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whoopassonthebluegrass
03-03-2009, 08:22 PM
I've been reading up for 2+ hours on all I could find about pumps...

I have a Lesco Space Saver. It has the Hypro D403 on it. I loathe it. It requires such frequent maintenance, it's a nightmare.

I am considering swapping it out for a Hypro D30. Folks seem to go longer between rebuilds with them, and they apparently last for years and years.

Will the D30 fit directly onto my existing gear box and motor? Is this investment REALLY going to save me some headache?

ANY FEEDBACK OR OPINIONS WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

heritage
03-03-2009, 08:42 PM
I've been reading up for 2+ hours on all I could find about pumps...

I have a Lesco Space Saver. It has the Hypro D403 on it. I loathe it. It requires such frequent maintenance, it's a nightmare.

I am considering swapping it out for a Hypro D30. Folks seem to go longer between rebuilds with them, and they apparently last for years and years.

Will the D30 fit directly onto my existing gear box and motor? Is this investment REALLY going to save me some headache?

ANY FEEDBACK OR OPINIONS WOULD BE APPRECIATED.


Hi Whoop,

Go to this link and then contact them by phone and ask. When looking at the 403 is appears they use the same gearbox, BUT call to make sure :)

I have 2 D-30s and LOVE THEM!

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/product.asp?pg=95

Pete

sprayboy
03-03-2009, 09:39 PM
whoop,
I just replaced my D-30 and regulator this winter after running the old one since 1996. The only reason I replaced it was because some of the coating on the inside was starting to flake off. The only trouble I ever had out of it was rubber diaphrams going bad........just normal.

I spent a lot of time searching for the best price and came across the one in the link from Pete. I was skeptical of it because of the (AR) and about $100 cheaper than anyone else. The output specs are a little different than the other websites I found, even Hypros website. Rittenhouse told me it WAS a Hypro. I talked to the Hypro guys at the Farm Machinery Show in Louisville last month and they said they never heard of a D-30 with (AR) attached to it, he had been with the company over 10 years. He looked very puzzled about what I was asking and stopped short of calling it a knock-off.

I spent the extra $100 and got mine through Dultmeier, did not want to take the chance.

As far as mounting, I would call Hypro. Weather it mounts the same or the gearing is the same I don't know. When I called them as I was first searching, it was very easy to reach and talk to their tech guys. (No one in India answered the phone.)

Just my experience this winter.

MStine315
03-03-2009, 10:16 PM
Whoop, I didn't see this thread before I posted in the other one. Let me/us know what you find out about replacing the 403 with the D30 on the Kaw. I'm very interested in the outcome. Thanks

Ric
03-03-2009, 10:51 PM
Whooped

The D 30 pump and gear box use the same crank shaft.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-03-2009, 11:06 PM
Whooped

The D 30 pump and gear box use the same crank shaft.

Excellent! I'm soooooo glad they have internet access at the nursing home!!!

Ric
03-03-2009, 11:45 PM
Excellent! I'm soooooo glad they have internet access at the nursing home!!!

Yes Whooped

The nurses even tape a pencil to my hand so I can type with my arm.

treegal1
03-04-2009, 12:05 AM
The nurses even tape a pencil to my hand so I can type with my arm. i pictured it with a warden or keeper and tentacles or a claw. but thanks for the hook up info, one used 403 for sale cheap, needs.... well they all need to be taken to field and shot...........

Ric
03-04-2009, 08:51 AM
i pictured it with a warden or keeper and tentacles or a claw. but thanks for the hook up info, one used 403 for sale cheap, needs.... well they all need to be taken to field and shot...........

Treegal

You know how state institutions for the criminally insane are. As an inmate we call them nurses. As a tax payer you call them maximum security armed guards. Oops time for the morning round of happy pills, got to go.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 10:13 AM
Has someone used both of these pumps and can assure me that the D30 is, in fact, going to require less maintenance than the D403?

ToniDavies
03-04-2009, 10:20 AM
Hypro diaphragm pumps are made in Italy by AR Company. Hypro pumps and AR pumps are identical. If you wish to confirm this you can call Hypro or feel free to give us a call.
Threre is a little less maintenance with the D30 as there are 3 diaphragms in the D403 and only 2 in the D30. Over the years we have better success with the D30.
The D30 is standard equipment on most Rittenhouse Lawn Sprayers.
Toni

treegal1
03-04-2009, 10:33 AM
oh only a little less flow with the D30, maybe i put up with the 403 and get some spare parts on hand, but dang its a PITA to do...... eh it is what it is, a job...............

thanks for the info Toni

sprayboy
03-04-2009, 10:35 AM
Hypro diaphragm pumps are made in Italy by AR Company. Hypro pumps and AR pumps are identical. If you wish to confirm this you can call Hypro or feel free to give us a call.
Threre is a little less maintenance with the D30 as there are 3 diaphragms in the D403 and only 2 in the D30. Over the years we have better success with the D30.
The D30 is standard equipment on most Rittenhouse Lawn Sprayers.
Toni

If the pump is identical then why does Rittenhouse list it as a 8.5 gpm pump and Hypro website lists it as a 9.5 gpm?

Just curious

ToniDavies
03-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Rittenhouse 8.5 Imperial Gallons, Hypro 9.0 US Gallons in the Hypro Book, 9.5 US Gallons on the Hypro Website??? Good question, we are just about to call Hypro for clarification.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 10:54 AM
oh only a little less flow with the D30, maybe i put up with the 403 and get some spare parts on hand...

I guess what my concern boils down to is this:

On my D403, I go through diaphragms every couple of months (under light use). Is the D30 (being the same basic technology) going to have diaphragms fail just as quickly? Because if I still end up having to rebuild the pump just as often, I may as well not replace it. (I can do it in my sleep at this point.)

heritage
03-04-2009, 11:09 AM
I guess what my concern boils down to is this:

On my D403, I go through diaphragms every couple of months (under light use). Is the D30 (being the same basic technology) going to have diaphragms fail just as quickly? Because if I still end up having to rebuild the pump just as often, I may as well not replace it. (I can do it in my sleep at this point.)

Whoop,

As long as you are NOT plugging suction lines, you will not have Diaphram failure so darn quick with the 30.

I change em' on the D-30 ONCE a season and I spray A LOT of gallons with that good ole' pump :)

I like my D-30 buddy...You will also.

Pete

sprayboy
03-04-2009, 11:26 AM
Whoop,

Every couple months...........I would get tired of that too.

I have went longer than 1 season with the rubbers in my D-30. Just replacing them every winter is a good preventative thing.

I pump A LOT of gallons through mine every year.

Ric
03-04-2009, 11:28 AM
oh only a little less flow with the D30, maybe i put up with the 403 and get some spare parts on hand, but dang its a PITA to do...... eh it is what it is, a job...............

thanks for the info Toni

Treegal

Unless you are applying 100 gallon per thousand as a termite pretreat, why would you need more GPM than a D 30 puts out???? Why not go to a D 50 or Beam pump? BTW I use hydra cels that are 25 GPM and are an over kill at $4200 each brand new. But I only change diaphragms every 5 or 6 years.

Why not listen to the sales manager of Rittenhouse who said they have more problems with D 403 than the old stand by D 30 that has been used for years now. Only major problem I have had with the D 30 is the epoxy lining coming off after 10 years of pumping fertilizer. I made the mistake of replacing parts at about the same cost of a new pump.

Heritage

Dirty Filter could be Whooped's problem. He always has impressed me as the type that doesn't wipe.

heritage
03-04-2009, 11:43 AM
Treegal

Unless you are applying 100 gallon per thousand as a termite pretreat, why would you need more GPM than a D 30 puts out???? Why not go to a D 50 or Beam pump? BTW I use hydra cels that are 25 GPM and are an over kill at $4200 each brand new. But I only change diaphragms every 5 or 6 years.

Why not listen to the sales manager of Rittenhouse who said they have more problems with D 403 than the old stand by D 30 that has been used for years now. Only major problem I have had with the D 30 is the epoxy lining coming off after 10 years of pumping fertilizer. I made the mistake of replacing parts at about the same cost of a new pump.

Heritage

Dirty Filter could be Whooped's problem. He always has impressed me as the type that doesn't wipe.


Ha Ha Ric.

I mostly use a TeeJet AA126 with 35 mesh filter on my pumps unless I am using a Blue Nozzle on the Chem lawn Gun......Then I add a 2nd, smaller TeeJet 122 inline filter 100 mesh filter, with quick disconnects, and attach at the inlet of the hose reel. Only running 50-60 psi at the pump, so no worries about blowing up the 150 psi filter on the pressure side.

The filters lesco used had a very fine mesh I think 75 or 100, and I had one and removed it, when I bought a 100 gal sprayer from them...They are junk, and could be Whoops Issue.

Now he can wipe Ha Ha.

Check the filter Whoop Buddy.

Pete

treegal1
03-04-2009, 11:50 AM
we are low pressure mass flow orgies, we spray tea......

yes i am starting to question my pump need again, its like i have pump A.D.D.................D50 nice one more thing to obsess over..................

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 11:53 AM
Dirty Filter could be Whooped's problem. He always has impressed me as the type that doesn't wipe.

Hey, I'm just saving the trees, old man. At least I still take the time to head for the bathroom. I just don't know HOW you can wear those Depends all day...

The filters lesco used had a very fine mesh I think 75 or 100, and I had one and removed it, when I bought a 100 gal sprayer from them...They are junk, and could be Whoops Issue...

Are we talking about the clear strainer filter? If so, I watch it constantly and clean it out all the time. The only time it really gets any build up at all, though, is if I let prodiamine settle out...

heritage
03-04-2009, 11:59 AM
we are low pressure mass flow orgies, we spray tea......

yes i am starting to question my pump need again, its like i have pump A.D.D.................D50 nice one more thing to obsess over..................

Treegal,

If I were spraying above 35 feet high, I would make the easy switch to the D-50 On my 8HP set-up.....But I don't need that much GPM, as I spray Ornamentals, not tall trees. The small Kawi engine on my other D-30 pump would not be able to muscle the 50.

The D-50 is same principal as the D-30......Very Reliable and proven tough in the field.


To each their own...

Pete

heritage
03-04-2009, 12:12 PM
Hey, I'm just saving the trees, old man. At least I still take the time to head for the bathroom. I just don't know HOW you can wear those Depends all day...



Are we talking about the clear strainer filter? If so, I watch it constantly and clean it out all the time. The only time it really gets any build up at all, though, is if I let prodiamine settle out...

Yes Whoop.

The issue with that SMALL mesh is MUCH MORE strain on the suction of fluid through it. That strain is guess where on a higher GPM 3 Diaphram Pump.......Yep the Diaphrams.

Upgrade that filter for one thing.

Another thing I failed to mention is the Lesco 100 gal ALSO had this small 1/2" hose , built into their plastic manifold/ gate valve contraption that would pump the PUMP BYPASS line back to the Suction line, and that when not spraying with pump running, would feed into the Suction Manifold Line.

It caused Cavitation which ALSO would be hard on the Diaphrams too. I put a "Plug" in the Manifold and re-routed the pump BYPASS through a bulkhead assembly I added to the top of the tank, the way it should be in the first place. No more Cavitation.

I did this "Upgrade" to my Lesco 100 gal within 10 hours of operation.

Can you take a pic of your pump line routing and post??

Pete

Ric
03-04-2009, 12:17 PM
we are low pressure mass flow orgies, we spray tea......

yes i am starting to question my pump need again, its like i have pump A.D.D.................D50 nice one more thing to obsess over..................

Treegal

I forgot you are polluter and not an applicator. May I suggest a 50 GPM trash pump to fill your needs.

Ric
03-04-2009, 12:22 PM
Hey, I'm just saving the trees, old man. At least I still take the time to head for the bathroom. I just don't know HOW you can wear those Depends all day...

Whooped

Hey I purposely don't make the bathroom. At my age having a sweet young lady clean me up 3 times a day is a thrill. Bet you don't that action in a week.

LawnTamer
03-04-2009, 01:11 PM
Whooped

Hey I purposely don't make the bathroom. At my age having a sweet young lady clean me up 3 times a day is a thrill. Bet you don't that action in a week.

Ric manages to type as a 230lb male nurse changes his man-diaper. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Just kidding Ric, but I gotta say, you have a weird idea of "action".


Heritage: I have had that cavitation you are describing. Right now my rig is taken apart, I pull my pump in the winter to store it in a warm place, but once I get it re-assembled, I will take some pics and look forward to any advice you, or others may have. I am certain that cavitation is hard on my pump, and motor.

heritage
03-04-2009, 01:26 PM
Ric manages to type as a 230lb male nurse changes his man-diaper. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Just kidding Ric, but I gotta say, you have a weird idea of "action".


Heritage: I have had that cavitation you are describing. Right now my rig is taken apart, I pull my pump in the winter to store it in a warm place, but once I get it re-assembled, I will take some pics and look forward to any advice you, or others may have. I am certain that cavitation is hard on my pump, and motor.

You got it.

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 01:30 PM
Right now my pump/motor is in a temperature controlled closet, while the rest of the unit is out in the barn...

Lemme see what I can do...

heritage
03-04-2009, 02:17 PM
Whoop,

Open this link and see if this is what you have: http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/product.asp?pg=667

If in fact you do have this manifold, I suggest you remove the brass fitting where the bypass hose inserts and put a plug in it, then put a bulkhead in the top of yor tank, and run the bypass from the pump to this bulkhead.

Also here is a link for the filter you should replace that stock clear one with IMO. Ask for the 16 mesh/grey screen.

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/product.asp?pg=1059

Pete

JLWC
03-04-2009, 02:41 PM
hay woop do you use pendulumin in your mix it will destroy your rubber diaphragm

Ric
03-04-2009, 04:26 PM
Pete

I have a real problem with Rittenhouse up selling Galvanized fitting connected to Brass hose barbs. That spells Rust to me in capital letters. I am not going to explain catatonic reactions to make my point but this wasn't done by an educated person.

heritage
03-04-2009, 06:10 PM
Pete

I have a real problem with Rittenhouse up selling Galvanized fitting connected to Brass hose barbs. That spells Rust to me in capital letters. I am not going to explain catatonic reactions to make my point but this wasn't done by an educated person.

Ric,

Yeah I saw that upgrade and thought WOW, it won't break as easy but jeez whats up with the galvanized and brass. If someone wanted to go that route, surly expect to have a spare on hand as that would be as good as welded with the reactions you discribe.

Shame they have crap too. There customer service though for me has been 100% so far in the past. Perhaps they will see this and use better materials.

Pete

robert@rittenhouse
03-04-2009, 06:29 PM
Hello All

re: Galvanized fittings

We have been using some galvanized fittings on spray equipment for decades. After a while you may get some rusting. This happens after years of use, not weeks of use. Clearly the best material is brass or stainless steel but the cost can be prohibitive.

The reason we chose galv. for this assembly is to offer something that will not easily break or crack. We have sold many of those assemblies (its only been on our website for a year now) and have had zero reports of any problems. So if you have installed it, do not worry. Someday, way into the future you might find a little bit of rust clogging your nozzles, then its time to replace those fittings again.

Hope that clears up the issue.

--------------------------------------------------

We are always glad to get feedback on our equipment, parts and service and are very happy to answer any questions.

Lawnsite rules, I send people here everyday. Its the wealth of information and the experience in the trade of the posters that makes this place great. Hope you all have a successful season.

heritage
03-04-2009, 06:41 PM
Hello All

re: Galvanized fittings

We have been using some galvanized fittings on spray equipment for decades. After a while you may get some rusting. This happens after years of use, not weeks of use. Clearly the best material is brass or stainless steel but the cost can be prohibitive.

The reason we chose galv. for this assembly is to offer something that will not easily break or crack. We have sold many of those assemblies (its only been on our website for a year now) and have had zero reports of any problems. So if you have installed it, do not worry. Someday, way into the future you might find a little bit of rust clogging your nozzles, then its time to replace those fittings again.

Hope that clears up the issue.

--------------------------------------------------

We are always glad to get feedback on our equipment, parts and service and are very happy to answer any questions.

Lawnsite rules, I send people here everyday. Its the wealth of information and the experience in the trade of the posters that makes this place great. Hope you all have a successful season.

Hi Robert,

Thank you for actually listening to what the guys in the field actually have to say.

I agree that there is some good knowlege here on this site.

Keep up the great Service!

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 06:55 PM
Okay, here's the layout of a Lesco Space Saver.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 06:57 PM
We are always glad to get feedback on our equipment, parts and service and are very happy to answer any questions.

Robert: could you clarify the discrepancy between the Rittenhouse specs for the D30 vs. what Hypro claims?

Your D30 is the real thing, right? (And not an 8 year old never-sold unit, by the way)... ??????

Thanks!!!

Ric
03-04-2009, 07:08 PM
Robert

Nice of you to address my concerns. Kudos to Rittenhouse for being on the ball.

True straight insecticide and water will not rust Galvanize quickly and it can hold up for years. However Add a little Potash (potassium) and some Nitrogen to the mix and you sure speed up the process. It all has to due with the chemistry of ion movement from an positive (galvanize) to a negative (Brass). Multi-million dollar boats have sunk at the dock because of this type of plumbing. I have seen Pesticide tanks break lose spilling what the EPA considers hazards material, requiring Chemtech clean up crews at great cost.

I would never use Galvanized fitting because Murphy's Law is a friend of mine and it will break at the most inopportune time.

I strongly advise you to reconsider this Item as not being the best product to sell. Or to put a warning about using it for any saline material. I do find Nylon fitting to hold up better than PVC at a cost factor lower than SS, brass or even galvanize

robert@rittenhouse
03-04-2009, 07:18 PM
Robert: could you clarify the discrepancy between the Rittenhouse specs for the D30 vs. what Hypro claims?

Your D30 is the real thing, right? (And not an 8 year old never-sold unit, by the way)... ??????

Thanks!!!


Absolutely, the real thing. Feel free to call Hypro and ask about us.

The problem with the D30 stats ..... are you ready for the long story???? The pump is made in Italy by AR. Hypro imports them and re-labels them with the brand "Hypro". The way I understood the name of the pump is that the "30" part of the D30 name stands for 30 liters per minute. So when you transfer that to US gallons, and you transfer it to Imperial gallons its going to provide 2 different numbers. Hence the 8.5 and the 9.5 numbers.

Today when I heard you were having this discussion, I jumped on AR's website in Italy ... and they say the flow is 34 liters per minute. So now I am completely confused.

Then I looked it up in older Hypro catalogs that I have kicking around my desk and found that 3 years ago Hypro said the pump was 8.5, and that is what we put on the website. Then I look in this years Hypro catalog it says 9.5.

So, apparently nobody is sure what the flow rate actually is..... or its a moving target. :hammerhead:

But I guarantee, if you buy a D30 from Rittenhouse you are getting the real thing, a Hypro D30 in a Hypro box, a Hypro serial number, a Hypro guarantee and Rittenhouse backing it all up.

Sorry for the confusion.

heritage
03-04-2009, 07:25 PM
Okay, here's the layout of a Lesco Space Saver.

Nice Pics Whoop.

From Regulator back to filter, is the Bypass from the Pump. The way Lesco/Cub Cadet plumbed it back into the Suction line is unfavorable design flaw IMO and will cause Cavation issues which will put unneeded extra stress on the Diaphrams. Remove 1/2' nipple and plug the hole near the filter, and reroute a longer hose to a Bulkhead and mount near the other 2 bulkheads on TOP of the tank.

The return line from the pressure side of the pump, I like as the jet agitation is adjustable.........But the Bypass from the Pump can never have any restrictions between the pump and Tank.

Before pulling the Trigger on a new D-30 you may want to change out the Diaphrams one last time and re-plumb as I suggest.......As well as change the Suction Filter to a 26 Mesh.

I think you won't have any trouble the season with the 403 with this upgrade.

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 08:30 PM
Absolutely, the real thing. Feel free to call Hypro and ask about us.

Thanks for the feedback, that's terrific!! I'll be ordering shortly.

One more question, if I may: will this unit that is in the pictures allow me to directly mate one of your D30's to the gear box and motor? Ric says yes... but his Alzheimers is so severe that I never know whether it's safe to trust him or not.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 08:39 PM
NOTE: while I'm discussing this directly with Pete, anyone with any ideas/opinions outside of his, I'd still like to hear them!!

...The way Lesco/Cub Cadet plumbed it back into the Suction line is unfavorable design flaw IMO and will cause Cavation issues which will put unneeded extra stress on the Diaphrams. Remove 1/2' nipple and plug the hole near the filter, and reroute a longer hose to a Bulkhead and mount near the other 2 bulkheads on TOP of the tank.

So just have the bypass drop back into the tank then? You feel that'll alleviate some of the drama I'm dealing with?

...The Bypass from the Pump can never have any restrictions between the pump and Tank.

Just trying to understand what's happening in the pump here - is it that the diaphragms are having to fight resistance as they push the fluids through, or what?

Before pulling the Trigger on a new D-30 you may want to change out the Diaphrams one last time and re-plumb as I suggest...

While this appeals to my pocketbook, I must confess that I'm fearful of putting my faith back into the D403... How strongly do you feel that this issue will be remedied via the replumbing?

...As well as change the Suction Filter to a 26 Mesh.

So just remove the existing unit and plumb the one in that you linked to? And once that's done, does that mean I'm gonna deal with massive clogs at my nozzle? Also, is it feasible to just purchase a different mesh for the existing filter?

Thanks.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 09:40 PM
hay woop do you use pendulum in your mix it will destroy your rubber diaphragm

Thanks for the input. I only run prodiamine.

RigglePLC
03-04-2009, 10:55 PM
I think Pete is right. He sounds like the voice of experience. The way Lesco routed the pressure dump bypass flow, back to just in front of the filter--is a bad idea--and another reason--when you are not spraying, the fluid going around and around endlessly heats up. It may exceed the safe working temperature of the diaphragms. Make sure you are using the genuine "Desmopan" diaphragms, not the ordinary cheap black rubber diaphragms. Esters and warm water temps are harder on the diaphragms.

What speed is the motor running? Is the Kawi at max? If you don't need high pressure half throttle may be enough--and easier on the pump.

My setup sends the bypass flow back into the agitation line using a Tee fitting. Works fine. There is not much restriction in this return line, in my setup (I use four spraying systems agitation booster nozzles. (I use Hypro D252 pump --6 gal per min).

Brass and galvanized iron have not caused any problems in my setup.

I use a 325 mesh filter screen in front of the pump. Have a hundred mesh pre-filter inside the tank.

I use a spraying systems pressure relief valve with stainless steel seats--it 's better.

heritage
03-04-2009, 11:10 PM
NOTE: while I'm discussing this directly with Pete, anyone with any ideas/opinions outside of his, I'd still like to hear them!!



So just have the bypass drop back into the tank then? You feel that'll alleviate some of the drama I'm dealing with?

I believe it will indeed.

Just trying to understand what's happening in the pump here - is it that the diaphragms are having to fight resistance as they push the fluids through, or what?

I feel that the cavatation that takes place where the current bypass return line plumbs in, has a drastic effect on the flow to the pump, causing "Pulses" that cause an erratic flow.....The diaphrams take the brunt.


While this appeals to my pocketbook, I must confess that I'm fearful of putting my faith back into the D403... How strongly do you feel that this issue will be remedied via the replumbing?


Pretty strongly. This and the filter is what I would change. I say go for it, one last shot Before you spend on a D-30. If or when you put a D-30 on that gearbox, it mounts Perpendicular to the box whereas the 403 runs parallel with the box....You will have to move the suction filter mount as well as the reel motor to make the D-30 fit proper.


So just remove the existing unit and plumb the one in that you linked to? And once that's done, does that mean I'm gonna deal with massive clogs at my nozzle? Also, is it feasible to just purchase a different mesh for the existing filter?

Rittenhouse has YOUR filter with a 20 Mesh option if you want to stick with that clear housing, BUT they do not offer the 20 mesh screen only....You have to but the entire filter.

Also what size spray nozzle?? For Turf??? Green...Yellow...Blue Lesco???

I like a smaller 50-100 mesh as a 2nd filter on the pressure side when using small turf flood nozzles. Not an issue for the pump AND not an issue for the low volume spray as pressures are below 100psi.

Thanks.

I hope that make it more clear to you Whoop.

Also remember that the 20 mesh or the 16 mesh if you go with the TeeJet Suction filter, allow better flow and clog far LESS. THIS relieves a LOT of stress on the Diaghprams as well as fixing that Bypass line corectly.

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 11:21 PM
So if I reroute the bypass into the tank, could I just tie mine into the existing agitation line, too? Or would I need to increase the diameter of the agitation plumbing to prevent the same problem occurring on the way back down into the tank?

heritage
03-04-2009, 11:31 PM
I think Pete is right. He sounds like the voice of experience. The way Lesco routed the pressure dump bypass flow, back to just in front of the filter--is a bad idea--and another reason--when you are not spraying, the fluid going around and around endlessly heats up. It may exceed the safe working temperature of the diaphragms. Make sure you are using the genuine "Desmopan" diaphragms, not the ordinary cheap black rubber diaphragms. Esters and warm water temps are harder on the diaphragms.

What speed is the motor running? Is the Kawi at max? If you don't need high pressure half throttle may be enough--and easier on the pump.

My setup sends the bypass flow back into the agitation line using a Tee fitting. Works fine. There is not much restriction in this return line, in my setup (I use four spraying systems agitation booster nozzles. (I use Hypro D252 pump --6 gal per min).

Brass and galvanized iron have not caused any problems in my setup.

I use a 325 mesh filter screen in front of the pump. Have a hundred mesh pre-filter inside the tank.

I use a spraying systems pressure relief valve with stainless steel seats--it 's better.

Riggle,

More good points, great.

I only run the throttle about 3/4 full with everything except wettable powders and Nitroform Powder Blue....With those I need ALL 9 or so of the GPM of the D-30 in a 300 Gal tank, as well as my Supermix Agitator on a pressure line, to keep in suspension.

So running full throttle otherwise IMO is overkill.

The Spraying Systems Pressure Relief Valve is a great option as far as wear is concerned. The Stock Valve that Comes on the D-30 has the "Hockey Puck" that you access by removing the 2 bolts to change. If you use abrasive materials, and you have lost pressure, but it's not erratic at the pressure gauge, from a worn valve and seat or some crud in between, you can bet that hockey puck has a big Divot worn into it. Riggle's switch is a good option if you have dedicated the sprayer for either High pressure Ornamental OR Just Turf and low pressure Ornamental spraying as with the 0-300 psi option Relief valve you can't run over 300 psi and with the 300-700psi Relief valve, you won't be able to run low pressure Turf, because you will not have enough sensitivity, and too heavy spring.

Agree with the Better Diaphram option also, an also point out NON-DETERGENT OIL to Whoop.......Did you know that one Whoop......It's in the Manual. The Detergent also break down the Rubbers.


Good discusssion for the Hypro Pump Users.

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 11:33 PM
Rittenhouse has YOUR filter with a 20 Mesh option if you want to stick with that clear housing, BUT they do not offer the 20 mesh screen only....You have to but the entire filter.

As I was putting the sprayer together for those pix, I found that my strainer glass is cracked internally all the way around. So maybe it's time to replace it, anyhow. I like the comfort of seeing that filter anytime I am over at the pump and motor. I think I'll try the same unit with the 20 mesh... Is this the unit you were referencing?

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=2179 (the $42.08 choice)

Also what size spray nozzle?? For Turf??? Green...Yellow...Blue Lesco???

I've been running the yellow 2GPM nozzle. I use this setup strictly for turf.

I like a smaller 50-100 mesh as a 2nd filter on the pressure side when using small turf flood nozzles. Not an issue for the pump AND not an issue for the low volume spray as pressures are below 100psi.

That sounds nice. I clog my nozzle quite frequently. Where in the assembly do you have it connected? Just prior to the reel?

I hope that make it more clear to you Whoop.

So far so good. I wouldn't say I'm out of the woods yet, but I genuinely appreciate all the help thus far.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 11:35 PM
I always run the Desmopan diaphragms and SAE30 Non-detergent oil.

heritage
03-04-2009, 11:44 PM
So if I reroute the bypass into the tank, could I just tie mine into the existing agitation line, too? Or would I need to increase the diameter of the agitation plumbing to prevent the same problem occurring on the way back down into the tank?

Whoop.

No. Leave those alone. That line that returns to the tank/jet agitation is on a PRESSURE line of the Pump itself. This won't hurt the Diaphrams, and you will get better mixing/suspension with that setup.

You will need to Buy a Bulkhead of proper size. I will look up what you need and post for you.

When your bulkhead comes in the mail, you will take it to a Hardware Store to buy the Correct Size Hole Cutter, and then mount near the existing 2 bulkheads where the pressure line agitation and the Suction to pump hose is mounted on top of the Tank.......It's EASY to do and it wont leak as the Bulkhead screws together like a sandwich with a rubber gasket between.

Then just put a nylon plug where you remove the existing 3/8 hose that goes from the pump bypass to the manifold near the filter.

You will also need a longer 3/8 hose to run from the Pump to the new bulkhead /fitting you add to the top of the tank....That is the Pump "Bypass" and should have no resistance.

It won't be hard to do. I will get some links on here for you for parts.

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-04-2009, 11:53 PM
You will need to Buy a Bulkhead of proper size. I will look up what you need and post for you.

I was eyeballing these ones earlier:

http://www.turfeagle.com/products/product1204.html

When your bulkhead comes in the mail, you will take it to a Hardware Store to buy the Correct Size Hole Cutter, and then mount near the existing 2 bulkheads where the pressure line agitation and the Suction to pump hose is mounted on top of the Tank.......It's EASY to do and it wont leak as the Bulkhead screws together like a sandwich with a rubber gasket between.

Actually, wood bits (spade bits for larger sizes) bore through the tank with incredible ease, and accuracy.

You will also need a longer 3/8 hose to run from the Pump to the new bulkhead /fitting you add to the top of the tank....That is the Pump "Bypass" and should have no resistance.

Should I run something bigger than 3/8"?? The original line there was a 1" hose.

Thanks.

heritage
03-04-2009, 11:55 PM
As I was putting the sprayer together for those pix, I found that my strainer glass is cracked internally all the way around. So maybe it's time to replace it, anyhow. I like the comfort of seeing that filter anytime I am over at the pump and motor. I think I'll try the same unit with the 20 mesh... Is this the unit you were referencing?

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=2179 (the $42.08 choice)


Yes exactly correct. When you mount as you likely know, a very good seal with Teflon tape is key. Save the Gasket from your old Bowl too....You may need it someday...Put some grease on it.


I've been running the yellow 2GPM nozzle. I use this setup strictly for turf.

OK, then a 2nd 50 mesh filter would make that issue go away....No more unscrewing and tapping to clean in the middle of a lawn...Boy what a pain.. And it works waaay better than placing panty hose over the thread than screwing on the yellow cap over top of it...That affected the flow/spray pattern to much from my experance.



That sounds nice. I clog my nozzle quite frequently. Where in the assembly do you have it connected? Just prior to the reel?


Yes I put in where the hose enters the reel, and use quick disconnects...I get them From Oesco in Mass. Keep your pressure below 100psi.


So far so good. I wouldn't say I'm out of the woods yet, but I genuinely appreciate all the help thus far.



Your will be happy when you make all these upgrades. Less downtime, a smoother running pump, and a clean Nozzle LOL.

Pete

grassman177
03-05-2009, 12:01 AM
we use the d30 and they have been great, i owuld not know another but i iknwo this one is great

heritage
03-05-2009, 12:07 AM
I was eyeballing these ones earlier:

http://www.turfeagle.com/products/product1204.html



Actually, wood bits (spade bits for larger sizes) bore through the tank with incredible ease, and accuracy.



Should I run something bigger than 3/8"?? The original line there was a 1" hose.

Thanks.

The 3/8 is the Bypass hose from the pump. They plumbed it into the 1" Suction line......There lies the problem.

So the 1" Suction line will remain 1".

The 3/8 Bypass line will get it's own dedicated Bulkhead (new you will add) and you will plug the end where the 3/8 hose was plumbed into the 1" manifold/Hose.

The 1/2" yellow spray hose that runs from your pump, to the top bulkhead, to the agitation tube will remain.

So now you will have a Dedicated 1" Suction line......A dedicated "Pump Bypass" line......And a Pressure Agitation Line.

The way it should have come from the factory :)

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 12:10 AM
Your will be happy when you make all these upgrades. Less downtime, a smoother running pump, and a clean Nozzle LOL.

I keep thinking that the strainer I have is a 40 mesh. I'll get it back out of the barn tomorrow and take pix of it...

As for the after-the-pump strainer: what unit is that? Do you have a picture of how it hooks in, or a link? And how often do you have to clean it out?

Thanks (again).

heritage
03-05-2009, 12:38 AM
I keep thinking that the strainer I have is a 40 mesh. I'll get it back out of the barn tomorrow and take pix of it...

As for the after-the-pump strainer: what unit is that? Do you have a picture of how it hooks in, or a link? And how often do you have to clean it out?

Thanks (again).

I clean out at the end of a week of spraying turf but never clogged yet.


Here are some links:

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/product.asp?pg=364 Get the 1/2" Bulkhead assm.

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/product.asp?pg=783 Get 5 feet of 3/8" clear Braided.

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/product.asp?pg=286 Get Hose Barb Male Elbow 1/2"X3/8" EL1238PP

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/product.asp?pg=463 Get the 122 Line strainer 1/2" and ask in the notes section for a 50 or 80 Mesh filter. Order 2 extra bowl gaskest as well. Lighty grease gasket when you remove bowl, and it wont dislodge from the grove and get pinched/leak. Another trick.

The 1/2" nylon plug to put in, where you remove the 3/8" hose barb with
1/2" threads at the manifold can be bought at a hardware store....PVC Nylon and teflon tape so no leaks......Key as this is a Suction Line.

Keep us posted.

Pete

robert@rittenhouse
03-05-2009, 12:26 PM
Thanks for the feedback, that's terrific!! I'll be ordering shortly.

One more question, if I may: will this unit that is in the pictures allow me to directly mate one of your D30's to the gear box and motor? Ric says yes... but his Alzheimers is so severe that I never know whether it's safe to trust him or not.

Yes, its the exact same gearbox. The D403GRGI uses a gearbox with part number 9910-KIT1640. That is the normal gearbox used on a D30.

The KIT1640 requires an engine shaft that is a staight 3/4" shaft with a keyway. On the pump side it needs the standard Hypro flange with the 3 bolt holes. This is the flange found on the D30, D50, the D403 and a few more Hypro diaphragm pumps.

Hope that clears it up. We have plenty of inventory.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 01:56 PM
Yes, its the exact same gearbox. The D403GRGI uses a gearbox with part number 9910-KIT1640. That is the normal gearbox used on a D30.

The KIT1640 requires an engine shaft that is a staight 3/4" shaft with a keyway. On the pump side it needs the standard Hypro flange with the 3 bolt holes. This is the flange found on the D30, D50, the D403 and a few more Hypro diaphragm pumps.

Hope that clears it up. We have plenty of inventory.

Thanks again. Here's another question: would my D403 regulator fit onto the D30?

robert@rittenhouse
03-05-2009, 02:14 PM
No, the D403 regulator (part # 9910-GR40) is slightly different than the D30 regulator (part# 9910-GS40GI) and will not easily fit onto the D403. I think the bolt holes line up, but I seem to remember that the bottom of the GS40 overlaps with the head of the pump.

So unfortunately the 9910-GS40GI is needed to switch over your sprayer.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 02:42 PM
No, the D403 regulator (part # 9910-GR40) is slightly different than the D30 regulator (part# 9910-GS40GI) and will not easily fit onto the D403. I think the bolt holes line up, but I seem to remember that the bottom of the GS40 overlaps with the head of the pump.

So unfortunately the 9910-GS40GI is needed to switch over your sprayer.

Being a cheap bugger, is it possible for me to construct an adapter to make it fit?

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 02:58 PM
And to any still following this thread, (Pete) will this "diaphragm pump saver valve" help any?

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=1656

robert@rittenhouse
03-05-2009, 03:02 PM
I guess anything is possible. You could remote mount it too.

Keep in mind there is a lot of pressure at that point.

Ric
03-05-2009, 03:07 PM
And to any still following this thread, (Pete) will this "diaphragm pump saver valve" help any?

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=1656

Whooped

I might not be Pete and I have never used that valve or anything like it. But IMHO common sense tells me it should work. I suspect you would get a lot of air in the lines if your filter gets blocked. But that is a lot easier to fix than replacing diaphragms.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 05:00 PM
Okay, I'm starting to come to some conclusions here... just a few more questions...

If I were to go with a D30, what spare parts should I have as backups? I only use the sprayer 1 day a week, spraying out about 300g each time. Sooo, 30 weeks x 300g = 9,000 annually. (Maybe a round 10,000 gallons per season would cover incidentals...)

Here's the exploded view of the pump:
http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=93

And here's the repair kit that rittenhouse sells (though I don't see the infamous red biscuit in there):

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=100

Thanks.

ToniDavies
03-05-2009, 05:18 PM
Hello I think the infamous red item you are referring to is the seat in the GS40GI regulator. This is a kit we offer for the regulator with the red seat - http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=654

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 05:59 PM
Okay, this is the regulator connection. Is it the same for the D30? I couldn't verify it through pictures...

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 06:00 PM
And another idiot question: how do I get the pump off the gear box? I removed the 4 allen heads that bolt it to the pump... but it's still connected somehow. What do I do to separate the two?

sprayboy
03-05-2009, 06:01 PM
whoop

The only parts i ever keep are the diaphrams, #5-2-of them, 1- #46 and 1 #61.

#61 is the one I have had to change the most, I think because it dry rots from the outside. It still will last longer than a year.

On my old pump that I ran for years, I never changed the valves, could never see wear on them. I would change the o-rings just because they came with the kit.

robert@rittenhouse
03-05-2009, 06:07 PM
The problem with the D30 reg is it sits a little lower, and that pump head right below the flange will get in the way of the reg.

To get the gearbox off, split the gearbox in the middle, to give yourself a little room to work. Then you will see a big gear inside the gearbox that is attached to the pump. That is why the pump is not coming off the gearbox right now.

robert@rittenhouse
03-05-2009, 06:09 PM
Almost forgot. Underneath the gearbox there is another small bolt that goes in the opposite direction of the 4 bolts you circled.

sprayboy
03-05-2009, 06:09 PM
Look for a bolt in the bottom also.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 06:23 PM
The problem with the D30 reg is it sits a little lower, and that pump head right below the flange will get in the way of the reg.

Thanks, Robert.

Do you by any chance have pix of the D30's regulator mount? I googled like crazy for images, but everyone uses the exact same stock photo.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 08:22 PM
Here's the mesh that's in my prefilter. Anyone familiar enough with the different types to ballpark what # mesh this is?

JLWC
03-05-2009, 08:47 PM
whoop your killing me! If you dont know how to fix it than have a professional do it for you . or go buy the d30 and stop whining

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 08:54 PM
whoop your killing me! If you dont know how to fix it than have a professional do it for you . or go buy the d30 and stop whining

I don't remember demanding you subscribe...

As for not knowing how to do something: are you serious? So, as opposed to learning something new - to saving money - to increasing understanding ... you'd rather take every new hurdle in your life to some professional? What a joke. You must make a looooooottttt of money to live like that.

And, for what it's worth, I'd rather ask too many questions than not enough. Through my research I am now aware that I have multiple options. I can go all out, modify the tank AND replace the pump for $529.64. Or I can modify the tank, rebuild the D403 for $303.02 ... or I can take the cheapo approach, do a basic rebuild of the pump and ignore the rest for $193.41.

If my gathering information to make an informed decision constitutes "whining", then I'm a whiner and proud of it.

JLWC
03-05-2009, 09:08 PM
As for not knowing how to do something: are you serious? So, as opposed to learning something new - to saving money - to increasing understanding ... you'd rather take every new hurdle in your life to some professional? What a joke. You must make a looooooottttt of money to live like that

no i just know how to fix it right the first
and if i hit a nerve then my bad :drinkup:

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 09:19 PM
no i just know how to fix it right the first
and if i hit a nerve then my bad :drinkup:

Haha. No worries.

What is it I need to "fix right the first time"? The D403 is a known POS. It works equally poorly when I rebuild it as when the mechanics at Lesco repaired it after it was all of 2 months old...

But your "I know how to fix it right the first time" is bull$hit. You saying you were born with a capacity to accomplish every task on the first try? And you're in lawncare? LOL.

JLWC
03-05-2009, 09:26 PM
i would do this. I can modify the tank, rebuild the D403 for $303.02 ...cut a new bulkhead fitting in the top of the tank use a 3/4 wbh34 the line that goes from the regulator back to the filter take it to the new bulkhead fitting in the top of the tank and get rid of all that return crap and take the intake hose right to the filter cool:clapping:

JLWC
03-05-2009, 09:33 PM
i have a john blue dp74 3 piston pump and that is how mine is run and same diaphragms for 2 1/2 years . until tomorrow that is nock on wood:hammerhead:

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 10:06 PM
i would do this. I can modify the tank, rebuild the D403 for $303.02 ...cut a new bulkhead fitting in the top of the tank use a 3/4 wbh34 the line that goes from the regulator back to the filter take it to the new bulkhead fitting in the top of the tank and get rid of all that return crap and take the intake hose right to the filter cool:clapping:

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.

================================================
Here's what I'm leaning towards right now:

$12 - Move regulator return line back to tank using the existing tubing and buying bulkhead, elbow, and plug.

$120 - Rebuild D403 with all new diaphragms, valves, and o-rings.

$60 - Replace my cracked oil reservoir.

(There are other repairs, but they're needed, regardless of what I choose to do with the pump - such as a new 1/2" super-swivel and a $12 Hypro 3350-82F 80 mesh filter just before the hose reel...etc...)

Total Pump-Specific Costs: $200ish with fluids and incidentals.
With this approach, I save a couple hundred dollars up front, but am still using a pump that recommends diaphragm changes every 500 hours or 3 months, whichever comes first. At $50 for diaphragms and fluid replacement, that's $100 a year in maintenance + the sometimes unexpected downtime from an all-too-common failure in the middle of the day.
================================================

The alternative would be:

$12 - Move regulator return line back to tank using the existing tubing and buying bulkhead, elbow, and plug.

$399 - D30

$10 - Miscellaneous adapters/fittings to fit my existing regulator and tie it all together.

Total Pump-Specific Costs: $430ish with fluids and incidentals.
With this approach, I have still addressed the sprayer's regulator-return-flaw. I will have to spend a couple hundred dollars up front, and have to deal with making it all fit together (not a big deal). In exchange for the upfront investment, I HOPEFULLY never have the damned thing fail on me in the middle of a work day again.
================================================

I'm torn. I absolutely HATE spending money on equipment unless it's absolutely necessary. But on the other hand, the most costly part of the business for me is down-time. The D30 represents $$$ out of my pocket, but the D403 has a history of ridiculous amount of downtime, stress, and cussing (and that track record isn't just from me)...

All that in consideration, what would y'all do?

JLWC
03-05-2009, 10:15 PM
I was looking to buy a cub cadet until i saw the return line going back to the filter i would run the bypass from the regulator to the new bulkhead and the filter bypass to the 3 jet agitation line and some how support the pump

treegal1
03-05-2009, 11:31 PM
I'm torn. I absolutely HATE spending money on equipment unless it's absolutely necessary. But on the other hand, the most costly part of the business for me is down-time. The D30 represents $$$ out of my pocket, but the D403 has a history of ridiculous amount of downtime, stress, and cussing (and that track record isn't just from me)...get out of my head!!! you tell me what you decide to do, ric may have me looking at a D50???or a centrifugal??? but pressure is an issue.............

heritage
03-05-2009, 11:52 PM
And to any still following this thread, (Pete) will this "diaphragm pump saver valve" help any?

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=1656

I never had the need as I am careful and keep suction clear including urea overnight in tank before running pump the next day with no clog/blockage issues.

If you feel you clog the suction line sometimes melting urea OR continue to use a Fine Mesh screen in your Suction line the YES buy it.

Pete

heritage
03-05-2009, 11:54 PM
Hello I think the infamous red item you are referring to is the seat in the GS40GI regulator. This is a kit we offer for the regulator with the red seat - http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=654

Yep the Red "Hockey Puck" Ha Ha. They wear and I change it every year with YOUR kit Toni :)

Good Pressure always!
Thanks,
Pete

heritage
03-05-2009, 11:57 PM
Okay, I'm starting to come to some conclusions here... just a few more questions...

If I were to go with a D30, what spare parts should I have as backups? I only use the sprayer 1 day a week, spraying out about 300g each time. Sooo, 30 weeks x 300g = 9,000 annually. (Maybe a round 10,000 gallons per season would cover incidentals...)

Here's the exploded view of the pump:
http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=93

And here's the repair kit that rittenhouse sells (though I don't see the infamous red biscuit in there):

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/asp/Product.asp?PG=100

Thanks.


Thats what I keep in the truck Whoop as well as the kit Toni Discribes including the Red Biscut....I call em' Hockey Pucks.

Use anti seaze on the 2 bolts in the D-30 Regulator when you remove to change it if you go the D-30 Route.

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-05-2009, 11:58 PM
I never had the need as I am careful and keep suction clear including urea overnight in tank before running pump the next day with no clog/blockage issues.

If you feel you clog the suction line sometimes melting urea OR continue to use a Fine Mesh screen in your Suction line the YES buy it.

Pete

Nah. That I'm aware, I've NEVER clogged. More just looking at ANYTHING out there that will help me avoid downtime. Thanks for all your help, Pete. For the 1% of the time I'm not just horsing around on LS, folks like you make it a priceless experience.

heritage
03-06-2009, 12:00 AM
Whooped

I might not be Pete and I have never used that valve or anything like it. But IMHO common sense tells me it should work. I suspect you would get a lot of air in the lines if your filter gets blocked. But that is a lot easier to fix than replacing diaphragms.

Yes Ric and he would never need to wipe again... Ha Ha

Just Kidding.

He needs a 20 Mesh and Correct his configuration with his lines from and to Pump and he will be in Happy again with that D-403.

Pete

heritage
03-06-2009, 12:02 AM
Here's the mesh that's in my prefilter. Anyone familiar enough with the different types to ballpark what # mesh this is?

40 Mesh.

Pete

heritage
03-06-2009, 12:04 AM
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.

================================================
Here's what I'm leaning towards right now:

$12 - Move regulator return line back to tank using the existing tubing and buying bulkhead, elbow, and plug.

$120 - Rebuild D403 with all new diaphragms, valves, and o-rings.

$60 - Replace my cracked oil reservoir.

(There are other repairs, but they're needed, regardless of what I choose to do with the pump - such as a new 1/2" super-swivel and a $12 Hypro 3350-82F 80 mesh filter just before the hose reel...etc...)

Total Pump-Specific Costs: $200ish with fluids and incidentals.
With this approach, I save a couple hundred dollars up front, but am still using a pump that recommends diaphragm changes every 500 hours or 3 months, whichever comes first. At $50 for diaphragms and fluid replacement, that's $100 a year in maintenance + the sometimes unexpected downtime from an all-too-common failure in the middle of the day.
================================================

The alternative would be:

$12 - Move regulator return line back to tank using the existing tubing and buying bulkhead, elbow, and plug.

$399 - D30

$10 - Miscellaneous adapters/fittings to fit my existing regulator and tie it all together.

Total Pump-Specific Costs: $430ish with fluids and incidentals.
With this approach, I have still addressed the sprayer's regulator-return-flaw. I will have to spend a couple hundred dollars up front, and have to deal with making it all fit together (not a big deal). In exchange for the upfront investment, I HOPEFULLY never have the damned thing fail on me in the middle of a work day again.
================================================

I'm torn. I absolutely HATE spending money on equipment unless it's absolutely necessary. But on the other hand, the most costly part of the business for me is down-time. The D30 represents $$$ out of my pocket, but the D403 has a history of ridiculous amount of downtime, stress, and cussing (and that track record isn't just from me)...

All that in consideration, what would y'all do?

Do The Leaning Towards and SKIP the Alternative Whoop.

Pete

heritage
03-06-2009, 12:09 AM
i would do this. I can modify the tank, rebuild the D403 for $303.02 ...cut a new bulkhead fitting in the top of the tank use a 3/4 wbh34 the line that goes from the regulator back to the filter take it to the new bulkhead fitting in the top of the tank and get rid of all that return crap and take the intake hose right to the filter cool:clapping:

Yes he could go with 3/4 hose BUT he will then need a different Hose fitting that threads to the Pump Bypass. Just keep it SIMPLE and use the existing hose and send to new bulkhead.

If you take the Intake hose "Right to the Filter" how will you mount the filter to the existing mount? Keep it simple I always say :)

Pete

JLWC
03-06-2009, 12:33 AM
a 6 inch pipe niple

heritage
03-06-2009, 12:33 AM
Haha. No worries.

What is it I need to "fix right the first time"? The D403 is a known POS. It works equally poorly when I rebuild it as when the mechanics at Lesco repaired it after it was all of 2 months old...

But your "I know how to fix it right the first time" is bull$hit. You saying you were born with a capacity to accomplish every task on the first try? And you're in lawncare? LOL.

Whoop keep in mind that the 403 is not a bad pump when configured correctly as the Owners Manual will show how to run the Lines to and From pump.

The Lesco or Cub Cadet desigener of the Cheesy Bypass return to suction line is the issue that is your grief.

Again I bought a 100 gal Lesco with a D-30 and it HAD the same configuration as yours has with the 403.

My D-30 on my Agrotec 300 Gal had the lines plumbed as I suggest to you to re-configure to.

The Filter was upgraded to a 16 mesh TeeJet (same as on my agrotec) BUT the external Diaphram on my Lesco 100 gal D-30 would run VERY ERRATIC and make it very tough on the 2 internal Diaghprams.

It was running like the filter was Sucking Air.

So I took all of the suction lines apart from Tank TO Pump and re-teflon taped all and re-assembled.

Guess what...Same Problem.

Then I realized that the water moving through the 3/8 hose from bypass pump to the manifold was moving FASTER than the water moving through the 1" suction line which caused CAVITATION.

I plugged the manifold with a plug and then added a longer 3/8" hose to the bypass at the pump and just loosely stuck in the top fillwell of the tank as a test to prove or dis-prove what I thought about the Cavatation issues a Wa-La!!!

The External diaghpram was smooth and STEADY!! Problem solved!!!

Think about this a different way....The fluid moving into the suction line from the pump bypass (your stock setup now) is changing speed and flow as you spray and shutoff the spray gun.

This change has a direct effect on the Flow/Pulse of the water entering the pump from the Suction Line and will AFFECT THE CHECK VALVES in a negative way....Now fluid that is supposed to be sucked in thru the valves by your Internal Diaghprams, closes when it should be open AND the DIAGHPRAMS TAKE A BEATING.

I still say you will like the 403 when you FIX the Line Config.

Long Winded but for a good cause.

Be Cheep and just re-build, re-filter mesh 20, and re-configure the lines buddy.

Pete

heritage
03-06-2009, 12:36 AM
a 6 inch pipe niple

That IS what to do.

Very Nice.

Pete

JLWC
03-06-2009, 12:44 AM
get rid of the manifold and put a 1 inch 6 inch long pipe niple and then use he u bolts on the ridged pipe

JLWC
03-06-2009, 12:46 AM
that's not simple?

heritage
03-06-2009, 12:47 AM
get rid of the manifold and put a 1 inch 6 inch long pipe niple and then use he u bolts on the ridged pipe

Yes EXACTLY and then a nice smooth water flo and stronger than plastic too.

Pete

JLWC
03-06-2009, 12:54 AM
i agree on your plumbing that is the way my wyle sprayer is set up and no problems

heritage
03-06-2009, 01:00 AM
i agree on your plumbing that is the way my wyle sprayer is set up and no problems

Yes that the way Hypro says to do it. They KNOW :)

I still wonder WHY the Lesco/Cub Cadet people chose to run it their way......

Whoop will LOVE his sprayer when he makes the changes.


Pete

JLWC
03-06-2009, 01:07 AM
check this out there is a part in there on the lines kind of

JLWC
03-06-2009, 01:08 AM
on page 8 through 11

RigglePLC
03-06-2009, 12:28 PM
Whoop, what pressure are you using? Excess pressure is hard on the pump. I use about 100 pounds. About the filter. The picture looks like about a 100 or 200 mesh to me. About 100 to 200 openings per square inch. I melt urea. I use a 100 mesh prefilter inside the tank, and 325 mesh in front of the pump. Myself I think you should get rid of the filter on the pressure side near the reel. Filters belong on the suction side. You don't want restriction on the pressure side. One other thing--I prefer to use i-inch clear vinyl tubing on the suction side (no braid). The reason is--you can see the flow and spot air bubbles or debris. Secondly, if the vinyl tubeing shows any signs of collapsing then you know there is a suction restriction somewhere (usually a clogged filter).
Also I calculated that my pump (Hypro D252) pumps out about 20,000 gallons before I change the diaphragms only, at the end of the year.

RigglePLC
03-06-2009, 12:54 PM
Also, Whoop.
The agitation nozzles at the bottom of the tank often plug up with debris--particularly if you use pendimethalin. Very hard on the pump. No restriction allowed here. Pull them out and clean them up good. It is best to replace these with agitation nozzles that can pass any pieces of debris that get by the filter. Try using agitation-booster type nozzles. (With BIG openings). And put three or four all aimed in the same direction. They will cause your liquid solution to swirl, giving you better agitation. I tried to find proper nozzles on Rittenhouse--but couldn't find them--maybe Bob Rittenhouse can help.

Ric
03-06-2009, 01:43 PM
I never liked the pressure regulator on the D 30 and added a second one in the agitation line side of the manifold.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-06-2009, 01:49 PM
Whoop, what pressure are you using? Excess pressure is hard on the pump. I use about 100 pounds.
I can't say for sure, as my gauge has never worked right. But it's low pressure. I don't think I ever use more than like 30psi (maybe even less than that)... Enough to run 2gpm out the end at a steady rate, but not have it blasting out of the nozzle...
About the filter. The picture looks like about a 100 or 200 mesh to me. About 100 to 200 openings per square inch. I melt urea. I use a 100 mesh prefilter inside the tank, and 325 mesh in front of the pump. Myself I think you should get rid of the filter on the pressure side near the reel. Filters belong on the suction side. You don't want restriction on the pressure side.
I have no filter inside the tank currently. And, as of yet, there's no filter on the outgoing side of the pump, either... just that one clear, T-Filter.

So now I'm getting mixed ideas about what's best. Obviously everyone has their own methods, and I just want to make the best decision possible. Pete says to run the widest mesh possible, so that I don't choke the flow. You're taking the opposite approach... It seems logical to me to have as little sediment move through the pump as possible - to preserve the longevity of the diaphragms, but not to the point that it risks bottle-necking... Also, earlier in the thread someone implied that restriction on the pressure side was irrelevant. So I'm confused...
One other thing--I prefer to use i-inch clear vinyl tubing on the suction side (no braid). The reason is--you can see the flow and spot air bubbles or debris. Secondly, if the vinyl tubeing shows any signs of collapsing then you know there is a suction restriction somewhere (usually a clogged filter).
That's a great idea. I've been thinking "I've never clogged", but realized that I wouldn't really know, because there's no way those reinforced lines would collapse...
Also I calculated that my pump (Hypro D252) pumps out about 20,000 gallons before I change the diaphragms only, at the end of the year.
If I can achieve that type of performance, I'll be ecstatic.
The agitation nozzles at the bottom of the tank often plug up with debris...
Good to know. I've never seen them NOT blasting away... but I'm all for pulling it apart and taking a look.
Try using agitation-booster type nozzles. (With BIG openings). And put three or four all aimed in the same direction. They will cause your liquid solution to swirl, giving you better agitation.
Smart. I'll have to figure out how I can redesign that. Would it serve any purpose to relocate the agitation assembly to one side (or a corner, even), as opposed to right in the middle?

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-06-2009, 01:51 PM
get rid of the manifold and put a 1 inch 6 inch long pipe niple and then use he u bolts on the ridged pipe

Great idea. I'll implement that and just yank the "T" out of there entirely.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-06-2009, 01:55 PM
Whoop keep in mind that the 403 is not a bad pump when configured correctly as the Owners Manual will show how to run the Lines to and From pump.
I hope like crazy that you're right!
Then I realized that the water moving through the 3/8 hose from bypass pump to the manifold was moving FASTER than the water moving through the 1" suction line which caused CAVITATION.
Okay, that makes sense.
I plugged the manifold with a plug and then added a longer 3/8" hose to the bypass at the pump and just loosely stuck in the top fillwell of the tank as a test to prove or dis-prove what I thought about the Cavatation issues a Wa-La!!!

The External diaghpram was smooth and STEADY!! Problem solved!!!
Awesome! That's the type of magic I'm hoping to work.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-06-2009, 02:18 PM
I use a 100 mesh prefilter inside the tank, and 325 mesh in front of the pump.

Sorry for the multiple posts... I just keep thinking about this concept and it makes a lot of sense. Normally when I'm mixing, I see a fair amount of the urea get pulled up into my filter and slowly dissolve away. Lesco, in fact, explained that "the way to know when it's dissolved, is when the filter is clear again".

It seems to me that putting a prefilter on at the suction, and thus: letting more of it dissolve in the tank instead of forcing the pump itself to do the hard work - makes a lot more sense and would go a long ways towards preserving my pump...

I'm not seeing end-line filters on rittenhouse, and dultmeier doesn't seem to have a fit for my lines, either. Where did you acquire yours?

RigglePLC
03-06-2009, 02:39 PM
You didn't ask--but--I suggest spraying with the white nozzle. You get the same flow rate. The openings are big so you get a larger droplet that does not drift. And it hardly ever clogs or gets debris caught in the nozzle--almost everything passes through. The green nozzle is almost as good.

Get a new pressure guage.

I am not sure where is the best place to aim the agitation in a square tank.

Regarding the filters. Get a filter rated at about 10 gallons per minute. You want one with a large surface area so it will not plug right away, but will pass many unrestricted gallons before too much debris accumulates. If you melt urea perhaps you need two filters: Large mesh to stop the big stuff and then smaller to trap the fine particles and protect the pump. (And protect the pressure relief valve). You will seldom have to clean the gun nozzle.
Hope this helps. Let us know how you come out.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-06-2009, 02:45 PM
You didn't ask--but--I suggest spraying with the white nozzle. You get the same flow rate. The openings are big so you get a larger droplet that does not drift. And it hardly ever clogs or gets debris caught in the nozzle--almost everything passes through. The green nozzle is almost as good.
Good to know. I've only ever used the yellow 2gpm that mine came with. I'll check those other ones out. Do you happen to know if the Teejet nozzles are interchangeable with the chemlawn gun ones?
Regarding the filters. Get a filter rated at about 10 gallons per minute. You want one with a large surface area so it will not plug right away, but will pass many unrestricted gallons before too much debris accumulates.
Would it make sense to actually have the agitator partially blast against the prefilter, so as to keep it at least partially unobstructed?

RigglePLC
03-06-2009, 03:02 PM
OK Whoop--I guess I have some dirt farmer blood in my genetics--I improvised. This after many problems with urea caught in my filter. Mrs. Frustration is the true mother of invention. I am not sure what the supply opening looks like inside the Space-saver tank. In my sprayer I have a short pipe in the tank. I covered the opening with a stainless steel screen from an old filter, bent to fit and locked it on with a screw clamp. 2. Then I covered the a wide area with some fiberglass window screen, using a large piece about 12 inches square so it would not plug with debris. The fiberglass screen is held in place by gluing it to the tank with silicone aquarium sealer or silicone tub sealer. I found that Gorilla Glue also works well. (Wear gloves). Of course, that is only possible if you can reach the bottom of the tank. The plan is to prevent the urea from getting out of the tank--by whatever means neccessary.
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx

Ideally Rittenhouse would come up with a plastic in-tank pre filter--that could be snapped out to clean, even if you didn't have long arms. What about it Tony?

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-06-2009, 03:16 PM
...I am not sure what the supply opening looks like inside the Space-saver tank...

Here's what it looks like in there.

RigglePLC
03-06-2009, 03:37 PM
Whoop we need to get a life. I do anyhow.

I am not sure what that 1 1/2 inch hose is for. I suggest work a screen underneath the intake opening. Bend it up seal with silicone, and hold it tight to the pipe tee with a screw clamp (2"), or a few zip ties. If it is threaded maybe you can turn it sideways and screw in something actually intended as a filter. Something like a well point for example. Or maybe some PVC pipe with thin slits cut into it. Like the irrigation people use when pumping pond water.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-06-2009, 04:00 PM
Whoop we need to get a life. I do anyhow.
Haha. In a couple more weeks...
I am not sure what that 1 1/2 inch hose is for.
That's my intake. It pipes out the top of the tank.The port going out the side right there is just a drain hole.

heritage
03-06-2009, 05:42 PM
Hi Whoop.

Do not put a filter inside the tank.

Get a 20 Mesh filter for the suction line. (flow is the key)

Using the large mesh I DONT ever have and issue with the Diaghprams OR THE Valves.

The pressure side filter 50-80 mesh 2nd filter is the way to go for non-clog nozzles. Yes you could run the White as Riggle suggests BUT you will need more flow/pressure as it is a 4gpm nozzle. It's up to you.

Keep in mind ANY filter on the pressure side will NOT have an effect on the Diaghprams, as the pressure regulater BYPASSES any extra/flow through the Dedicated bypass line.

Pre-Melt or add a strainer bag from Gregson Clark for your urea. WHOEVER told you to melt in tank and run pump until you can see through the clear filter mesh Does not understand how BAD this is for the Diaghprams.

Flow ALWAYS. Clog strain NEVER. Run it Dry...NO PROBLEM.


One thing I need to correct you on is that Your current bypass hose to suction line is in fact 1/2" Dia. I just looked at the one I pulled off when I made the upgrade.

So order a Bulkhead that has 3/4" threads, and also order a hose barb with 3/4" threads and 1/2" hose barb....You will be golden.

The words I will use now I usually am VERY skeptical, but from 20 years of EXPEARANCE with this stuff.

Trust Me.

Smile,

Pete

RigglePLC
03-06-2009, 11:00 PM
Whoop, I am not sure if aiming the agitation at the intake would help. I do not like the idea of the pump higher than the liquid--don't you have problems with loss of prime, if air enters the system or the tank runs dry?

Pete is probably correct. However it should be easy to rotate that pipe tee, so you can screw a well point or 24 inch slitted pipe irrigation pond filter into the intake, (as a pre-filter). Use a short piece of rubber tubing to allow for easier clearance and angle as needed. It will not be restrictive if you get a filter that can pass 20 gallons per minute. Make sure it is easy to remove if it needs cleaning. This way the urea never plugs the filter.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200321307_200321307
I could not find the inexpensive plastic version link.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-09-2009, 01:26 AM
Okay, sorry for the delay. This weekend was my 10th wedding anniversary, so the Mrs. and I left town for a couple days (and poor LawnTamer had to watch all 4 of my kids)...
Pre-Melt or add a strainer bag from Gregson Clark for your urea. WHOEVER told you to melt in tank and run pump until you can see through the clear filter mesh Does not understand how BAD this is for the Diaghprams.
I have the filter basket I use to initially dissolve the urea, but this is obviously not doing 100% of it. When LawnTamer bought his, they actually told him he could dump his first bag or two straight into the bottom of his tank and THEN start straining the remaining bags... I never did that because it sounded foolish... (not that it's apparently saving me any hassle, lol.)
So order a Bulkhead that has 3/4" threads, and also order a hose barb with 3/4" threads and 1/2" hose barb....You will be golden.
Good catch, thanks.
Trust Me.
Will do. Don't disappoint. Haha.
...don't you have problems with loss of prime, if air enters the system or the tank runs dry?
Nope. NEVER lost prime. Never clogged, either, insofar as I'm aware.
...so you can screw a well point or 24 inch slitted pipe irrigation pond filter into the intake, (as a pre-filter)...
I'll look into that. To start, I'm just gonna run the bypass and rebuild the pump and see how things fare. If that proves insufficient, then we'll like into more agressive modifications.

I plan to order my supplies tomorrow. I'll follow up with my changes and the results. Much thanks to ALL of you for the feedback, patience, and willingness to help out.

heritage
03-09-2009, 07:45 AM
Okay, sorry for the delay. This weekend was my 10th wedding anniversary, so the Mrs. and I left town for a couple days (and poor LawnTamer had to watch all 4 of my kids)...

I have the filter basket I use to initially dissolve the urea, but this is obviously not doing 100% of it. When LawnTamer bought his, they actually told him he could dump his first bag or two straight into the bottom of his tank and THEN start straining the remaining bags... I never did that because it sounded foolish... (not that it's apparently saving me any hassle, lol.)

Good catch, thanks.

Will do. Don't disappoint. Haha.

Nope. NEVER lost prime. Never clogged, either, insofar as I'm aware.

I'll look into that. To start, I'm just gonna run the bypass and rebuild the pump and see how things fare. If that proves insufficient, then we'll like into more agressive modifications.

I plan to order my supplies tomorrow. I'll follow up with my changes and the results. Much thanks to ALL of you for the feedback, patience, and willingness to help out.

Great Happy Anniversary!!!

The reason we dont see pre filters in our big spray tanks at the end of the suction line inside the tank, is IF there is a clog issue, How do you access the filter thru a full tank of Pesticides????????

In an 8-12 gal Perma Green tank, yeat sure, put on the LONG green gloves, reach down in the tank and pull it off to clean , then re-attach.

How on earth do you do that with a 3-4 foot deep tank???

Keep informed on your progress Whoop.

Spring almost here on the East Coast.......Yippee outside at last :)

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-09-2009, 11:14 AM
Great Happy Anniversary!!!
Thanks!
The reason we dont see pre filters in our big spray tanks at the end of the suction line inside the tank, is IF there is a clog issue, How do you access the filter thru a full tank of Pesticides????????
Hadn't thought about that...
Spring almost here on the East Coast.......Yippee outside at last :)
I thought we were there... but woke up to 2" of fresh snow this morning with another 2-4 scheduled to fall today...

Laner
03-10-2009, 08:03 AM
Whoop -I just started reading this and I am very interested in how this all turns out. My I have the space-saver setup also and my pressure gauge has never worked. They even replaced for me and the new one didn't work either. I have only ran pesticides in mine, so I have never plugged. I would be interested to see pics and list of parts when you are done with the upgrades.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-10-2009, 11:12 AM
...My I have the space-saver setup also and my pressure gauge has never worked. They even replaced for me and the new one didn't work either. ...

You know what? I'm not even convinced that stupid regulator works right. I've talked to multiple owners who have all said they have to regulate their flow through the opening and closing of the agitation cutoff valve...

I'll keep you posted.

LawnTamer
03-10-2009, 11:18 AM
You know what? I'm not even convinced that stupid regulator works right. I've talked to multiple owners who have all said they have to regulate their flow through the opening and closing of the agitation cutoff valve...

I'll keep you posted.

That's how I do it! The big red knob has never done anything. When I bought my Spacesaver, (my first skid) I asked the Lesco rep what it did, he said, "Don't worry about that, it never works anyway."

I thought, 'Then why is it there?' I have played with it a bunch, and as far as I can tell, he was right.

cod8825
03-10-2009, 11:32 AM
Whoop:

When you get that done please do send a picture as I have a Lesco space saver and am really interested in the finished picture so I see how it looks.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-10-2009, 11:46 AM
Whoop:

When you get that done please do send a picture as I have a Lesco space saver and am really interested in the finished picture so I see how it looks.

When I get the updates completed, I'll post all the pix and info to this thread.

heritage
03-10-2009, 12:51 PM
Whoop -I just started reading this and I am very interested in how this all turns out. My I have the space-saver setup also and my pressure gauge has never worked. They even replaced for me and the new one didn't work either. I have only ran pesticides in mine, so I have never plugged. I would be interested to see pics and list of parts when you are done with the upgrades.

Laner.

Go run the pump now.

CLOSE THE VALVE 100% that goes to the Jet Agitation in the Tank.

Now set the regulator and watch the needle pressure gauge work PERFECTLY.

The bypass hose from the PUMP to the Suction line will flow the excess as designed.

Re-Route The Pump Bypass to a bulkhead in top of tank and plug the fitting going into suction line in the near future.


NOW set the pressure of the Guage 100 PSI HIGHER than your desired spray pressure.

Next open the Valve to the Jet agitation slowly UNTIL you are at your desired pressure 100 psi's Lower.

This is HOW you do it sir.

Fine "Tune" your pressure after you have done all of the above with the Jet agitation valve for 5-20 psi adjustments....Not the regulator valve.


That system is a PITA......

Pete

heritage
03-10-2009, 12:57 PM
Laner.

Go run the pump now.

CLOSE THE VALVE 100% that goes to the Jet Agitation in the Tank.

Now set the regulator and watch the needle pressure gauge work PERFECTLY.

The bypass hose from the PUMP to the Suction line will flow the excess as designed.

Re-Route The Pump Bypass to a bulkhead in top of tank and plug the fitting going into suction line in the near future.



NOW set the pressure of the Guage 100 PSI HIGHER than your desired spray pressure.

Next open the Valve to the Jet agitation slowly UNTIL you are at your desired pressure 100 psi's Lower.

This is HOW you do it sir.

Fine "Tune" your pressure after you have done all of the above with the Jet agitation valve for 5-20 psi adjustments....Not the regulator valve.


That system is a PITA......

Pete

ALL YOU FOLKS READING THIS,

Why didn't your SALESMAN show you how to use this system properly???

I am suprised about this.

Enjoy your NOW FUNCTIONING REGULATORS Folks :)

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-10-2009, 01:09 PM
...Why didn't your SALESMAN show you how to use this system properly???

My money's on this answer: BECAUSE LESCO SUCKS. I have NEVER met a knowledgeable Lesco employee.

Thanks for the good information... yet again.

heritage
03-10-2009, 07:44 PM
My money's on this answer: BECAUSE LESCO SUCKS. I have NEVER met a knowledgeable Lesco employee.

Thanks for the good information... yet again.

Anytime Good Sir.

Enjoy better spraying performance this season :)

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-10-2009, 07:50 PM
Enjoy better spraying performance this season.

Amen to that. This premature evacuation is killing me.

Laner
03-10-2009, 08:18 PM
ALL YOU FOLKS READING THIS,

Why didn't your SALESMAN show you how to use this system properly???

I am suprised about this.

Enjoy your NOW FUNCTIONING REGULATORS Folks :)

Pete

He tried, but couldn't get it to work either. We didn't have but 10 gal of water in it when we started it up.....thought may have not been enough to cycle thru the system........At least that is what he thought.
This is my first skid and learning a lot from this thread.
Thanks everyone for the great info. Glad there are people willing to share their knowledge/experience.

heritage
03-10-2009, 08:54 PM
He tried, but couldn't get it to work either. We didn't have but 10 gal of water in it when we started it up.....thought may have not been enough to cycle thru the system........At least that is what he thought.
This is my first skid and learning a lot from this thread.
Thanks everyone for the great info. Glad there are people willing to share their knowledge/experience.

Glad to help.

IF you have an air-gap in the suction to-pump, and the pressure regulator is set too high, often it won't be able to prime without loosing up the pressure regulator, so the air can easily escape.

On the D-30 regulator you just flip up the handle and it's unloaded. I think on the D-403 you must Unlock and then unscrew the Regulator to unload the spring pressure to let air pass.

Put 20 gallons of water in the tank and try again as I discribed.

Needle should function once you have water flow, and then turn pressure regulator up again :)

Make 100% sure that the Valve to the agitation jet is closed when you do this.

Pete

heritage
03-12-2009, 03:34 AM
How you guys making out so far?

Pete

cod8825
03-12-2009, 09:52 AM
We'll I just had the pump rebuilt from last year and am going to order the pieces for the pump will have to what a bit as it is time to put down first round of products. After I am done next week I will build the outfit.

Thanks Whoop, Laner, and Heritage

Matt

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-12-2009, 10:49 AM
How you guys making out so far?

Rittenhouse just shipped yesterday, and I can't seem to track my Dultmeier parts online...

I have the Home and Garden Show here this weekend, so even if the parts show, I won't be touching my pump till next week...

Ric
03-12-2009, 11:19 AM
Whooped

I rebuilt a D 30, replacing many expensive parts. Of course it started out with a simple diaphram change. By the time I got it running perfect I had darn near the cost of a new pump. Yet I still have a well used pump that won't last as long as a new one. Of course this is the slow suck where you reach a point of no return. You must spend just one more time because you have too much money in it.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-12-2009, 12:34 PM
... Yet I still have a well used pump that won't last as long as a new one. Of course this is the slow suck where you reach a point of no return. You must spend just one more time because you have too much money in it...

I know where you're coming from. I do this to myself frequently. :cry: I'm pursuing the rebuild for 2 reasons:

**I'm putting faith in Pete's promises that I'll actually have a reliable pump for the first time EVER. :clapping:

**And replacing the pump will probably require some re-frabricating of the whole setup, and I'm a bit late to the table to really take on those unknowns (and having no local parts supplier) with apps just around the corner.

======================

I figure, worst case scenario, it fails in 2 months and I wasted another couple hundred bucks. If so, call it another lesson learned :hammerhead: , and I'll order the D30...

heritage
03-12-2009, 07:27 PM
I know where you're coming from. I do this to myself frequently. :cry: I'm pursuing the rebuild for 2 reasons:

**I'm putting faith in Pete's promises that I'll actually have a reliable pump for the first time EVER. :clapping:

**And replacing the pump will probably require some re-frabricating of the whole setup, and I'm a bit late to the table to really take on those unknowns (and having no local parts supplier) with apps just around the corner.

======================

I figure, worst case scenario, it fails in 2 months and I wasted another couple hundred bucks. If so, call it another lesson learned :hammerhead: , and I'll order the D30...

Whoop,

If it fails in two months after the upgrades I will send one of my D-30's to you with a fresh rebuild, and you can send me the D-403 with a fresh rebuild.

Pete

cod8825
03-12-2009, 08:15 PM
Heritage I have a D403 also and a brand new pump and am going to do the same thing to my tank next weekend as Whoop is can I send you my D403

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-12-2009, 08:17 PM
Whoop,

If it fails in two months after the upgrades I will send one of my D-30's to you with a fresh rebuild, and you can send me the D-403 with a fresh rebuild.

Pete

Can I get that in writing?... oh, wait...

heritage
03-12-2009, 09:45 PM
One other thing to all having an issue with the pressure GAUGE, not working on the D-403.


Before you do the following, CLOSE all Valves (2) to the hose reel and Jet Agitation FIRST.


I Just Read thru the Hypro Manual and the Regulator on the D-403, has a "Pressure Bypass" which should be in the correct position for all to work properly. (D-30's don't have this type) (D-252's also have the bypass valve like the D-403....... I have used the D-252 pump)

What I before called a:

"Locking device (Red ) directly below the adjustment knob" is in fact a Valve for the bypass.

When you start the engine, you want no resistance from the pump, So turn the Red valve to the "Bypass" side. (the pressure gauge will read 0 in this position, even with adjustmenk Knob turned up for higher pressure)

After the engine is warm, TURN the bypass all the way oppisate the bypass position to the "Pressure" side, and then adjust the RED Pressure Adjustment Knob 100 psi higher that desired spray pressure at the pump.

THEN it's time to SLOWLY open the on/off Valve on the pressure side (not the RED bypass), that goes to the Jet Agitation in the "Bottom" of the tank, until you have desired pressure.


We should have a Pump Course, when we go for our Re-Certification Credits for our Pesticide License's, Don't you think???

Pete

heritage
03-12-2009, 09:47 PM
Heritage I have a D403 also and a brand new pump and am going to do the same thing to my tank next weekend as Whoop is can I send you my D403

You won't need to....The D-403 will be fine after the upgrades.

Enjoy :)

Pete

Ric
03-13-2009, 11:45 AM
Pete

I have never fooled with the D 403. But as stated before in this thread I added a second Regulator off the Agitation side of my D 30. I set the regulators so the Factor one is 5 to 10 PSI higher than the added regulator. This way I get agitation full time and if the pump pressure goes up the Factory Regulator dumps the extra PSI. I hope I made this clear.

heritage
03-13-2009, 09:00 PM
Pete

I have never fooled with the D 403. But as stated before in this thread I added a second Regulator off the Agitation side of my D 30. I set the regulators so the Factor one is 5 to 10 PSI higher than the added regulator. This way I get agitation full time and if the pump pressure goes up the Factory Regulator dumps the extra PSI. I hope I made this clear.

Hi Ric,

That sounds like a good idea.

If in fact after Whoop makes the upgrades, and his 403 still takes a crap within 2 months, I will swap a D-30 with him and then Take the "Stock" Regulator off the 403, and put a nipple in it's place. Then run that thru a Regulator like you have.

Thanks for your feedback Ric.

Pete

Ric
03-14-2009, 11:41 AM
Hi Ric,

That sounds like a good idea.

If in fact after Whoop makes the upgrades, and his 403 still takes a crap within 2 months, I will swap a D-30 with him and then Take the "Stock" Regulator off the 403, and put a nipple in it's place. Then run that thru a Regulator like you have.

Thanks for your feedback Ric.

Pete

Pete

Your are taking a big CHANCE. Whooped can mess up a 2 car funeral. :nono:

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-14-2009, 12:00 PM
Pete

Your are taking a big CHANCE. Whooped can mess up a 2 car funeral. :nono:

We can put that to the test shortly, as a guy your age can't be planning on consuming oxygen much longer. :laugh:

heritage
03-14-2009, 07:31 PM
No, the D403 regulator (part # 9910-GR40) is slightly different than the D30 regulator (part# 9910-GS40GI) and will not easily fit onto the D403. I think the bolt holes line up, but I seem to remember that the bottom of the GS40 overlaps with the head of the pump.

So unfortunately the 9910-GS40GI is needed to switch over your sprayer.

Hi Robert,

The Regulator on the D-30 WILL work on the D-403!!!

Whoop would need the GS40GI Remote Mounting Kit, 1 Flange PN 9910-450145 (hypro part number and same used on D-30, D-50 AND D-403)

He would need a Regulator 9910-GS40GI (the one used on the D-30)

He would "Mount" it seperate from the pump and run a 1/2" spray hose from the flange nipple to the remote regulator.

He would have a GREAT Upgrade, with a GREAT Regulator.

Look into that Robert. The Hypro manuals are on your website with all the parts available at your store.

Pete

RigglePLC
03-14-2009, 07:50 PM
Good advice Pete, I have the D252, and I have to turn the red "control knob" To either dump all the flow or rotate it the other way to build up to the dialed-in pressure. At least thats the way I used to do it. Now I use a spraying systems pressure regulator valve with stainless steel valve seats (about $65)--far superior to the plastic seats that Hypro uses. A hose to the tank bypasses excess pressure. I use a valve and same hose to bypass the flow to the tank when no pressure is needed, or if I am agitating only.

heritage
03-14-2009, 08:10 PM
Good advice Pete, I have the D252, and I have to turn the red "control knob" To either dump all the flow or rotate it the other way to build up to the dialed-in pressure. At least thats the way I used to do it. Now I use a spraying systems pressure regulator valve with stainless steel valve seats (about $65)--far superior to the plastic seats that Hypro uses. A hose to the tank bypasses excess pressure. I use a valve and same hose to bypass the flow to the tank when no pressure is needed, or if I am agitating only.

Thanks Riggle. :)

On the D-403 you have to turn the Red Paddle to Pressure Gauge for pressure and to Regulator Bypass nipple to Bypass.

Enjoy Spring!!!

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-17-2009, 11:18 PM
Got part-way through the job today. Dultmeier parts have been here for days, but still waiting on Rittenhouse (ordered the same day)...

So I used 3 cans of brake cleaner and a whole roll of shop towels to clean all the spooge off my tank from the leaks, put in the new baffle and rerouted the bypass line into the tank, removed the "T" where the bypass used to run, added my new super-swivel, and bolted my tank into the new truck...

Once the Rittenhouse order arrives, I'll assemble the pump and gearbox, bolt it back on, put all the hoses back on, and add the pre-hose filter...

Then I'll take pix.

cod8825
03-18-2009, 12:04 AM
Whoop that is exciting I am going to order the parts I hope this weekend. I will need to get them done before April 15th as thats when we typically start the first round.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-19-2009, 11:34 PM
Alright. I finished my bids a little early today and used the rest of the day to rebuild and reassemble the pump/gearbox/motor. The only things I have left to do are repair my sight glass, fill the pump with oil, and put the strainer right before the hose (still figuring out the logistics of that one)...

Does anyone feel that it would be unwise to have my strainer tie right into my Super-Swivel? Seems like the most logical place (and the only location that it won't be suspended freely)...

I hope to have it all said and done in the morning, and if I do - I'll get pix posted and all that good stuff...

RigglePLC
03-19-2009, 11:45 PM
Whoop--tie the strainer to the swivel. but you may not have clearance to rotate it so you can screw it in--and therefore would need to put it on a short piece of hose.

However i have not changed my mind--I think the strainers belong in the suction side of the system. The Hypro diagrams never show a strainer on the pressure side. Most strainers are not designed for pressure. Could leak or blow out at high pressure.

In any case, I hope it works OK. Let us know!

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-19-2009, 11:51 PM
Whoop--tie the strainer to the swivel. but you may not have clearance to rotate it so you can screw it in--and therefore would need to put it on a short piece of hose.

However i have not changed my mind--I think the strainers belong in the suction side of the system. The Hypro diagrams never show a strainer on the pressure side. Most strainers are not designed for pressure. Could leak or blow out at high pressure.

In any case, I hope it works OK. Let us know!

Thanks for the input. I bought a 150psi strainer, so it ought to be able to take the pressure without much trouble... As for before the pump: I've already got one there, so it seems kinda redundant to put another one just a couple inches later...

We'll see how it goes.

heritage
03-20-2009, 01:42 AM
Alright. I finished my bids a little early today and used the rest of the day to rebuild and reassemble the pump/gearbox/motor. The only things I have left to do are repair my sight glass, fill the pump with oil, and put the strainer right before the hose (still figuring out the logistics of that one)...

Does anyone feel that it would be unwise to have my strainer tie right into my Super-Swivel? Seems like the most logical place (and the only location that it won't be suspended freely)...

I hope to have it all said and done in the morning, and if I do - I'll get pix posted and all that good stuff...

Great Whoop.

Thats where I put my fine strainer........on the swivel. I have a Male quick Disconnect threaded into the swivel and a female quick disconnect threaded into the output side of the strainer. A male quick disconnect on the input side of the strainer.

I ONLY use this secondary strainer when I do pre in beds and Turf apps with the hose. This for me is always under 60 psi apps, and the strainer is rated for 150psi.

Remove the second strainer for all your Tree/Ornamental sprays.

Let's see those pic's :)

Pete

Ric
03-20-2009, 11:14 AM
Hey Pete

I will bet Whooped's mommy didn't hold his hand potty training him as much as you have on this pump issue. :dizzy: But then with Whooped it is a matter of :hammerhead:

heritage
03-20-2009, 09:59 PM
Hey Pete

I will bet Whooped's mommy didn't hold his hand potty training him as much as you have on this pump issue. :dizzy: But then with Whooped it is a matter of :hammerhead:

Ric,

You do have a sense of humor :)

IF that pump was set up right from the start (lesco/cub cadet) I feel he and others would have a more reliable piece of equipment.........I think we have made some big improvements to whoops "stock" setup.

You too understand Ric as a Teacher, that sharing good information is better for ALL of us.

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-20-2009, 11:18 PM
Okay, I just got in... and forgot to take pix. Well, that's not true. I went to take pix and the battery was dead (my kids love the feature that allows them to distort their smiles)... So I went in and charged the camera... and never came back for it. Got distracted with too many other projects...

Everything is running, though my bypass isn't doing a damned thing. It's either on or off - there's no regulating the pressure... which is the way it's been since day one, near as I can tell.

Ignoring the regulator dysfunction, however, things are operating. I was able to thread the second filter on without any trouble, and it did a good job of catching much of the debris that was in the bottom of my tank.

I'll get some pix tomorrow, but after 12 hours of fixing crap, I'm done for the day.

As for you, Ric, as the song so eloquently states, "Ain't too proud to beg." I'd much rather have Pete hold my hand than "be a man" and botch it 26 times because I wouldn't stop and ask for directions. Now go back to your tapioca pudding and adult diapers. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Ric
03-21-2009, 12:26 PM
Okay, I just got in... and forgot to take pix. Well, that's not true. I went to take pix and the battery was dead (my kids love the feature that allows them to distort their smiles)... So I went in and charged the camera... and never came back for it. Got distracted with too many other projects...

Everything is running, though my bypass isn't doing a damned thing. It's either on or off - there's no regulating the pressure... which is the way it's been since day one, near as I can tell.

Ignoring the regulator dysfunction, however, things are operating. I was able to thread the second filter on without any trouble, and it did a good job of catching much of the debris that was in the bottom of my tank.

I'll get some pix tomorrow, but after 12 hours of fixing crap, I'm done for the day.

As for you, Ric, as the song so eloquently states, "Ain't too proud to beg." I'd much rather have Pete hold my hand than "be a man" and botch it 26 times because I wouldn't stop and ask for directions. Now go back to your tapioca pudding and adult diapers. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

But Whooped

Pete is holding your hand after 150 posts and you still have it BOTCHED.

Now I wouldn't want to be politically incorrect like Our President on the Jay Leno Show the other night and suggest you might qualify for the Special Olympics. But maybe your the one in need of adult diapers because of my statement in the previous post????

heritage
03-21-2009, 04:58 PM
Okay, I just got in... and forgot to take pix. Well, that's not true. I went to take pix and the battery was dead (my kids love the feature that allows them to distort their smiles)... So I went in and charged the camera... and never came back for it. Got distracted with too many other projects...

Everything is running, though my bypass isn't doing a damned thing. It's either on or off - there's no regulating the pressure... which is the way it's been since day one, near as I can tell.

Ignoring the regulator dysfunction, however, things are operating. I was able to thread the second filter on without any trouble, and it did a good job of catching much of the debris that was in the bottom of my tank.

I'll get some pix tomorrow, but after 12 hours of fixing crap, I'm done for the day.

As for you, Ric, as the song so eloquently states, "Ain't too proud to beg." I'd much rather have Pete hold my hand than "be a man" and botch it 26 times because I wouldn't stop and ask for directions. Now go back to your tapioca pudding and adult diapers. :laugh::laugh::laugh:


Sounds right to me on the bypass. The only time is should be "Bypassing" is when you have the valve to the reel/spray gun off AND the Jet Agitation off......and this is when the Red Paddle is on Pressure.


When you start engine, CLOSE all pump valves on the pressure side, have the red paddle on "Bypass" for 1 minute till engine is warmed up, put red paddle all the way to pressure side (pump valves still closed) and THEN set your pressure adjustment 100 psi's above the pressure you will be working with.

NOW BERORE you open the Jet Agitation Valve on the pressure side, Look IN THE TANK. The BYPASS should be flowing big time AND your Pressure Gauge should be working, ready to be adjusted and steady.

Now that you see all of the above and have adjusted your pressure, go ahead and slowly open the Jet Agitation Valve on the pressure side until you are at your desired pressure about 100 psi's below your starting point.

Now your bypass does little as you have relieved pressure to your Jet Agitation.

Pics next.

Pete

Ric
03-22-2009, 08:12 PM
Sounds right to me on the bypass. The only time is should be "Bypassing" is when you have the valve to the reel/spray gun off AND the Jet Agitation off......and this is when the Red Paddle is on Pressure.


When you start engine, CLOSE all pump valves on the pressure side, have the red paddle on "Bypass" for 1 minute till engine is warmed up, put red paddle all the way to pressure side (pump valves still closed) and THEN set your pressure adjustment 100 psi's above the pressure you will be working with.

NOW BERORE you open the Jet Agitation Valve on the pressure side, Look IN THE TANK. The BYPASS should be flowing big time AND your Pressure Gauge should be working, ready to be adjusted and steady.

Now that you see all of the above and have adjusted your pressure, go ahead and slowly open the Jet Agitation Valve on the pressure side until you are at your desired pressure about 100 psi's below your starting point.

Now your bypass does little as you have relieved pressure to your Jet Agitation.

Pics next.

Pete

That is exactly where I have installed my second pressure regulator. That way I get a little constant agitation even when spraying. Shut off my gun and I get full agitation with no pressure build up in the spray hose. When I first reopen my gun I get the same constant spray pressure as if I had it spraying for an hour. My reason for installing the second regulator was to eliminate pressure build up in my hose when triggering the gun. I also wanted constant agitation. But poor old Whooped is so confused by now he can't think straight and is shipping you his D 403 as I type this.

heritage
03-22-2009, 08:37 PM
That is exactly where I have installed my second pressure regulator. That way I get a little constant agitation even when spraying. Shut off my gun and I get full agitation with no pressure build up in the spray hose. When I first reopen my gun I get the same constant spray pressure as if I had it spraying for an hour. My reason for installing the second regulator was to eliminate pressure build up in my hose when triggering the gun. I also wanted constant agitation. But poor old Whooped is so confused by now he can't think straight and is shipping you his D 403 as I type this.

Hey Ric,

Thanks for the insight......I know you mentioned it way early in these posts, but I did not quite understand it at the time. Now I will think about that for my setup.

The old hand shares his smarts.....And some smart *** as well LOL.

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-23-2009, 08:38 PM
Okay, here are the pix. A little anticlimactic, I suppose, but this is it:

Thanks, Pete.

And a special thanks to you, Ric. Don't know what I'd have done without you.

RigglePLC
03-24-2009, 08:37 AM
Sweet setup and great pictures. Thanks Whoop. Let us know how it works on the job. What pressure do you use? How many gallons per minute do you get from the gun? Is there still a risk of sucking urea into the filter?

heritage
03-24-2009, 08:36 PM
Okay, here are the pix. A little anticlimactic, I suppose, but this is it:

Thanks, Pete.

And a special thanks to you, Ric. Don't know what I'd have done without you.

Hey looks good.


Now I know you are a cheap guy as you say, but spend a few bucks and get a Glycerin filled Pressure guage with the highest reading of 300 PSI.

That Stock hypro Hy-Press, wont allow you to get even close to accurate under a 100 psi's, where you are doing your Turf apps. Don't want to see you Blow Up that little filter, on the swivel.

Pete

americanlawn
03-24-2009, 08:46 PM
We prefer the Hypro D-30. Been using them for twenty years. They are bullet-proof. Only prob is they're made in Italy :cry:

Has someone used both of these pumps and can assure me that the D30 is, in fact, going to require less maintenance than the D403?

Rusty Hook
03-24-2009, 10:29 PM
I never have had a problem with my space savers. We just replace the diaphragms each winter.

Laner
03-24-2009, 11:12 PM
I have only had to replace diaphrams once in 3 winters, only because I didn't get it winterized well enough. Everything is stored in a steel building (unheated) and I had a diaphram crack the first winter. I replaced that set and haven't had any problems since.

heritage
03-26-2009, 04:30 PM
Okay, here are the pix. A little anticlimactic, I suppose, but this is it:

Thanks, Pete.

And a special thanks to you, Ric. Don't know what I'd have done without you.

Whoop,

Did you start your apps yet?

Pete

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-26-2009, 05:55 PM
Did you start your apps yet?

Nope. I've been working, but not treating yet. Had a few good days where I went and aerated and tine raked... but then another storm came through. It's in the 20's and snowy here...

I was annoyed about the delay-of-game initially, but my grandmother passed away last night (which is a good thing, she's faaaaar better off where she is now) so this will enable me to run back out to Omaha and be there for the funeral.

heritage
03-27-2009, 12:39 AM
Nope. I've been working, but not treating yet. Had a few good days where I went and aerated and tine raked... but then another storm came through. It's in the 20's and snowy here...

I was annoyed about the delay-of-game initially, but my grandmother passed away last night (which is a good thing, she's faaaaar better off where she is now) so this will enable me to run back out to Omaha and be there for the funeral.

God Bless Whoop.

I lost my mom Feb 3rd.

Pete

Bryn
06-03-2009, 01:21 AM
Whoop,

How did everything work out?

Also what nozzle are you using, pressure etc.

Thanks

Bryn

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-03-2009, 01:27 AM
How did everything work out?

So far so good! I run the 2gpm nozzle and my pressure is so low I don't get an accurate reading on my current 6 bajillion PSI gauge.

My second filter I purchased for the hose ruptured the very first day I bought it, so I took it back off - but things are going well. In the past, I'd be set to lose my diaphragms some time in the next 5 or 6 weeks, so stay tuned. If they fail, I'll post on here...

Bryn
06-03-2009, 01:35 AM
That was a quick reply.

I need to do the same alterations to my space saver, it makes good sense.

That is interesting your pressure is so low. How many sqft/minute do you cover? And do you check the flow rate with a stop watch and bucket?

Thanks

Bryn

Bryn
03-07-2013, 08:33 PM
So Whoop,

We are four season from your show down with the 403 pump. How did your season go, and how many diaphragms have you changed, any update?

Thanks

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-31-2013, 10:47 AM
Sorry for the delay in response. This is the first time I've gotten on here in a looooooong while.

I sold the sprayer last fall. I had been using it less for the past couple seasons, opting to spot spray with backpacks to cut costs. As a result, my information is probably not all that relevant.

I still had to replace diaphragms yearly - even when I got to the point of only running prodiamine in the spring and then triplet the rest of the season. There was always some cracking on the diaphragms and eventual leakage.

The mods made it stable and (seemingly) dependable - though the decline in active use makes it a bit difficult to compare apples to apples...

AllBrad
10-04-2013, 05:44 PM
sub. for info..............