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View Full Version : New Hunter PGP Ultra ???


JimLewis
02-27-2009, 03:22 PM
Just got this email. You guys heard of this???

Not that I care too much about Hunter stuff. I am a RB guy. But I thought I'd just start a conversation about these heads see what you all thought about their new "upgrade".

Here is the text of the email I got:
---------------------------------

I am happy to announce that Hunter has accomplished an almost impossible task, we made the reliable, time-proven PGP better! While doing so we have incorporated several features that have been requested by many of our customers for the past few years.

This new PGP Ultra has the following improvements which were recently introduced in the I-35, then even more recently in the I-25 Ultra and I-40 Ultra, all of which have proven very popular! The new PGP Ultra will have the following features, listed from top to bottom:

NEW! Thicker, safer rubber cover. The bump over the screw is gone. More like the I-20 style, completely flat on top.

NEW! Headed and slotted nozzle retainer screw, so either a Hunter wrench or screwdriver may be used.

NEW! Eight, square-topped BLUE nozzles with four LA nozzles, same as the PGP and I-20 BLUE nozzles.

NEW! Fully adjustable from 50-360 degrees. When adjusted to 360, continuous counter-clockwise rotation.

NEW! Non-strippable drive mechanism with Auto-Arc return, same as the I-25, I-35, I-40, prevents damage when the turret is turned by vandals.

NEW! Improved dirty-water tolerance on the internal gear drive, same type as all I-Series, better for harsh water environments.

NEW! Innovative, exciting packaging. The PGP-04 heads will be in a 6-pack style box with nozzles.

NEW! Three-year warranty, a little added bonus, which most likely will never be needed.


PGP ULTRA Line

I realize youre now asking, Whats the price of this new PGP Ultra?, How do I order my PGP Ultras? and, So what is going to happen with the PGP? Heres the plan:

The list price of the PGP-04 Ultra is $21.95. Its our plan to sell-up from the base PGP-ADJ to the PGP Ultra. In 2009 you can get a sprinkler that has far more features than before at the same price as 2008! Now that we have this Ultra, selling PGPs will once again be fun! To place your order, simply order PGP-04. Easy and pain free!

The PGP-ADJ will still continue to be produced, along with a limited number of ADJ models with pre-installed nozzle models. Our goal is to eliminate all models of the current PGP except for the basic PGP-ADJ and PGP-ADJ-B. All full circles, check valve and reclaimed ID models will be the new Ultra once stock of the current models is depleted.

Please take a look at the attached PGP Ultra brochure. As always, please feel free to contact me with your questions. I look forward to sharing success PGP Ultra stories with you! Thank you.

Click to download the PGP Ultra brochure

Thanks,
Steve Hoveln
Product Manager - Rotors
760-591-7329

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hoskm01
02-27-2009, 03:45 PM
The list price seems steep.

Wet_Boots
02-27-2009, 04:25 PM
6-pack box = Stupid

TRILAWNCARE
02-27-2009, 04:29 PM
Just got this email. You guys heard of this???



There is a different thread already started talking about the new head.....

New Hunter Rotor Head (http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=262034)

WalkGood
02-27-2009, 04:30 PM
The list price seems steep.

Anyone have a "street price" yet?


Six-pack is indeed weird..... why not just a ten-pack or even dozen?

Or a bakers-dozen with a bread recipe? Or better yet, you get an ACTUAL loaf of mini-bread like from Outback.

JimLewis
02-27-2009, 04:59 PM
Anyone have a "street price" yet?

Well street price is going to depend on what your individual discount rate is for Hunter products. And that depends on your relationship and volume with your supply house mostly. I think we get 50% off list price for Hunter stuff.

WalkGood
02-27-2009, 05:15 PM
Well street price is going to depend on what your individual discount rate is for Hunter products. And that depends on your relationship and volume with your supply house mostly. I think we get 50% off list price for Hunter stuff.

So that's a "no"?

I don't look at "list price", don't even know what it is for other heads. I look at what I actually pay. So if a case of PGP's work out to $8 or $9 a head, I'll compare that to what I get charged for this new PGP Ultra.

JimLewis
02-27-2009, 05:27 PM
Ok. But the price you pay is based on list price. You may not realize that or have ever discussed list price. But that's what your distributor is basing your rates on. They're all based on a certain % of list price.

So at our 50% discount from list, I'd pay just under $11.00 for that head. I don't know what everyone else here would pay. But that's our rate.

irritation
02-27-2009, 05:35 PM
You should be getting a better price for heads. I only do service and get a better discount than that.

JimLewis
02-27-2009, 05:48 PM
If I ever used any Hunter heads I probably would get a better discount than that. But since we buy maybe 20 a year, I don't think they're going to work with us much. I get the same discount rate on Hunter that a lot of companies in my area get who do some pretty serious volume with them get.

I get a better deal from RB of course, since I am a RB select contractor and that's what we install 99.99% of the time. So obviously you get a better deal on what you use.

But it's also a regional thing. In the Northwest, Hunter is pretty dominant. They don't have to offer very big discounts to the contractor because they have a stronghold. They don't really care as much if they lose a contractor or two here and there. They can afford to. And same with the supply houses.

But in some areas where irrigation isn't as big of a market and supply houses and Hunter need every last customer they can get, of course the discount rates are going to be more competitive in those areas.

It's all supply and demand. But I have close friends who work at several supply houses in town and our irrigation tech. used to work for both the Horizon branch and the Ewing branch here in town for a few years at each place. He assures me our discount rate is in line with what they are giving other companies our size.

But again, this is all fairly local too. What someone can get as a discount rate in one part of the country doesn't always equate to what someone else can get in another part. Show me a company in my area who gets a better discount rate on RB or Hunter and is smaller in terms of company size or yearly volume and I'll start to get a little concerned. Pissed off, even. But I don't think there are any.

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-27-2009, 06:31 PM
I'm betting that Dallas is one of the more competitive pricing markets. Huge demand and a lot of suppliers. The supply houses whine that it is major cut throat here.

RICHLONGHORN
02-27-2009, 08:13 PM
Who you calling a whiner Fimco?

bicmudpuppy
02-27-2009, 08:17 PM
We worked on a .4 multiplier when I was in Dallas. Heads still go cheaper than the "normal" discounts, no matter what your preferred brand, etc.

DanaMac
02-28-2009, 09:30 AM
I received the same email. I still don't think it is anything greatly above the original. Now if it had a flow stop, then yes.

More components = more things to fail

bobw
02-28-2009, 11:23 AM
Boy...if all the other new features are as useful as the six pack packaging....:hammerhead:

DanaMac
02-28-2009, 11:29 AM
Boy...if all the other new features are as useful as the six pack packaging....:hammerhead:

I don't understand how they can market that as a feature. Wastes more cardboard, not environmentally friendly.

HokieAg07
02-28-2009, 12:16 PM
I don't understand how they can market that as a feature. Wastes more cardboard, not environmentally friendly.


Not to mention using all that ink to make the box all pretty. When you buy cases of 20 at a time that stupid ass 6 pack isnt going to make any friends.

I will continue to buy the regular old PGP ADJ for $7.50.

FIMCO-MEISTER
02-28-2009, 08:07 PM
Who you calling a whiner Fimco?

Not you Rich....All the others:) I have stories for our next lunch get together.

hoskm01
02-28-2009, 10:12 PM
Who you calling a whiner Fimco?
And you are?

Mike Leary
02-28-2009, 10:29 PM
Show me a company in my area who gets a better discount rate on RB or Hunter and is smaller in terms of company size or yearly volume and I'll start to get a little concerned.

My deal with H.D Fowler and United and Horizon was always the same: they wanted my business, I wanted percentages and prompt service. Two of them were players, the other could give a rip 'cause they were bigger.

sprinklerchris
03-01-2009, 08:51 PM
The Hunter rep told me these are $1.00 more my-cost than the regular PGP, which is already too expensive.

I will continue to buy the K-Rain PGP for $6.50 and the RB 5004 for $6.00.

hoskm01
03-01-2009, 09:06 PM
The Hunter rep told me these are $1.00 more my-cost than the regular PGP, which is already too expensive.

I will continue to buy the K-Rain PGP for $6.50 and the RB 5004 for $6.00.
At those rates, why would you even look at Krain?

mitchgo
03-01-2009, 09:11 PM
The Hunter rep told me these are $1.00 more my-cost than the regular PGP, which is already too expensive.

I will continue to buy the K-Rain PGP for $6.50 and the RB 5004 for $6.00.

Man...

Don't you think there is a reason why all other heads are more expensive then those two??

sprinklerchris
03-01-2009, 09:25 PM
At those rates, why would you even look at Krain?

Our distributor wants $7.50 for PGP and $8.50 for PGP Ultra.

The K-Rain works, acts, lasts and adjusts EXACTLY like PGP. We've been on them for over 18 months and haven't had a lick of trouble. Why pay more?

The RB 5004 is the best deal going on a rotor, as we can often get incentives like Cabelas certificates that make them even cheaper.

sprinklerchris
03-01-2009, 09:32 PM
Man...

Don't you think there is a reason why all other heads are more expensive then those two??

People on this forum seem to believe strongly in brands and have loyalties based upon what name appears on a product.

I read today that the Saturn Aura was scored 3.8 out of 4 when shown without a nameplate, 2 out of 4 when shown with the Saturn nameplate. I guess people don't like the Saturn brand either. But many say its a great car that should be kicking Honda's butt.

If I find equal quality that works well for us and our customers for a lower price, I do what's right for me and my wallet.

In times like these, I'm surprised more people wouldn't be investigating what's out there.

hoskm01
03-01-2009, 09:42 PM
People on this forum seem to believe strongly in brands and have loyalties based upon what name appears on a product.

I read today that the Saturn Aura was scored 3.8 out of 4 when shown without a nameplate, 2 out of 4 when shown with the Saturn nameplate. I guess people don't like the Saturn brand either. But many say its a great car that should be kicking Honda's butt.

If I find equal quality that works well for us and our customers for a lower price, I do what's right for me and my wallet.

In times like these, I'm surprised more people wouldn't be investigating what's out there.
I dont buy cheap, I buy quality... For reasonable price of course, but none of those three are unaffordable.

Krains reputation and quality are still questionable, given their age. RB and Hunter come to brand preference, in my book. You like yours, I like mine, whats wrong with that. You think one is better, I dont... Maybe I get a better deal on mine while you get better on the other.

As far as cars go...

I just bought the wife a new sedan this past weekend. Saturn is not comparable as far as quality, feel, or so on. I drove just about everything out there that wasnt "luxury" in the small sedan class. I didnt buy the cheapest, and oddly enough, I didnt buy top brand preference either.

Mike Leary
03-01-2009, 11:06 PM
People on this forum seem to believe strongly in brands and have loyalties based upon what name appears on a product.

Nope, I don't give a rip who makes it or what kind of tee shirt/hat I get. My bottom line has always been performance, longevity and factory support. Price is a distant fourth. :hammerhead:

sprinklerchris
03-02-2009, 07:41 AM
Nope, I don't give a rip who makes it or what kind of tee shirt/hat I get. My bottom line has always been performance, longevity and factory support. Price is a distant fourth.

Me too! :)

DanaMac
03-02-2009, 08:23 AM
The K-Rain works, acts, lasts and adjusts EXACTLY like PGP. We've been on them for over 18 months and haven't had a lick of trouble. Why pay more?


How can you say it LASTS longer than the PGP?Hasn't even come close to being out there long enough to know.

Sprinkus
03-02-2009, 08:37 AM
People on this forum seem to believe strongly in brands and have loyalties based upon what name appears on a product.


My loyalties are based on my experiences in the repair business over the last 24 years, and my experiences with K-Rain have not been good.

Waterit
03-02-2009, 10:16 AM
K-Rain ProPlus or K2 = a service or warranty call.

PGP's seem to last forever - so why is Hunter screwing around with them? Kinda like when Chevy ditched the 350 and went to that Vortec POS.

5000's have a shorter track record than PGP's, but I've only had 3 go bad out of hundreds installed. My head of choice.

Wet_Boots
03-02-2009, 10:36 AM
Stream rotors still outlast the PGP - too bad Toro stopped including oil in the gearcase.

Mike Leary
03-02-2009, 10:56 AM
Stream rotors still outlast the PGP - too bad Toro stopped including oil in the gearcase.

Those were the days. :clapping:

DanaMac
03-02-2009, 11:01 AM
Mike and Bootsie - did you guys ever use impacts back in the day? Just curious. Lots of homeowner installed systems here have them. Maxi and Mini Paws. And some piker contractor systems.

I know Grand Junction, CO uses them a lot still. But it is due to having dirty water. I had one system 3 years ago where I changed out over 20 rotors that were not rotating or barely peeing out due to being clogged with debris/rust/sediment from the well. System had no filter at all.

Wet_Boots
03-02-2009, 11:23 AM
Until the house sold, and the new homeowner took over the servicing, my original install of Minipaws (free samples from Rainbird) had over twenty years of trouble-free operation.

Absent problems with debris and grass intrusion, the Rainbird impacts are quite reliable.

Mike Leary
03-02-2009, 11:26 AM
did you guys ever use impacts back in the day?

Not many, even turf was spray zoned. Used impacts for large plantings on butt-ugly risers. The only thing I liked about them is they would pass dirty water and operate on next-to-no pressure. Sure thought I'd died and gone to irrigation heaven when gear-drives came out!

Wet_Boots
03-02-2009, 11:34 AM
Gear drives go back to the 1930's, but adjustable gear drives didn't show up until years later.

Mike Leary
03-02-2009, 11:40 AM
Gear drives go back to the 1930's, but adjustable gear drives didn't show up until years later.

I believe the first adjustable g.d. I installed was a Stream-Rotor; still my all-time favorite rotor. :clapping:

Wet_Boots
03-02-2009, 11:59 AM
Ever see the Toro 600 imitation of the Thompson rotor? Same kind of case, but in brass, and minus the flat-top flange, and the central riser had three separate nozzles, side-by-side, like the Thompson for distance, close-in, and in-between coverage. Gear drive was the same as a 600. (that's the old 602 and 604 ~ pre Super600)

Mike Leary
03-02-2009, 12:20 PM
The Pacific Northwest was W*M land, the school district had all impact cans.

Wet_Boots
03-02-2009, 12:26 PM
Any of the other W*M rotors? They had a Thompson imitation, with fixed arcs. Or maybe the midget 040 rotor?

DanaMac
03-02-2009, 12:37 PM
Any of the other W*M rotors? They had a Thompson imitation, with fixed arcs. Or maybe the midget 040 rotor?

I have two homes with WM rotors and I DO NOT like them. Don't know the model. Don't want to know. Any sign of problems with one and I yank em all out.

AI Inc
03-02-2009, 12:38 PM
Most systems like that and Ill replace 5-6 every spring.

Mike Leary
03-02-2009, 12:50 PM
I have two homes with WM rotors and I DO NOT like them. Don't know the model. Don't want to know. Any sign of problems with one and I yank em all out.

The plastic "Turbo" rotor was and still is, a piece of junk.

DanaMac
03-02-2009, 12:52 PM
The plastic "Turbo" rotor was and still is, a piece of junk.

That could be it. I can't even remember how to adjust it. Doesn't it have it's own key?

AI Inc
03-02-2009, 12:53 PM
About 10 yrs ago I did a job with the irritrol rep. He got me the job, gave us the heads for free and we did the install. I hated those things, but looking back I have only replaced 3-4 out of around 45 in these ten yrs. Still hate em , sounds like they are breaking when you adjust them .
As far as WM , never tok much of a liking to them either.

AI Inc
03-02-2009, 12:53 PM
That could be it. I can't even remember how to adjust it. Doesn't it have it's own key?

Reg screwdriver , isnt it?

Mike Leary
03-02-2009, 12:54 PM
That could be it. I can't even remember how to adjust it. Doesn't it have it's own key?

My psychiatrist helped me forget everything about them. :dizzy:

AI Inc
03-02-2009, 12:55 PM
lets see physcologist no drugs , phchiatrist drugs, or is that the other way around?

DanaMac
03-02-2009, 12:56 PM
About 10 yrs ago I did a job with the irritrol rep. He got me the job, gave us the heads for free and we did the install. I hated those things, but looking back I have only replaced 3-4 out of around 45 in these ten yrs. Still hate em , sounds like they are breaking when you adjust them .
As far as WM , never tok much of a liking to them either.

Were those the XL rotors? I put them in my first house. Free demos as well in '96. Wiper seals were deteriorating FAST. They were replaceable though. And I've replaced many that quit rotating.

AI Inc
03-02-2009, 12:58 PM
Yep, that is what they called them. Dont think I have even seen em at a supply house since.

DanaMac
03-02-2009, 01:01 PM
Yep, that is what they called them. Dont think I have even seen em at a supply house since.

I also put them in at my friends house at the same time. I think 1/2 to 2/3 are now PGPs. The others might not work as well, but he doesn't run the back yard anymore due to water restrictions, dogs, kids, etc

JimLewis
03-02-2009, 08:36 PM
So I know you all haven't tried these rotors yet. But it sounds like you're all not too excited about them. Are you saying this is like the "new" coke that Coca-Cola came out with in the 80s with the "new" formula? Everyone already loved the old Coke so much that they just didn't want anyone messing with it? Is that the consensus here?

DanaMac
03-02-2009, 08:44 PM
So I know you all haven't tried these rotors yet. But it sounds like you're all not too excited about them. Are you saying this is like the "new" coke that Coca-Cola came out with in the 80s with the "new" formula? Everyone already loved the old Coke so much that they just didn't want anyone messing with it? Is that the consensus here?

Yeah. That's kind of it. These new "features" don't make it that much better of a rotor head. Now if it had the flow stop, I would back it. Just like if New Coke added some "coke" or maybe some viagra, it might have stuck around. But just changing the flavor was lame.

AI Inc
03-03-2009, 11:35 AM
Because of competition from RB 5000 and Krain knock off , they felt they had to do something. In reality there was nothing that needed to be changed .
Kinda like looking for something to change on Eva Mendez.

Wet_Boots
03-03-2009, 11:59 AM
Used to be, you could get a stainless-steel PGP, but they now reserve that for the I-20. Outside of mandatory (new sod) daytime operation near high foot traffic, and possible vandalism, I don't see the advantage of the new version. If the gear drive turns out to be less reliable, because of the added non-strippable feature, then the product is a fail.

WalkGood
03-03-2009, 04:34 PM
Kinda like looking for something to change on Eva Mendez.

You could change places with the guy currently "on" her... :dizzy::laugh:

AI Inc
03-04-2009, 02:27 PM
Saw it at a show today. It dosnt take pgp blue nozzles , it takes I 20 nozzles. One of the reasons for it is they felt they needed to stand out again as Irritrol has now released a pgp knockoff.

Mike Leary
03-04-2009, 02:35 PM
it takes I 20 nozzles.

I like I-20 nozzles.

AI Inc
03-04-2009, 03:34 PM
I like the larger variety of pgp nozzles, although I dont think I have ever used a #1

Mike Leary
03-04-2009, 03:39 PM
I like the larger variety of pgp nozzles, although I dont think I have ever used a #1

If you have to, you've screwed-up the design.:hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
03-04-2009, 03:45 PM
I've made occasional use of the #1 nozzles, but it has to be small water on heavy soil to justify light watering, even for a corner head ~ or some tiny area more fit for a spray, in a system with no spray zones to cover it.