Slit-seeding on wet soil

[lawntennis]

I've noticed that if the soil is wet I get really nice results with my slit seeder. It seems like the slits are better defined and I get better seed to soil contact. Do any of you guys water a yard before slit seeding?

[Smallaxe]

Just don't let it be to wet, especially with heavier soils. Puddling, compaction, are sometimes never overcome.

[rcreech]

Just don't let it be to wet, especially with heavier soils. Puddling, compaction, are sometimes never overcome.

EXACTLY!

I actually think the opposite as I would wether it be drier then wet!

You don't necessarily want "groves" when slice seeding! You want seed to soil contact.

The drier the soil the more it "busts up" and shatters and that is where you get seed to soil contact.

When wet...your surface area of soil/seed is much less.

Just something to keep in mind!

[DoetschOutdoor]

Ive gotten best results when the ground has been not too wet but still soft. Id much rather have the ground a little damp and get nice grooves, but not too much to mud up the machine. I tell customers to water a little if possible or try to time it with the rain.

[rcreech]

I am not saying that moisture is a bad thing...I just don't like to slice when I hear the word "wet".

I rarely leave groves in the lawn without shattering...but that could have to do with soil types and conditions!

Anyway...no matter what, seed to soil contact is all the matters and wet soils isn't necessarily the key to getting it.

[rychlawn]

i have a couple clients who want bids on slit seeding as well as one for a new house with bare ground. i have only done small projects in past, these are acre-3 acre lawns. how do i bid these. thnks for your input

[LawnSolutionsCP]

I've noticed that if the soil is wet I get really nice results with my slit seeder. It seems like the slits are better defined and I get better seed to soil contact. Do any of you guys water a yard before slit seeding?


You will get much better results when the ground is bone dry... that is assuming the seeder you are using is powerful enough to cut slits in hard dry ground. Seed to soil contact is key! The dust the seeding process creates helps to increase germination rates. This added kick doesn't happen when the ground is wet.

David

[lawnpro724]

if your overseeding and the soil is to wet you will tear up the lawn making a bigger mess than you had before you started.

[rcreech]

You will get much better results when the ground is bone dry... that is assuming the seeder you are using is powerful enough to cut slits in hard dry ground. Seed to soil contact is key! The dust the seeding process creates helps to increase germination rates. This added kick doesn't happen when the ground is wet.

David

Totally agree David! If you look at my post you will see I think exacty the same way!

When soils are wet they just don't shatter and have provide the surface area needed to provide the seed to soil contact.

I wasn't going to argue the point with these guys, as I have much experience in this area...but glad to see someone like you understand and express your opinion as I feel you are 100% correct!

Plus wet soils just "gum up" the equipment and will even ball up the soil! Not good!

[grassman177]

rodney, you are addicted to this site, i cant even answer before you most times and i would say similar comments to yours, damn!!! i want to be a hero!

[rcreech]

rodney, you are addicted to this site, i cant even answer before you most times and i would say similar comments to yours, damn!!! i want to be a hero!

Sorry Dude!

It is a true sickness I have!

But hey...it's safer then crack or cocain and its legal! :laugh:

[keepcuttin]

Does it not depend on how the slicing was done? north/south east/west Diagonal. I do it 3 ways then broadcast some more, seed it cheap to do it right the first time, nobody wants to see a contractor constantly there trying to get it right. plus it negates the corn row effect... just my 2 cents....

[LawnSolutionsCP]

2 pass w/ diagonals fills in the rows the best.

[LawnSolutionsCP]

How to:

Watch the below video. This is how we do it. Click the below video. When we did it commercial / residential, we would take a still yard boss around the edges first. Then seed as shown.

And the lawn at the beginning of the video is my front yard...all turf type tall fescue.



How to Video (http://www.lawnsolutionscp.com/video/Rental_Video.wmv)

David

[keepcuttin]

I saw n-s what about e-w, seems like you would see some gaps and not even coverage. But being established you might not see the difference.

[Barefoot James]

Come on Rodney - everyone knows water germinates seed. You ae much better off doing it underwater if you have that option :laugh::laugh:
yanking you dude.
Dryer the better - David taught me well. One thing I have had some great success with is putting thw whole bag under water for 12 hours - 12 hours dripping out the water, 12 hours in water, 12 out, 12 in and 12 out - check seed and maybe do one more cycle - then spread seed out and mix with some organic fert or biosludge to dry it up a bit so it will drop out of your LS Turf Revitilizer (takes some practice) - always use fresh water and add some seaweed or compost tea and it will germinate in 2 days. Lots of trouble but the customers get grass growing quick and they love you. so I sort of do the underwater thing too - LOL

[kenny s]

Rcreech,
In most soil conditions, what is the deepest you need to cut your slits to get the best seed to soil contact? I am new at this, and I keep ??? whether I am proceeding with proper procedure. I have not gotten great results with the several jobs I have done, but the post watering is a problem with alot of customers because they just do not want to be inconvenienced with having to get out there every day, twice a day and water the proper way for 2 weeks. Also, is it okay to leave some of the thatch that is produced by the machine while seeding? I have been pre thatching the areas and picking up the thatch prior to seeding, but some thatch still comes up to the surface even after that.

[rcreech]

Rcreech,
In most soil conditions, what is the deepest you need to cut your slits to get the best seed to soil contact? I am new at this, and I keep ??? whether I am proceeding with proper procedure. I have not gotten great results with the several jobs I have done, but the post watering is a problem with alot of customers because they just do not want to be inconvenienced with having to get out there every day, twice a day and water the proper way for 2 weeks. Also, is it okay to leave some of the thatch that is produced by the machine while seeding? I have been pre thatching the areas and picking up the thatch prior to seeding, but some thatch still comes up to the surface even after that.

Kenny S,

I usually try and stay around 1/4" or so but sometimes you have to go deeper if the ground isn't real level! As long as you are getting a lot of soil movement...and don't miss a the "deep spots" you will be fine.

Don't worry as seeding is hard to screw up if you "stip up" enough dirt.

As you stated....SEED TO SOIL CONTACT IS THE KEY!!!!!

As far as watering, we all fight the same issues with that! If they don't water that is their fault!

Thatch...if it is around or over 1/2" I haul it off before I seed. If it is real thin, it is actually a good thing. It will kinda act like straw and will help to hold moisture.

There is kind of a find line on thatch as you will be able to see if it is preventing good seed to soil on contact.

The problem with too much thatch is the seed will dry out fast and if the seed isn't in contact with soil the germ will die.

Hope this makes sense.

If you need more info or want to talk...PM me your phone number and we can talk.

Seeding is very rewarding and profitable.

RC

[kenny s]

RC,
Thanks for replying so quickly, I appreciate it alot. You know, when you start doing something you have never done before, like slitseeding, you always are doubting the way ion which you do it, wondering if you are doing it right. Then when you do not get a good unifrom result, you seek to find the answer why. I am not using the machine properly, not putting down enough grass seed, is the seed going into the slices, too shallow, too deep, etc, etc!!!! You are right, I am doing the basic procedure correctly, I am just not getting the results yet. When I do my lawn again in April, (I usually core aerate it after I thatch it, then seed it, I am going to brosdcast seed over ther top like some of the guys I have read, do after slitseeding. Is this a a good thing or not neccessary? I would think the seed thrown down would lay on top of the grass and light thatch over the slits. I watched the video David put out on the forum on the Revitilizer, and it akes it look so easy and effortless. But again, the lawn they are doing is already full and green. They do show a couple of lawns that aer bare and then the "after" photo of it grown in. I will be happy when mine result like that. I will keep working at it until I get it right, the only thing is, someone is paying for my learning how to do this, and it almost does not seem fair. One more question for you regarding grass seeds. Up her in the north east we have cool weather grasses, KBG, Fescue, Rye, Zoysia, etc. In your experience, what type of grass has worked best for you, and has stood up against the elements, desease, weeds, etc? I am also looking into an electronic soil tester on a site that one of the other fellows sent to me. I want to be able to get a soil test right on the spot when I want to, instead of sending it to the Rutgers Univ. lab and then have to wait 2 weeks for results, depending on how busy they are. The one I am looking at is on the A.M Leonard site and it is the HB2 Kelway PH, (acidity) and moisture tester. It fits in your pocket, needs no chemicals to mix, just put it into the soil and push the button and you get the PH reading and the moisture. It cost $115.00. Do you use a soil tester?
Thanks again,
Kenny

[rcreech]

Best thing you can do when seeding is get down on your hands and knees and see where the seed is. As far as not putting enough on...that just comes down to calibration.

I am sure you are fine! Don't be so hard on yourself.

I use almost 100% TTTF blends. It does awesome here.

Around here our P and K is very good and pH is usually not an issue either so I don't soil test very ofter. I only soil test if a problem is identified!

For most...soil testing is needed about every 4 years.

As far as broadcasting seed over the top of slicing...it is a MUST IMO!

When I seed I go in one direction, then go on a 45 degree angle (which makes a diamond shaped pattern). I then broadcast over the top to get rid of the "corn row" effect.

For example...I usually go between 8 and 9 lbs/k with a TTTF blend.

So I will seed 3# in two directions and broadcast the last 2-3 lbs.

If you have "stirred" up the soil enough when slicing the broadcasting will do a great job!

That is why I stated earlier in this post the SLICING IN WET SOILS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA!

You will not disrupt the soil enought if soil is wet!!!! You will just create groves and very little soil will be on top of the ground!

[kenny s]

RC,
Thank you again, I value your advice and experience. I will keep working at this and Iwill get it right. I probably will buy a soil tester so I can test all the lawns this spring to see where they are. This is aslo something I have not done very much, but is good to do so you know where the lawn is as fasr as nutrient comsumption ability. I hope you don't mind if I call on you again in the future for some advice. Iwill definately let you know how my seeding results improve.
Kenny S

[rcreech]

RC,
Thank you again, I value your advice and experience. I will keep working at this and Iwill get it right. I probably will buy a soil tester so I can test all the lawns this spring to see where they are. This is aslo something I have not done very much, but is good to do so you know where the lawn is as fasr as nutrient comsumption ability. I hope you don't mind if I call on you again in the future for some advice. Iwill definately let you know how my seeding results improve.
Kenny S

Thank you for you kind words!

Trust me...the two loves of my life (after my wife and children) are turf and ag!

I can talk about them all day and have a great passion for both. As I said...if you ever want to talk, just PM with your phone and we can trade secrets! :)

[Pistol]

RC,
You're putting out 8-9#/1000sft on an established lawn? I thought the norm was about 4-5#.

I rented a Bluebird last fall - no control on the seed dispenser at all (there was a dial - didn't control anything!!!). Lots of seed "dumped" while turning. Also we only slit in one direction - corn rows!

What we're going to do this spring:
1) 1st pass with slit seeder - no seed
2) broadcast seed (quantity unknown - RC has me rethinking)
3) 2nd pass w/ slit seeder - no seed
4) broadcast seed (quantity unknown - RC still has me rethinking)

RC - you then do another pass on a diag. and then broadcast?

[rcreech]

RC,
You're putting out 8-9#/1000sft on an established lawn? I thought the norm was about 4-5#.

I rented a Bluebird last fall - no control on the seed dispenser at all (there was a dial - didn't control anything!!!). Lots of seed "dumped" while turning. Also we only slit in one direction - corn rows!

What we're going to do this spring:
1) 1st pass with slit seeder - no seed
2) broadcast seed (quantity unknown - RC has me rethinking)
3) 2nd pass w/ slit seeder - no seed
4) broadcast seed (quantity unknown - RC still has me rethinking)

RC - you then do another pass on a diag. and then broadcast?

Pistol,

I am sorry for the confusion...as I only go full rate (8-9#) on new seedings. I use my machine for both new and inter-seedings (use the unit in my avatar).

When inter-seeding I just go on the look of the lawn...but almost always go anywere from 3-6#. It just depends on the lawn.

Yes I like to slice going in two directions and then broadcast. It works awesome!!! If it isn't too bad I will just slice in one direction and broadcast...but I will hit the "thinner areas" twice with the slice seeder just to make sure it gets seeded well!

You can go 2#, 2# and spread 1# or 3-4# and spread 1 or 2# or whatever you need to do.

But as stated...the key is getting soil on the top for seed-to-soil contact!!!!!!

No lawn is the same! You just have to use your head as it will save time, money and seed!

[LawnSolutionsCP]

RC,
You're putting out 8-9#/1000sft on an established lawn? I thought the norm was about 4-5#.

I rented a Bluebird last fall - no control on the seed dispenser at all (there was a dial - didn't control anything!!!). Lots of seed "dumped" while turning. Also we only slit in one direction - corn rows!

What we're going to do this spring:
1) 1st pass with slit seeder - no seed
2) broadcast seed (quantity unknown - RC has me rethinking)
3) 2nd pass w/ slit seeder - no seed
4) broadcast seed (quantity unknown - RC still has me rethinking)

RC - you then do another pass on a diag. and then broadcast?


Why not rent our machine from Home Depot Tool Rental or STI Turf Care?

They both have them.

[cgaengineer]

Here in Georgia you must wait about 1-2 days after a rain/irrigate or you will ruin flails or machine with our concrete red clay. Slicing when dry only makes dust.

My PR22 does not have the seed hopper. What I do is one pass then toss out seed and go over it again for bare areas. For over seeding you can toss out seed and go over with one pass.

[LawnSolutionsCP]

One of our machines will laugh at the "hard clay".

I have attached the spec sheet for our 20" machines. There is a picture of the blades on the back. They are 1/8" anealed and tempered spring steel. They really only wear down on hard rock like granite or sand. In clay, the will last 2 years even under heavy use.

Yes, the do make dust, lot of dust, but that only helps in very high seed germination.

Howard Brother has them for rent in NE Atlanta (Deluth) if you want to try one.

[cgaengineer]

One of our machines will laugh at the "hard clay".

I have attached the spec sheet for our 20" machines. There is a picture of the blades on the back. They are 1/8" anealed and tempered spring steel. They really only wear down on hard rock like granite or sand. In clay, the will last 2 years even under heavy use.

Yes, the do make dust, lot of dust, but that only helps in very high seed germination.

Howard Brother has them for rent in NE Atlanta (Deluth) if you want to try one.

I know Howard Brothers!

Can your machine make 1/4" slits on concrete?

[LawnSolutionsCP]

I know Howard Brothers!

Can your machine make 1/4" slits on concrete?

If you have the unfortunate misfortune of hitting someones sidewalk with our machine, yes they will notice! If you ran it ontop of the concrete, not sure about 1/4" but atleast 1/8" if all the blades are riding on the concrete. Every now and then someone fires one up in final inspection and hit the concrete and stand back and watch the sparks fly. There are lots of slits in our concrete that are 1/8" deep.


If you hit just one blade on an edge, you will most likely take 1/4" - 1" of the edge of the sidewalk. I have only heard of this when people (homeowners) rent one and get going to fast before they are used to the controls.

[cgaengineer]

If you have the unfortunate misfortune of hitting someones sidewalk with our machine, yes they will notice! If you ran it ontop of the concrete, not sure about 1/4" but atleast 1/8" if all the blades are riding on the concrete. Every now and then someone fires one up in final inspection and hit the concrete and stand back and watch the sparks fly. There are lots of slits in our concrete that are 1/8" deep.


If you hit just one blade on an edge, you will most likely take 1/4" - 1" of the edge of the sidewalk. I have only heard of this when people (homeowners) rent one and get going to fast before they are used to the controls.

That's a nice machine for sure! I just don't think I could justify it right now. I am sure it beats the crap out of my Bluebird PR22.

[LawnSolutionsCP]

Howard Brother is supposed to rent them if you would like to try one. Most guys rent several times before purchasing.

David

[cgaengineer]

Howard Brother is supposed to rent them if you would like to try one. Most guys rent several times before purchasing.

David

If I rent one time I will want one, this is not good for my wallet!