancourt, J.L., 2003, The effect of Holocene temperature fluctuations on the evolution and ecology of Neotoma (woodrats) in Idaho and northwestern Utah: Quaternary Research, v. 59, no. 2, p. 160-171. (on-line abstract)

Turner, R.M., Webb, R.H., Bowers, J.E., and Hastings, J.R., 2003, The Changing Mile Revisited: Tucson, University of Arizona Press, 334 p. (on-line information)

Betancourt, J.L., 2002, Book review: Interhemispheric Climatic Linkages, edited by Vera Markgraf: Arctic & Alpine Research, v. 34, p. 226-227.

Betancourt, J.L, Grissino-Mayer, Salzer, M.W., and Swetnam, T.W., 2002, A test of "annual resolution" in stalagmites using tree rings: Quarternary Research, v. 58, p. 197-199. (on-line abstract)

Betancourt, J.L., and Saavedra, B., 2002, Nuevo método paleoecológico para el estudio de zonas áridas en Sudamérica: paleomadrigueras de roedores (New paleoecological method for quaternary studies in arid lands of South America: Rodent middens): Revista Chilena de Historia Natural, v. 75, p. 527-546. (on-line abstract in Spanish; on-line abstract in English)

Bowers, J.E., 2002, Regeneration of triangle-leaf bursage (Ambrosia deltoidea: Asteraceae): Germination behavior and between-year seed bank: Southwestern Naturalist, v. 47, p. 449-453.

Bowers, J.E., 2002, Flowering patterns and reproductive ecology of Mammillaria grahamii (Cactaceae), a common, small cactus in the Sonoran Desert: Madroño, v. 49, p. 201-206. (on-line abstract)

Bowers, J.E., and Turner, R.M., 2002, The influence of climatic variability on local population dynamics of Cercidium microphyllum (foothill paloverde): Oecologia, v. 130, p. 105-113. (on-line abstract)

Jackson, S.T., Lyford, M.E., and Betancourt, J.L., 2002, A 4000-year record of woodland vegetation from Wind River Canyon, central Wyoming: Western North American Naturalist, v. 62, p. 405-413. (on-line pdf file)

Kuch, M., Rohland, N., Betancourt, J.L., LaTorre, C., Steppans, S., and Poinar, H.N., 2002, Molecular analysis of a 12,000-year-old rodent midden from the Atacama Desert, Chile: Molecular Ecology, v. 11, p. 913-924. (on-line abstract)

Latorre, C.L., Betancourt, J.L., Rylander, K.A., and Quade, J.A., 2002, Vegetation invasions into Absolute Desert: A 45,000-year rodent midden record from the Calama-Salar de Atacama Basins, Chile: Geological Society of America Bulletin, v. 114, p. 349-366. (on-line abstract)

Lyford, M.E., Betancourt, J.L, and Jackson, S.T., 2002, Holocene vegetation and climate history of the northern Bighorn Basin, southern Montana, USA: Quarternary Research, v. 58, p. 171-181. (on-line abstract)
.
Pearson, S. and Betancourt, J.L. 2002, Understanding arid environments using fossil rodent middens: Journal of Arid Environments, v. 50, p. 499-511. (on-line abstract)

Pedicino, L., Leavitt, S. W., Betancourt, J. L., and Van de Water, P. K., 2002, Historical variations in d13C leaf of herbarium specimens in the southwestern U.S.: Western North American Naturalist, v. 62, p. 348-359. (on-line pdf file)

Rech, J.A., Quade, J. and Betancourt, J.L., 2002, Late Quaternary paleohydrology of the central Atacama Desert (22-24°S), Chile: Geological Society of America Bulletin, v. 114, p. 334-348. (on-line abstract)

Terwilliger, V.J., Betancourt, J.L., Leavitt, S.W., and Van de Water, P.K., 2002, Leaf cellulose dD and d18O trends with elevation and climate in semi-arid species: Geochimica et Coscomochima Acta, v. 66, p. 3,887-3,900. (on-line abstract)

Van de Water, P.K., Leavitt, S.W., and Betancourt, J.L., 2002, Leaf d13C variability with elevation, slope aspect, and precipitation in the southwest United States, Oecologia 132: 332-343. (on-line abstract)

Betancourt, J.L., Rylander, K.A., Penalba, C., and McVickar, J.L., 2001, Late quaternary vegetation history of Rough Canyon, south-central New Mexico, U.S.A.: Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, and Palaeoecology, v. 165, p. 71-95. (on-line abstract)

Bowers, J.E., and Pierson, E.A., 2001, Implications of seed size for seedling survival in Carnegiea gigantea and Ferocactus wislizeni (Cactaceae): Southwestern Naturalist, v. 46, no. 3, p. 272-281.

Bowers, J.E., and Turner, R.M., 2001, Dieback and episodic mortality of Cercidium microphyllum (foothill paloverde), a dominant Sonoran Desert tree: Journal of the Torrey Botanical Society, v. 128, p. 128-140.

English, N.B., Betancourt, J.L., Dean, J.S., and Quade, J., 2001, Strontium isotopes reveal distant sources of architectural timber in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico: Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, v. 98, p. 11,891-11,896. (on-line abstract)

Holmgren, C.A., Betancourt, J.L., Aasen Rylander, K., Roque, J., Tovar, O., Zeballos, H., Linares, E., and Quade, J., 2001, Holocene vegetation history from fossil rodent middens near Arequipa, Peru: Quaternary Research, v. 56, p. 242-251. (on-line abstract)

Hunter, K.L., Betancourt, J.L., Riddle, B.R., Van Devender, T.R., Cole, K.L., and Spaulding, W.G., 2001, Ploidy race distributions since the Last Glacial Minimum in the North American desert shrub, Larrea tridentata: Global Ecology & Biogeography, v. 10, no. 5, p. 521-533. (on-line abstract)

McLaughlin, S.P., Geiger, E.L., and Bowers, J.E., 2001, A flora of the Appleton-Whittell Research Ranch, northeastern Santa Cruz County, Arizona: Journal of the Arizona-Nevada Academy of Science, v. 33, p. 113-131.

Placzek, C., Quade, J., and Betancourt, J.L., 2001, Holocene lake-level fluctuations of Lake Aricota, southern Peru: Quaternary Research, v. 56, p. 181-190. (on-line abstract)

Quade, J. Rech, J., Betancourt, J.L., and Latorre, C., 2001, Mid-Holocene climate in the south-central Andes: Humid or Dry?: Science, v. 292, p. 2391a. (on-line reply)

Anderson, R.S., Betancourt, J.L., Mead J.I., Hevly R.H., Adam D.P., 2000, Mid- and late Wisconsin paleobotanic and paleoclimatic records from the southern Colorado Plateau, USA: Paelogeography, Paleoclimatology, and Palecology 155, p. 31-57. (on-line abstract)

Betancourt, J.L., 2000, The Amazon reveals its secrets - Partly: Science, v. 290, p. 2274-2275.

Betancourt, J.L., Latorre, C., Rech, J.A., Quade, J., and Rylander, K.A., 2000, A 22,000-year record of monsoonal precipitation from northern Chile's Atacama Desert: Science, v. 289, p. 1,542-1,546. (on-line abstract)

Bowers, J.E., 2000, Does Ferocactus wislizeni (Cactaceae) have a between-year seed bank?: Journal of Arid Environments, v. 45, p. 197-205. (on-line abstract)

Brown, T.J., and Betancourt, J.L., 2000, Effect of climate variability and forecasting on fuel treatment schedules in the western U.S.: Proceedings of the U.S. Department of Agriculture and Department of Interior Fire Sciences Workshop, v. 11, Boise, ID, June 15-17, 1999, University of Idaho and the International Association of Wildland Fire, p. 167-172.

McLaughlin, S.P., and Bowers, J.E., 1999, Diversity and affinities of the flora of the Sonoran Floristic Province, in Robichaux, R., ed., Ecology and Conservation of the Sonoran Desert Flora: Tucson, University of Arizona Press, p. 12-35.

Pendall, E., Betancourt, J.L., and Leavitt, S.W., 1999, Paleoclimatic significance of delta D and delta 13C in pinyon pine needles from packrat middens spanning ther last 40,000 years: Paleogeography, Paleoclimatology, and Paleoecology, v. 147, p. 53-72. (on-line abstract)

Swetnam, T.W., Allen, C.D., and Betancourt, J.L., 1999, Applied Historical Ecology: using the past to manage for the future: Ecological Applications 64, p 1189-1206. (on-line abstract)

White, P.S., Harrod, J., Romme, W.H., and Betancourt, J.L., 1999. Role of disturbance and temproal dynamics, in Johnson, N.C., Malk, A.J., Sexton, W.T., and Szaro R., eds, Ecological Stewardship: A Common Reference for Ecosystem Management: Oxford, Elsevier Science Ltd., p. 281-312.

Allen, C.D., Betancourt, J.L., and Swetnam, T.W., 1998, Landscape Changes in the Southwestern United States: Techniques, Long-Term Datasets, and Trends, in Sisk, T. Sisk and others, eds., Land Use History of North America: Providing a Context for Understanding Environmental Change: U.S. Geological Survey Biological Science Report BSR-1998-003, p. 71-84. (on-line report)

Connin, S.L. Betancourt, J.L. and Quade, J., 1998, Late Pleistocene C4 plant dominance and summer rainfall in the southwestern U.S.A. from isotopic study of herbivore teeth, Quaternary Research, v. 50, no. 2, p. 179-193. (on-line abstract)

Pierson, E.A. and Turner, R.M., 1998, Demographic trends from an 85-year study of saguaro (Carnegiea gigantea) at the Desert Laboratory: Ecology, v. 79, p. 2676-2693.

Shanley, J.B., Pendall, E., Kendall, C., Stevens, L.R., Michel, R.L., Phillips, P.J., Forester, R.M., Naftz, D.L., Liu, B., Stern, L., Wolfe, B.B., Chamberlain, C.P., Leavitt, S.W., Heaton, T.H.E., Mayer, B., Cecil, L.D., Lyons, W.B., Katz, B.G., Betancourt, J.L., McKnight, D.M., Blum, J.D., Edwards, T.W.D., House, H.R., Ito, E., Aravena, R.O., and Whelan, J.F., 1998, Chapter 22, Isotopes as indicators of environmental change, in Kendall, C. and McDonnell, J.J., eds., Isotope Tracers in Catchment Hydrology: Elsevier, Amsterdam, p. 761-816. (on-line excerpt)

Smith, F.A. and J..L. Betancourt. 1998. Response of bushy-tailed woodrats (Neotoma cinerea) to late Quaternary climatic change in the Colorado Plateau: Quaternary Research, v. 50, no. 1, p. 1-11. (on-line abstract)

Swetnam, T.R., and Betancourt, J.L., 1998, Mesoscale disturbance and ecological response to decadal climate variability in the American Southwest: Journal of Climate, v. 11, p. 3128-3147. (on-line abstract)

Kiril
03-08-2009, 11:40 PM
And another area: Hydro-climatic Processes and Hazards (http://water.usgs.gov/nrp/proj.bib/mccabe.html)

REPORTS PUBLISHED 2001-2007

McCabe, G.J., Palecki, M.A., and Betancourt, J.L., in press, Ocean influenences on multi-decadal drought frequency in the conterminous United States: Proceedings of the Pacific Climate, (PACLIM) workshop.

McCabe, G., Betancourt, J.L., Hidalgo, H.G. 2007, Associations of decadal to multidecadal sea-surface temperature variability with Upper Colorado River flow: Journal of the American Water Resources Association, v. 43, no. 1, p. 183–192. doi:10.1111/j.1752-1688.2007.00015.x (on-line abstract of journal article)

McCabe, G.J., Clark, M.P. and Hay, L.E., 2007,. Rain-on-snow events in the western United States: Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, v. 88, no. 3, p. 319-328. (on-line abstract or on-line article, in pdf format, 3.41 MB, published by the American Meteorological Society with open access)

McCabe, G.J., and Hay, L.E., 2006. Hydroclimatic aspects of the Upper Klamath River Basin: Proceedings of the 3rd Federal Hydrologic Modeling Conference, Reno, Nevada, April 2-6, 2006, published as a CD-ROM.

Clark, M.P., Slater, A.G., Barrett, A.P., Hay, L.E., McCabe, G.J., Rajagopalan, B., and Leavesley, G.H., 2006, Assimilation of snow covered area information into hydrologic and land-surface models: Advances in Water Resouces, v. 29, p. 1209-1221. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Dyurgerov, M., and McCabe, G.J., 2006. Associations between accelerated glacier mass wastage and increased summer temperature: Arctic, Antarctic, and Alpine Research. v. 38, no. 2, p. 190-197. (on-line abstract of journal article)

McCabe, G.J., and Clark, M.P., 2006, Shifting covariability of North American summer monsoon precipitation with antecedent winter precipitation: International Journal of Climatology, v. 26, no. 8, p. 991-999. (on-line abstract of journal article)

McCabe, G.J., and Palaecki, M.A., 2006, Multidecadal climate variability of global lands and oceans: International Journal of Climatology, v. 26, no. 7, p. 849-865. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Battaglin, W., Hay, L., McCabe, G., Nanjappa, P., and Gallant, A.L., 2005, Climate patterns as predictors of amphibian species richness and indicators of potential stress: Alytes, v., 22, no. 3-4, p. 145-167.

Legates, D.R., Lins, H.F., and McCabe, G.J., 2005, Comments on "Evidence for global runoff increase related to climate warming" by Labat and others: Advances in Water Resouces, v 28, no. 12, p. 1310-1315. (on-line abstract)

Legates, D.R., and McCabe, G.J., 2005, A re-evaluation of the average annual global water balance: Physical Geography, v. 26, p. 467-479. (on-line abstract of journal article)

McCabe, G.J., and Clark, M.P., 2005, Trends and variability in snowmelt runoff in the western United States: Journal of Hydrometeorology, v. 6, no. 4, p. 476-482. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Webb, R.H., Hereford, Richard, and McCabe, G.J., 2005, Climatic fluctuations, drought, and flow in the Colorado River, in Gloss, S.P., Lovich, J.E., and Melis, T.S., eds., The State of the Colorado River Ecosystem in Grand Canyon: U.S. Geological Survey Circular 1282, p. 59-69. (on-line article in pdf format)

McCabe, G.J., and Bunnell, J., 2004. Precipitation and the Occurrence of Lyme Disease in the Northeastern United States: Vector Borne and Zoonotic Diseases, v. 4, no. 2, p.143-148. (on-line abstract of journal article)

McCabe, G.J., Palecki, M.A., and Betancourt, J.L., 2004, Pacific and Atlantic Ocean influences on multidecadal drought frequency in the United States: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences USA, v. 101, p. 4,136-4,141. (on-line abstract or on-line publication in pdf format)

Webb, R.H., McCabe, G.J., Hereford, R., and Wilkowske, C., 2004, Climatic fluctuations, drought, and flow on the Colorado River: U.S. Geological Survey Fact Sheet 3062-04. (on-line fact sheet)

Cayan, D., Dettinger, M., Redmond, K., McCabe, G., Knowles, N., and Peterson, D., 2003, The transboundary setting of California's water and hydropower systems - linkages between the Sierra Nevada, Columbia River, and Colorado River Hydroclimates, in Diaz, H.F., and Woodhouse, B., eds., Climate and Water - Transboundary Challenges in the Americas: Kluwer Academic Publishers, Advances in Global Change Research series, v. 16.

Clark, M.P., Hay, L.E., McCabe, G.J., Leavesley, G.H., Serreze, M.C., and Wilby, R.L., 2003, The use of weather and climate information in forecasting water supply in the western United States, in Lewis, W.M., ed., Water and Climate in the Western United States: University of Colorado Press, Boulder, Colorado, p. 69-92.

McCabe, G.J., and Wolock, D.M., 2003, Is streamflow increasing in the conterminous United States?: Proceedings of the 19th Annual Pacific Climate (PACLIM) Workshop, Pacific Grove, California, March 2002, p. 93-98.

Meier, M., Dyurgerov, M., and McCabe, G.J., 2003, The health of glaciers - recent changes in glacier regime: Climatic Change: v. 59, p. 123-135. (on-line abstract)

Hay, L.E., and McCabe, G.J., 2002, Spatial variability in water-balance model performance in the conterminous United States: Journal of the American Water Resources Association, v. 38, no. 3, p. 847-860. (on-line abstract)

Markstrom, S.L., McCabe, G., and David, O., 2002, Web-based distribution of geo-ccientific models: Computers & Geosciences, v. 28, p. 577-581. (on-line abstract)

McCabe, G.J., and Dettinger, M.D., 2002, Primary modes and predictability of year-to-year snowpack variations in the western United States from teleconnections with Pacific Ocean climate: Journal of Hydrometeorology, v. 3, p. 13-25. (on-line abstract or on-line pdf file)

McCabe, G.J., and Dettinger, M.D., 2002, Primary modes and predictability of year-to-year snowpack variations in the western United States from teleconnections with Pacific Ocean climate: Proceedings of the 18th Pacific Climate (PACLIM) Workshop, Pacific Grove, Calif., March 2001.

McCabe, G.J., and Dettinger, M.D., 2002, Summary: Primary modes and predictability of year-to-year snowpack variations in the western United States from teleconnections with Pacific Ocean climate: Bulletin of the American Meterological Society, p. 176.

McCabe G.J., and Muller R.A., 2002, Effects of ENSO on weather-type frequencies and properties at New Orleans, Louisiana, USA: Climate Research, v. 20, no. 2, p. 95-105. (on-line abstract)

McCabe, G.J., and Wolock, D.M., 2002, Trends and effects of increased termperature on moisture conditions in the conterminous United States: Climate Research, v. 20, no. 1, p. 19-29. (on-line abstract)

McCabe, G.J., and Wolock, D.M., 2002, A step increase in streamflow in the conterminous United States: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 29, no. 24, p. 2185. (on-line abstract)

Clark, M.P., Serreze, M.C., McCabe, G.J., 2001, Historical effects of El Nino and La Nina events on the seasonal evolution of the montane snowpack in the Columbia and Colorado River Basins: Water Resources Research, v. 37, p. 741-758. (on-line abstract)

Dettinger, M.D., Battisti, D.S., Garreaud, McCabe, G.J., and Bitz, C.M., 2001, Interhemispheric effects of interannual and decadal ENSO-like climate variations in the Americas, in Markgraf, V., ed., Present and past inter-hemispheric climate lnkages in the Americas and their societal effects: Cambridge University Press, p. 1-16.

McCabe, G.J., Clark, M.P., and Serreze, M.C., 2001, Trends in northern hemisphere surface cyclone frequency and intensity: Journal of Climate, v. 14, no. 12, p. 2763-2768. (on-line abstract)

Kiril
03-08-2009, 11:41 PM
And another: Characterization of Biotic and Biogeochemical Interactions at Environmental Interfaces (http://water.usgs.gov/nrp/proj.bib/striegl.html)

REPORTS PUBLISHED 1998-2007

Cole, J.J., Prairie, Y.T., Caraco, N.F., McDowell, W.H., Tranvik, L.J., Striegl, R.G., Duarte, C.M., Kortelainen, P., Downing, J.A., Middleburg, J.J., and Melack, J., in press, Plumbing the global carbon cycle: Integrating inland waters into the terrestrial carbon budget: Ecosystems. DOI: 10.1007/s10021-006-9013-8.

Dornblaser, M.M., and Striegl R.G., 2007, Nutrient (N, P) loads and yields at multiple scales and subbasin types in the Yukon River basin, Alaska: Journal of Geophysical Research, doi:10.1029/2006JG000366. (on-line abstract or on-line journal article in pdf format, 564 kb, published in 2007 by American Geophysical Union, not subject to U.S. copyright)

Raymond, P. A., McClelland, J.W.,. Holmes, R.M., Zhulidov, A.V., Mull, K., Peterson, B.J., Striegl, R.G.,. Aiken, G.R., and Gurtovaya, T.Y., 2007, Flux and age of dissolved organic carbon exported to the Arctic Ocean: A carbon isotopic study of the five largest arctic rivers: Global Biogeochemical Cycles, v. 21, GB4011, doi:10.1029/2007GB002934. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Striegl, R.G., Dornblaser, M.M., Aiken, G.R., Wickland, K.P., and Raymond, P.A., 2007, Carbon export and cycling by the Yukon, Tanana, and Porcupine Rivers, Alaska, 2001-2005, Water Resources Research v. 43, W02411, doi:10.1029/2006WR005201 (on-line abstract or on-line journal article in pdf format, 564 kb, published 2007 by American Geophysical Union, not subject to U.S. copyright)

Rao, B.A., Anderson, T.A., Orris, G.J., Rajagopalan, S., Sandvig, R.M., Scanlon, B.R., Stonestrom, D.A., Walvoord, M.A., and Jackson, W.A., 2007, Widespread natural perchlorate in unsaturated zones of the southwest US: Environmental Science & Technology, v. 41, p. 4522-4528. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Walvoord, M.A., and Striegl, R.G., 2007, Increased groundwater to stream discharge from permafrost thawing in the Yukon River basin: Potential impacts on lateral export of carbon and nitrogen: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 34, L12402, doi:10.1029/2007GL030216. (on-line abstract or on-line journal article in pdf format, 457 KB, published 2007 by American Geophysical Union, not subject to U.S. copyright)

Dornblaser, Mark M. and D.R. Halm, eds., 2006, Water and sediment quality of the Yukon River and its tributaries, from Eagle to St. Marys, Alaska, 2002-2003: U.S. Geological Survey Open-File Report 2006-1228, 201 p., Boulder, CO. (on-line abstract or on line report in pdf format, 18 MB)

Downing, J.A., Prairie, Y.T., Cole, J.J., Duarte, C.M., Tranvik, L.J., Striegl, R.G., McDowell, W.H., Kortelainen, P., Caraco, N.F., Melack, J.M., and Middelburg, J.J., 2006, The global abundance and size distribution of lakes, ponds, and impoundments: Limnology and Oceanography, v. 51, no. 5, p. 2388-2397. (on-line abstract of journal article)

King, S.A., Behnke, S., Slack, K., Krabbenhoft, D.P., Nordstrom, D.K., Burr, M.D. and Striegl, R.G., 2006, Mercury in water and biomass of microbial communities in hot springs of Yellowstone National Park, USA: Applied Geochemistry, v. 21, p.1,868-1,879. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Kwicklis, E., Wolfsberg, A., Stauffer, P., Walvoord, M., and Sully, M., 2006, Multiphase, multicomponent parameter estimation for liquid and vapor fluxes in deep arid systems using hydrologic data and natural environmental tracers: Vadose Zone Journal, v. 5, p. 934-950, doi:10.2136/vzj2006.0021. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Striegl, R.G. and Dornblaser, M.M.,, 2006, Dissolved gases and dissolved inorganic carbon, in Schuster, P.F., ed., 2006, Water and sediment quality in the Yukon River Basin, Alaska, during water year 2004: U.S. Geological Survey Open-File Report 2006-1258, chapt. 6, p. 45-46. (on-line chapter in pdf format)

Wickland, K.P., Striegl, R.G., Neff, J.C., and Sachs, T., 2006, Effects of permafrost melting on CO2 and CH4 exchange of a poorly drained black spruce lowland: Journal of Geophysical Research, v. 111, G02011, doi:10.1029/2005JG000099. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Striegl, R.G., Aiken, G.R., Dornblaser, M.M., Raymond, P.A., and Wickland, K.P., 2005, A decrease in discharge-normalized DOC export by the Yukon River during summer through autumn: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 32, L21413, doi:10.1029/2005GL024413. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Striegl, R.G. and Dornblaser, M.M.,, 2005, Dissolved gases and dissolved inorganic carbon, in Schuster, P.F., ed., Water and sediment quality in the Yukon River Basin, Alaska, during water year 2002: U.S. Geological Survey Report 2005-1199, p. 56-57.

Striegl, R.G. and Dornblaser, M.M.,, 2005, Dissolved gases and dissolved inorganic carbon, in Schuster, P.F., ed., Water and sediment quality in the Yukon River Basin, Alaska, during water year 2003: U.S. Geological Survey Open-File Report 2005-1397, p. 49-50. (on-line chapter in pdf format)

Walvoord, M.A., Striegl, R.G., Prudic, D.E., and Stonestrom, D.A., 2005, CO2 dynamics in the Amargosa Desert: Fluxes and isotopic speciation in a deep unsaturated zone: Water Resources Research, v. 41, no 2. (on-line abstract of journal article)

Phillips, F.M., Walvoord, M.A., and Small, E.E., 2004, Effects of environmental change on groundwater recharge in the desert southwest, in Hogan, J.F, Phillips, F.M, and Scanlon, B.R., eds., Groundwater recharge in a desert environment---The southwestern United States: American Geophysical Union Water Science and Applications Series, v. 9, p. 273-294.

Stonestrom, D.A., Abraham, J.D., Andraski, B.J., Baker, R.J., Mayers, C.J., Michel, R.L., Prudic, D.E., Striegl, R.G., and Walvoord, M.A., 2004, Monitoring radionuclide contamination in the unsaturated zone - lessons learned at the Amargosa Desert Research Site, Nye County, Nevada, Workshop on Long-term Performance Monitoring of Metals and Radionuclides in the Subsurface, Rston, VA, April 21-22, 2004: Tallahassee, Florida State University. (on-line paper in pdf format)

Walvoord, M.A., Phillips, F.M., Stonestrom, D.A., Evans, R.D., Hartsough, P.C., Newman, B.D., and Striegl, R.G., 2004, Response to comment on "A reservoir of nitrate beneath desert soils": Science, v. 304, p. 51c. (on-line response)

Walvoord, M.A., and Scanlon, B.R., 2004, Hydrologic processes in deep vadose zones in interdrainage arid environments, in Hogan, J.F, Phillips, F.M, and Scanlon, B.R., eds., Groundwater recharge in a desert environment---The southwestern United States: American Geophysical Union Water Science and Applications Series, v. 9, p. 15-28.

Walvoord, M.A., and Stonestrom, D.A., 2004, Enhanced gas-phase transport in a deep unsaturated zone, Amargosa Desert (U.S.A), Proceedings of the International Conference on Finite-Element Models -- MODFLOW and More, Karlovy Vary, Czech Republic, September 13-16, 2004: Fontainebleau, France, International Association of Hydrologic Sciences (published on CD-ROM).

Walvoord, M.A., Stonestrom, D.A., Andraski, B.J., and Striegl, R.G., 2004, Constraining the inferred paleohydrologic evolution of a deep unsaturated zone in the Amargosa Desert: Vadose Zone Journal, v. 3, p. 502-512. (on-line abstract)

Clow, D.W., Sickman, J.O., Striegl, R.G., Krabbenhoft, D.P., Elliott, J.G., Dornblaser, M., Roth, D.A., and Campbell, D.H., 2003, Changes in the chemistry of lakes and precipitation in high-elevation national parks in the western United States, 1985 -1999: Water Resources Research, v. 39, no. 6, (on-line abstract)

Leland, H.V., 2003, The influence of water depth and flow regime on phytoplankton bio-mass and community structure in a shallow, lowland river: Hydrobiologia, v. 506, n. 1, p. 247-255. (on-line abstract)

Striegl, R.G., and Dornblaser, M.M., 2003, Dissolved gases and dissolved inorganic carbon, in Schuster, P.F., ed., Water and sediment quality in the Yukon River Basin, Alaska, during water year 2001: U.S. Geological Survey Open-File Report 03-427, p. 41-42.

Walvoord,M.A., Phillips, F.M., Stonestrom, D.A., Evans, R.D., Hartsough, P.C., Newman, B.D., and Striegl, R.G., 2003, A reservoir of nitrate beneath desert soils: Science, v. 302, no. 5647, p. 1021-1024. (on-line abstract or full text)

Clow, D.W., Striegl, R.G., Nanus, L., Mast, M.A., Campbell, D.H., and Krabbenhoft, D.P, 2002, Chemistry of selected high-elevation lakes in seven National Parks in the western United States: Water, Air, and Soil Pollution - Focus, v. 2, p. 139-164. (on-line abstract)

Krabbenhoft, D.P, Olson, M.L., Dewild, J.F., Clow, D.W., Striegl, R.G., Dornblaser, M.M., and VanMetre, P., 2002, Mercury loading and methylmercury production and cycling in high-altitude lakes from the western United States: Water, Air, and Soil Pollution, - Focus, v. 2, p. 233-249. (on-line abstract)

Leland, H.V., Brown, L.R., Mueller, D.K., 2001, Distribution of algae in the San Joaquin River, California, in relation to nutrient supply, salinity and other environmental factors: Freshwater Biology, v. 46, no. 9, p. 1139-1167. (on-line abstract)

Striegl, R.G., Kortelainen, P., Chanton, J.P., Wickland, K.P., Bugna, G.C., and Rantakari, M., 2001, Carbon dioxide partial pressure and 13C content of north temperate and boreal lakes at spring ice melt: Limnology and Oceanography, v. 46, no. 4, p. 941-945. (on-line abstract)

Striegl, R.G., and Wickland, K.P., 2001, Soil Respiration and Photosynthetic Uptake of Carbon Dioxide by Ground-Cover Plants in Four Ages of Jack Pine Forest: Canadian Journal for Forest Research, v. 31, p. 1540 - 1550. (on-line abstract)

Wickland, K.P., Striegl, R.G., Mast, M.A., and Clow, D.W., 2001, Carbon gas exchange at a southern Rocky Mountain wetland, 1996-1998: Global Biogeochemical Cycles, v. 15, no. 2, p. 321-335. (on-line abstract)

Clow, D. W., Campbell, D. H., Mast, M.A., Striegl, R.G., Wickland, K.P., and Ingersoll, G.P., 2000, Loch Vale, Colorado - A Water, Energy, and Biogeochemical Budgets Program site: U.S. Geological Survey Fact Sheet 164-99. (on-line fact sheet)

Hutchinson, G.L., Livingston, G.P., Healy, R.W., and Striegl, R.G., 2000, Chamber measurement of surface-atmosphere trace gas exchange: Numerical evaluation of dependence on soil interfacial layer, and source/sink products: Journal of Geophysical Research, v. 105, no. D7, p. 8865-8875. (on-line abstract)

Leland, H.V., and Porter, S.D., 2000, Distribution of benthic algae in the upper Illinois River basin in relation to geology and landuse: Freshwater Biology, v. 44, p. 279-301. (on-line abstract)

Rosenberry, D.O., Striegl, R.G., and Hudson, D.L., 2000, Plants as indicators of focused ground water discharge to a northern Minnesota Lake: Ground Water, v. 38, no. 2, p. 296-303. (on-line abstract)

Striegl, R.G., Schindler, J.E., Wickland, K.P., Hudson, D.C., and Knight, G., 2000, Patterns of carbon dioxide and methane saturation in 34 Minnesota and Wisconsin lakes: Verhandlungen Internationale Vereinigung Limnologie, v. 27., p. 1424-1427.

Anderson, D.E., Striegl, R.G., Stannard, D.I., Michmerhuizen, C.M., McConnaughey, T.A., and LaBaugh, J.W., 1999, Estimating lake atmosphere CO2 exchange: Limnology and Oceanography, v. 44, n. 4, p. 988-1001. (on-line abstract)

Healy, R.W., Striegl, R.G., Michel, R.L., Prudic, D.E., and Andraski, B.J., 1999, Tritium in water vapor in the shallow unsaturated zone at the Amargosa Desert Research Site, in Morganwalp, D.W., and Buxton, H.T., eds., U.S. Geological Survey Toxic Substances Hydrology Program--Proceedings of the Technical Meeting, Charleston, South Carolina, March 8-12, 1999, Subsurface Contamination from Point Sources: U.S. Geological Survey Water-Resources Investigations Report 99-4018C, v. 3., p. 485-490. (on-line abstract)

Prudic, D.E., Striegl, R.G., Healy, R.W., Michel, R.L., and Haas, H., 1999, Tritium and 14C concentrations in borehole UZB-2 at the Amargosa Desert Research Site, 1994-1998, in Morganwalp, D.W., and Buxton, H.T., eds., U.S. Geological Survey Toxic Substances Hydrology Program--Proceedings of the Technical Meeting, Charleston, South Carolina, March 8-12, 1999, Subsurface Contamination from Point Sources: U.S. Geological Survey Water-Resources Investigations Report 99-4018C, v. 3., p. p. 475-484. (on-line abstract)

Riggs, A.C., Striegl, R.G., and Maestas, F.B., 1999, Soil respiration at the Amargosa Desert Research Site, in Morganwalp, D.W., and Buxton, H.T., eds., U.S. Geological Survey Toxic Substances Hydrology Program--Proceedings of the Technical Meeting, Charleston, South Carolina, March 8-12, 1999, Subsurface Contamination from Point Sources: U.S. Geological Survey Water-Resources Investigations Report 99-4018C, v. 3., p. 491-497. (on-line abstract)

Wickland, K.P., Striegl, R.G., Schmidt, S.K., and Mast, M.A., 1999, Methane flux in subalpine wetland and unsaturated soils in the southern Rocky Mountains: Global Biogeochemical Cycles, v. 13, p. 101-113. (on-line abstract)

Leland, H.V., and Berkas, W.R., 1998, Temporal variation in plankton assemblages and physicochemistry of Devils Lake, North Dakota: Hydrobiologia, v. 377, p. 57-71. (abstract on-line)

Leland, H.V. and Fend, S.V., 1998, Benthic invertebrate distributions in the San Joaquin River, California, in relation to physical and chemical factors: Canadian Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, v. 55, p. 1051-1067. (abstract on-line)

Mast, M.A., Wickland, K.P., Striegl, R.G., and Clow, D.C., 1998, Winter fluxes of CO2 and CH4 from subalpine soils in Rocky Mountain National Park, Colorado: Global Biogeochemical Cycles, v. 12, p. 607-620.

Striegl, R.G., Healy, R.W., Michel., R.L., and Prudic, D.E., 1998, Tritium in Unsaturated zone gases and air at the Amazon Desert Research Site, and in spring and river water, near Beatty, Nevada, May 1997: U.S. Geological Survey Open File Report, 97-778, 13p. (on-line report)

Striegl, R.G., and Michmerhuizen, C.M., 1998, Hydrologic influence on methane and carbon dioxide dynamics at two north-central Minnesota lakes: Limnology and Oceanography, v. 43, p. 1519-1529. (on-line abstract)

Striegl, R.G., and Wickland, K.P., 1998, Effects of a clear cut harvest on soil respiration in a jack pine - linchen woodland: Canadian Journal of Forest Research, v. 28, p. 534-539. (on-line abstract)

Kiril
03-08-2009, 11:42 PM
There you go for a start. Put your money where your mouth is Votum.

Go ahead and pick one and lets have an intelligent discussion of the science without the political bullshiit.

weasel
03-09-2009, 12:25 AM
I am in the process of starting my "green" business. I have been doing lawn applications for 16 years (chemical and organics) and am very comfortable in it because I know the business well. I decided to sell my application business and start a distribution company selling 100% organic lawn care and landscape products. Well I know about the product and reasoning behind it I have no idea how much I can sell or how much $ I can make, but I am taking that risk. I think it is a great thing to offer so I will be contacting as many landscapers and lawn care providers as I can. I will also try to sell to golf courses, tree services, schools or homeowners. If anyone has any ideas please let me know, it's a big risk and this year will be fun. If anyone is thinking of offering it I think it will set you apart from others, especially if you only offer organic/natural lawn care. Good luck to all.

I would try the schools and local city/county gov't., home owners w/kids and pet. Explain the safety of the products. Forget the golf courses they need products with immediate results & can't afford to take risks on new products that don't have a long test history. Good luck

Votum Gardens LLC
03-09-2009, 06:50 AM
OK Kiril here we go
And another area: Hydro-climatic Processes and Hazards (http://water.usgs.gov/nrp/proj.bib/mccabe.html)


Dyurgerov, M., and McCabe, G.J., 2006. Associations between accelerated glacier mass wastage and increased summer temperature: Arctic, Antarctic, and Alpine Research. v. 38, no. 2, p. 190-197. (on-line abstract of journal article)



Give me about three days to read all the report and we'll have that scientific discussion. I haven't had the chance to read this one yet.

Using natives is all fine and good, but they still need water during extended periods of drought. What good is a dead landscape going to do when it finally rains and there is nothing to do to slow the runoff? You can have that two acres of turf and water for personnal needs if managed properly. Why the heck does turf have to be irrigated every week? It doesn't if properly intsalled and managed. I can't think of any of my customers who run their systems more than twice a month and they don't even start their systems up until June.

Now here is one question that blew all the minds at a recent conference I was at. Why release all that carbon into the atmosphere from recycling plastics pots when putting those pots in a landfill is locking that carbon up? If the intent is to lower greenhouse gases then doesn't make sense to lock the carbon up? But since there are people out there who become concerned about carbon levels every time a cow farts, it does make one wonder which is the best answer.

LKNBigFish
03-09-2009, 08:01 AM
[QUOTE=

Now here is one question that blew all the minds at a recent conference I was at. Why release all that carbon into the atmosphere from recycling plastics pots when putting those pots in a landfill is locking that carbon up? If the intent is to lower greenhouse gases then doesn't make sense to lock the carbon up? But since there are people out there who become concerned about carbon levels every time a cow farts, it does make one wonder which is the best answer.[/QUOTE]


good point. i would love to see some info on the emissions of recycling plastic versus using virgin. is new plastic "greener" than recycled?

Kiril
03-09-2009, 11:13 AM
Give me about three days to read all the report and we'll have that scientific discussion. I haven't had the chance to read this one yet.

Curious ... why not choose something closer to home and something everyone has access too? Not a problem for me, I can put my hands on the article, but most cannot without having a subscription or paying for access.

Here is one that is in the "neighborhood", and there should be plenty of "model" data for you to question.

http://water.usgs.gov/nrp/proj.bib/Publications/2007/mccabe_clark_etal_2007.pdf

Using natives is all fine and good, but they still need water during extended periods of drought.

Yes they do, but not nearly the amount a regionally inappropriate landscape needs. You also have to consider the benefits of using plants that are adapted to native soil conditions.

What good is a dead landscape going to do when it finally rains and there is nothing to do to slow the runoff?

Certainly you must know this does not have to be the case. Why is it all or nothing with you? Why must it be either turf or bare ground? There are ways of sustainably managing landscapes and soils that do not lead to mass erosion events.

You can have that two acres of turf and water for personnal needs if managed properly. Why the heck does turf have to be irrigated every week? It doesn't if properly intsalled and managed. I can't think of any of my customers who run their systems more than twice a month and they don't even start their systems up until June.

GREAT. In your climate that may be possible. Try doing that in an area where ET exceeds precipitation, or rainfall is not frequent enough to meet ET, or in areas which are prone to drought. Certainly you must understand that your regional conditions cannot be extended to mean everyones? I have gotten into this water resource discussion before with respect to golf, and believe me when I tell you, the amount of water golf consumes yearly would give you reason to sit down.

Now here is one question that blew all the minds at a recent conference I was at. Why release all that carbon into the atmosphere from recycling plastics pots when putting those pots in a landfill is locking that carbon up? If the intent is to lower greenhouse gases then doesn't make sense to lock the carbon up? But since there are people out there who become concerned about carbon levels every time a cow farts, it does make one wonder which is the best answer.

The way I see it, if the net benefits of dumping the junk in the landfill outweigh the net costs of producing/recycling, then you have a good case to just dump it. Problem is, it is not as simple as just looking at carbon sequestration of plastics in landfills. You also need to consider manufacturing and distribution of those products, along with the products that are replaced by recycled plastics.

For example in landscapes; recycled plastic bender board, impact plastic fence posts, products like Trex used for decking, etc.... These are all examples of recycled products that lead to a net reduction in consumed lumber while doing something useful with the garbage. In my eyes this is a plus, both environmentally and with respect to intelligent resource usage.

Also, please keep the stupid "carbon credits" crap out of this discussion since it appeared you were tempted to take the discussion in that direction. That is politically motivated crap I have zero interest in and has nothing to do with science.

Votum Gardens LLC
03-09-2009, 02:12 PM
Curious ... why not choose something closer to home and something everyone has access too? Not a problem for me, I can put my hands on the article, but most cannot without having a subscription or paying for access.

Here is one that is in the "neighborhood", and there should be plenty of "model" data for you to question.

http://water.usgs.gov/nrp/proj.bib/Publications/2007/mccabe_clark_etal_2007.pdf



Yes they do, but not nearly the amount a regionally inappropriate landscape needs. You also have to consider the benefits of using plants that are adapted to native soil conditions.


Um, haven't you been saying that landscape doesn't need irrigation?


Certainly you must know this does not have to be the case. Why is it all or nothing with you? Why must it be either turf or bare ground? There are ways of sustainably managing landscapes and soils that do not lead to mass erosion events.


Where have I ever said that it must be turf or bare ground? To me the landscape isn't just turf, it's trees, shrubs, perennials, annuals and turfgrass all working together as one. All of which needs to be properly managed to provide the most benefical impact. Without rain gardens, bio swales and other techniques incorperated into the landscape turf can't do the job on it's own. Landscape irrigation used properly is a tool to prevent the mass erosion events like Atlanta.


GREAT. In your climate that may be possible. Try doing that in an area where ET exceeds precipitation, or rainfall is not frequent enough to meet ET, or in areas which are prone to drought. Certainly you must understand that your regional conditions cannot be extended to mean everyones? I have gotten into this water resource discussion before with respect to golf, and believe me when I tell you, the amount of water golf consumes yearly would give you reason to sit down.


Regional climate has big impact. Yet the state of Texas isn't having the water issues that 36 other states are, while still meeting the needs of their landscapes, golf courses and agricultural industry. Why? Because they manage it.


The way I see it, if the net benefits of dumping the junk in the landfill outweigh the net costs of producing/recycling, then you have a good case to just dump it. Problem is, it is not as simple as just looking at carbon sequestration of plastics in landfills. You also need to consider manufacturing and distribution of those products, along with the products that are replaced by recycled plastics.

For example in landscapes; recycled plastic bender board, impact plastic fence posts, products like Trex used for decking, etc.... These are all examples of recycled products that lead to a net reduction in consumed lumber while doing something useful with the garbage. In my eyes this is a plus, both environmentally and with respect to intelligent resource usage.

Also, please keep the stupid "carbon credits" crap out of this discussion since it appeared you were tempted to take the discussion in that direction. That is politically motivated crap I have zero interest in and has nothing to do with science.




So the landscape only has enviromental impact on water issues? Am I reading you right on that?

Kiril
03-09-2009, 02:53 PM
Um, haven't you been saying that landscape doesn't need irrigation?

No ... where the hell did you get that from?

Where have I ever said that it must be turf or bare ground?

You have implied it twice now. Without some type of ground cover, this leads to erosion .. and therefore by extension would imply there is no way to create a sustainable landscape that requires little or no water.

What has the better enviromental impact? A living landscape that has irrigation that is properly managed or a dead landscape with no irrigation from drought so that when it rains you have erosion?

What good is a dead landscape going to do when it finally rains and there is nothing to do to slow the runoff?.

Regional climate has big impact. Yet the state of Texas isn't having the water issues that 36 other states are, while still meeting the needs of their landscapes, golf courses and agricultural industry. Why? Because they manage it.

Dude, are you kidding .... TX has no water issues? Texas manages their water resources well? No offense, but you are remarkably uninformed. One example ....

http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/world/north-america/texas-water-shortages-could-cost-state/

I suggest you visit the irrigation forum because TX water issues and their new legislation, which attempts to manage the rather serious water issues is almost a daily topic. If you want more info on TX water issues, you can always PM Fimco-meister ... I'm sure he will be more than happy to fill you in on the details..

So the landscape only has enviromental impact on water issues? Am I reading you right on that?

Seriously Votum .... where are you coming up with this stuff? I never stated or implied that landscapes are the only contributing factor in water issues.

What I have stated is that when potable water supplies are limited, landscapes will be the first place cuts are made with respect to residential/commercial market. This isn't an opinion, it is fact. Look at the many states that have landscape watering restrictions. Would not the logical course of action then be to design a landscape that is regionally appropriate and requires little or no supplemental water?

LKNBigFish
03-09-2009, 03:08 PM
kiril-

why are you trying to pick a fight?

you provided an article and he asked for a few days to go over it before debating you.
since you provided the article it would only be fair to assume you are familiar with it.

are you afraid of giving him a chance to read it?

Kiril
03-09-2009, 03:14 PM
why are you trying to pick a fight?

you provided an article and he asked for a few days to go over it before debating you.
since you provided the article it would only be fair to assume you are familiar with it.

are you afraid of giving him a chance to read it?

I responded to his post ... nothing more, nothing less. What is your point?

LKNBigFish
03-09-2009, 03:24 PM
well for starters, he asked for a few days to read the article you posted and you told him he picked the wrong article.

maybe you should have only posted the articles that you deem fit to debate!

Votum Gardens LLC
03-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Kiril,
And where exactly in those two quotes do I say turf? Read it it says landscape, not turf. As in, and I'll repeat myself, trees, shrubs, perennials be it ornamental grasses, groundcovers or creeping vines, annuals and turfgrass.

Trying reading my final question again. I asked if it was your opinion that the only enviromental impact that the landscape has was water issues. Not that all water issues are due to landscaping.

Votum Gardens LLC
03-09-2009, 03:48 PM
Why are these the only options? Surely you must know you can have a beautiful landscape with little or no supplemental water.

Let me ask you this .... would you prefer to have water for your landscape or water for your house

Gee I wonder where I got the idea that you advocate no irrigation for the Landscape.

Kiril
03-09-2009, 04:08 PM
Gee I wonder where I got the idea that you advocate no irrigation for the Landscape.

No ... actually I advocate no turf ... not no landscape. Really man, that is just as big of a leap as mine was with respect to erosion don't you think? My job is sustainable land and water management. In my area that essentially means irrigation. Once again, please feel free to visit the irrigation forum where the vast majority of my contributions to this site have been made.

As in, and I'll repeat myself, trees, shrubs, perennials be it ornamental grasses, groundcovers or creeping vines, annuals and turfgrass

And my point is, why can you not have a regionally appropriate landscape that requires little or no supplemental water?

Trying reading my final question again. I asked if it was your opinion that the only enviromental impact that the landscape has was water issues. Not that all water issues are due to landscaping.

Yes ... since it was not clear where you even got that question from my post I missed the distinction. My bad.

It would be ignorant of anyone to state the only impact of landscapes on the environment is water related. Does that answer your question?

Perhaps you would like to contribute to the recent discussion of P pollution over in the organics forum since you made the point of mentioning it in this thread?

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=264547

Malm's Lawn&Pest Control
03-10-2009, 07:13 PM
I posted this topic to get useful feedback and information about organic and environment friendly lawn care solutions, not to have pages of useless links to irrelevant material.

It surprises me how some individuals can run a successful and professional business when they argue and call people names over the internet. It shows a lot about yourself AND your business.

with that being said, can we get back on the topic?

AJEcoLawn
04-17-2009, 01:40 PM
Sooo...I'm new to this whole thing. New to the forum...new to the site..but I want to open a "green" lawn care & maintenance business. I think people will love it.

Go for it!

ecoguy
08-18-2009, 10:36 PM
The main difference between Organic Lawn Care and Synthetic Lawn Care, as I understand it, is organic treats the soil while synthetic treats the grass.

rusty_keg_3
08-19-2009, 11:14 PM
We have been green for some time now... but i put it on our myspace in feb... Read it, i think its good...

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=441880478&blogId=469466723

Sasnak53
08-31-2009, 07:48 PM
Yes it is true that die-hard environmentalist would prefer no lawns. The fact is that if you buy a home in the US you are likely to have a lawn. Lawns will be here for quite a while. There are a lot of environmentally conscious people out there who would choose to at least try to save energy and reduce emissions when they maintain their yards. If they don't have time to do it themselves, who do they use?

There aren't many lawn care people out there that use electric equipment, but there are a few. I am one of them. I use an older General Electric Elec Trak garden tractor for the larger jobs and several corded and cordless commercial push mowers for the smaller ones. I use a $500 lithium iron phosphate battery pack and 2500 watt inverter mounted on a back pack to power the push mowers, trimmers, edgers, and blowers. I charge the packs using solar panels.

The equipment isn't as powerful as I would like, but I'm looking forward to the first zero-turn mower from Hustler which will be out this fall. The equipment will improve.

The customers love it. I have more business than I really can handle at this point. Just to clear things up, I'm not in California or Massachussets, I'm in a very "red state". A lot of my clients are politically conservative but like the idea of promoting energy independence.

In other countries like UK, electric lawn equipment is far more common than gas-powered. I'm not saying it is coming here immediately, but it is coming.