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G.L. In Ont
02-27-2009, 07:39 AM
Hey Everyone,

2009 will be an interesting year in Ontario Canada as the provincial pesticide ban kicks in in March.

I have been operating a 100% organic lawn care franchise for the last 5 years and have had some really good results. I have also learned a great deal about growing and maintaining healthy lawns without the use of chemicals.

If there are any operators in my area (north of Toronto - Richmond Hill, Newmarket, Aurora) that may be looking to sub-contract their fertilizing or even considering getting out of it all together I'd be interested in chatting with you. I have already worked with a few companies in the area and had success. Many owners are realizing that building their maintenance (cutting etc) business is a better alternative to trying to get up to speed on the organic process, products etc.

Thanks, Gavin

treegal1
02-27-2009, 08:48 AM
so tell us about your program. what do you use??

Ric
02-27-2009, 10:04 AM
May I suggest this topic be moved to the organic forum.

treegal1
02-27-2009, 11:02 AM
May I suggest this topic be moved to the organic forum.he spammed over there also......I figured over here would get the most entertainment from asking how......

Ric
02-27-2009, 11:52 AM
he spammed over there also......I figured over here would get the most entertainment from asking how......

Treegal

I am not totally against organics. In fact I believe in Bridge
products or using each to get the best of both worlds. But if you Tree Huggers are going to try and tell me synthetics are bad, I put on the boxing gloves.

Now given the liberal politics being practiced in this country, I see a lot of misinformation about both Synthetics and organics. Not unlike an empty barrel, those who know the least make the most noise. Our state legislation commissioned a study of fertilizer run off. This study was done by U of F PhD and people from all walks of the fertilizer industry along with environmentalist They came up with a very workable plan. But politics being what they are, It was never brought up for vote. As results, county by county Tree Huggers mandated local ordinances that are totally off the wall and impossible to comply with.

Thank heavens my county took the middle of the road and pretty much excepted the Commissioned study's recommendations. However this wasn't without a fight.

treegal1
02-27-2009, 12:01 PM
well Ric, your points ring very true, am I would like to see the study that you speak of, i have herd it referenced several time and feel like i am out of the loop somehow on this.

but I have to run down to Marco and set up a tree hugger.

give me a ring if you like.......

Ric
02-27-2009, 12:46 PM
well Ric, your points ring very true, am I would like to see the study that you speak of, i have herd it referenced several time and feel like i am out of the loop somehow on this.

but I have to run down to Marco and set up a tree hugger.

give me a ring if you like.......



Treegal

Yes you have never been in the loop and must not be a member of any professional group, so it doesn't surprise me you never got a copy. I have all 29 PDF pages saved on my computer because it is no longer on the net to my knowledge. But I believe you know your chances of me E mailing it to you.

Kiril
02-27-2009, 02:58 PM
Treegal

Yes you have never been in the loop and must not be a member of any professional group, so it doesn't surprise me you never got a copy. I have all 29 PDF pages saved on my computer because it is no longer on the net to my knowledge. But I believe you know your chances of me E mailing it to you.

And the title of the infamous report is .....................?

Ric
02-27-2009, 10:57 PM
And the title of the infamous report is .....................?

Kiril

You may read the task force report here.

http://www.safepesticideuse.com/pdf/Fertilizer_Task_Force_Final_Report11408-3.pdf

You can compare it to a actual local ordinance here.

http://www.cityofnorthport.com/news/uploads/uploads/Ordinance%20No.%2007-45.pdf

Now I am sure living in Calf. these documents really effect you. But thanks for asking.

Smallaxe
02-28-2009, 06:50 AM
It's not just FL.
It's everywhere, and the results and findings are all the same.

P leaches into waterways, is lie number one.

All the leaves and other organic material going into the lakes is not considered, to be a problem. That's just stupid!!!

Liberal politics, makes stupidity a sign of intelligence for the elite.
The high-brows understand that rotting leaves are 'natural' and would do 'nothing' to harm Mother Earth. It us ignorant masses that can't see it.

People fall for it because they are mostly 'educated' beyond their intelligence.

G.L. In Ont
02-28-2009, 07:02 AM
he spammed over there also......I figured over here would get the most entertainment from asking how......

Just trying to lend a helping hand! In chatting to some of the 'traditional' spray guys up here it seems as though some of them are considering exiting this part of the business or having someone else do it.

It is not unusual that guys that get into this with cutting as their main focus 'dabble' in the turf care side of things with mixed results.

Without stirring up a hornet's nest (maybe it's too late for that), the organic vs. chemical debate will continue here (in Ontario) long beyond this law coming into effect. The way I see it, the 'green' movement, be it philosophy or science will continue to be a hot topic in lawn care into the future.

I am a business person and definitely not a tree hugger. There is definitely a scientific and agronomic approach to growing and maintaining healthy turf without using chemicals. Consumer expectations need to be changed to accept the difference in results.

Am curious to get more input on this.

rcreech
02-28-2009, 07:19 AM
P leaches into waterways, is lie number one.

All the leaves and other organic material going into the lakes is not considered, to be a problem. That's just stupid!!!



Smallaxe,

I agree with you on almost everything you stated...but question your comment about P leaching.

P is an immobile nutrient in the soil unless at very high levels (400#/ac) then leaching may occur.

One of the main ways P is transported is through soil erosion. But if you have soil erosion there are many other issues also.

I agree that there are much larger fish to fry on P other then starting with the lawn business and farming.

As far as P...a person putting down high rates or an organic fert (milorganite I think) is actually putting down more P then I am with a 32-3-8. Did you know that? :laugh: At the OTF this winter an OSU professor stated that as far as P loading...some of the organic products load more then our products.

Just wanted to clarify on the P thing!

Ric
02-28-2009, 08:33 AM
rcreech

The main issue with P in Fla is the fact P is pit mined here in Fla. As early as the 1860s. P was Shipped out of the port of Boca Grande (world famous Tarpon fishing) all over the world. Today the port of Tampa ships P all over the world. The port of Tampa has mountains of rock phosphate waiting to be shipped.

Our soil is very high in P along with a very high pH that soil binds the P so it is unavailable to plants. I have no issues with the P part of the law. By using acid forming fertilizer I can break lose enough P to grow plants.

BTW Dolomite is also Pit Mined Not to far from my house. That might give you idea of the pH problem I face. The river I live on, at one time was mined for P and used to transport P to the deep water port of Boca Grande.

The real issue is N leaching into the water. At present time N is being blamed for Red Tide a microbial that kills fish. Red Tide is a natural occurring microbe that has been here since the beginning of time. Be side killing fish that smell on the beaches, Red Tide causes breathing problems to coastal residents when present. Tourism and retirement living which are main stays of our economy are greatly effected by Red Tide and negate our Disneyland image.

North Port Fla. has a long history as a very up tight community. Originally developed as a land scam by a Mafia owned company it is the only speed trap listed on the interstate hwy system by AAA. Today North Port is also known as having one of the lowest crime rates and lowest sexual predators per capita. A Nazi type police force keeps it that way enforcing even code voilation. Spray trucks are even being stop during the fertilizer ban and checked and even tested for N & P. They are even fining 12-0-0 chelated Iron in tanks. A friend got stopped for speeding and had $ 2,000 cash money on him. North Port claimed it was drug money and kept it. He gave up when he realized a lawyer would cost him more than the money. Not a town I want to even want to drive thur.

Kiril
02-28-2009, 09:02 AM
P is an immobile nutrient in the soil unless at very high levels (400#/ac) then leaching may occur.

That is not necessarily true, especially in FL.

Kiril
02-28-2009, 09:23 AM
Ric,

Thanks for the link. I used to live in FL, so I do have some interest in what is going on there.

The city ordinance you posted says a max of 4 lbs of N / 1000 sq feet in a given year. Is this not sufficient if your soils and irrigation are properly managed? For example recommendations (http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/turf/publications/zoysia.html) for zoysia, a common turf in the south, is 2-3 apps per year at 1 lb of N per 1000 (the task report puts it at 3-6 lbs). Honestly, I don't really see anything in the ordinance that is unreasonable or inconsistent with the task force findings (section D).

Given your cities irrigation restrictions, I would think fertilizers would be the least of your concerns.

Ric
02-28-2009, 09:44 AM
Ric,

Thanks for the link. I used to live in FL, so I do have some interest in what is going on there.

The city ordinance you posted says a max of 4 lbs of N / 1000 sq feet in a given year. Is this not sufficient if your soils and irrigation are properly managed? For example recommendations (http://plantanswers.tamu.edu/turf/publications/zoysia.html) for zoysia, a common turf in the south, is 2-3 apps per year at 1 lb of N per 1000 (the task report puts it at 3-6 lbs). Honestly, I don't really see anything in the ordinance that is unreasonable or inconsistent with the task force findings (section D).

Given your cities irrigation restrictions, I would think fertilizers would be the least of your concerns.


Kiril

You must have lived in the part of South Georgia they call North Florida. Or else didn't read the fertilizer Ban from June 1st to Sept 30th our rainy season. Oct to June we receive very small amounts of rain fall and must grow grass during the rainy season and hopefully keep it alive during the dry season. With new water restrictions, our job is getting harder and harder to keep a nice turf. BTW the East coast of Florida get Bahama effect rain fall which is different than the Gulf side.

Kiril
02-28-2009, 10:35 AM
Ric,

That ban only applies to turf, but I see your point. It is a bit beyond the "Prohibited Application Period" and would seem the easy way out of trying to enforce the recommended code as defined by the task report, especially given your average precipitation during those months.

I'm not sure I would consider an average precipitation of ~ 2"/month during your dry season "dry", but I suppose it is all relative. I would kill for that much water during my dry season .... which is 0"/month.

Either way, less turf is always a good thing, that is unless your business is turf.

Ric
02-28-2009, 11:10 AM
Kiril

So even a tree hugger like yourself can actually read and understand after things are pointed out to you. Fertilizer is not applied like your quarterly tax report. It must be applied with the growing seasons to get the most response.

The soil in my area is calcareous sand. That means no field capacity and no CEC. Spoon feeding is the best way to deal with this soil. Sure slow release is great and a must. But under this ordinance and our climate, Slow release isn't going the distance in the rainy season. I just thank heaven that my county had the smarts (after some persuasion) to adopt the tasks forces recommendations. I can live with those recommendations and cheat a little on those turfs that need a little extra for a short period of time. But here I will also back off my standard anti tree hugger attitude and add that SOM does my soil a world of good and make my synthetics and irrigation work better.

Kiril
02-28-2009, 11:43 AM
So even a tree hugger like yourself can actually read and understand after things are pointed out to you. Fertilizer is not applied like your quarterly tax report. It must be applied with the growing seasons to get the most response.

When are you going to grow up and drop the childish labels? Beyond that, getting pretty tired of your patronizing. Is there a good reason for it, or do you just enjoy being an ass?

The soil in my area is calcareous sand. That means no field capacity and no CEC. Spoon feeding is the best way to deal with this soil. Sure slow release is great and a must. But under this ordinance and our climate, Slow release isn't going the distance in the rainy season.

All the more reason to implement an organic program, or at the very least a bridge program.

But here I will also back off my standard anti tree hugger attitude and add that SOM does my soil a world of good and make my synthetics and irrigation work better.

At least you have some common sense.

Ric
02-28-2009, 12:09 PM
When are you going to grow up and drop the childish labels? Beyond that, getting pretty tired of your patronizing. Is there a good reason for it, or do you just enjoy being an ass?

Kiril

It is easier to drop to your level than try to bring you up to my level.

Kiril
02-28-2009, 12:11 PM
try to bring you up to my level.

And that level would be .... one of a 12 year old?

rcreech
02-28-2009, 01:20 PM
And that level would be .... one of a 12 year old?

Actually Ric just has a birthday....he is not 13! :laugh:

Ric...what are you doing trying to take my place as the anti-green movement? :laugh:

Ric
02-28-2009, 02:18 PM
Actually Ric just has a birthday....he is not 13! :laugh:

Ric...what are you doing trying to take my place as the anti-green movement? :laugh:

rcreech


I was ban from lawnsite's organismic forum many years ago. It doesn't even show on my screen unless I log off. Then I can read but not post to it. I believe my correcting their misinformation was too much for the moderator at the time to handle. I believe he is gone now, but I am still here.

Now my opinion is there is value in organic material in conjunction with 21th century technology and synthetic products. However my views are not currently politically correct. What the left wing must realize is, there is a middle of the road and less synthetics and a little organisms are better than no organisms at all.

BTW You might enjoy my reply to a thread called "Meet the Moderator" in the Organismic forum if it has not been deleted.

Smallaxe
02-28-2009, 03:07 PM
Smallaxe,

I agree with you on almost everything you stated...but question your comment about P leaching.

P is an immobile nutrient in the soil unless at very high levels (400#/ac) then leaching may occur.

One of the main ways P is transported is through soil erosion. But if you have soil erosion there are many other issues also.

I agree that there are much larger fish to fry on P other then starting with the lawn business and farming.

As far as P...a person putting down high rates or an organic fert (milorganite I think) is actually putting down more P then I am with a 32-3-8. Did you know that? :laugh: At the OTF this winter an OSU professor stated that as far as P loading...some of the organic products load more then our products.

Just wanted to clarify on the P thing!

Looking at the numbers of 6-2-0 for Milorganite, the P is 1/3 the level of N.
So your are right.
By the time I got the to 32# of N - I would have 10# of P. Whereas you have only 3.
Winterizing with slow-release N (26-0-0, for exa.) may become a permanent practice for some clients and LCOs. One app per year or every other year.

I don't worry about losing N to leaching or evaporation with Milorganite or Compost though. I don't need as much N in these forms. Rapid growth caused by excess N is not necessary in my lawns.

The big issue is banning P in false pretenses, when it was considered to be 80% caused by OM running through storm sewers into the rivers and accumulating in lakes and ponds along the way.
You are correct also about the only way to get the P in the soil into the water is to erode the soil itself into the water. So it doesn't really matter if I am putting it down in small amounts or not.

timturf
02-28-2009, 06:08 PM
Treegal

I am not totally against organics. In fact I believe in Bridge
products or using each to get the best of both worlds. But if you Tree Huggers are going to try and tell me synthetics are bad, I put on the boxing gloves.
Now given the liberal politics being practiced in this country, I see a lot of misinformation about both Synthetics and organics. Not unlike an empty barrel, those who know the least make the most noise. Our state legislation commissioned a study of fertilizer run off. This study was done by U of F PhD and people from all walks of the fertilizer industry along with environmentalist They came up with a very workable plan. But politics being what they are, It was never brought up for vote. As results, county by county Tree Huggers mandated local ordinances that are totally off the wall and impossible to comply with.

Thank heavens my county took the middle of the road and pretty much excepted the Commissioned study's recommendations. However this wasn't without a fight.

Ric, you got a chance to talk about organics!!!

Bridge or fortified products are great!

Their are many great sythetic products, but their are many bad one's.

Plus and minus of using both organic and sythetic, so why not use both! Either alone, or as a bridge/fortified organic!

Watch the p2o5, mop, you don't want to kill the soil organism, but feed them along with the plant!

My breif thoughts

Tim

PSUTURFGEEK
02-28-2009, 07:57 PM
rcreech


I was ban from lawnsite's organismic forum many years ago. It doesn't even show on my screen unless I log off. Then I can read but not post to it. I believe my correcting their misinformation was too much for the moderator at the time to handle. I believe he is gone now, but I am still here.

Now my opinion is there is value in organic material in conjunction with 21th century technology and synthetic products. However my views are not currently politically correct. What the left wing must realize is, there is a middle of the road and less synthetics and a little organisms are better than no organisms at all.

BTW You might enjoy my reply to a thread called "Meet the Moderator" in the Organismic forum if it has not been deleted.

I agree, the organic thread is full of people who think they can always one up anybody and I will not say this as a knock but we all know very few of them have any kind of background or University education in this field that I consider a science, I spent many years studying Turf and tree care and feel I now have the right to express it how I please.

organic _ And as far as the....... people, yeah that's them up there on the left have your opinion but keep it on your part of the site. Very few of us are treated with any respect when we post over there.

Ric
02-28-2009, 08:04 PM
Ric, you got a chance to talk about organics!!!

Bridge or fortified products are great!

Their are many great sythetic products, but their are many bad one's.

Plus and minus of using both organic and sythetic, so why not use both! Either alone, or as a bridge/fortified organic!

Watch the p2o5, mop, you don't want to kill the soil organism, but feed them along with the plant!

My breif thoughts

Tim


Tim

As a single parent I drilled into my children's heads "It is not WHAT you do, but HOW you do it." an example might be drinking a beer or going to church. Each done in moderation is not bad, but to excess neither is good. So it is with our industry as fertilizer, pesticide applicators.

Organics can be over done and cause pollution just as much as synthetics. I can't write the novel here that it would take to fully explain the advantages of a dual organic-synthetic program. but I will give one example that I use organic products as a benefit on my calcareous sandy soil which lacks CEC, Hydraulic conductivity and Field Capacity. (chemical & water holding). My Sandy soil benefits from SOM (soil organic matter) and holds both water and synthetic chemicals better, meaning less leaching and less product needed to get the same response.

Milorganite got a bad rap earlier in this thread. While I am not a believer in using Milorganite in excess I find it an excellent planting simulate for transplanting field or containers grown plants. Direct contact with the roots does best since Milorganite will not burn roots.

Smallaxe
03-01-2009, 09:30 AM
I agree, the organic thread is full of people who think they can always one up anybody and I will not say this as a knock but we all know very few of them have any kind of background or University education in this field t ...

My first sand box, was pulling weeds in the family garden. Understanding what made plant grow better than others was understood in the soil. Stirring up soil around the base of a plant for the purpose of air and water, adding sand or clay as needed and a constant supply of manure, has always been a pasttime the I enjoy.

When UNIVERSITY products, students, come at me with "sand + clay = concrete", ...not topsoil.
I say, yeah - right.
University money comes from fert and chemical companies. You will NEVER get a balanced education about horticulture, botany, and lawncare from a University. Don't get elitest here.

rcreech
03-01-2009, 09:46 AM
My first sand box, was pulling weeds in the family garden. Understanding what made plant grow better than others was understood in the soil. Stirring up soil around the base of a plant for the purpose of air and water, adding sand or clay as needed and a constant supply of manure, has always been a pasttime the I enjoy.

When UNIVERSITY products, students, come at me with "sand + clay = concrete", ...not topsoil.
I say, yeah - right.
University money comes from fert and chemical companies. You will NEVER get a balanced education about horticulture, botany, and lawncare from a University. Don't get elitest here.

Totally disagree with this!

I think it depends on the University...but I don't think those that matter in "my world" such as Ohio State and Purdue would do that!

They would be ruined if someone found out about it...and we are going to find out anyway!

If something does't work for them and they say it does...we would eventually find out.

These guys are scientist...not puppets. I think they do it for a reason and I totally trust them.

Ric
03-01-2009, 09:58 AM
My first sand box, was pulling weeds in the family garden. Understanding what made plant grow better than others was understood in the soil. Stirring up soil around the base of a plant for the purpose of air and water, adding sand or clay as needed and a constant supply of manure, has always been a pasttime the I enjoy.

When UNIVERSITY products, students, come at me with "sand + clay = concrete", ...not topsoil.
I say, yeah - right.
University money comes from fert and chemical companies. You will NEVER get a balanced education about horticulture, botany, and lawncare from a University. Don't get elitest here.

Smallaxe

Best Garden I ever had was when I lived 1/2 mile from a Dairy farm and had a ready supply of cow poop. I never used synthetic fert just lots of chlordane. That is the closest I have gotten to organic gardening.

Kiril
03-01-2009, 10:02 AM
When UNIVERSITY products, students, come at me with "sand + clay = concrete", ...not topsoil.
I say, yeah - right.

This again?

First, it is sand + clay + silt = adobe

Second, having personally spent many hours digging inch by inch with a bar in this type of soil I can say with certainty it can happen.

University money comes from fert and chemical companies. You will NEVER get a balanced education about horticulture, botany, and lawncare from a University. Don't get elitest here.

Not true Smallaxe .... it all depends on how you structure your education. We all know Rod structured his around chems ...... so that is what you get.

Ric
03-01-2009, 10:09 AM
rcreech

Universities tend to lean to the left and stay politically correct. So it is I am finding more University websites are turning Green. I no longer trust all university information.

rcreech
03-01-2009, 10:13 AM
rcreech

Universities tend to lean to the left and stay politically correct. So it is I am finding more University websites are turning Green. I no longer trust all university information.

I have never trusted "all" university information...but I will say that I trust our two main Universities!

When people post something on here other then from the "major Univerities" I usually take it with a grain of salt.

OSU and Purdue are the stuff up here and if they havn't tested it...it probably isn't worth testing! :waving:

Ric
03-01-2009, 10:53 AM
rcreech

U of F and all of Florida is turning green as witness by the links I posted earlier in this thread. I can no longer trust U of F websites or the county extension service that is funded by the same land grant as U of F.

Now what many people don't realize. PhD at universities live in their own little world researching one of several special interests. They become so engaged in their thing, they can not see the total picture. Ask 2 PhD the same question and you get 3 answers if it is not their current project.

rcreech
03-01-2009, 11:00 AM
rcreech

U of F and all of Florida is turning green as witness by the links I posted earlier in this thread. I can no longer trust U of F websites or the county extension service that is funded by the same land grant as U of F.

Now what many people don't realize. PhD at universities live in their own little world researching one of several special interests. They become so engaged in their thing, they can not see the total picture. Ask 2 PhD the same question and you get 3 answers if it is not their current project.

If I had to guess...I would say you guys with your population etc your people are closer to accepting the green movement then we are.

There are just a bunch of good ol' people up here and they can seperate the crap from the truth!

This is farm country and people up here know what it takes!

I am sure it will change over the next few years...but as of now, the "green movement" is pretty quiet up here! It is around but not being pusher per say!

I dont' see our Universities pushing anything if it ain't gonna work though!

Kiril
03-01-2009, 11:14 AM
OSU and Purdue are the stuff up here and if they havn't tested it...it probably isn't worth testing! :waving:

I find it amusing how you keep extolling the virtues of OSU when they aren't even on the radar for top schools in Ag or environmental sciences.

Ric
03-01-2009, 11:15 AM
rcreech

Here is an example of GREEN MISINFORMATION from the U of F. Lady Bugs won't cure or control Pink Hibiscus Mealybug and I have found several insecticides that do.

http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/creatures/ORN/mealybug/mealybug.htm

NattyLawn
03-01-2009, 11:30 AM
I agree, the organic thread is full of people who think they can always one up anybody and I will not say this as a knock but we all know very few of them have any kind of background or University education in this field that I consider a science, I spent many years studying Turf and tree care and feel I now have the right to express it how I please.

organic _ And as far as the....... people, yeah that's them up there on the left have your opinion but keep it on your part of the site. Very few of us are treated with any respect when we post over there.

Any time you would like to stop in and talk to some organic people not on the left, you're more than welcome.

rcreech
03-01-2009, 11:42 AM
I find it amusing how you keep extolling the virtues of OSU when they aren't even on the radar for top schools in Ag or environmental sciences.

Now that is funny! :laugh:

Kiril
03-01-2009, 11:46 AM
rcreech

Here is an example of GREEN MISINFORMATION from the U of F. Lady Bugs won't cure or control Pink Hibiscus Mealybug and I have found several insecticides that do.

http://entomology.ifas.ufl.edu/creatures/ORN/mealybug/mealybug.htm

You might want to tell APHIS that. :rolleyes:

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/phmealyb.pdf

Kiril
03-01-2009, 11:47 AM
Now that is funny! :laugh:

Yes, I think so too. :laugh:

rcreech
03-01-2009, 12:06 PM
Yes, I think so too. :laugh:

Huhhh! Shows what you know!!!!!

That is funny! Please read below!

I didn't say OSU and PURDUE were the ONLY schools...I specifically said "major universites" but OSU and Purdue are the ones I use! All the schools listed below are awesome ag schools.

I rely heavily on both Purdue and OSU as they are the at the top for ag schools and just fortunate they are both witin 3 hours of my home (OSU is only 1.5 hours).

Testing from OSU or Purdue means much more to me then from TX or FL...so read below and you will see they are both ranked in the top 10 ag schools in the US.

They carry some clout even if you don't want them to! :laugh:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/spec-doct-agricultural

http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~news/story.php?id=2718

Kiril
03-01-2009, 12:14 PM
Find OSU in this list homeboy. :laugh:

http://consusrankings.com/2008/02/15/top-world-universities-in-life-and-agriculture-sciences-2008/

or how about this list?

http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2008/subject_rankings/natural_sciences/

Where is that clout now?

rcreech
03-01-2009, 12:20 PM
Find OSU in this list homeboy. :laugh:

http://consusrankings.com/2008/02/15/top-world-universities-in-life-and-agriculture-sciences-2008/

Where is that clout now?

Look at the heading of your ranking????

Top World Universities in Life and Agriculture Sciences (2008)

It says "IN LIFE" and "AGRICULTURE SCIENCESE"

It doesn't mean these are the TOP AG SCHOOLS!

I thought you said OSU wasn't on the radar for ag schools...and now you are trying to dilute what you said like you always do!!!!!!

Are you saying that Harvard and Yale have a better program then Nebraska, Iowa, Purdue and Ohio State?

Because that is what you posted!

There is my CLOUT!

WAKE UP!!!!!!

rcreech
03-01-2009, 12:37 PM
Here is another one for ya!

Sorry..but you may want to bow out of this one...or we can continue to argue about it and I can continue to prove you wrong as I always do!

BTW...where is Harvard and Yale at??? I don't see them on here? (FREAK'N IDOT!)

http://www.universityportal.net/2008/03/top-university-of-agricultural.html

Kiril
03-01-2009, 12:42 PM
ROFL ... :waving: Yes Rod, you are so right, "agriculture" does not fall under the umbrella of natural sciences or agriculture sciences. :hammerhead:

FYI home slice, the report you linked is NOT a world rank, not did they rank private universities.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2008/08/21/how-we-calculate-the-rankings.html

Schools are unranked and listed separately for America's Best Colleges 2009 if they have indicated that they don't use the SAT or ACT in admission decisions for first-time, first-year, degree-seeking applicants (or, in a few cases, if they didn't receive enough responses on the peer assessment survey to allow us to use their peer score as part of the overall ranking). Other schools were unranked for the following reasons: a total enrollment of fewer than 200 students; a vast proportion of nontraditional students; no first-year students (these are sometimes called upper-division schools). We did not rank private, for-profit universities; nor did we rank a few specialized schools in arts, business, or engineering.

Also, note the title of the "Ag" engineering program offered by OSU.

• Bachelor of Science in Food, Agricultural, and Biological Engineering

Kiril
03-01-2009, 12:46 PM
Here is another one for ya!

Sorry..but you may want to bow out of this one...or we can continue to argue about it and I can continue to prove you wrong as I always do!

BTW...where is Harvard and Yale at??? I don't see them on here? (FREAK'N IDOT!)

http://www.universityportal.net/2008/03/top-university-of-agricultural.html

Hey, FREAK'N Idiot .... did you note the SOURCE of your link.


Source: U.S. News

Fool. :hammerhead:

humble1
03-01-2009, 01:27 PM
Just trying to lend a helping hand! In chatting to some of the 'traditional' spray guys up here it seems as though some of them are considering exiting this part of the business or having someone else do it.

It is not unusual that guys that get into this with cutting as their main focus 'dabble' in the turf care side of things with mixed results.

Without stirring up a hornet's nest (maybe it's too late for that), the organic vs. chemical debate will continue here (in Ontario) long beyond this law coming into effect. The way I see it, the 'green' movement, be it philosophy or science will continue to be a hot topic in lawn care into the future.

I am a business person and definitely not a tree hugger. There is definitely a scientific and agronomic approach to growing and maintaining healthy turf without using chemicals. Consumer expectations need to be changed to accept the difference in results.

Am curious to get more input on this.

I like organics, I use a lot of them, my problem is when the weeds start I have a huge drop off and they want to kill the weeds. I overseed with every aeration, i have the lawn mowed 3.5 inches. How do you handle the weed question with your customers?

Ric
03-01-2009, 03:32 PM
Kiril

My degree in Plant Science is from U of F which is only ranked # 7 in the polls.

And Your degree is from???????????????????

rcreech
03-01-2009, 04:23 PM
ROFL ... :waving: Yes Rod, you are so right, "agriculture" does not fall under the umbrella of natural sciences or agriculture sciences. :hammerhead:

FYI home slice, the report you linked is NOT a world rank, not did they rank private universities.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2008/08/21/how-we-calculate-the-rankings.html

Schools are unranked and listed separately for America's Best Colleges 2009 if they have indicated that they don't use the SAT or ACT in admission decisions for first-time, first-year, degree-seeking applicants (or, in a few cases, if they didn't receive enough responses on the peer assessment survey to allow us to use their peer score as part of the overall ranking). Other schools were unranked for the following reasons: a total enrollment of fewer than 200 students; a vast proportion of nontraditional students; no first-year students (these are sometimes called upper-division schools). We did not rank private, for-profit universities; nor did we rank a few specialized schools in arts, business, or engineering.

Also, note the title of the "Ag" engineering program offered by OSU.

• Bachelor of Science in Food, Agricultural, and Biological Engineering

What is wrong with the US News? Who says any source is better then another?

And who was your source? I didn't even look at the source anyway! I just googled for the top 10 ag schools in the US!

Who cares about the world? And yours was showing LIFE and AGRICULTURE! What is that about?

If you don't that Purdue and Ohio State is in the top 10 AG SCHOOLS in the country and that Yale and Harvard is...you are off your rocker!!!!

rcreech
03-01-2009, 05:29 PM
Kiril,

Here is the source of yours: QS Quacquarelli Symonds

WHO ARE THEY???


And you thought the US News wasn't a good source? :laugh:

This ranking isn't on top ag schools either!
Read it and this is what it says:

"The world's top universities in Natural Sciences based on responses to the Academic Peer Review"

I thought we were talking about the TOP AG SCHOOLS?

How does natural sciences compare?

phasthound
03-01-2009, 08:08 PM
God, you guys are sickening.

rcreech
03-01-2009, 08:13 PM
God, you guys are sickening.

He's your boy! :dizzy:

I'm just like Rambo!

"I didn't draw first blood!"

But you know what happens at the end! :laugh:

Kiril
03-01-2009, 10:03 PM
ROFL .... they are not my lists Rod, and the areas chosen cover all possible fields that might have anything to do with Ag, including no less, Agronomy. Does the U.S. News list cover anything other than the SPECIFIC program of Agriculture Engineering ... nope I don't think so. :cry: :cry:

FYI, I'm not the one who is suggesting plots of liberal disinformation and the only "trustworthy" sources of information come from OSU and Purdue. What a f'n joke.

rcreech
03-01-2009, 10:11 PM
ROFL .... they are not my lists Rod, and the areas chosen cover all possible fields that might have anything to do with Ag, including no less, Agronomy. Does the U.S. News list cover anything other than the SPECIFIC program of Agriculture Engineering ... nope I don't think so. :cry: :cry:

FYI, I'm not the one who is suggesting plots of liberal disinformation and the only "trustworthy" sources of information come from OSU and Purdue. What a f'n joke.

Harvard and Yale were at the top of YOUR list!

Are you saying they have a better Ag program then Illinois, Nebraska, Ohio State and Purdue?

Remember we have been down this road many times....USE YOUR HEAD AND NOT YOUR COMPUTER!!!!

Do you even know anything about OSU and PURDUE? Obviously not...just spouting off again! Check them both out! Stout ag schools!

I don't really care where they are ranked on any list...but trying to make a point!

OSU and Purdue are awesome ag schools!

rcreech
03-01-2009, 10:22 PM
Kiril,

Oh yeah...I was going to ask and forgot!

Does Yale and Harvard even have an ag program? I don't know and don't really care..but I have never seen anything from them!!!!

Would like to see the kids that come out of there with an ag degree.

Hope they got a full ride! :laugh: Because they will never recover their college expenses in the "ag world"!

Do they have an ag program...is what I would like to know!

And how are they listed at the top???

Kiril
03-01-2009, 10:40 PM
Harvard and Yale were at the top of YOUR list!

Not my list Rod .... use your head, not your computer.

rcreech
03-01-2009, 10:45 PM
Not my list Rod .... use your head, not your computer.



Do they have an ag proram?

And if they do...do you think they are BETTER then all the other ag programs in the US?

I went on their site after I posted and FOUND no sign of an AG PROGRAM!

Why are they listed as a top ag program is they don't have one.

My point is...your list is a JOKE!!!!!! Googling will only get you so far my little argumentative tree hugger! You need to quit trying to prove me wrong!

Why do they have schools listed that don't have an active ag program!!!!

Kiril
03-01-2009, 10:56 PM
Does Yale and Harvard even have an ag program? I don't know and don't really care..but I have never seen anything from them!!!!

Tell me, Rod, does a school need to have an "agriculture" program in order to offer programs that are applicable in any environmental field ... including agriculture? Do you read the stuff you post Rod? Any school that offers a degree program in environmental sciences will support a degree with Agriculture emphasis. Sometimes I just can't believe you ever went to college. :hammerhead:

Curious, what makes a good "agricultural" school Rod? Courses in how to drive a tractor? Perhaps you take issue with the list because the U.S. News list doesn't even cover your degree program .... or perhaps because OSU just isn't ranked that well world wide .... I don't know. Seems to me you are putting up alot of fuss over nothing. Wait ... I forgot ... if it doesn't come out of OH, it is meaningless. :laugh: Now it all makes sense.

Would like to see the kids that come out of there with an ag degree.

And you think they would be driving tractors? :laugh: You really need to get a clue Rod.

The rest of the world laughs at Rod. :laugh: :waving:

PSUTURFGEEK
03-01-2009, 10:56 PM
Any time you would like to stop in and talk to some organic people not on the left, you're more than welcome.

Hey thanks for the invite if my business schedule slows down enough in the near future I will do just that. And as far as the left goes I didn't say everyone and knew for a while now that you guys believe in pesticides.

rcreech
03-01-2009, 11:05 PM
Tell me, Rod, does a school need to have an "agriculture" program in order to offer programs that are applicable in any environmental field ... including agriculture? Do you read the stuff you post Rod? Any school that offers a degree program in environmental sciences will support a degree with Agriculture emphasis. Sometimes I just can't believe you ever went to college. :hammerhead:

Curious, what makes a good "agricultural" school Rod? Courses in how to drive a tractor? Perhaps you take issue with the list because the U.S. News list doesn't even cover your degree program .... or perhaps because OSU just isn't ranked that well world wide .... I don't know. Seems to me you are putting up alot of fuss over nothing. Wait ... I forgot ... if it doesn't come out of OH, it is meaningless. :laugh: Now it all makes sense.



And you think they would be driving tractors? :laugh: You really need to get a clue Rod.

The rest of the world laughs at Rod. :laugh: :waving:


Way to try and cover yourself!!!!!

Also I didn't say it had to come out of OH...I also said Purdue (which is in IN) or any other "major university".

There you go again saying things I didn't say!

ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES....does not = AG BTW! They are nothing of the same!

My degree is in Agricultural Science (Agronomy and Turf) and I only had to take 1 Env science class! Didn't have any tractor driving classes either, but wish they would have! :cry:

I looked and there are only 54 colleges in the COUNTRY that off agronomy courses...and Yale wasn't one of them! :laugh:

So does Yale and Harvard have an AG program (not environmental science)?

Thats what I thought!

Schooled ya again!

Kiril
03-01-2009, 11:15 PM
There you go Rod, equating a course in "environmental science" with all possible directions a environmental science program can go in. Never heard of a custom tailored degree Rod ..... :hammerhead:

Fact of the matter is, if you had even bothered to look at the course offerings from any of these institutions you ridicule, you might realize that a person could build a very strong degree program that is VERY much related and relevant to agriculture.

Problem is, you don't want to hear that do you Rod? If the school doesn't have an "agriculture" program, or offer a course in "agronomy", then I guess that means the school has no way of educating a person to be successful in agricultural industry.

You need to go to bed now Rod, cause you are displaying your ignorance once again.

BTW, I forgot you include IL as part of your "qualified" world, given that is where your seed supplier resides. How silly of me to limit your egocentric view of the world to just OH. How about we call your "relevant" world ILOH from now on.

WTF are you arguing for anyhow Rod? Embarrassed your alma mader doesn't rank that high world wide?

Kiril
03-02-2009, 12:16 AM
I looked and there are only 54 colleges in the COUNTRY that off agronomy courses...and Yale wasn't one of them! :laugh:

LOL, only 54.

98 Colleges offering Majors in Agronomy/Crop Science

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/servlet/advsearchservlet?buttonPressed=viewResults&navigateTo=9&viewpage=1&odbparam=major:63&AffiliateID=MCP_Major&BannerID=AgronomyandCropScience

52 colleges offering Majors in Agricultural Engineering

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/servlet/advsearchservlet?buttonPressed=viewResults&navigateTo=9&viewpage=1&odbparam=major:420&AffiliateID=MCP_Major&BannerID=AgriculturalEngineeringandBioengineering

186 Colleges offering Majors in Agriculture - General

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/servlet/advsearchservlet?buttonPressed=viewResults&navigateTo=9&viewpage=1&odbparam=major:3&AffiliateID=MCP_Major&BannerID=Agriculture,General

And that is assuming the above resource is all inclusive.

Ok, I'm ready for you to skool me some more Rod. :laugh:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb052.gif

rcreech
03-02-2009, 07:00 AM
There you go Rod, equating a course in "environmental science" with all possible directions a environmental science program can go in. Never heard of a custom tailored degree Rod ..... :hammerhead:

Fact of the matter is, if you had even bothered to look at the course offerings from any of these institutions you ridicule, you might realize that a person could build a very strong degree program that is VERY much related and relevant to agriculture.

Problem is, you don't want to hear that do you Rod? If the school doesn't have an "agriculture" program, or offer a course in "agronomy", then I guess that means the school has no way of educating a person to be successful in agricultural industry.

You need to go to bed now Rod, cause you are displaying your ignorance once again.

BTW, I forgot you include IL as part of your "qualified" world, given that is where your seed supplier resides. How silly of me to limit your egocentric view of the world to just OH. How about we call your "relevant" world ILOH from now on.

WTF are you arguing for anyhow Rod? Embarrassed your alma mader doesn't rank that high world wide?

:laugh:

I am not embarrassed in any way and why would I be! In fact...I am very proud! The world ranking you posted has nothing to do with "ag schools" so it doesn't bother me. How can a school without a program rank so high?

#1) My seed Co is in INDIANA not ILLINOIS

#2) I didn't go to Ohio State! I went to a much smaller school (Morehead State University) in KY. They had a good ag program...but nothing like the big boys!

rcreech
03-02-2009, 07:01 AM
#1) My seed Co is in INDIANA not ILLINOIS

#2) I didn't go to Ohio State! I went to a much smaller school (Morehead State University) in KY. They had a good ag program...but nothing like the big boys!

I did a google for the TOP agronomy schools in the US and it said there were only 54 schools with agronomy! I think there are only 3 schools in OH with agronomy (that I know of anyway). Just was going by what it said!

I am not going to argue with you!

If you think Yale and Harvard is a GOOD ag school and the Purdue and OSU isn't...keep thinking that!

That will go real well along with all the other bullcrap you believe!

GO BUCKS!

rcreech
03-02-2009, 07:14 AM
I did a google for the TOP agronomy schools in the US and it said there were only 54 schools with agronomy! I think there are only 3 schools in OH with agronomy (that I know of anyway). Just was going by what it said!

I am not going to argue with you!

If you think Yale and Harvard is a GOOD ag school and the Purdue and OSU isn't...keep thinking that!

It is not the classes a school offers that makes them a good school IMO. It is the testing, research, extension etc that seperates them from one another.

This will go real well along with all the other bullcrap you believe!

GO BUCKS!

Smallaxe
03-02-2009, 07:34 AM
Smallaxe

Best Garden I ever had was when I lived 1/2 mile from a Dairy farm and had a ready supply of cow poop. I never used synthetic fert just lots of chlordane. That is the closest I have gotten to organic gardening.

You compostted your cow manure first, then had it tested b4 using it in the garden of course. :)

Smallaxe
03-02-2009, 07:44 AM
Totally disagree with this!

I think it depends on the University...but I don't think those that matter in "my world" such as Ohio State and Purdue would do that!

They would be ruined if someone found out about it...and we are going to find out anyway!

If something does't work for them and they say it does...we would eventually find out.

These guys are scientist...not puppets. I think they do it for a reason and I totally trust them.

Just like it would ruin the news media if the masses discovered they were pushing Obama and slanting all the reporting in his favor. We would never tolerate that. :laugh:

Fertlizers DO work, that is not the issue. Can they be used wisely? In conjunction with microbials? Can we clean up the lakes and streams naturally?

Propaganda is as much about what is NOT said as what IS said.

And such a narrow view of truth and knowledge do they promote!!! My recipe for topsoil is exactly the same recipe that Kiril has for Adobe.
How many UniGrads can explain why...

Ric
03-02-2009, 08:38 AM
You compostted your cow manure first, then had it tested b4 using it in the garden of course. :)

Composted yes, tested no. That was over 25 years ago and I am still here after freezing and eat everything grown in my garden. I don't see any ill effects in my children either.


Just like it would ruin the news media if the masses discovered they were pushing Obama and slanting all the reporting in his favor. We would never tolerate that. :laugh:

Fertlizers DO work, that is not the issue. Can they be used wisely? In conjunction with microbials? Can we clean up the lakes and streams naturally?

Propaganda is as much about what is NOT said as what IS said.

And such a narrow view of truth and knowledge do they promote!!! My recipe for topsoil is exactly the same recipe that Kiril has for Adobe.
How many UniGrads can explain why...

Smallaxe

AH, Like the Liberal Media isn't pushing Obama?? Yes the unsaid is as or more important as the said. But that is meat for the political section of this forum.

As a university grad. The difference between Adobe and good topsoil is a matter of the percents of each compound used. Moisture or the lack of it plays a big part in making Adobe a stable solid. Organic matter plays a big part in keeping Topsoil moist. Too much organic matter and adobe will fall a part. It is the physical properties of clay that play the biggest factor in making Adobe. Clay once void of moisture becomes very hard and when certain clays are mixed in the correct proportions and baked we call it fine china. BTW without moisture of some type there is no life, Microbial or other wise. Thermophiles are a group of microbials that can live in very hot environment, but only if moisture is present.


Kiril

I am still waiting for an answer as to which top university you got your degree from seeing how you are such an expert. You appear to have missed my question or are avoiding it.

Kiril
03-02-2009, 09:44 AM
I am still waiting for an answer as to which top university you got your degree from seeing how you are such an expert. You appear to have missed my question or are avoiding it.

No, I didn't miss it, but why bother? You will label it as liberal propaganda machine and Rod will ridicule it because it is not one of his "big two". But if you really must know, UCD.

cenlo
03-02-2009, 09:55 AM
Hey Everyone,

2009 will be an interesting year in Ontario Canada as the provincial pesticide ban kicks in in March.

I have been operating a 100% organic lawn care franchise for the last 5 years and have had some really good results. I have also learned a great deal about growing and maintaining healthy lawns without the use of chemicals.

If there are any operators in my area (north of Toronto - Richmond Hill, Newmarket, Aurora) that may be looking to sub-contract their fertilizing or even considering getting out of it all together I'd be interested in chatting with you. I have already worked with a few companies in the area and had success. Many owners are realizing that building their maintenance (cutting etc) business is a better alternative to trying to get up to speed on the organic process, products etc.

Thanks, Gavin

Who said it was going to be in effect in March? As far as I know it is not finalized, and it may not start this year!

ted putnam
03-02-2009, 10:15 AM
Who said it was going to be in effect in March? As far as I know it is not finalized, and it may not start this year!

Hey...WTF...I thought this was a "No Spin" zone! :rolleyes: :laugh:

Ric
03-02-2009, 10:16 AM
No, I didn't miss it, but why bother? You will label it as liberal propaganda machine and Rod will ridicule it because it is not one of his "big two". But if you really must know, UCD.


Oh University College Dublin?? I didn't know you were Irish. No it is not in the top 10, but OSU is.

Ric
03-02-2009, 10:19 AM
Hey...WTF...I thought this was a "No Spin" zone! :rolleyes: :laugh:

Ted

Canada is the socialistic model for Obama's America. Please have reverences for Canada.

Kiril
03-02-2009, 10:25 AM
Oh University College Dublin?? I didn't know you were Irish. No it is not in the top 10, but OSU is.

Gee, aren't you funny Ric. UCD = University of California-Davis .... or the #1 hit on Google when searching for "UCD" :hammerhead:

I have around 260 units of higher education which include an A.S. in Computer Engineering, B.S. in Soil & Water Science, and 3-5 courses from a 2nd B.S. in Applied Plant Biology. I basically custom tailored my degree to Soil-Water-Plant Relationships, and included some other areas as well (Ecology, Geology) in my program.

Is that good enough for you Ric?

Ric
03-02-2009, 10:41 AM
Gee, aren't you funny Ric. UCD = University of California-Davis .... or the #1 hit on Google when searching for "UCD" :hammerhead:

I have around 260 units of higher education which include an A.S. in Computer Engineering, B.S. in Soil & Water Science, and 3-5 courses from a 2nd B.S. in Applied Plant Biology. I basically custom tailored my degree to Soil-Water-Plant Relationships, and included some other areas as well (Ecology, Geology) in my program.

Is that good enough for you Ric?

Kiril

Don't excluded those over 10 posts a day here on lawnsite in you resume. That should be worth a PhD in lack of common sense.

Kiril
03-02-2009, 10:49 AM
Don't excluded those over 10 posts a day here on lawnsite in you resume. That should be worth a PhD in lack of common sense.

Oh wait .... did I forget the 15 years of field experience as an adult?
Pretty much the response I expected from you Ric, hence the reason why I didn't respond to your first post.
Thanks for playing though. :waving:

::adds 1 to LS post count::

Don't you have a liberal disinformation plot to expose?

greenskeeper44
03-02-2009, 11:05 AM
You guys are awesome.........i appreciate the free entertainment!

rcreech
03-02-2009, 12:28 PM
Ric,

Please not that he isn't answering my questions either! :laugh:

Kiril would have been much better off just staying over "there" and talking about microbes...but he had to come over here once again and try and ruffle some feathers.

I don't mind...as long as he looks like the idiot he is! It is kind of entertaining I guess!

Kiril
03-02-2009, 12:30 PM
Please not that he isn't answering my questions either!

Ask an intelligent question and I might answer it ... otherwise all you are doing is generating alot of hot air. I made my point, get over yourself. Not my problem you can't seem to understand that agriculture falls under the general category of environmental/natural sciences .... but I guess in OH, agriculture isn't part of the environment.

rcreech
03-02-2009, 12:40 PM
Ask an intelligent question and I might answer it ... otherwise all you are doing is generating alot of hot air. I made my point, get over yourself. Not my problem you can't seem to understand that agriculture falls under the general category of environmental/natural sciences .... but I guess in OH, agriculture isn't part of the environment.

I don't see them the SAME as all!

That is like saying that a nursing program is the same as Pre-Med.

Yea...they both work at the hospital together...but ag and env sciences is not one in the same!

Here is my inteligent questions:

1) Do Yale and Harvard have an AG PROGRAM? And if they don't (which I am pretty sure they don't)...then how were they ranked at the top of schools with ag programs?

2) Due to the link you posted....do you think that Harvard and Yale rank about the following schools in ag?

Are you saying they have a better program then:

Illinois
Kansas
U of F
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Iowa State
etc. etc.

Your post doesn't have any of them listed even close to the top...and I can PROMISE you that the US is light years ahead of most countries when it comes to production ag and research.

Ric
03-02-2009, 01:16 PM
You guys are awesome.........i appreciate the free entertainment!

greenskeeper44

Isn't entertainment what this is all about? The unwashed masses like Kiril have been entertaining me for years. The more you insult them the more entertaining they get. Years ago I added a lot of technical information to this site only to realize it goes over most heads. One time I posted the history of John Franz the chemist who developed Roundup and the history of who and where it is has been made etc. The thread was bashed so bad that the moderator deleted a very informative post. Yet I still add still add informative technical information from time to time just to show I am not a member of the unwashed masses.




May I suggest this topic be moved to the organic forum.he spammed over there also......I figured over here would get the most entertainment from asking how......

Treegal

Kudos to you

Kiril
03-02-2009, 01:16 PM
I don't see them the SAME as all!

That is like saying that a nursing program is the same as Pre-Med.

No Rod, that is like saying nursing and pre-med and both in the field of medicine. You are not very good at constructing a logical argument are you?

1) Do Yale and Harvard have an AG PROGRAM? And if they don't (which I am pretty sure they don't)...then how were they ranked at the top of schools with ag programs?

I know Harvard doesn't have a program labeled with "Agriculture" in its title, don't know about Yale. Just because that is the case, it doesn't mean the school in incapable of providing an education in fields relevant to Agriculture. I assume since you have a problem with the ranking, you disagree? You somehow think in order to get an education that can be used in the Agricultural industry you need to attend an University with an "Agricultural" program? Do you understand how idiotic that is Rod?

2) Due to the link you posted....do you think that Harvard and Yale rank about the following schools in ag?

Blah, blah blah. The fact that you base your entire argument on a single list which covers a very specific program (Ag engineering) and extrapolate that to mean all fields related to Agriculture is beyond ignorant. There is only a handful of schools in the surveyed schools that even have that program, which begs the question why they would even bother publishing that ranking.

The question here isn't IF a school has a "Ag" program or not, it is IF the school can provide an education that can be used in Ag. Your entire argument is baseless because you can't seem to get past this simple fact. Guess what Rod, an education from Yale or Harvard is going to carry ALOT more weight in any industry (including Ag) than any of the schools you listed. Is this right ... probably not, but that IS how it is. You can argue that plain an simple fact until the cows come home, it won't change it.

The list is what it is Rod, I could care less what you think about it. If you want to argue the merit of the posted lists then I suggest you take it up with the people who did the rankings.

Kiril
03-02-2009, 01:23 PM
The unwashed masses like Kiril have been entertaining me for years. The more you insult them the more entertaining they get.

And the more you act like a child, (or a bitter old man ... can't decide which is more appropriate), the more credibility you lose. You speak of the "unwashed" masses, but then you post unsubstantiated garbage about liberal plots and information founded in politic opinion, not science, yet you have "risen" above the masses. Damn dude, your ego is so big I'm surprised you even post on this lowly site full of the "unwashed" masses. .... what a joke.


OK everyone, now let us bow to the great Ric. Perhaps he will grace us with another post about liberal plots. :rolleyes:

Ric
03-02-2009, 01:35 PM
OK everyone, now let us bow to the great Ric.

Kiril

I am glad you finally reconized my greatness. :laugh:

rcreech
03-02-2009, 01:36 PM
:laugh:

Thats what I thought!

And yes...if you are going to rank a schools by it AG program...I think they should have one!

Thank you for proving my point!

Can a person form Harvard or Yale work in ag????? Yes!

But that isn't what we are talking about here! We are talking about ranking AG SCHOOLS...not school's that have programs that are related to ag!

Like I said earlier...you obviosly don't know anything about OSU...so why did you jump in and look like an idiot?

Go Bucks!

Kiril
03-02-2009, 01:52 PM
I am glad you finally reconized my greatness. :laugh:

Don't step down off your pedestal on my behalf Ric. If you even knew the first thing about me you wouldn't make the comments you do, but I guess that is what one can expect from self-appointed greatness. If anything, based on the posts I have seen from you, I would say you fall right in line with the "unwashed" masses since you (and Rod) appear to buy into the party line and corporate propaganda machine ... hook, line, and sinker.

@Rod

What point was that Rod? That you can't seem to understand how one goes about getting an education? So tell me Rod, I assume from your latest post you believe Agriculture has nothing to do with natural or environmental sciences ... right? Perhaps if you ask Ric real nice, he will make room on his pedestal for you.

NattyLawn
03-02-2009, 02:00 PM
Isn't Rod on the books as saying he graduated from THE Ohio State University? That was one of his main points in the "other" thread. Now it's Morehead State! Wow, you called Kiril out so many times and it turns out you were lying about your alma mater the whole time.

I've probably been to OSU more times than you have!

rcreech
03-02-2009, 02:10 PM
Isn't Rod on the books as saying he graduated from THE Ohio State University? That was one of his main points in the "other" thread. Now it's Morehead State! Wow, you called Kiril out so many times and it turns out you were lying about your alma mater the whole time.

I've probably been to OSU more times than you have!

Lied!!! :) WOW!

I ALWAYS reference OSU and PURDUE but...I HAVE NEVER STATED I WENT TO OHIO STATE!

I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT!

Most of the guys that know me on here knows where I went!

Why would I lie about where I went to school? :laugh:

I would have love to have been a Buckeye...but I ended up being an Eagle and proud of it!

60,000 people is way to many for me so I went to a small school!

timturf
03-02-2009, 06:34 PM
I don't see them the SAME as all!

That is like saying that a nursing program is the same as Pre-Med.

Yea...they both work at the hospital together...but ag and env sciences is not one in the same!

Here is my inteligent questions:

1) Do Yale and Harvard have an AG PROGRAM? And if they don't (which I am pretty sure they don't)...then how were they ranked at the top of schools with ag programs?

2) Due to the link you posted....do you think that Harvard and Yale rank about the following schools in ag?

Are you saying they have a better program then:

Illinois
Kansas
U of F
Ohio State
Penn State
Purdue
Iowa State
etc. etc.

Your post doesn't have any of them listed even close to the top...and I can PROMISE you that the US is light years ahead of most countries when it comes to production ag and research.

This a lawn site, not an Ag site!

What are the top universities in turfgrass research ?
who really cares on this site about the top Ag schools

rcreech
03-02-2009, 07:12 PM
This a lawn site, not an Ag site!

What are the top universities in turfgrass research ?
who really cares on this site about the top Ag schools


Ag and turf are pretty much one in the same Timturf! :waving:

Soils, nutrients, crop (grass), management etc.

ted putnam
03-02-2009, 07:17 PM
Kiril

Don't excluded those over 10 posts a day here on lawnsite in you resume. That should be worth a PhD in lack of common sense.

I just wish I could support myself and my family posting on Lawnsite...That, in fact is my dream. Does that mean I don't have any common sense. It's not exactly what I'd call field experience, but I don't see why it wouldn't look good on a resume'....

Marcos
03-02-2009, 07:32 PM
OMG.....you work around the shop a few days, you miss alot! :)
Kiril & Rodney Creech going at each other, neck & neck!

Ultra double-feature matinee.......... "battle of the egos". :laugh::laugh:

treegal1
03-02-2009, 08:25 PM
hell i may as well jump back in and toss it around some,

Does Yale and Harvard even have an Ag program? I don't know and don't really care..but I have never seen anything from them!!!!

that rite there say how much of a paluka you are, even farm raised hicks need liars and politricks,any ways AG...

http://yalesustainablefoodproject.wordpress.com/

http://environment.yale.edu/current/Agriculture/

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9404E2D61238EE3BBC4A53DFB466838B679FDE

treegal1
03-02-2009, 08:32 PM
Isn't entertainment what this is all about? The unwashed masses like Kiril have been entertaining me for years. The more you insult them the more entertaining they get. Years ago I added a lot of technical information to this site only to realize it goes over most heads. One time I posted the history of John Franz the chemist who developed Roundup and the history of who and where it is has been made etc. The thread was bashed so bad that the moderator deleted a very informative post. Yet I still add still add informative technical information from time to time just to show I am not a member of the unwashed masses.





Quote:
Originally Posted by treegal1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric
May I suggest this topic be moved to the organic forum.

he spammed over there also......I figured over here would get the most entertainment from asking how......

Treegal

Kudos to you see just the fact you don't like me means we may get along.

sincerely,
the unwashed masses in disguise:laugh:

PS, its not just you, I dont like anyone, so dont think your special.

treegal1
03-02-2009, 08:36 PM
And the more you act like a child, (or a bitter old man ... can't decide which is more appropriate), the more credibility you lose. You speak of the "unwashed" masses, but then you post unsubstantiated garbage about liberal plots and information founded in politic opinion, not science, yet you have "risen" above the masses. Damn dude, your ego is so big I'm surprised you even post on this lowly site full of the "unwashed" masses. .... what a joke.


OK everyone, now let us bow to the great Ric. Perhaps he will grace us with another post about liberal plots. :rolleyes:.stand back!! If he blows we may just wear young compost

rcreech
03-02-2009, 09:21 PM
hell i may as well jump back in and toss it around some,



that rite there say how much of a paluka you are, even farm raised hicks need liars and politricks,any ways AG...

http://yalesustainablefoodproject.wordpress.com/

http://environment.yale.edu/current/Agriculture/

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9404E2D61238EE3BBC4A53DFB466838B679FDE


Thanks for the great links Tree Gal!

Looks like they have a great ag program! :dizzy:

Is that all you could find?

treegal1
03-02-2009, 09:43 PM
Is that all you could find?

what do you want, does your mommy still feed and wipe you also, do a search and read something, or at least be specific about what you want. then again if it does no have to do with corm then it does not get included in the Ag scope of science

timturf
03-03-2009, 07:58 AM
Ag and turf are pretty much one in the same Timturf! :waving:
Soils, nutrients, crop (grass), management etc.

Rcreech, generally agree with you, but not on this one!

Many Ag schoo; have no turfgrass program or a very small program! If I was going into turfgrass for a career, I would at least want to attend a 2yr turfgrass program, if not a 4 yr program.
Alot of the principles are the same, but the specifics are much different! Like studing to be a doctor, if youi want to be a general doctor, or a heart specialist, you proably would choose a different university.

By the way, is Ph D Street still at Ohio State? He was at U of I when I was gc supt in Il.

rcreech
03-03-2009, 08:20 AM
Rcreech, generally agree with you, but not on this one!

Many Ag schoo; have no turfgrass program or a very small program! If I was going into turfgrass for a career, I would at least want to attend a 2yr turfgrass program, if not a 4 yr program.
Alot of the principles are the same, but the specifics are much different! Like studing to be a doctor, if youi want to be a general doctor, or a heart specialist, you proably would choose a different university.

By the way, is Ph D Street still at Ohio State? He was at U of I when I was gc supt in Il.

I guess I put them in the same category myself. Although they are slightly different...they totally overlap in most areas!

It is probably somewhat safe to say that there isn't a college that has turf that isn't tied to their ag program. Our turf program at MSU was directly under the ag program. They directly overlapped and it was actually Golf Course Managment. Was funny to see all the preps in our ag classes. They were clueless! :) But they probably thought the same when this farmboy was sitting in the turf classes!!!! :)

This actually started as turf (when Ric and I were discussing Universities)...and if you look back KIRIL is the one that said OSU wasn't even on "radar" as for as an "AG" school.

That is when I starting using the term "ag schools".

OSU and PURDUE BOTH have an awesome turf program! I mean awesome! It is probably a little more towards the golf course side...but also a ton of turf.

I was saying ag and still mean ag but I was talking turf also!

Dr Street is still at OSU. He is at every OTF and OLCA meeting and/or conference. He knows his crap!

Ric
03-03-2009, 08:33 AM
Tim

My 2 cents.

Education like industry runs on the God Almighty Dollar. Agriculture feeds the world and uses 1000 times the land area and products than Horticulture does. (I forget the actual figures). But just like a Golf Course Budget out weights a Homeowner budget per thousand sq ft, so does the R & D of new technology for Agriculture compared to Horticulture. Horticulture gets the by product from that Agriculture R & D. Sure there is some Turf Grass R & D, But it is weak compared to Feeding the world or producing Ethanol. Therefore Horticulture becomes tied to Agriculture R & D and Education. The great turf Grass colleges are part of a Agriculture University System. But Don't forget Grass is the number one economic plant product in the world. Most grains are in fact Grasses with Soybeans being the big non grass. Even Ethanol is now being produced from grasses. BTW Palms to the surprise of many here are the second most economic used plant group in the world. It is the mass populations of Third world countries that use palms for everything from food to building material. So IMHO Horticulture is very closely related to Agriculture if not one in the same.

Kiril
03-03-2009, 08:36 AM
I guess I put them in the same category myself. Although they are slightly different...they totally overlap in most areas!

Amazing. First you argue that you can't generalize, now you are arguing you can. Make up your mind Rod.

This actually started as turf (when Ric and I were discussing Universities)...and if you look back KIRIL is the one that said OSU wasn't even on "radar" as for as an "AG" school.

This is what I said Rod, and with the exception of the Ag Engineering program (assuming you put faith in the US News rankings), I stand by the statement. With respect to all other programs, they are not on the radar with regard to the rest of the world.

I find it amusing how you keep extolling the virtues of OSU when they aren't even on the radar for top schools in Ag or environmental sciences.

That is when I starting using the term "ag schools".

And that is when you went off topic.

Ric
03-03-2009, 08:45 AM
And that is when you went off topic.

Kiril

And now what is the Topic?????? This thread started as Organic Help. It appears to run the gamut of topics

rcreech
03-03-2009, 08:55 AM
Amazing. First you argue that you can't generalize, now you are arguing you can. Make up your mind Rod.



This is what I said Rod, and with the exception of the Ag Engineering program (assuming you put faith in the US News rankings), I stand by the statement. With respect to all other programs, they are not on the radar with regard to the rest of the world.





And that is when you went off topic.


Env Science does not = Ag

I mean technically I guess you could put Forestry under AG if you want to look at that...but I NOTHING about trees!

Turf and Ag are one in the same!

You know if you would keep your freak'n green butt on the right side...these stupid arguments wouldn't occur!

Smallaxe
03-03-2009, 09:03 AM
Env Science does not = Ag

Turf and Ag are one in the same!

You know if you would keep your freak'n green butt on the right side...these stupid arguments wouldn't occur!

Real Environmental Science includes everything including Ag.

Nit pik that for another 100 posts. :laugh:

Kiril
03-03-2009, 09:21 AM
Env Science does not = Ag

I mean technically I guess you could put Forestry under AG if you want to look at that...but I NOTHING about trees!

Turf and Ag are one in the same!

You know if you would keep your freak'n green butt on the right side...these stupid arguments wouldn't occur!

Rod, your ignorance is truly astounding. What makes up the foundation of an "Ag" or "Turf" program?
Could it be courses in natural and environmental sciences?
No, of course not .... it is courses in under water basket weaving and fashion clothing ... :hammerhead:

Kiril
03-03-2009, 09:23 AM
And now what is the Topic?????? This thread started as Organic Help. It appears to run the gamut of topics

Just following your lead great one, since you dismissed the topic in post #3.

Ric
03-03-2009, 09:30 AM
Real Environmental Science includes everything including Ag.

Nit pik that for another 100 posts. :laugh:

Small

While I will agree Agriculture is part of Environmental Science the focus is different. Agriculture Science is about production and Environmental Science is about the impact on the environment of Agriculture and other man made industry. They serve cross proposes in most cases, not that the environment isn't important. No til planting was the first biggie for Environmental Science and Agriculture.

Ric
03-03-2009, 09:33 AM
Just following your lead great one,

Kiril

Be sure to bowl your head when addressing my greatness.

rcreech
03-03-2009, 09:39 AM
Rod, your ignorance is truly astounding. What makes up the foundation of an "Ag" or "Turf" program?
Could it be courses in natural and environmental sciences?
No, of course not .... it is courses in under water basket weaving and fashion clothing ... :hammerhead:

Exactly Ric! I guess that is what I was trying to say....about Forestry!!!!!


Kiril,

:laugh:

As previously stated, I think I HAD to take one course in env science.

All my classes were soils, fertilility, and crops etc. and unfortunaltly a little econ!!!!

Kiril
03-03-2009, 09:56 AM
All my classes were soils, fertilility, and crops!

And these are not related to natural and environmental sciences how?

Soils, hydrology, chemistry, physics, biology, ecology, etc..... .... all fall under natural and environmental sciences .... no?

Therefore rating a school based on how it ranks with regard to the fields of study that make up an Ag program is not only a valid way to determine how good the school is, but barring an in depth look at every possible program a school offers, I would say it is the only valid way.

Ric
03-03-2009, 10:04 AM
And these are not related to natural and environmental sciences how?

Soils, hydrology, chemistry, physics, biology, ecology, etc..... .... all fall under natural and environmental sciences .... no?

Therefore rating a school based on how it ranks with regard to the fields of study that make up an Ag program is not only a valid way to determine how good the school is, but barring an in depth look at every possible program a school offers, I would say it is the only valid way.

Kiril

Fool Go back and read post number 108.

Kiril
03-03-2009, 10:11 AM
Kiril

Fool Go back and read post number 108.

Ric,

Fool ... go back and read who I quoted in post number 111.

Ric
03-03-2009, 10:20 AM
Ric,

Fool ... go back and read who I quoted in post number 111.

Fool

I saw who you quoted the first time. I just can't help thinking what an idiot you are to continue to Argue the same point unsuccessful.

rcreech
03-03-2009, 10:28 AM
Fool

I saw who you quoted the first time. I just can't help thinking what an idiot you are to continue to Argue the same point unsuccessful.

Exactly Ric!

I call it talking in circles!

This all started out with Kiril saying that OSU and Purdue wasn't even on the radar as far as "ag schools" but we all know (except Kiril) that they both have an awesome ag/turf program.

I think it is hilarious how now he is trying to split hairs on "what makes up an ag program".

Either they have it or they don't!!!!!!

Ric
03-03-2009, 10:39 AM
Exactly Ric!

I call it talking in circles!

This all started out with Kiril saying that OSU and Purdue wasn't even on the radar as far as "ag schools" but we all know (except Kiril) that they both have an awesome ag/turf program.

I think it is hilarious how now he is trying to split hairs on "what makes up an ag program".

Either they have it or they don't!!!!!!

rcreech

There is no cure for stupidity.

Kiril
03-03-2009, 10:47 AM
I just can't help thinking what an idiot you are to continue to Argue the same point unsuccessful.

Funny ... so would you care to demonstrate how what I stated in #111 is inaccurate? Perhaps we should review the required courses for a program that can be related to Agriculture.

Let's go to UCD and the College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences.

How about Plant Sciences (http://registrar.ucdavis.edu/UCDWebCatalog/programs/PLS/PLSreqt.html)

The Major Program

The Plant Sciences major is designed for students who are interested in a scientific understanding of how plants grow and develop in managed agricultural ecosystems and how plant products are utilized for food, fiber and environmental enhancement. Advances in science and technology have provided new insights and options for using plants to address the issues associated with providing renewable food, fiber and energy resources for a growing global population while minimizing adverse impacts on the natural environment. Graduates in Plant Sciences are able to apply their skills and knowledge to a diverse range of agricultural and environmental goals or pursue advanced degrees in plant sciences.

The Program. The curriculum provides depth in the biological and physical sciences and a sound understanding of how plants obtain and utilize resources from their environment to sustain their growth and development. The influences of genetics, management systems and environmental inputs on crop development and productivity are emphasized along with the postharvest preservation and marketing of plant products. Students will develop an area of specialization with options in Crop Production, Plant Genetics and Breeding, or Postharvest Biology and Technology. An Individual option is also available to match specific subject matter or career goal interests in the plant sciences. All students gain practical experience through a combination of practical laboratory courses and internships. Students may also pursue an Honors thesis in their senior year.

Career Alternatives. Graduates from this program are prepared to pursue a wide range of careers, including various technical and management positions in agricultural and business enterprises, farming, or consulting; public, private, and non-profit agencies; Cooperative Extension; international development; teaching; or agricultural and environmental journalism and communication services. Graduates are qualified to pursue graduate studies in the natural and agricultural sciences, such as plant biology, genetics, breeding, horticulture, agronomy, biotechnology, ecology, environmental studies, pest management, education, or business management.

And the major programs offered in Plant Sciences.

Major Programs. See Agricultural Management and Rangeland Resources, Biotechnology, Crop Science and Management, Ecological Management and Restoration, Environmental Horticulture and Urban Forestry, and Plant Sciences.

Go here and click on Agronomy links .... where does it take you ..... oh wait .... plant sciences.

http://registrar.ucdavis.edu/UCDWebCatalog/programs.html

Since UCD ranks above both OSU and U of F in the ranking you and Rod prefer to use, then I guess they MUST be wrong ..... or you now have no leg to stand on, do you?

Please Ric, step down off that pedestal of yours and educate the "unwashed masses". :rolleyes:

Kiril
03-03-2009, 10:48 AM
Exactly Ric!

I call it talking in circles!

This all started out with Kiril saying that OSU and Purdue wasn't even on the radar as far as "ag schools" but we all know (except Kiril) that they both have an awesome ag/turf program.

I think it is hilarious how now he is trying to split hairs on "what makes up an ag program".

Either they have it or they don't!!!!!!

I said OSU, not Purdue Rod, get it straight.

Ric
03-03-2009, 10:53 AM
I said OSU, not Purdue Rod, get it straight.

Kiril

We may have to give you that one. Purdue is # 5 and OSU is only # 8.:laugh::laugh::clapping:

Kiril
03-03-2009, 11:00 AM
Kiril

We may have to give you that one. Purdue is # 5 and OSU is only # 8.:laugh::laugh::clapping:

Yes Fool ... for the specific program of Ag Engineering .... or did you miss that distinction?

Wait ... what department is that program in for OSU ... ENGINEERING!

Wait ... what department is that program in for UCD ... ENGINEERING!

Should I continue? Get your head out of the clouds Ric.

Ric
03-03-2009, 11:10 AM
Yes Fool ... for the specific program of Ag Engineering .... or did you miss that distinction?

Wait ... what department is that program in for OSU ... oh wait .... ENGINEERING!

Get your head out of the clouds Ric.

But Kiril

You put me on such a high pedestal.

Now does all this relate to making you or any of us a better Applicator????

Kiril
03-03-2009, 11:24 AM
You put me on such a high pedestal.

No Ric, I do not. I put you in the same class as Rod.

Now does all this relate to making you or any of us a better Applicator????

None at all. It is you and Rod who are attempting to maintain that a world ranking of schools based on natural and environmental science programs (all inclusive) is irrelevant to Agriculture ... which by extension means Agriculture is not related in any way to natural and environmental sciences.

But wait, you and Rod somehow can relate a ranking based on a specific engineering program to also include all agricultural related programs, such as agronomy, plant science, forestry, animal science, etc.....

Would you and Rod care to continue with your ignorant position?

Ric
03-03-2009, 11:51 AM
Kiril

I think I will bowl out at this point. I get more positive response from a Refrigerator than you. At least when I open the door a light comes on. But I do want to wish you and all your Calfornia Save the Wale People good luck, because you really need it.

Kiril
03-03-2009, 12:00 PM
At least your "witty" retorts are amusing .... even if they only show how narrow minded you are.

G.L. In Ont
03-03-2009, 12:08 PM
Maybe this is a good time for me to ask the question again:

Any operators in the Greater Toronto Area :canadaflag: looking to subcontract the fertilizer portion of their business.

Cheers, Gavin

And :usflag: to our friends and neighbours to the south - thank you for the healthy debate even though it was a little bit unrelated!

And of course :drinkup: to all! The universal sign of peace!

treegal1
03-03-2009, 12:13 PM
GL tell us about it if you would I am all ears, I am genuinely interested to hear your take on it:drinkup::drinkup:

rcreech
03-03-2009, 01:37 PM
I said OSU, not Purdue Rod, get it straight.

Their programs mirror each other...and I have never mentioned OSU by iteself...as I have always stated OSU AND PURDUE!

rcreech
03-03-2009, 02:00 PM
No Ric, I do not. I put you in the same class as Rod.


None at all. It is you and Rod who are attempting to maintain that a world ranking of schools based on natural and environmental science programs (all inclusive) is irrelevant to Agriculture ... which by extension means Agriculture is not related in any way to natural and environmental sciences.

But wait, you and Rod somehow can relate a ranking based on a specific engineering program to also include all agricultural related programs, such as agronomy, plant science, forestry, animal science, etc.....

Would you and Rod care to continue with your ignorant position?

Ric,

You should feel HONORED that Kiril put you in the same class with me! :laugh:

Kiril,

I can't believe that you still think that Yale and Harvard have a better ag or even "environmental program" then OSU, Purdue and all the others.

The people at Yale probably thinks corn grows on trees and that milk comes from the store!!! :dizzy:

Where is all their work and research posted on turf and ag? I go through all kinds of data and don't remember seeing them!

They may have a good environment scince dept...but how does that help me to know what products work best where? Or what management practices work best when?

Please site the page from Yale and Harvard that looks like this:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/lines/bulls.html

or

http://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/

or my favorite....which way name after Sonny Beck (owner of Beck's Hybrids) which is his alma mater. :laugh:

http://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/beck_ag_center/index.shtml


Agree with the refrige comment Ric!

Thanks,
RC

Kiril
03-03-2009, 08:39 PM
Yup, classic spinning in the wind post from Rod. You should take your cues from Ric, at least he knows when to get out.

Smallaxe
03-03-2009, 08:53 PM
So does GL, have a comment?

treegal1
03-03-2009, 08:58 PM
So does GL, have a comment?
sales man, a real organic provider will post there works IMO.......

rcreech
03-03-2009, 10:06 PM
Yup, classic spinning in the wind post from Rod. You should take your cues from Ric, at least he knows when to get out.

Does that mean you have nothing to support what you have been saying?

I think so! :cool2:

Where are your ag or turf related links for the "best" schools you posted?

Kiril
03-04-2009, 09:04 AM
Does that mean you have nothing to support what you have been saying?

What I said is that a world ranking of schools based on natural and environmental studies is relevant to Agriculture because it ranks the very fields of study that make up an agricultural based program. Nothing more .... nothing less. I provided the support, do I need to post a list of courses for every school on the list?

As usual when you lose a debate you change the topic of the debate altogether in a lame attempt to "win". :rolleyes: I don't care if you want to make a public fool of yourself again, in fact I am sure quite a few folks are enjoying it. I'm just waiting for you to work corn into your topic switch .... getting pretty close now.

Basically you are pissing in the wind, arguing you won't get wet as you are getting soaked in piss.

rcreech
03-04-2009, 09:11 AM
What I said is that a world ranking of schools based on natural and environmental studies is relevant to Agriculture because it ranks the very fields of study that make up an agricultural based program. Nothing more .... nothing less. I provided the support, do I need to post a list of courses for every school on the list?

As usual when you lose a debate you change the topic of the debate altogether in a lame attempt to "win". :rolleyes: I don't care if you want to make a public fool of yourself again, in fact I am sure quite a few folks are enjoying it. I'm just waiting for you to work corn into your topic switch .... getting pretty close now.

Basically you are pissing in the wind, arguing you won't get wet as you get soaked in piss.

REVLEVANT isn't good enough! You need to compare apples if we are going to talk smack!

So you DO think (or believe what you read) that Yale and Harvard has a superior program vs all the other Universities with ag programs such as OSU. PURDUE, ILLINOIS, IOWA, FLORIDA etc?

Also...you DON'T recognize thAT OSU and PURDUE are big players and "ON THE RADAR" in Ag and Turf?

That is what I thought!

You show that you can't eat crow and I am cool with that!

Thanks for playing!

PS. Did you like the Beck Bldg at Purdue? :laugh:

Thought you might like that!!!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Kiril
03-04-2009, 09:25 AM
REVLEVANT isn't good enough! You need to compare apples if we are going to talk smack!

Yet another display of idiocy from Rod. Let us all give Rod a hand. :clapping:

The rest is blah blah blah and has NOTHING to do with the world rankings, but please continue Rod.

BTW, my original post.

I find it amusing how you keep extolling the virtues of OSU when they aren't even on the radar for top schools in Ag or environmental sciences.

So please explain how your newest take on what I posted has anything to do with the discussion of world rankings? Are we now comparing schools based on their Ag extension services or are we going to compare the schools based on the quality of the education you are getting from them? FYI, my original point addresses the latter .... it is you and Ric that fail to understand this.

How about you address this specifically Rod. Problem is, you won't, because you will then have to admit you are wrong ... and we all know you will NEVER do that, contrary to what you state all the time.

It is you and Rod who are attempting to maintain that a world ranking of schools based on natural and environmental science programs (all inclusive) is irrelevant to Agriculture ... which by extension means Agriculture is not related in any way to natural and environmental sciences.

But wait, you and Rod somehow can relate a ranking based on a specific engineering program to also include all agricultural related programs, such as agronomy, plant science, forestry, animal science, etc...

So Rod, please show me how I am wrong and how the world rankings I posted are irrelevant to getting a education that can be used in Agriculture.

Ric
03-04-2009, 09:39 AM
rcreech

Give it up, I did. You are not in an intelligence discussion but an argument with a fool. Kiril's empty drum makes a lot of noise but no sense. You guys keep hassling the same points over and over. Let him have the last word so he thinks he is a winner and move on. Those with common sense reading here can be the final judge of who won or the true idiot really is. This is a simple case of a liberal green fool trying to change proven known facts. Harvard and Yale might of been fine agriculture schools back in the 19th century but this is the 21th century. They produce crooked politicians and vicious hedge fund operators today not farmers or spray techs.

Kiril
03-04-2009, 09:45 AM
Yes, yet another politically enlightened factual post from Ric. Bravo Ric ... how about you address the point of the discussion or is throwing around insults the best you can do now?

But wait ... isn't that how it is with types like you and Rod ..... have no reasonable way to support your position, so out come the insults and insinuations. :clapping:

FYI Ric, I am not a liberal .... fool!

rcreech
03-04-2009, 12:01 PM
rcreech

Give it up, I did. You are not in an intelligence discussion but an argument with a fool. Kiril's empty drum makes a lot of noise but no sense. You guys keep hassling the same points over and over. Let him have the last word so he thinks he is a winner and move on. Those with common sense reading here can be the final judge of who won or the true idiot really is. This is a simple case of a liberal green fool trying to change proven known facts. Harvard and Yale might of been fine agriculture schools back in the 19th century but this is the 21th century. They produce crooked politicians and vicious hedge fund operators today not farmers or spray techs.

True there Ric!

I am not sure how one can argue a point when they don't even have one...but oh well!

Have a good one!

HayBay
03-05-2009, 01:07 PM
They are banning Pesticides in Ontario Canada on April 22,2009 Earth Day.

I posted this in G.L's thread in Organic section before I realized there was a thread here in the Synthetic section.

Lol Ric, San Juan Miguel baned you from Orgasmic section. Where the heck is he.

hXXp://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/news/2009/030401.php

Change the HXXP to HTTP in the url above.

Ric
03-05-2009, 01:59 PM
They are banning Pesticides in Ontario Canada on April 22,2009 Earth Day.

I posted this in G.L's thread in Organic section before I realized there was a thread here in the Synthetic section.

Lol Ric, San Juan Miguel baned you from Orgasmic section. Where the heck is he.

hXXp://www.ene.gov.on.ca/en/news/2009/030401.php

Change the HXXP to HTTP in the url above.

HayBay

Good question. I can still log off and read the orgasmic forum as a visitor, but I don't very often. I actually believe in value of orgasmics in conjunction with synthetics. I use less synthetics by using orgasmics and isn't that what the tree huggers are looking for? I will not bad mouth a bridge product program if the Tree Huggers don't bad mouth it. Gaining a little ground is better than not gaining any ground. People don't except radical change but rather a evolution of change. Seems the Orgasmic forum can't except that fact.

HayBay
03-06-2009, 12:57 AM
Orgasmic will be affordable to the customers under 5000 ft sq. but for our premium customers with 15.000 sq ft lots and up will be a very hard sell. 20lb 9n 0p 0k CGM per 1000 ft sq = 900LBS or product per ACRE. We need an 18 wheeler and a forklift to travel from job to job. hehe $409 per app per acre for just product cost and a slight reduction in weeds is gonna be tough to sell. Maybe they will be happier when i give them the aerating and overseeding with certified grass seeds cost.

Sarritor is a fungus/mold that attacks only broadleaf plants. A professor at the University of MCGill and his son are marketing it. 4 applications are required i have heard, per season. Under specific conditions (wet) and it is very expensive/hard to get. Only 3 companies are being supplied with this product out of thousands through out Ontario for 2009. It has a short shelf life as like many organic weed control products (nematodes, BJE, predators, etc.....)

If we could bridge there would be a huge price saving along with total control of weeds.
I will miss striping lawns with the Cub Tank. Weeds just dont fold down like a pristine weed free lawn.

Smallaxe
03-06-2009, 08:33 AM
In this country we spray pre-m once or twice every year on every lawn whether there is a crabgrass threat or not.

We spray every lawn with broadleaf control once or twice a year whether there is a broadleaf weed anywhere.
In fact we are so used to hosing down the middle of the lawn with 2,4d that we often have weeds all around the edges. We don't even train our eyes to see weeds, - just spray the allotted amound out as quickly and as safly as possible and go.

Has that been the habit of people in your country as well? Did anyone attempt self regulation in your country? Was it portrayed as an overwelming evil that was out of control??
That is why they will successfully ban here. Because of so much irresponsibility, so much lack of common sense and whiners and fascists always win at the Statehouse.

Ric
03-06-2009, 11:06 AM
Orgasmic will be affordable to the customers under 5000 ft sq. but for our premium customers with 15.000 sq ft lots and up will be a very hard sell. 20lb 9n 0p 0k CGM per 1000 ft sq = 900LBS or product per ACRE. We need an 18 wheeler and a forklift to travel from job to job. hehe $409 per app per acre for just product cost and a slight reduction in weeds is gonna be tough to sell. Maybe they will be happier when i give them the aerating and overseeding with certified grass seeds cost.

Sarritor is a fungus/mold that attacks only broadleaf plants. A professor at the University of MCGill and his son are marketing it. 4 applications are required i have heard, per season. Under specific conditions (wet) and it is very expensive/hard to get. Only 3 companies are being supplied with this product out of thousands through out Ontario for 2009. It has a short shelf life as like many organic weed control products (nematodes, BJE, predators, etc.....)

If we could bridge there would be a huge price saving along with total control of weeds.
I will miss striping lawns with the Cub Tank. Weeds just dont fold down like a pristine weed free lawn.


HayBay

To quote the infamous Lawrence Stone (who BTW called me this morning). "I hope you have a 5 ton truck and a fork lift to handle your organics"

99% of my accounts are 5,000 sg ft. or under. I top dress them with orgasmic material twice a year and sub the job out to guy with that 5 ton truck. This is done in early spring dry season as in now, to help with field capacity or water holding and again at the end of rainy season. Because my soil is sandy and high pH, the orgasmic material also helps lower pH and add chemical holding power(CEC). As a result I get more bang for my buck in both water and chemical response. But my yards would look horrible if I didn't use synthetics.

Even at my age I am open to change in the industry. Those who don't progress fall behind, and fortified Orgasmic do have a place. Unfortunately the cost of orgasmics compared to synthetics plays a big part in our economy today. At one time I was the highest priced guy in town, but I have not raised prices in two years. I have increased my customer because my price is more competitive. There may be a need for an all orgasmic program, BUT IS THERE A ENOUGH DEMAND AT THAT HIGHER PRICE???

dishboy
03-06-2009, 11:17 AM
HayBay

Good question. I can still log off and read the orgasmic forum as a visitor, but I don't very often. I actually believe in value of orgasmics in conjunction with synthetics. I use less synthetics by using orgasmics and isn't that what the tree huggers are looking for? I will not bad mouth a bridge product program if the Tree Huggers don't bad mouth it. Gaining a little ground is better than not gaining any ground. People don't except radical change but rather a evolution of change. Seems the Orgasmic forum can't except that fact.

I would say that some in the "ORGASMIC"forum can't accept that "fact" and the rest are not talking when they break the CODE.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-06-2009, 11:23 AM
how is stone ric
is he comming down to camp in your yard

Kiril
03-06-2009, 11:31 AM
I would say that some in the "ORGASMIC"forum can't accept that "fact" and the rest are not talking when they break the CODE.

And I would say the vast majority of people that participate in the "orgasmic" forum have no problems with using a bridge "program", including myself as stated on numerous occasions.

Gotta love it when people get up on their high horse and talk about "common" sense, then turn around and spew politically based garbage and buy into the party line or corporate propaganda machine regardless if it makes any sense at all.

Ric
03-06-2009, 05:51 PM
how is stone ric
is he comming down to camp in your yard

Dusty

Stone is a live and doing well. He has not been down to camp on my front yard since the hurricane in 2004. However cold winters up in Penna mountain country had him talking about moving south year round. He did a lot of market research in a areas just north of me and found some great numbers. He even found a buyer for his equipment and accounts. But then reality of Florida's summer humidity set in and Stone is a polar bear who doesn't like heat the way I do. Too bad because Stone has some fantastic marketing ideas even if he is a little lazy. I showed him my numbers and the hours I work. But he decided even working mornings was too hot for him. He still reads here, so I am sure he might see this.

HayBay
03-06-2009, 11:44 PM
Smallaxe,

Premier Dalton McGinty promised a ban in his election campaign.
Gideon Forman (self Procalimed Doctor not a real one from my understanding) Director of Ontario College of Family Physicians and Jean Kottam Dr. of Russian Literature
Bombarded the media with information that is being construed as false and were instrumental in the overwhelming concern of the links to cancer/lymphomic diseases associated with the use of cosmetic pesticides. Even though our own government HEALTH CANADA in 2008 (same as EPA) has found 24d to be safe for pregnant women and children if the label directions are followed when using.

OH About Crabgrass. I prefer to apply after crabgrass that has germinated and growing upto 4 tillers. Just like the Bottle of Acclaim suggests on its label. The permagreen doesn't work well with dimension pre m's for me. So basically Spot Spraying is occuring instead of blanket apps. This stuff is expensive here.

HayBay
03-06-2009, 11:52 PM
Ric,

Hows Casey or Fairway , I forgot his name. The walkbehind down the stairs story. Or the walkbehind with the key left in it and the clients kid drove it through the fence. lol.....
Dusty must remember his name too.

Smallaxe
03-07-2009, 06:58 AM
Smallaxe,

Premier Dalton McGinty promised a ban in his election campaign.
Gideon Forman (self Procalimed Doctor not a real one from my understanding) Director of Ontario College of Family Physicians and Jean Kottam Dr. of Russian Literature
Bombarded the media with information that is being construed as false and were instrumental in the overwhelming concern of the links to cancer/lymphomic diseases associated with the use of cosmetic pesticides. Even though our own government HEALTH CANADA in 2008 (same as EPA) has found 24d to be safe for pregnant women and children if the label directions are followed when using.

OH About Crabgrass. I prefer to apply after crabgrass that has germinated and growing upto 4 tillers. Just like the Bottle of Acclaim suggests on its label. The permagreen doesn't work well with dimension pre m's for me. So basically Spot Spraying is occuring instead of blanket apps. This stuff is expensive here.

Those scare tactics work when normal people who are not fanatics about lawns, gardens, or fields, see the irresponsible activity of TGCL and company.

Also those who haven't a clue about farming and its related facets.
Some woman "Doctor" in Chicago blamed the 'dust' from farm fields miles and miles away for giving children asthma. The Windy City has more trash and dirt laying everywhere without considering the smog that never blows away.

We need a 'University Study to see how much glyphosate and N,P,K is airborn from Illinios cornfield to Chicago. :laugh: And take away that broad's corn bread and corn flakes. :laugh:

Ric
03-07-2009, 10:43 AM
Ric,

Hows Casey or Fairway , I forgot his name. The walkbehind down the stairs story. Or the walkbehind with the key left in it and the clients kid drove it through the fence. lol.....
Dusty must remember his name too.

HayBay

AH yes Calvin was his first screen name here and LS finally locked his famous mower down the steps thread so it can't be bumped any more. I got his License plate number off a picture he posted in an other forum and ran it. I know his real name and location in Canada. But to my knowledge he is no longer trolling on green industry forums after being ban many times under different screen names.

I stay in touch with several knowledgeable members who have moved on and no longer even read here. I guess I am one of a few old members still posting in the pesticide forum. I have made some very good connections over the years here on LS that have been valuable to me. At the same time I have seen a lot of fools.