What do I do now?

[Precedence]

I do a lot of lawn replacements on lawns where weeds have gotten out of control, i have been getting a company to come in and spray Glyphosate for me to knock down the weeds before i do the renovation. Well Ontario has just banned all pesticides including Glyphosate.

I have done some research and i know that Acetic or Citric acid will work on most weeds but it's no systemic so it will only kill what's on the surface.

Here is the problem, the weeds i deal with most commonly for lawn renos are Creeping Charlie and Wild Violet. These 2 weeds generally are so bad that at least 25% or more of the lawn is completely taken over, with these lawns i usually have Glyphosate sprayed twice with a 2-3 week interval between spraying. That has worked pretty good on the jobs i have done in the past.

My questions are how many Acetic or Citric acid sprayings would it take and at what kind of interval? Or will it just not work? And are there any other procedures or product can i use now?

Any suggestions would be appreciated, the guy i have been using to do the Glyphosate applications isn't very helpful and he has no idea beyond TFB for the customer (i need to find a new pesticide applicator too :rolleyes:).

Thanks

[Smallaxe]

How did the world survive b4 pesticides? :laugh:

They use to kill everything by mechanical means. Labor costs more than spray so you are going to have to develop labor saving strategies.
HOs going to pay more for weedfree lawns? Yes, and they have their gov't to thank.

Keep us posted on the post-ban developments to give us [US] good ideas for the time it happens here. :)

[HayBay]

Same problem here.

Hort Vinegar 200litres(45gallons) $500. Product Cost

Top kill only. Signage Required

My weed control Toolbox just got a big hole in it this year.

[ICT Bill]

FIRE !!!!!!!

or

Black/clear plastic

Both are a major disturbance, bring in the compost tea truck after, a great time to start with known beneficials like Mycorrhizae, trichoderma

[Smallaxe]

You guys knew it was coming...

Is there a 'strategy', that anyone in your country has adapted???

Fill us in. We are going to be totally - uncomfortable, when 'they' do the same thing here.

[treegal1]

Hort Vinegar, then FIRE, then till with some CMG(top only) water and wait, repeat as needed. so far on our test fields it is working great..... also clove oil, and the citric

[ICT Bill]

Hort Vinegar, then FIRE, then till with some CMG(top only) water and wait, repeat as needed. so far on our test fields it is working great..... also clove oil, and the citric

TG, play with clove oil and off the shelf vinegar, I haven't figured out the PPM part yet but ran across someone that had the mix and dosing JUST right and could use it as a post M

If the PPM was too strong it was toasted, too light not much happened

I do believe it was the application rate that made the big difference, had to be just right

[treegal1]

Bill the temp is the critical issue, along with the ppm, we have even found a secret ingredient that will " buffer" SAG so it does not burn with my concoctions use. I may just do crab grass control as a separate business

[ICT Bill]

Bill the temp is the critical issue, along with the ppm, we have even found a secret ingredient that will " buffer" SAG so it does not burn with my concoctions use. I may just do crab grass control as a separate business

Hey I will be in the Tampa area next week, I don't know if I will have time for the trek across the state but will see how it turns out. In on the 18th, meetings on the 19th, out on the afternoon of the 20th

[treegal1]

I don't know if I am going to be around, I had a heat stroke over the weekend and almost died, I am now looking into going into treatment, my whole left arm is out of gas. i may even skip or not do any classes for the next month. but if i stay local for therapy I may get over that way........its all up in the air for now...........

[Smallaxe]

I don't know if I am going to be around, I had a heat stroke over the weekend and almost died, I am now looking into going into treatment, my whole left arm is out of gas. i may even skip or not do any classes for the next month. but if i stay local for therapy I may get over that way........its all up in the air for now...........

Sometimes you over achievers worry me...

[JDUtah]

Wow Tree, I send my luck, support, and a prayer or two or three...

[Precedence]

Thanks for all the input and i think I've come up with something that will still be fairly cost and labor effective.

Here's my idea:

1. Spray with EcoClear (http://www.naturesglory.com/canada/product-ecoclear.html)

2. Wait 3 days and remove all the dead plant material (so as not to cause an Australia style brush fire in step 3 :) )

3. Wait 4 more days then use a Propane roofing torch to cook the soil and kill any perennial weeds.

4. Add1-2 inches of compost and till in to replace the microbes that got cooked

5. Do everything else the same as usual..........

I looked into using fire for perennial weed control and found this study (http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/Adams/ag/steamingstudy2002_1.htm) so it seems that a 2000C fire is pretty good at controlling weeds.

Any other suggestions are welcome or if anyone can see a major flaw with this plan let me know.

BTW Treegal sorry to here about the heat stroke, get well soon.

[weasel]

Wow.. and I thought Canada was the last Country left with any sense. There'a a thread "going green" that 2 eco nuts have almost written a frigin book on maybe it'll help

[Kiril]

Thanks for all the input and i think I've come up with something that will still be fairly cost and labor effective.

Here's my idea:

1. Spray with EcoClear (http://www.naturesglory.com/canada/product-ecoclear.html)

2. Wait 3 days and remove all the dead plant material (so as not to cause an Australia style brush fire in step 3 :) )

3. Wait 4 more days then use a Propane roofing torch to cook the soil and kill any perennial weeds.

4. Add1-2 inches of compost and till in to replace the microbes that got cooked

5. Do everything else the same as usual..........

I looked into using fire for perennial weed control and found this study (http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/Adams/ag/steamingstudy2002_1.htm) so it seems that a 2000C fire is pretty good at controlling weeds.

Any other suggestions are welcome or if anyone can see a major flaw with this plan let me know.

BTW Treegal sorry to here about the heat stroke, get well soon.

Couple of things.

1) Your biggest concern for your initial kill is for weeds that vegetatively propagate. Since you plan on tilling, this is your most important step.

2) If you are going to till, determine how much compost you need to bring up SOM to between 5-10%

3) Tilling, as you know, creates new weeds. Personally, if tilling is followed by anything other than sod, you should let any new weeds germinate before doing anything. Kill the new weeds with fire or solarize (with transparent plastic) the area after tilling.

[Dchall_San_Antonio]

The weeds you are trying to get rid of have a surface root system. My first thought (long before spraying anything) would be to use a landscaper's blade on the back of a tractor to scrape the surface clean. Then use a front end loader (same tractor??) and dump truck to get rid of the weeds. Your soil is prepared when you are finished with the scraping so no tilling is needed.

Tilling for grass usually gives poor results unless your tiller is mounted on a tractor. An operator with a hand held tiller cannot control depth so you end up with a rolling profile underground. When you level the surface above a non-level subsurface, you will end up with eneven settling as the years go by. In three years the owner will be unhappy with the uneven surface and wonder why it happened.