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GRT
03-03-2009, 03:04 PM
Please advise if you think this is a good practice to removing exisiting grass and creating new beds:

1. Outline new bed area with spray paint - plan installation on paper
2. Use roundup/grass killer to kill all grass within the painted outline. Wait for appropriate time for grass to die.
3. Use sod cutter to remove old sod completely after grass is dead
4. Till soil and add fert or top soil as applicable - compact with lawn roller
5. Install new plantings as applicable.
6. Mulch and Water

Thanks for any advice.

Geoff

GracesLandscaping
03-03-2009, 03:28 PM
dont sound bad to me... only you may not always ahve time to wait for the grass to die

GRT
03-03-2009, 06:31 PM
Thanks. Just planning...

T Money
03-03-2009, 08:31 PM
hey sounds good. Alot of work maybe once the grass and weeds are dead just till it all in. If not i would remove the grass before it dies. This way the grass will hold up better while you are cutting it out.

LB1234
03-03-2009, 08:41 PM
Assuming you are licensed to spray, than ya go ahead. Not sure its necessary to spray AND rent a sod cutter. Why spray it if you are going to be removing it anyway? If ya spray it, just till it in after the applicable time for replanting according to the label.

addictedtolandscaping
03-03-2009, 09:28 PM
Once you have your design, use a garden hose to lay it out on the ground
Then take a can of line paint, mark your perimeter
Use your sod cutter to cut your bed out
Remove sod
Till existing soil and amend as needed
Install new plants
Mulch to a depth of approximately 3"

wmslc
03-04-2009, 12:01 AM
I think that you have a great process, that is exactly what I would recommend! The only advice that I might be able to give is if the given landscape would need to be tilled...I would only do so if:

1) The landscape needed some kind of amendment...ph OR renovation (only if the area needs to be killed AND removed)...most of which would depend on the plants that you would like to grow in that given piece of landscape any time in the near to distant future.

2) I would also not use Glyphosphate AND use a Sod Cutter to remove any of the old turf...unless other circumstances required the use of both....again, depending on the plant that you wish to grow and if you would need to amend the soil.

Other than those two reasons, I have not further recommedations for you.

Good luck bidding, you seem to have a great understanding of the process of creating a new landscape bed!! Hopefully, other landscape contractors read this post and take everyones advice!!

hackitdown
03-04-2009, 08:55 AM
-I outline it with paint or a hose, and cut a deep, wide edge.
-Then hit the grass inside the bed with round-up.
-Wait at least 24 hrs for the roundup to be absorbed by the grass, it may not look dead yet, but it is doomed.
-Remove grass, or till it in.
-Install new plants.
-Mulch.

glfredrick
03-04-2009, 09:51 AM
If you have no plans to use seed, I'd also use an application of Ronstar under the mulch. It will control anything that emerges after installing the beds. It won't effect transplanted material.

I'm with some of the other guys as well. No need to burn down the sod if you are going to cut it anyway. Just go to cutting, and use the sod somewhere else where it is needed.

IntegrityGuy
03-04-2009, 10:58 AM
I would

- outline
- spray with weed killer.
- till (skip the sod cutter)
- edge
- and mulch with atleast 4 inches thick.

Malm's Lawn&Pest Control
03-04-2009, 10:33 PM
There are several ways to "remove old turf" and not more than one is needed (i.e. - using Glyphosate AND machanical removal via sod cutter.

(1) You could obviously use the good old traditional method of 'baking' the grass by solarization. This is basically sufficating the turf. It takes approixmately two months to achieve this (depeding if the weather is warm) - I have never seen anybody use this method

(2) You can use a herbicide to kill the unwanted turf. As mentioned above, glyphosate is a good choice because it doesn't last as long in the environment. After the application of herbicide has caused the grass to die you will want to till it.

(3) The third way is by a sod cutter

Isobel
03-04-2009, 10:39 PM
any time i've ever made beds in existing turf I do this:

1. mark your area,
2. skip the weed killer, just till the area
3. add compost, work it in to the soil
4. take out any large clumps of turf
5. plant, weed blocker, mulch.

works everytime

LB1234
03-05-2009, 10:21 AM
any time i've ever made beds in existing turf I do this:

1. mark your area,
2. skip the weed killer, just till the area
3. add compost, work it in to the soil
4. take out any large clumps of turf
5. plant, weed blocker, mulch.

works everytime


don't you find that the grass just reroots inself and maintenance just becomes a pain.

Isobel
03-05-2009, 11:18 AM
don't you find that the grass just reroots inself and maintenance just becomes a pain.

nope. never had a problem. make sure you use a weed blocker and you're all set.

Now that being said, I know there are certain parts of the country where the grass is much more vigorous, but for the most part we don't have that problem here.

LB1234
03-05-2009, 12:42 PM
nope. never had a problem. make sure you use a weed blocker and you're all set.

Now that being said, I know there are certain parts of the country where the grass is much more vigorous, but for the most part we don't have that problem here.


Interesting. Tried it a few times and it never really worked for us...although I never through any landscape fabric over it. That is probablly the key.

thanks :waving:

hackitdown
03-05-2009, 05:39 PM
nope. never had a problem. make sure you use a weed blocker and you're all set.


When you say weed blocker, are you talking about landscape fabric?

Isobel
03-05-2009, 05:42 PM
When you say weed blocker, are you talking about landscape fabric?

Landscape fabric will do.

terraman21
03-05-2009, 08:10 PM
I would

- outline
- spray with weed killer.
- till (skip the sod cutter)
- edge
- and mulch with atleast 4 inches thick.



I totally disagree i would not till the sprayed grass into the soil the decaying grass creates amonia and that will kill the plants and dont foorget the round up still in the soil that you want to plant in. and i wouldnt put more than 2 inches of mulch ever maybe 3 at the absolute most but 4 inches is over kill it will cause moisture to cause mold under the mulch and kill the plants from the roots. im sorry but I think your idea is completely wrong and you need to read up and know your stuff better.

glfredrick
03-05-2009, 10:46 PM
I totally disagree i would not till the sprayed grass into the soil the decaying grass creates amonia and that will kill the plants and dont foorget the round up still in the soil that you want to plant in. and i wouldnt put more than 2 inches of mulch ever maybe 3 at the absolute most but 4 inches is over kill it will cause moisture to cause mold under the mulch and kill the plants from the roots. im sorry but I think your idea is completely wrong and you need to read up and know your stuff better.

Not to turn this entire thread into a shouting match, but I agree with the quote above. I've renovated multiple beds over the past year in places where I must guarantee results, and I've had the best success in physically removing sod, amending the soil for planting, then using mulch sparingly, as cover, not as weed block.

I've never successfully tilled sod and had it turn out OK, and in fact, the couple of beds where I tried that have become nightmares for me. In one, there was evidently a smallish fragment of Yucca left, now I have 8. I've tried almost everything in my arsenal to get rid of them, and the harder I try, the better they grow. I think that Roundup Pro is fertilizer for them!

I also am plagued by wild violets, white clover, and a host of other undesirable green plans in the areas I'm needing to renovate, so I remove the top, replace and amend the soil, then replant. I win every time that way.

MarkintheGarden
03-06-2009, 12:53 AM
There are lots of ways to prepare a bed but the method should be according to what you are going to grow and the condition of the soil you are planting in.

Hey Terraman, I agree with you that two inches is plenty enough mulch, but most of the stuff that grows in mulch is good for your plants, The white stuff especially.

terraman21
03-06-2009, 03:07 AM
i agree some of what grows under the mulch is good i just can picuture someone puting 4 or more inches down and inturn choking out the brand new plants thou. and well that can be costly for the installer in so many ways

Chicagolawns
03-06-2009, 07:42 PM
The only time we spray before cutting out a bed is if there are alot of weeds or other intrusive stuff that has deep root systems. If we're just removing grass we 1) Spray the bedline
2) Trench a deep edge along the spray line
3) Use the sod cutter to remove the grass. In small areas, getting down on the knees with a sharp spade is the quickest for me.
4) Till the soil, remove any clumps of clay, rocks
5) Add approx. 3-4"of compost
6) Lay out the plants and get them in the ground
7) Mulch then water
8) Most important- Get the check shortly thereafter

4.3mudder
03-06-2009, 08:52 PM
I never use weed blocker anymore, I had nothing but problems with weeds starting to come up a month later, And I did put a nice layer of mulch on top. What I do now is just put mulch down and skip the weed blocker. That is just my luck, but other people it might have worked out for, just not for me.

lifetree
03-06-2009, 10:01 PM
It sounds like a plan to me !!