4-speed herbicide

[pieperlc]

Anyone used fourspeed herbicide. I was just checking some other suppliers the other day and he suggested it vs. speedzone. It's about $25 cheaper per 2.5 gal. It's 3-way plus octane made by nufarm. I know I could make these two formulations myself, but I like to keep things simple for me and my applicators. Just looking for someone with experience.

[rcreech]

Anyone used fourspeed herbicide. I was just checking some other suppliers the other day and he suggested it vs. speedzone. It's about $25 cheaper per 2.5 gal. It's 3-way plus octane made by nufarm. I know I could make these two formulations myself, but I like to keep things simple for me and my applicators. Just looking for someone with experience.

Was just at a meeting on Friday and a fella from NuFarm was there to put on a presentation.

In his presentation he discussed 4-Speed (containing Octane) and said that Ocatane and Quick Silver work the same!

I think a lot of this guy...but afterwords I talked to him and told him that "THEY DO NOT WORK THE SAME"!

If you are looking for a product to get hard to control weeds stick with Quick Silver or any product containing Carfentrazone.

Look at the cost/K! Because for another couple bucks an acre I would stick with the SpeedZone if it were me!

That is just my take!!!!

[grassman177]

we tryed an offshoot generic that was even made by Pbi gordon and it sucked. i go name brand every time. i have never found an off brand that ever lived up to the original. but if money is your main concern then by all means. it will kill something i am sure, just not everything.

[rcreech]

we tryed an offshoot generic that was even made by Pbi gordon and it sucked. i go name brand every time. i have never found an off brand that ever lived up to the original. but if money is your main concern then by all means. it will kill something i am sure, just not everything.

I dont' know!

As long as you are comparing AI to AI...it shouldn't matter if it is a generic or not!

I ALWAYS use a generic if I can!

AI is AI to me!!!!!

[grassman177]

true, and i have been both ways. ai to ai and it still did not kill the same. it was formulated differently. now this was before low volume we do now with the zsprays. it was 2gal per K in a tank.

it was not horrible, but i did notice better results then with the name brand. now we tried a diferent three way of 24d dicamba and carfentrazone. it was made by PBI Gordon too but for helena chemical. it really was a poor ratio of three way. it sucked which surprised me alot. we only used it half a round and went right back to brand name. in contrast i have not a problem with generic dry products to date. i only have one manufacturer i stay away from and that is Howard Johnsons. the formulations i have every got from them were always very dusty and clogged all spreaders much easier. tahn anything else. especially in humidity

[Think Green]

In comparison to apples and oranges, 3 years ago, we used Glyphos-extra, the year after we used another off brand. Mixing them at the same rate per gallon, we could definately tell a difference in the kill ratio. The off market killers are lacking a free radical or something that blends the chemicals. It took longer to kill a weed that the high dollar stuff killed.
This is our opinion and is based on our facts.!!

[grassman177]

exactly the point thnk green. they may work, just not as good as far as i have seen

[JDUtah]

AI is one thing, delivery of the AI is another...

[rcreech]

In comparison to apples and oranges, 3 years ago, we used Glyphos-extra, the year after we used another off brand. Mixing them at the same rate per gallon, we could definately tell a difference in the kill ratio. The off market killers are lacking a free radical or something that blends the chemicals. It took longer to kill a weed that the high dollar stuff killed.
This is our opinion and is based on our facts.!!


Couple questions!
Were you compaing the same % of AI?

Could one of had more surfactant then the other?

You are also comparing two different years! That is not even close to a comparison!

Some years I get better control then others with the SAME herbicide and it is usually weather related or conditions etc. How can you compare TWO different products on DIFFERENENT years?

I have not bought a gallon of ROUNDUP BRAND in four of five years as all I use (and sell) in genenric gly. Not had any trouble on my 400 acres anway.

You may want to take a closer look and make sure you are comparing apples apples and do it in the SAME YEAR (preferably the same day if you are comparing them)!

[grassman177]

i know i am rodney. the same everyting but how formulated(looked dif) same % ai and same year, cant vouch for others but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[tremor]

we tryed an offshoot generic that was even made by Pbi gordon and it sucked. i go name brand every time. i have never found an off brand that ever lived up to the original. but if money is your main concern then by all means. it will kill something i am sure, just not everything.

Nufarm is a bramd name. They are the largest basic herbicide manufacturer & probably make a lot of what you use now.

Ever heard of Lesco?

[grassman177]

i do not like lesco or their products. i use helena and like their stuff. and the prices the weed control is all made by PBI Gordon for me. never used nufarm that i know of. at least in a very long time

[rcreech]

Lesco is about all I have ever used..and I never had a problem!

No offense Grassman...but I can't figure out why anyone would have trouble getting control with generics!

IT IS THE SAME STUFF!

I take generic aspirin, I eat generic cereal, and about anything else that is generic...and there is very little difference. Heck...most of the time the generics are packaged at the same place as the "name brands".

I have always used generic chemcals (both insecticides and herbicides) with NO trouble at all.

I am not sure why that would be happening!

AI is AI and and if the same...it shouldn't really matter!

Could you call your supplier and find out why?

I wholesale chems (ag only) on the side and I will contact my supplier and see if he has any ideas!

[pieperlc]

Thanks for the input guys. On the subject of generics, a couple of salesman have told me that Trimec 992 and Vessel by Prokoz are the exact same thing. They come off the same line and get different labels. Can't speak for everything, but I think generics will work the same provided you're comparing ai to ai.

[DUSTYCEDAR]

THE SURFACTANTS THAT R ADDED R THE KEY
you have to be sure that you know whats in the mix

[grassman177]

probably what dusty said. those are hidden if you will. but some products are the same and some are not. generic glyphosate seems to be relatively the same but jsut had bad luck with post broadleaf control. 1 example is we had old 992 one time that did better than the equiv of a uap product called mec amine d or something. just performed better. we tired them side by side, bad batch????? maybe could be, but it has happened several time's over the years as i tried something new like that. i could care less you know, i just demand results and was disapointed in most generics and they did not really save that much in the end if i had call backs or retreats. but what works for one does not for all. we are in different areas although similar. wh knows, i am not arguing of course, jsut experience i have had in the past.

[tremor]

i do not like lesco or their products. i use helena and like their stuff. and the prices the weed control is all made by PBI Gordon for me. never used nufarm that i know of. at least in a very long time

Helena uses Nufarm too. Battleship among others.

Bottom line. EVEYONE who uses herbicides has used Nufarm or Goron's whether the knew it or not.

Most herbicide efficacy problems can be traced back to timing/judgement.

[foreplease]

I agree with rcreech and tremor. Differences in weather from year to year and where the target weed is developmentally together with the underlying health of the host turf is a more likely explanation. Plus - we've all done it - some applications we make are better than others: coverage, rate, timing.

[Think Green]

rc,
Sorry, I haven't posted in response yet, we have been at it hard.
I totally agree scientifically when you are comparing apples to apples, you need a test plot that is completely environmentally controlled. Then you need a control speciman and two other test subjects and so-on....
It is difficult to obtain this in the field and cannot test as lets say Dupont does or anyone else. Yes, we have used the same product called "Cornerstone Plus", which is supplied by our farm co-ops. The product appears to have the same AI and the same amount of surfactant according to the label but how true is that! I am very much a sceptic when it comes to the integrity of American products sometimes. Murphy once said--" The lowest bidder makes the weapons in this country, he made yours! "--Murphy was a grunt!-not word for word! Anyway, relative humidity--temperature--wind--sun or shade--ground moisture--turger (sp.) pressure and all other minor and major factors play a role in weed control success. We generally start spraying weeds in beds and cracks-fencerows in late April through August, and with Cornerstone in mind, it did kill slower than a previously used product the year before called Glyphos "Extra". It was the same AI, surfactant %, everything looked the same on the label. Buy the visible leaf curl was not the same.
I do agree on your intensive remark of control compared to apples and not apples to oranges.........

Thanks for you response.

[grassman177]

wow, brought up again, well, we did switch back to speedzone in the same round as the off brand and it was noticably better. no questions about it. i just prefer to not get any call backs, and never do except when i used the offbrand.