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DanaMac
03-08-2009, 11:45 PM
Anyone have good links for security cages to prevent theft of BFVs? What I'm really looking for is one for a PVB or RP that is tight to the wall, so the cage can mount to the wall. Open on the backside, hinged door in front. Ewing had literature for one, but I don't remember the brand name, and I wasn't impressed with it.

mitchgo
03-08-2009, 11:48 PM
My weapon of choice for security

DanaMac
03-08-2009, 11:50 PM
Looking for something like this
http://www.guardshackenclosures.com/products/clockguard/
This might be fine. I think this is the one Ewing showed me the literature on.

I'm replacing 2 PVBs that were stolen. And don't want to move everything and add a concrete pad.

mitchgo
03-08-2009, 11:52 PM
So is theft high enough of those items in your area to worry about it that much?

" Guys come on lets go steal a back flow assembly so we can sell it! ... Give me a beer first! "

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 12:02 AM
So is theft high enough of those items in your area to worry about it that much?

" Guys come on lets go steal a back flow assembly so we can sell it! ... Give me a beer first! "

Yes it was. The price for scrap copper and brass was at an all time high. I had 4 customers get them stolen last year. Bigger commercial sizes were very prone to it, and brought in more scrap. Most city or county stuff now have cages around them. But the bottom has dropped out on the market, and they are not as valuable. But tweakers will still take them if it will score enough cash for a fix.

Tom Tom
03-09-2009, 10:00 AM
vitproducts.com

They sell the strongbox that was at the show in January.

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 10:06 AM
vitproducts.com

They sell the strongbox that was at the show in January.

I like their wall mount enclosures, but for $1000 minimum, I doubt I'll go that route. The cage that I linked to is about $150

Mike Leary
03-09-2009, 10:11 AM
Congrats on 6K, Dana! :clapping:

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 10:12 AM
Congrats on 6K, Dana! :clapping:

BooYah!!!! I knew you'd be the first to congratulate.

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 10:24 AM
I guess I'll go this route, it seems fairly inexpensive compared to others. And the PVBs will be replaced right along the wall. this will work for the PVBs, but I don't think for the RPs unless I go with and angle RP, which is about double in price. The lots are completely flat, so I may install just high enough for code, so there isn't much exposed copper below the cage.

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 10:40 AM
One of the properties that needs the PVB replaced, had it stolen TWICE last year. we didn't start servicing until after the first theft, which we didn't know about. Then when we went out to shut it down and blow it out, the PVB was gone. We'd serviced the system earlier in about August or so.

hoskm01
03-09-2009, 08:21 PM
Sweat on a new MA or FA and still bluw out?

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 08:25 PM
Sweat on a new MA or FA and still bluw out?

Either way if we install the cage or not, we will add a tee for blowing out easier.

ARGOS
03-09-2009, 08:45 PM
I saw some of these in Sacramento last week. Pretty clean. They come insulated. Placer Water Works. (http://www.placerwaterworks.com/Products/Enclosures/Backflow%20Enclosures.html)

AI Inc
03-10-2009, 06:57 AM
With scrap prices down , do you think if will still be needed?

DanaMac
03-10-2009, 08:19 AM
With scrap prices down , do you think if will still be needed?

Yes, they'll steal anything. And I don't want it to go missing mid-July and nobody calls me until the lawn is crispy. As did one of these properties.

I'm just waiting for a tweaker to accidentally steal the gas meter instead of the backflow :laugh:

hoskm01
03-10-2009, 11:02 AM
Yes, they'll steal anything. And I don't want it to go missing mid-July and nobody calls me until the lawn is crispy. As did one of these properties.

I'm just waiting for a tweaker to accidentally steal the gas meter instead of the backflow :laugh:
Had an incident of that nature in AZ at the PD. Bad guy died. Awww. too bad.

AI Inc
03-10-2009, 11:52 AM
2 junkies got fried here last fall trying to steal wire from a live 16,000 volt set up.

DanaMac
03-10-2009, 03:48 PM
2 junkies got fried here last fall trying to steal wire from a live 16,000 volt set up.

Yup. We had guys injured or dead here stealing wire between the light poles along the highway

Kiril
03-11-2009, 10:03 AM
Custom build something?

DanaMac
03-11-2009, 10:06 AM
Custom build something?

Not much of a welder. Want it to look good.

Kiril
03-11-2009, 10:13 AM
Not much of a welder. Want it to look good.

Does it have to be metal?

Wet_Boots
03-11-2009, 10:34 AM
Does it have to be metal?I'm sure paper mache would deter those brass thieves. Maybe an artificial wasp-nest cover would do the trick. http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ElAS-tUxl2dD_M:http://www.aardvark-ie.com/lrgwaspnest.gif

DanaMac
03-11-2009, 10:56 AM
Does it have to be metal?

has to be a strong theft deterrent.

Kiril
03-11-2009, 11:15 AM
Out of site, out of mind. If you build it to look like part of the house, then it is a theft deterrent. If a thief is prepared to deal with something like a wood enclosure, chances are they will be prepared to deal with a metal one as well.

That cage you posted is nice and neat .... but nothing a crowbar won't make quick work of.

DanaMac
03-11-2009, 11:52 AM
has to be a strong theft deterrent.

Oh I'm sure a good strong plastic would be fine, if you know of one. The hardware and lock are probably the weak points.

Kiril
03-11-2009, 12:03 PM
The hardware and lock are probably the weak points.

Exactly .... would be relatively easy to break into any cage that is attached to a house, regardless of the material it is built with.

Kiril
03-11-2009, 12:05 PM
Oh I'm sure a good strong plastic would be fine, if you know of one.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head would be an electrical junction box .... the big ones. Carlon makes them, but they get pretty pricey as you go up in size.

djt22
03-12-2009, 07:55 PM
Check out bacflowtheft.com they are either making or have what you are looking for. I talked with a rep not to long ago that had their product, what is neat about their product is inside the square tubing you see is a piece of round stock so when someone tries to saw through it the round stock just spins and they can't get all the way through.

DanaMac
03-31-2009, 06:08 PM
Ok here are some photos from our cage install. I'm not overly happy with it. The cage can be torn off the wall fairly easy. It is an old home, and we used anchors for concrete as it's a concrete/cement outer wall (probably filled with asbestos).

Notice the hasp that the lock goes on. It came with a regular eye-blot. WTF - all it needed was for someone to grab the lock and turn the entire eye bold counter clockwise out of the friggin wall. So we picked up that hasp at ACE. Not the best, but better anyway.

The hinges are fairly skimpy. I could easily bend the metal and probably break it.
I think we will make some others. I will by some materials and one tech can weld. Only problem is powder coating. Have to source that out if I want it. Maybe just spray paint.

Now I know you will all laugh at the set up. WE DID NOT INSTALL THIS SYSTEM. We replaced the stolen PVB. It was stolen twice in a two week period last year. Hopefully this will be a deterrent. The last photo shows where the pipe exits the building, and elbows over about 6'. That is because of the concrete directly below it. I know - the hose bibb before the PVB doesn't meet code here. and yes it is a big cluster with the gas meter, three conduits, etc.

Tom Tom
03-31-2009, 06:16 PM
Looks good, matches the house color!

DanaMac
03-31-2009, 06:21 PM
Looks good, matches the house color!

You know whats funny, it comes in two colors. Gray and white. When I ordered it I could not remember what color the building was, so I just ordered gray. It does match pretty good.

The house is actually converted to a dentist's office.

One more photo.

hoskm01
03-31-2009, 06:40 PM
Nice work Dana.

DanaMac
03-31-2009, 10:19 PM
Nice work Dana.

Thanks. Hopefully it will deter the freaks.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
03-31-2009, 10:47 PM
So is theft high enough of those items in your area to worry about it that much?


It's a rampant problem out here in CA. I've had 10 devices stolen in one night. Big 2" RP devices plumbed in all brass or copper. they are getting good at it too. They kill the meter and take a battery operated sawzall to the lines and away they go. Unfortunately a cage costs as much or more than the damn device so people don't want to install them from the get go. But once they loose a device they sure pony up the cash fast to install a cage.

I like the All Spec Enclosures. Nice construction and fair prices http://www.allspecenclosures.com/

DanaMac
03-31-2009, 11:13 PM
It's a rampant problem out here in CA. I've had 10 devices stolen in one night. Big 2" RP devices plumbed in all brass or copper. they are getting good at it too. They kill the meter and take a battery operated sawzall to the lines and away they go. Unfortunately a cage costs as much or more than the damn device so people don't want to install them from the get go. But once they loose a device they sure pony up the cash fast to install a cage.

I like the All Spec Enclosures. Nice construction and fair prices http://www.allspecenclosures.com/

There are some really good enclosures out there. And yes they can cost as much as the backflow device at times. Plus labor to pour a pad, and a second trip to install once it has dried can really start to add up.

This is a new customer that we picked up late summer. He had a plumbing company replace the PVBs the previous two times, at the cost of $500 each time for a friggin 3/4" PVB and some copper. Friggin rip offs. Probably the plumbers coming back and stealing them. I hope he was exaggerating on the $500 charge.

TRILAWNCARE
03-31-2009, 11:47 PM
Get some money back for installing cages. At least in Anaheim, CA


http://www.anaheim.net/Utilities/waterrules/BPDInfoandApp.pdf

AI Inc
04-01-2009, 06:50 AM
Copper is way down now ( Im assuming brass is too ) I got a delivery yesterday and for a 10'stick of 1" that I was paying $48 for last season is now $21

DanaMac
04-01-2009, 09:45 AM
Get some money back for installing cages. At least in Anaheim, CA


http://www.anaheim.net/Utilities/waterrules/BPDInfoandApp.pdf

that's pretty cool. Glad to see it.