Cat 257B vs. Bobcat T190

[Nelson M Martin]

To who it may concern. What are the opinions on performance between these two machines?
Such as pushing capacity or power to the ground and lifting etc.:confused:

[Gravel Rat]

One of the contractors in my area has a 257 it does really good I was watching the operator operate it and its smooth no jumping around kinda mezmarizing :laugh:

[ksss]

You can see a comparison at

Casece.com go to compact track loader, click on compare, go 445CT to see the T-190 specs. Go to 420CT to see the 257B2 specs.


Neither of these two machines are impressive. There have been threads on this before.

[mrsops]

To who it may concern. What are the opinions on performance between these two machines?
Such as pushing capacity or power to the ground and lifting etc.:confused:

I wouldn't go any where near a 257, I know numerous contractors that all dumped that machine because its a gutless wonder.. There all in t190's now and are happy with them. There was something i found on you tube a few weeks back and i dont know where the hell it went maybe it was taken off but it had a bobcat t190, deere ct322, cat 257, and a takuchi i dont even remember the model number but it was compared to the rest of these machines.. It showed each of these machines pushing dirt on flat ground on seeing how far they can go before the machine stoped... I'm sure it was something to do with deere.

ct322 i believe pushed like 58 feet
tackuchi pushed 48 feet
bobcat pushed 45 feet
cat pushed i think it was only 33-35 feet

[Scag48]

Both are less than desireable when it really comes down to it. The 257/257B is an absolute dog, however I ran a 257BII and it was a little better. I still feel the 257BII platform needed improvements when it came to the undercarriage packing the upperstructure around.

[SellingIron]

The question is a cat 257 vs. T190... ( not crap I mean case))


I have had customers demo both. The cat 257 is under powered. It's a nice machine but there is no comparison to a bobcat T190. The T190 has plenty of power for its size. The SJC ( Joysticks on the bobcat are ?) they are better but something else to go wrong.....If you can run a hand and foot controlled T190.. Hands down you have more control of your machines movement and power..

[Junior M]

The question is a cat 257 vs. T190... ( not crap I mean case))


I have had customers demo both. The cat 257 is under powered. It's a nice machine but there is no comparison to a bobcat T190. The T190 has plenty of power for its size. The SJC ( Joysticks on the bobcat are ?) they are better but something else to go wrong.....If you can run a hand and foot controlled T190.. Hands down you have more control of your machines movement and power..
Everybody seems to just leave the ACS controls out, I think I'd much rather go that route because of the SJC troubles.. Whats the deal with ACS controls? does no one use them? Do they have the same problems as the SJC's?

[Nelson M Martin]

my phone video has witnessed one of the demonstrations!:canadaflag:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28lCnaq6EOI

[Nelson M Martin]

also have a video after we have played with injection fuel pump..(more fuel now)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDqo4FJYz7o

[mrsops]

The question is a cat 257 vs. T190... ( not crap I mean case))


I have had customers demo both. The cat 257 is under powered. It's a nice machine but there is no comparison to a bobcat T190. The T190 has plenty of power for its size. The SJC ( Joysticks on the bobcat are ?) they are better but something else to go wrong.....If you can run a hand and foot controlled T190.. Hands down you have more control of your machines movement and power..

Selling iron you couldn't have said it any better. That's what i been telling these guys on this site.. I feel i have plenty of control and power in my t190 being able to operate it with hand and foot controls.. The t190 will bury the cat 257 in a heartbeat..

[Digdeep]

I think that both machines are underpowered considering that they are approaching 8000lbs.

[ksss]

The question is a cat 257 vs. T190... ( not crap I mean case))


I have had customers demo both. The cat 257 is under powered. It's a nice machine but there is no comparison to a bobcat T190. The T190 has plenty of power for its size. The SJC ( Joysticks on the bobcat are ?) they are better but something else to go wrong.....If you can run a hand and foot controlled T190.. Hands down you have more control of your machines movement and power..



The purpose of the link was to see the specs of each machine, other than a CASE website it had nothing to do with CASE. Both in engine horse power and breakout, the 190 is dog no matter how you compare it. If you need it to move landscape items and mulch with or something like Mrsops does, it would be just fine, just like the 257. I tried to use them to get some work out of and the are not up to the task, but hey we have done this numerous times already.

[mrsops]

The purpose of the link was to see the specs of each machine, other than a CASE website it had nothing to do with CASE. Both in engine horse power and breakout, the 190 is dog no matter how you compare it. If you need it to move landscape items and mulch with or something like Mrsops does, it would be just fine, just like the 257. I tried to use them to get some work out of and the are not up to the task, but hey we have done this numerous times already.

Ksss i think you forget that im in the rental bussiness i wish i moved mulch around all day :hammerhead:..

[Scag48]

I was pretty much under the impression you were a landscape/light excavation contractor? I guess I'm confused.

[mrsops]

I was pretty much under the impression you were a landscape/light excavation contractor? I guess I'm confused.

What do you consider light excavation??

[Scag48]

Geez man do I have to spell out everything for you now? :laugh: You know, light excavation, any excavation done with a skid steer/mini ex, like driveway grading, new addition excavation, retaining walls, home uilities, etc..

[sunray]

Selling iron you couldn't have said it any better. That's what i been telling these guys on this site.. I feel i have plenty of control and power in my t190 being able to operate it with hand and foot controls.. The t190 will bury the cat 257 in a heartbeat..

I bought my t-190 with hand and foot controls and love them, I've never ran one with joy sticks but did know those would not be a cheap fix when the time came.
the only regret with the t-190 is arm size, sometimes I would feel a lot better with heavier arms when I'm working it hard.

[ksss]

What do you consider light excavation??


I think when your primary excavator is a mini excavator. Your a light excavator.

[mrsops]

Geez man do I have to spell out everything for you now? :laugh: You know, light excavation, any excavation done with a skid steer/mini ex, like driveway grading, new addition excavation, retaining walls, home uilities, etc..

I do a lot of work for builders i cant tell you how many foundations we backfilled and how many driveways and curbs i dug last year.. But we do everything from digging pools to even demo jobs..

[mrsops]

I think when your primary excavator is a mini excavator. Your a light excavator.

You should see what i can do with my 305 :weightlifter:

[ksss]

You should see what i can do with my 305 :weightlifter:

As have I. I have dug a 2500 home, on the side of a mountain with 14' high foundation walls on one side. As well as numerous additions and large demos, all with a mini. I have done a lot with a mini ex. There is no shame in being a light excavator, I am proud of it. I will say though that I think your idea of large dirt moving projects and ours out here is much different.

[Tigerotor77W]

also have a video after we have played with injection fuel pump..(more fuel now)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDqo4FJYz7o

What do these show -- it's hard to see if the operator of the T190 is backing off the joysticks when the 257B pushes it around the lot.

Also -- the 257 used is a 257B; the new 257B2s have about, what, 10% more drawbar pull? I don't know how that translates into real action.

[mrsops]

As have I. I have dug a 2500 home, on the side of a mountain with 14' high foundation walls on one side. As well as numerous additions and large demos, all with a mini. I have done a lot with a mini ex. There is no shame in being a light excavator, I am proud of it. I will say though that I think your idea of large dirt moving projects and ours out here is much different.

Im proud of it to!!!

[AWJ Services]

First we do not no how to tow because we do not drive 10 wheelers and now we are "Light Excavators".
I feel suicidal.

[Junior M]

You should see what i can do with my 305 :weightlifter:
Its only a CAT, how much are you really goin to do with it before it falls to pieces? :laugh:

[Nelson M Martin]

What do these show -- it's hard to see if the operator of the T190 is backing off the joysticks when the 257B pushes it around the lot.

yes the operator on T190 is easing off the joysticks and reversing most times when its being push backwards

I was not there to see it anymore,but the same machines in snow were something different. The Cat had the advantage over the Bobcat for tractive effort

[BOB&ME]

Hey Ronnie,,,,,Where are u,,u sleeping in or just lost?:sleeping:

[bobcat_ron]

Put a 257B2 on the battle, the old B in that vid has no planetaries, that's the 10% increase in the tractive effort.

I will gladly put my 247B2 up against anyone here in town who thinks their Bobcat T180/190 has balls.

[ksss]

Put a 257B2 on the battle, the old B in that vid has no planetaries, that's the 10% increase in the tractive effort.

I will gladly put my 247B2 up against anyone here in town who thinks their Bobcat T180/190 has balls.


I think that would be the equivelent of watching the slow tractor races at the county fair, maybe the little kid peddle tractor pull on a good day. Which, although mildly entertaining once you've had enough beer, hardly a barn burner. These machines are some of the lowest specing machines in their respective classes.

[Junior M]

I think that would be the equivelent of watching the slow tractor races at the county fair, maybe the little kid peddle tractor pull on a good day. Which, although mildly entertaining once you've had enough beer, hardly a barn burner. These machines are some of the lowest specing machines in their respective classes.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I do have to say though, I think you base a little to much off spec's just cause thats what its spec'd doesnt mean it wont do more than that. Think about your 1ton, even though its a GMC:laugh:, it'll still pull more than what its spec'd at..

[mrsops]

Ksss you would of got got a real kick out of the njlca show I was at in meadowlands New Jersey last week.. Everyone had machines all over the place i go over to the case booth they had 1 machine it was a 410 skid steer :laugh: with about 6 sales guys standing around the machine. I think you need to come over here and help these guys sell some machines. Maybe change there attitude a little they weren't very help full at all.

[ksss]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I do have to say though, I think you base a little to much off spec's just cause thats what its spec'd doesnt mean it wont do more than that. Think about your 1ton, even though its a GMC:laugh:, it'll still pull more than what its spec'd at..


I have run T-190s three different model years, all new machines at the time. They all ran the same. No power, no breakout, excessive feedback in the sticks, loud, went over relief very easily. I could not keep anyone in the machine. I had to run the POS. I had the same problem last year with a S160. Although I refused to run that machine, sometimes you have lay down the boss card. The T-190 I think is viewed the same by many, its not just me.

The specs of a machine are only indicators of potential performance, or lack there of. However it holds very true with the T-190. Its every bit as incompetent as the specs would suggest it is.

[ksss]

Ksss you would of got got a real kick out of the njlca show I was at in meadowlands New Jersey last week.. Everyone had machines all over the place i go over to the case booth they had 1 machine it was a 410 skid steer :laugh: with about 6 sales guys standing around the machine. I think you need to come over here and help these guys sell some machines. Maybe change there attitude a little they weren't very help full at all.

I hate hearing that. CASE has a great product, but if the salesman, who are where the rubber meets the road, don't sell the product it doesnt do anyone good. 1 machine at a show that size is pathetic, the fact that they apparently didn't know anything is even worse. If my job is selling widgets, than I would become the most informed widget salesman that I could be. I run into sales guys all the time from Heavy Equipment to pickups that don't invest in the information that they need to become knowledgable about their product. As times continue to get more diffcult guys like that tend to be picking up cans along the Interstate before long.

[mrsops]

I hate hearing that. CASE has a great product, but if the salesman, who are where the rubber meets the road, don't sell the product it doesnt do anyone good. 1 machine at a show that size is pathetic, the fact that they apparently didn't know anything is even worse. If my job is selling widgets, than I would become the most informed widget salesman that I could be. I run into sales guys all the time from Heavy Equipment to pickups that don't invest in the information that they need to become knowledgable about their product. As times continue to get more diffcult guys like that tend to be picking up cans along the Interstate before long.

Im surprised they didnt have any ct machines there or even a bigger skid.

[Junior M]

I have run T-190s three different model years, all new machines at the time. They all ran the same. No power, no breakout, excessive feedback in the sticks, loud, went over relief very easily. I could not keep anyone in the machine. I had to run the POS. I had the same problem last year with a S160. Although I refused to run that machine, sometimes you have lay down the boss card. The T-190 I think is viewed the same by many, its not just me.

The specs of a machine are only indicators of potential performance, or lack there of. However it holds very true with the T-190. Its every bit as incompetent as the specs would suggest it is.
I never said anything about the T190's performance or the 257's for that matter, I was just saying you seem to lean on the spec's card a little to much.

[BOB&ME]

I think that would be the equivelent of watching the slow tractor races at the county fair, maybe the little kid peddle tractor pull on a good day. Which, although mildly entertaining once you've had enough beer, hardly a barn burner. These machines are some of the lowest specing machines in their respective classes.

Being the owner of T190 in video i shall tell u the following:
Bought T190 rated @ 61HP,3250 PSI @ 25.5 gpm as a new machine Feb/2008.
by adjusting injector pump we now have very close to 80 HP.
hooked on a flow meter to high flow aux, hydraulics and that test was right on at 25.5 gpm @ zero load,,,now when we loaded it down to 3250 psi we only had 5 gpm left, (now that is VERY poor)! so i called 2 different bobcat dealers with those figures and they said that is excactly what its supposed to be.
so we adjusted 2 different relieve valves to get this,,,
28 gpm @2000 psi
25 gpm @3000 psi
20 gpm @3200 psi
and i know off a T190 that they had up to 4000 psi but i dont want to overdose mine as off yet.

[ksss]

I never said anything about the T190's performance or the 257's for that matter, I was just saying you seem to lean on the spec's card a little to much.


What makes you say that? Like I said that spec. sheet is an indication of performance and nothing less or more. What do you lean on? Without the spec sheet there is no way to compare machines especially when matching machines to attachments. It is very important. Demoing is important and perhaps the most important in some respects, however you need to know where to start and the spec sheet does that. Some machines don't spec well and those tend to not perform well compared to better specing machines.

I will give you an example of the 256C I ran last Spring. The spec on the breakout was like 7K or just over, pretty good spec for a machine in this class. The machine performed just like the spec suggested that it would, very good breakout, now the bucket size may have a lot to do that, but the spec suggested good breakout performance and the machine delivered that.

I realize that I mention the spec a lot and that may get old. However it is easiest way to express a machines short comings or its strengths. Some machines don't spec well and getting that pushed in your face gets old, but it doesn't change the facts.

[BOB&ME]

I bought that CAT 257B (shown in video) through iron planet in Washington so now i have to decide which will be the keeper!!!:)

[ksss]

Being the owner of T190 in video i shall tell u the following:
Bought T190 rated @ 61HP,3250 PSI @ 25.5 gpm as a new machine Feb/2008.
by adjusting injector pump we now have very close to 80 HP.
hooked on a flow meter to high flow aux, hydraulics and that test was right on at 25.5 gpm @ zero load,,,now when we loaded it down to 3250 psi we only had 5 gpm left, (now that is VERY poor)! so i called 2 different bobcat dealers with those figures and they said that is excactly what its supposed to be.
so we adjusted 2 different relieve valves to get this,,,
28 gpm @2000 psi
25 gpm @3000 psi
20 gpm @3200 psi
and i know off a T190 that they had up to 4000 psi but i dont want to overdose mine as off yet.

I am sure that machine is much more impressive than it was when it was at factory settings. Obviously turning the machine up that much is deprimental to the longevity of the machine. Your machine is off warranty unless you have an extended warranty plan so that is not an issue. Why not just buy a machine that is built to handle the power you obviously need. Be that either a BC or something else, why go to that effort and cause potential problems with your machine by tuning it so far out of its original spec.?

Being a CASE guy I have to throw CASE specs. The CASE comparison website uses the 445 to compete against the 190. The CASE machine grosses 82 hp, 229 foot pounds, 23 gpm at the standard flow, and 33 at high flow at just over 3000 psi, breakout is 6700 verse the BC 3550. All that is factory, the machine is engineered to take that kind of power. The T-190 is not engineered to be turned up, I doubt any one builds a machine to be run out of spec, actually if you go to HEF and listen to what some of the BC mechanics have to say about the T-190. Its not positive and I would assume the majority of T-190s are not turned up, but struggle staying together at factory settings.

I often comment about the performance of the T-190 because I have experienced that, as far as long term ownership, I only know what I read as I have never owned one. I admittedly am not sure how well a T-190 would hold up being turned up. Hopefully yours stays together. I think trying to generate 4000 psi through the machine is a recipe for disaster

[bobcat_ron]

...............now when we loaded it down to 3250 psi we only had 5 gpm left, (now that is VERY poor)! so i called 2 different bobcat dealers with those figures and they said that is excactly what its supposed to be.
so we adjusted 2 different relieve valves to get this,,,
28 gpm @2000 psi
25 gpm @3000 psi
20 gpm @3200 psi
and i know off a T190 that they had up to 4000 psi but i dont want to overdose mine as off yet.


That makes sense, my T190 even on the standard flow setting, it was a bugger to run my brush head in thick grass, my Cat will run it better with 2 GPM less and more pressure.
Have you done the same test on the 257 yet?

[BOB&ME]

That makes sense, my T190 even on the standard flow setting, it was a bugger to run my brush head in thick grass, my Cat will run it better with 2 GPM less and more pressure.
Have you done the same test on the 257 yet?

time was running out and we could not get it to flip to high flow so the answer is no for hydraulic tests on 257B,,,tell us more!


And KSSS the reason for staying small for me is limited hieght in my barn but i need the extra power for custom snow blowing.

[bobcat_ron]

I'd also like to rub this in:
it says something that everytime you buy a Bobcat, you have to order the exploded parts manual through your dealer, when Cat provides a exploded manual for you, free of charge as standard equipment.
The dude that bought my T190 was pissed off that he couldn't get the manual for the T190 and I said that it never came with one.

"shoulda bought a Cat".

[mrsops]

I'd also like to rub this in:
it says something that everytime you buy a Bobcat, you have to order the exploded parts manual through your dealer, when Cat provides a exploded manual for you, free of charge as standard equipment.
The dude that bought my T190 was pissed off that he couldn't get the manual for the T190 and I said that it never came with one.

"shoulda bought a Cat".

Thats funny i got a parts manual for my 305. I didnt even know it was coming with it..

[bobcat_ron]

Thats funny i got a parts manual for my 305. I didnt even know it was coming with it..

That manual saved me 10 minutes of cell phone time while ordering all my filters, just flip through the pages and look for the part number and phone it in.

Did you know that Cat uses a remote A/C system? There is no A/C compressor that runs off an electric clutch from the engine, there's an electric motor that powers the A/C system, nothing but electrical energy for the motor and fans comes from the engine, just amazing.

Just thought I would rub that in too.

[Gravel Rat]

Ron I thought you would know the part numbers by memory :laugh:

[bobcat_ron]

#203-3031 & #230-3032 are the outer and inner filters for the cab, there' lots of numbers, so I wrote them down on the manual for next year's trip to the parts counter.......oh that feels good just thinking about that, back in my "bent-over-backwards-Bobcat days", I used to make a trip to the parts and service counter at least once or twice a month, at least the coffee and service was good.

[Gravel Rat]

The oil, fuel and air filters (engine) you should see if Finnings has a discount if you buy a case of them. There has to be part interchanges with your brothers Cat equipment.

I think Finnings is having a attitude change now that sales have dropped off to nothing.

[BOB&ME]

I'd also like to rub this in:
it says something that everytime you buy a Bobcat, you have to order the exploded parts manual through your dealer, when Cat provides a exploded manual for you, free of charge as standard equipment.
The dude that bought my T190 was pissed off that he couldn't get the manual for the T190 and I said that it never came with one.

"shoulda bought a Cat".

And bobcat don't even give me 1 when i ask 4 it!:nono:

[goatboy67]

I have rented a t190 when I was in desperate need of a tracked machine. They are pi$$ poor machines if you want any breakout force or need horsepower. I had to have my 60XT fill the bucket of the T190 because it didn't have enough breakout to loosen the pile. It is, however, a great alternative for a wheelbarrow. They are absolute pigs...period.

[Junior M]

What makes you say that? Like I said that spec. sheet is an indication of performance and nothing less or more. What do you lean on? Without the spec sheet there is no way to compare machines especially when matching machines to attachments. It is very important. Demoing is important and perhaps the most important in some respects, however you need to know where to start and the spec sheet does that. Some machines don't spec well and those tend to not perform well compared to better specing machines.

I will give you an example of the 256C I ran last Spring. The spec on the breakout was like 7K or just over, pretty good spec for a machine in this class. The machine performed just like the spec suggested that it would, very good breakout, now the bucket size may have a lot to do that, but the spec suggested good breakout performance and the machine delivered that.

I realize that I mention the spec a lot and that may get old. However it is easiest way to express a machines short comings or its strengths. Some machines don't spec well and getting that pushed in your face gets old, but it doesn't change the facts.
I am just not much of a spec believer, thats why I say it, I couldnt tell you the specs on the 335 other than the dump height and weight. Like I said, I just dont like to believe the specs because some machines can do more or less than what the specs say, like a Takkie for a example can lift a whole lot more than what they are spec'd for..

And I agree, reading that your choice in equipment sucks does get old..(when its not in a joking manner:drinkup:)

[Junior M]

I have rented a t190 when I was in desperate need of a tracked machine. They are pi$$ poor machines if you want any breakout force or need horsepower. I had to have my 60XT fill the bucket of the T190 because it didn't have enough breakout to loosen the pile. It is, however, a great alternative for a wheelbarrow. They are absolute pigs...period.
What were you trying to push into? Unless it was absolutely frozen dirt, we've never had an issue rolling dirt or gravel over the back of the bucket..

[ksss]

I am just not much of a spec believer, thats why I say it, I couldnt tell you the specs on the 335 other than the dump height and weight. Like I said, I just dont like to believe the specs because some machines can do more or less than what the specs say, like a Takkie for a example can lift a whole lot more than what they are spec'd for..

And I agree, reading that your choice in equipment sucks does get old..(when its not in a joking manner:drinkup:)


Actually the TK CTL has very good breakout force both on paper and in real life. I don't think you quite understand what the numbers mean. No offense meant by that just that you might not be plugged into what the numbers translate into on the ground.

Also not all BC machines are as weak as the T-190 compared to the others in its class, if that makes you feel any better. Also if you choose better equipment as your prefered brand you wouldn't be offended.:laugh:

[ksss]

What were you trying to push into? Unless it was absolutely frozen dirt, we've never had an issue rolling dirt or gravel over the back of the bucket..

In soft dirt that might be the case, but certainly not in hard or rock ground. I had a hard time breaking out material that I had banked with an excavator on a large foundation. The machine would do nothing but squel as it went over hyd. relief as you tried to push into the pile or breakout of the pile. I know exactly what he is talking about.

[Junior M]

Actually the TK CTL has very good breakout force both on paper and in real life. I don't think you quite understand what the numbers mean. No offense meant by that just that you might not be plugged into what the numbers translate into on the ground.

Also not all BC machines are as weak as the T-190 compared to the others in its class, if that makes you feel any better. Also if you choose better equipment as your prefered brand you wouldn't be offended.:laugh:
Very good point, I dont understand what some of the numbers mean, but it might be because its not the way I look at equipment because I feel they can be decieving. I like to just run a machine and go from there. and what I was saying about Tak, they say they can lift this much, but in reality they can lift alot more.. Thats what I find decieving..

[Nelson M Martin]

Very good point, I dont understand what some of the numbers mean, but it might be because its not the way I look at equipment because I feel they can be decieving. I like to just run a machine and go from there. and what I was saying about Tak, they say they can lift this much, but in reality they can lift alot more.. Thats what I find decieving..

It is not as deceiving to have an under spec. machine then it is to have an over spec machine.
In other words if the machine will do more then they say...more power to you and if the machine will not do what the specs say:dizzy::dizzy:

[Junior M]

It is not as deceiving to have an under spec. machine then it is to have an over spec machine.
In other words if the machine will do more then they say...more power to you and if the machine will not do what the specs say:dizzy::dizzy:
Very true, I just like to run a machine and see what it'll do in the real world, not on paper. Thats the main reason I dont look at spec's..