Troybilt Horse

[Jim@MilkyWay]

Well, well;
I can not believe I was still able to log on to the forum after nearly a year of inactivity. I read a number of posts to see if I could remember how to navigate the site and found the names of several "old friends" which is not a comment on their age, just that the friendships were formed a bit back.
While clearing trees from a clients yard yesterday I was given a new toy in the form of an old Troy. I got it running today but it may have two issues rendering it too expensive to resurrect. It is around an '86 vintage that has sat out in the open for who knows how long. When someone gives me a tiller with this much potential, I don't ask a lot of questions. The biggest problem in actually getting it to start and run at a slow idle was 1) three ounces of water in the tank and carb and 2) rust clogged fuel cap vent holes which would not allow _any_ air into the tank.
The two issues: 1) Engine speed surges constantly under load but not at idle. As a result of who knows how many hours of unchecked throttle surge the throttle shaft has the tiniest bit of side-to-side play. I would guess like maybe, 3 to 5 thousandths. 2) Entire axle assembly shifts side-to-side 1/2 to 3/4 inches through the housing. I did not have a chance to look at this "problem" (?) at all. It does not pour gear lube out of the axle housing, but that may be because it has no lube in the axle housing.
I would also like to get a repair/shop manual on this puppy. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts and/or ideas on the likelihood of it ever running well without replacing the carb and doing a seal job on the tranny. I found and downloaded a (current) PDF operators manual from Troybilt (?) but it just covers initial set-up, operation and a little maintenance.
I actually seem to be addressing three items here; carb, tranny seals or thrust bearings (?) and a shop manual. If it needs three different posts let me know and I will break it up.
Thanks in advance for all replies
Jim@MilkyWay

[Restrorob]

Well well well, Lookie who brought their nose back down out of space !!! :waving:

OK Jimbo,

You failed to supply the needed info outlined in the sticky up there ^ but I'll let ya slide this time. :)

These units came with the ole Tecumseh 7hp or a Kohler K181 8hp and a Briggs 190 series 8 hp, It sounds like the carb is leaning out on the high speed circuit and possibly due to the warn throttle shaft. If the engine sounds good and doesn't smoke a new carb may be in order, Especially if it's the Tecumseh.

There are thrust/shim washers on the drive axle and are installed as required to tighten axle side play, It would be my guess with that much play the axle bushings are worn and in need of replacing. Then the required shims can be installed to fine tune the side play.

As for a service manual, I'll shoot you a pm.


Cya

[Jim@MilkyWay]

[QUOTE=Restrorob;2835388]Well well well, Lookie who brought their nose back down out of space !!! :waving:

OK Jimbo,

You failed to supply the needed info outlined in the sticky up there ^ but I'll let ya slide this time. :)

These units came with the ole Tecumseh 7hp....


I have forgotten how to do all the good stuff in a quote so it looks "right" or even how to reply, so bear with me; I'll pick it back up.
I forgot to mention that I did check that PDF manual that I mentioned to see if it said where to find model info. It said to look on the deck. Well there used to be some decals there but they have long since peeled, disintegrated and faded into the sun-set. As for the engine, it is 7hp, but it says B&S on it so I just Assumed...
I will look for that PM (if I can remember how to find it).

[topsites]

Yes, this machine uses the old-style red Kohler?

1) Engine speed surges constantly under load but not at idle. As a result of who knows how many hours of unchecked throttle surge the throttle shaft has the tiniest bit of side-to-side play. I would guess like maybe, 3 to 5 thousandths.

Don't worry about the play.
Do replace the air filter, the breather hose (if it has), the spark plug,
and thoroughly clean all that linkage and the carbuteror with carb cleaner.
Now pull the bowl but watch out for those little parts!
Water likes to get up in there, the float has to be toyed with to check that it moves up and down freely.
And clean all that out real good with carb cleaner, compressed air would help, reassemble.

After that, it might be time to play with the mixture screws but I don't think it would need this, not for that style of Kohler.

2) Entire axle assembly shifts side-to-side 1/2 to 3/4 inches through the housing. I did not have a chance to look at this "problem" (?) at all. It does not pour gear lube out of the axle housing, but that may be because it has no lube in the axle housing.

This problem has to be looked into first, it could be simple but there's just no telling.

I would also like to get a repair/shop manual on this puppy.

Ahhh yeah.
Check and see if you can get the model number off the ENGINE.
That way we can at least get it running smooth.

I wonder if anyone has any thoughts and/or ideas on the likelihood of it ever running well without replacing the carb and doing a seal job on the tranny.

The likelihood is good to excellent, should I post pictures of mine?

Probably the same make and model, a mid to late 80's model, runs like a raped ape
but it doesn't see much use so I'm used to giving it the TLC it likes.

That Troybilt Horse is one of the best tillers I know of, they literally run forever.

[topsites]

Oh, something else just came to mind...
It needs you to spend some quality time with it.

[dutch1]

You will find the model number stamped on the top of the transmission case. Without going out an looking at mine, you will find it one one side or the other of the transmission cover.

Dutch

[Jim@MilkyWay]

Oh, something else just came to mind...
It needs you to spend some quality time with it.

Thanks Topsites, Dutch1 and RetroRocket
I am going outside to take care of business but wanted to log on and see if I had any replies I needed to attend. I didn't get to log on last night because the lil' ladies Celica stranded her for the first and hopefully the last time ever. 'Broke the transmission as it turns out and I had to off load my flatbed, make sure everything was in good shape, haul down to her part of town, load up the car, drag it to a repair shop drop it off and bring her home. I got in around midnight.
Topsites
To address one specific point real quickly.
As for the quality time this particular case warrants, I came home Monday, went straight to the shop without even changing clothes and went to work on the carb. I made a few adjustments here and there, then cranked it up to see what I had. It sounded better but was not 'there' yet. I had downed a pony while working at this and had put some tall ones in the freezer. So now I had a cold tall one while I did a little more. Now when I test drove it, it was sounding a _lot_ better, so I went back at it while I had two more tall ones. This time when I test drove it I don't hear a thang wrong with it :laugh:

[Restrorob]

LMAO !!! http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/images/smilies/whino.gif

[dutch1]

It was about 1975 that I bought a 1973 Horse at a farm sale for $150. It was in "like new" condition but it came equipped with a 4.5 HP Clinton. Used it on the farm for a large garden when the three kids were eating like a bunch of hungry wolves. Had numerous problems over the years with the Clinton.

About 5 years ago my luck changed. The owner of the small engine shop I worked in had a brother who was the manager of diesel dealership that handled small diesel engines for refrigeration compressors on semi-trailers(reefers). He had a 4.3 Yanmar diesel that had sat on the shelf for a couple of years. Since it hadn't sold, he wrote it off and brought it to our shop to use anyway that we could. It sat around the shop for a year or so. Looking at the Yanmar's bolt pattern, crank length/diameter it appeared that it just might bolt right on the mounting plate of the Horse. My boss told me I could have it if did fit. I removed the Clinton and the Yanmar bolted right on without a single modification with the exception of needing a longer throttle cable.

I haven't kept track of the TB line but the last I knew, the 8HP Kohler was the largest engine that they put on the Horse. I have used one with the Kohler and it doesn't hold a candle to the Yanmar for torque. I have not yet been able to kill the little diesel--it will squeal the belts before it will kill the engine and in addition, no carburetor problems to deal with.

Just in case anyone is interested in changing their Horse over to the Yanmar(and I don't think there will be any takers), look at spending near a Grand. As I recall, at the time I installed mine, dealer was about $960.

One of the few times in my life that I was at the right place at the right time.

Dutch

[Jim@MilkyWay]

LMAO !!! http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/images/smilies/whino.gif
Yea buddy. Me three.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

...Just in case anyone is interested in changing their Horse over to the Yanmar(and I don't think there will be any takers)...Dutch
Good story dutch1, and you are right, I won’t be converting to bio or any other type diesel any time soon.
I just got in from a little burn I had piled up. At it’s peak, the IR radiation was so deadly that if you stood 8 ft from the fire perimeter and didn’t spin fast enough, then you would in short order look like the ugly side of a rotisserie chicken that never started to spin but still went through the entire 90 minute cook cycle!
On high heat!!
Well I do have a little bit of progress to report on my new toy. The model number on the motor cowling, which appears to be a 7HP I/C B@S engine is 171432, the type number is 052901 and the code number is 88122310. There is a hand stamped number, 00899154 on the tiller housing which I think might be the tiller serial number because there is an arrow pointing to said number and the cast stamp reads “tiller s/n”. So does all that get me the correct parts I will need to replace the thrust bearings or whatever I need for the tranny?
That said, here is what happened on Monday after my tall ones and a fat macanudo. I tilled and cross tilled about 850 ft²/hr for two hours, getting well over half of the plot done and it never burped or coughed. I might have burped and coughed a little, (or worse) but the tiller ran great. The hunt cycle only occurs if my engine speed is tooo high. Even at just above idle, the thing pulls so hard that when the tines dig in, the governor throttles up and the tires nearly jump off the ground but I guess I’ll get used to it! It is sort of exciting to hang on and hold it back for more than a few minutes at a time, especially at the end of the rows where the fence looms large. I don’t know if my patch is quite big enough for this particular machine. All I know is that I just can’t do it like I have for the past ten years. After all, 3000 ft² gets to be really back breaking work doing it all with a spoon and a screwdriver.
Also, Topside is right about the throttle shaft not being worn enough to be a problem, for now that is. I sprayed the side of the carb where the throttle shaft comes through with WD 40 and could not detect any change in engine speed. I then did the same with starter fluid and the engine RPM actually dropped. While that is not what I expected to happen, it still indicates something happened. Maybe the throat ingested the ether but still I would have thought the RPM would increase not decrease.
Stay tuned for chapter two.
Later
Jim@MilkyWay

[muddstopper]

If that tiller is to much for you to handel. I can drop down from NC and take it off your hands.:laugh:

[44DCNF]

I was going to suggest a shroud removal to clean out any possible mouse nest or accumulated debris from storage outside. I was thinking if it was governed by an air vane, that could have been causing surging...blocked by debris. You say it is running fine now, but it still might be a good idea to clean under shrouds to prevent heat spots if it does have any air flow blockage