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View Full Version : TRC vs. RM


DanaMac
03-09-2009, 07:47 PM
Ok can some of you that have used both the TRC and the RainMaster remotes explain why you don't like one or the other? Seems like some of you using the RM are dead set against the TRC. Why? What major and minor differences are there? Distance? Reliability? Don't like the color? What's the deal?

And yes I know we've talked about it in many different threads, just want a new perspective.

Mike Leary
03-09-2009, 08:48 PM
RM remotes were part of the program when we started installing DX clocks; we had a TRC, granted, a very early AM version, but once we pigtailed the RM into all our systems, fun was had, problems zero.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-09-2009, 08:53 PM
The delay after pushing the button on the TRC drives me insane.

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 09:00 PM
The delay after pushing the button on the TRC drives me insane.

You mean the 0.5-1.0 second delay?

hoskm01
03-09-2009, 09:20 PM
To some people, thats a long time to wait in life...


J/K Peter.


I like the RM, never tried the TRC. Useless observation at this point

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 09:24 PM
I don't think range is an issue for me, as we primarily service residences. the largest commercial system, in terms of area, would be a car dealership. No HOAs or common areas or apartments.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-09-2009, 09:26 PM
You mean the 0.5-1.0 second delay?

When water is shooting up at 60psi a second seems like eternity. Especially when you hit the off button before the previous push has registered. So you have to pause and push again and it becomes 2 seconds ARRRRRGH

DanaMac
03-09-2009, 09:30 PM
When water is shooting up at 60psi a second seems like eternity. Especially when you hit the off button before the previous push has registered. So you have to pause and push again and it becomes 2 seconds ARRRRRGH

Mmmm... I can see that happening. I'll make note and let my guys know.

That's what I'm wanting to here though. What issues do any of you have with it.

mowerman111
03-09-2009, 11:41 PM
I was going to start a thread on remotes so I'll just hijack this one instead :). What timers do either one of these remotes work on? and do they have to be remote ready to work, not trying to ask a stupid question but I'm not familiar with any remotes, but I've been thinking lately how nice it would be to have one, the only thing is alot of properties we maintain have old RB Esp's and LX series or Irritrol and a few Hunter clocks.

hoskm01
03-10-2009, 04:45 AM
I was going to start a thread on remotes so I'll just hijack this one instead :). What timers do either one of these remotes work on? and do they have to be remote ready to work, not trying to ask a stupid question but I'm not familiar with any remotes, but I've been thinking lately how nice it would be to have one, the only thing is alot of properties we maintain have old RB Esp's and LX series or Irritrol and a few Hunter clocks.
Pigtails is your answer. You can make the remotes work on just about any clock with pigtails and a universal adapter (at least for the RM).

Many newer and better clocks these days have ports already installed and ready to accept a remote, therefore no need for pig tails. The ESP MC's have ports installed for a remote, but with an uncommon connection. Pig tails with the cool port on it and you are again in business.

Fimco has and can get just about any configuration of pig tail. Look him up in the phone book.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-10-2009, 07:55 AM
Pigtails is your answer. You can make the remotes work on just about any clock with pigtails and a universal adapter (at least for the RM).

Many newer and better clocks these days have ports already installed and ready to accept a remote, therefore no need for pig tails. The ESP MC's have ports installed for a remote, but with an uncommon connection. Pig tails with the cool port on it and you are again in business.

Fimco has and can get just about any configuration of pig tail. Look him up in the phone book.

I wonder if I should shut down my irrelevant alter ego and be all business like and start advertising here again? I will warn you though that the first time I hear even the mildest complaint about REP or SIGS or BANNERS I will light into you like a twister in a rv park.
Basically you will lose my free market Gandhi style rants for polite to the point no nonsense irrigation talk. Maybe I should start a poll.

mowerman111
03-10-2009, 08:18 AM
So am I understanding right, the clock does not have to be remote ready, if you have a pigtail? Does the pigtail hook up to the station terminals?

BSME
03-10-2009, 08:30 AM
can you make these remotes work on two wire systems?

DanaMac
03-10-2009, 08:44 AM
I wonder if I should shut down my irrelevant alter ego and be all business like and start advertising here again? I will warn you though that the first time I hear even the mildest complaint about REP or SIGS or BANNERS I will light into you like a twister in a rv park.
Basically you will lose my free market Gandhi style rants for polite to the point no nonsense irrigation talk. Maybe I should start a poll.

Prefer you as you are. Opinionated and all around informative. Where else would we learn to bake bread? :laugh: Don't go getting all corporate on us.

Waterit
03-10-2009, 08:52 AM
I wonder if I should shut down my irrelevant alter ego and be all business like and start advertising here again? I will warn you though that the first time I hear even the mildest complaint about REP or SIGS or BANNERS I will light into you like a twister in a rv park.
Basically you will lose my free market Gandhi style rants for polite to the point no nonsense irrigation talk. Maybe I should start a poll.

Please don't change on our account - we need the balance!

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-10-2009, 08:57 AM
So am I understanding right, the clock does not have to be remote ready, if you have a pigtail? Does the pigtail hook up to the station terminals?

Here are some pics. I couldn't find one with my remote hooked up. The top pigtail is for the Commercial RB.

On two wire the remote has to be built into the controller. No way to pigtail a 2 wire system. The RB remote port is one I've researched and the Sidekick with the RB made receiver is the way to go on that one. I just pigtail RBs myself.

Mike Leary
03-10-2009, 10:03 AM
Here's one of Peter's pigtails.

Tom Tom
03-10-2009, 10:09 AM
Is there a separate pigtail thread?

If not Pete needs to start one up. Pics, tips, techniques.

I'm interested in some sort of outdoor enclosure (where the controller is mounted inside of garage, but an outside wall)

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-10-2009, 10:10 AM
Mike is BY FAR my most meticulous and clean wiring customer. Has anybody seen an ETWATER Controller? They use my pigtails and apparently it fits nicely into their cabinet. I've never seen it but am curious.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-10-2009, 10:16 AM
I wish circulars had become the industry standard for remotes but cost caused those 37 pin d-hubs to be the market. One idea I've had is making a circular to d-hub extension. This would allow for these type of connectors to be used at the controller or through the wall. The problem is that in past experiments I've been stuck with inventory that nobody would buy.


http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=2177105&postcount=29

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-11-2009, 05:15 PM
Here is an oldie I stumbled on. Testing Google search engine words and some interesting stuff comes up.

http://new.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=189964

MCM
03-12-2009, 07:18 AM
Has anyone used the Icon remotes?

DanaMac
03-12-2009, 07:49 AM
Has anyone used the Icon remotes?

Never heard of them. Got a link?

Wet_Boots
03-12-2009, 08:30 AM
Maybe spelled 'Eicon' ??

MCM
03-12-2009, 09:59 AM
Maybe spelled 'Eicon' ??

Sorry you are right. Never used one but i think it`s part of Toro\Irritrol

irritation
03-12-2009, 10:17 AM
but i think it`s part of Toro\Irritrol

So is Rain Master.

Wet_Boots
03-12-2009, 10:22 AM
So is Lawn Genie - witness the new LG454 remote-receiver combo

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:_HGTNVd7j_W2yM:http://www.stnmedia.com/assets/images/phone_can.jpg

DanaMac
03-12-2009, 10:25 AM
- witness the new LG454 remote-receiver combo

http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:_HGTNVd7j_W2yM:http://www.stnmedia.com/assets/images/phone_can.jpg

Smoke signals are more cost effective.

Kiril
03-12-2009, 10:56 AM
The ESP MC's have ports installed for a remote, but with an uncommon connection.

Yes, heaven forbid the industry come up with a standard interface. :hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
03-12-2009, 11:28 AM
Hunter's Smart Port could be as good a standard as anything. Simple enough.

Mike Leary
03-12-2009, 02:00 PM
Maybe spelled 'Eicon' ??

They are damn good, though Toro will prolly wreck them.

irritation
03-12-2009, 02:58 PM
Has Toro wrecked the RM yet?

Mike Leary
03-12-2009, 03:03 PM
Has Toro wrecked the RM yet?

According to my moles with Irritrol and RM, they have been left alone; maybe Toro learned their lesson.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
03-22-2009, 08:05 PM
Give them time. Toro wrecked the Irritrol MC controller. Took them a few years but they did. If they are smart they will just leave the people at Rain Master alone and just collect the money

Mike Leary
03-22-2009, 08:19 PM
Toro wrecked the IrritrolMCcontroller.

In one of the greatest corporate moves ever, getting rid of the MC was genius; the dumbest clock ever made.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
03-22-2009, 09:58 PM
The Irritrol MC was always a very very poorly designed controller from an electronics stand point. From the first MC+ all the way up to the MC-B+. I used to own a company that did component level repairs on controllers for many years. The old Rain Bird ISC, RCM, CIC etc and the Rain Masters were the best designed controllers on the market. They had good solid designs for their power supplies and they had tons of surge protection. The Irritrol looked like something that a high school kid built for a science project. The only thing that Irritrol had going for them was that it was fairly easy to program and it was priced just below the competing products from Rain Bird and Rain Master. The new version of the MC is just a disaster. The LCD display is cluttered, hard to read and it has a horribly slow refresh rate. Push a key and it literally takes almost 1.5 seconds for the display to respond. The only good thing that they did with the design was to eliminate that stupid membrane keypad that was embedded in the face plate and replace it with actual tactile switches. Of course when you look at the rest of the Toro controller line up, buying Hardie was the smartest thing that they ever did.

The funny thing is if you look at Toro's financial statements for their irrigation division for last year the only reason that they really made any money is because they bought Rain Master. It was purely a strategy thing on their part to buy Rain Master. Most believe that it was to keep Deere from buying them since it is has been made clear that Deere wishes to get into the golf and turf irrigation business.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-23-2009, 04:39 AM
I heard that WM wanted to buy RainMaster as well but me thinketh they weren't even allowed in the ballpark. Somebody's next move should be to buy WM for the smartline and maybe the brass valves and dump the rest of the company.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
03-23-2009, 09:58 AM
Rain Birds new controller should pretty much make the Smart Line worthless when it comes out in a few months here.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-23-2009, 10:10 AM
Rain Birds new controller should pretty much make the Smart Line worthless when it comes out in a few months here.

Not so fast. Read Sprinkus thread. RB timer looks cheap as well. Pretty good chance RB will have issues and people will stick with WM. WM may have corralled mid-level market as well. RB has a real arrogance problem. WHERE IS THEIR FRIGGIN REMOTE! What a joke. Can't even put a decent remote on the market.

Mike Leary
03-23-2009, 11:01 AM
I miss Imperial; they were the last company to have a full line of top-quality
stuff. :cry:

Wet_Boots
03-23-2009, 11:09 AM
They even sold brass insert fittings.

Mike Leary
03-23-2009, 11:12 AM
All from a family-owned small operation in Lenexa, Kansas. :clapping:

Tom Tom
03-23-2009, 11:32 AM
RB has a real arrogance problem. .

I've heard that from time to time over the years. The RB rep that rides his high horse into town once in awhile comes off that way too.

If there new controller is any good, prolly a couple years to work out the bugs.

In the meantime, any info on SL upgrade in the works?

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-23-2009, 11:51 AM
SL Upgrades is John Jr.'s category. I'm out of the loop these dazes.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
03-23-2009, 11:56 AM
Rain Bird could be workign on a new remote. Hard to say. But I don't think that they sold a lot of the last remote that they had on the market

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-23-2009, 12:08 PM
I tried the remote. IT STUNK that's why nobody bought it. They need a remote that can take a beating has a 3,000' range and is in the 300-450 price range and they won't be able to keep it on the shelves. Make a cheapo for the HOs if you want but that isn't your market. Make sure it works on the RB port that is in all the existing timers and make sure it doesn't have an annoying delay between transmitter signals.

Wet_Boots
03-23-2009, 12:17 PM
Maybe RB wants to buy a remote, and not sweat designing one.

Mike Leary
03-23-2009, 12:20 PM
an annoying delay between transmitter signals.

The Hunter remote has the same lag; might as well walk back and forth to the clock.

DanaMac
03-23-2009, 12:26 PM
I heard RB was thinking of taking the TRC sidekick that is specific for the ESPs and rebranding it as their own. probably their best bet. Even though you guys don't like the TRC.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-23-2009, 12:26 PM
Maybe RB wants to buy a remote, and not sweat designing one.

It's not rocket science. Even TORO has managed to do it. That guy on EBay from St. Joseph, MO has done it. I suspect KIRIL could do it. Take the NEXTEL commecial grade push to talk phone they had. Retrofit that as your transmitter. Buy an FCC LI receiver selling on EBay and VIOLA! It just isn't that big of a deal.

THEY JUST DON"T WANT TO DO IT FOR SOME CRAZY CORPORATE REASON

SIGH>>>>>>>>

But I'll tell you WHAT WOULD BE AWESOME An IPHONE APP that could run a Receiver put at every timer.

Mike Leary
03-23-2009, 12:29 PM
I heard RB was thinking of taking the TRC sidekick that is specific for the ESPs and rebranding it as their own. probably their best bet. Even though you guys don't like the TRC.

Did RB buy TRC?

Wet_Boots
03-23-2009, 12:33 PM
Maybe there's some possible problem with the FCC - Hunter was very hush-hush about simple workarounds for the limitations on the length of the cable connecting the SmartPort receptacle.

Kiril
03-23-2009, 12:39 PM
It's not rocket science. Even TORO has managed to do it. That guy on EBay from St. Joseph, MO has done it. I suspect KIRIL could do it. Take the NEXTEL commecial grade push to talk phone they had. Retrofit that as your transmitter. Buy an FCC LI receiver selling on EBay and VIOLA! It just isn't that big of a deal.

THEY JUST DON"T WANT TO DO IT FOR SOME CRAZY CORPORATE REASON

SIGH>>>>>>>>

But I'll tell you WHAT WOULD BE AWESOME An IPHONE APP that could run a Receiver put at every timer.

You know, once I get my house finished, I might try putting something together like a bluetooth or WiFi controller interface. That would be way cool. :clapping:

DanaMac
03-23-2009, 12:44 PM
Did RB buy TRC?

I don't think so. But they can probably get some agreement with TRC to rebrand that one product. maybe make a minor aesthetic change to make it look different.

Mike Leary
03-23-2009, 02:29 PM
I don't think so. But they can probably get some agreement with TRC to rebrand that one product. maybe make a minor aesthetic change to make it look different.

It seems like the RB remote we used for a commercial winterize was a TRC with a RB label. POS; line of sight and slooooow.

SoCalLandscapeMgmt
03-24-2009, 08:08 PM
Not so fast. Read Sprinkus thread. RB timer looks cheap as well.

The pictures that you saw were of a un-finished / prototype pilot run product.

Mike Leary
03-24-2009, 08:20 PM
Rep.......Beat it.

zman9119
03-25-2009, 02:53 PM
Two quick questions for all the Rain Master guys...

I know their website lists that the remote uses a VHF frequency for transmitting, but they do not list the paging (tone) method they use. I know TRC is a proprietary DTMF system. Also, does anyone know what the frequency is on the remote?

Second question is approximate cost for a Rain Master universal remote system?


(I know I am asking one simple then one hard question. Wish I could look it up but I am in the process of packing for moving on Friday for work... perfect time right before the season starts :hammerhead: )

DanaMac
03-25-2009, 02:56 PM
Second question is approximate cost for a Rain Master universal remote system?


Universal RM is about $1200 brand new. Give or take a couple hundred.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-25-2009, 03:08 PM
Two quick questions for all the Rain Master guys...

I know their website lists that the remote uses a VHF frequency for transmitting, but they do not list the paging (tone) method they use. I know TRC is a proprietary DTMF system. Also, does anyone know what the frequency is on the remote?

Second question is approximate cost for a Rain Master universal remote system?


(I know I am asking one simple then one hard question. Wish I could look it up but I am in the process of packing for moving on Friday for work... perfect time right before the season starts :hammerhead: )

Are you thinking of building one? If so send me a pm and I'll give you my 2 cents and cable suggestion. I'd love for somebody on this site to try and build a remote with my input of course.

Mike Leary
03-25-2009, 07:32 PM
with my input of course.

Your input counts dick. :hammerhead:

greenmonster304
03-25-2009, 08:05 PM
hey mike leary I just noticed your avatar looks alot like mine.

Mike Leary
03-25-2009, 08:18 PM
hey mike leary I just noticed your avatar looks alot like mine.

Yours is upside down.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-25-2009, 08:50 PM
Your input counts dick. :hammerhead:

Coming from RainMaster's biggest suck up.

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-26-2009, 01:36 PM
Two quick questions for all the Rain Master guys...

I know their website lists that the remote uses a VHF frequency for transmitting, but they do not list the paging (tone) method they use. I know TRC is a proprietary DTMF system. Also, does anyone know what the frequency is on the remote?

Second question is approximate cost for a Rain Master universal remote system?


(I know I am asking one simple then one hard question. Wish I could look it up but I am in the process of packing for moving on Friday for work... perfect time right before the season starts :hammerhead: )

Hope this helps

Mike Leary
03-26-2009, 01:55 PM
Coming from RainMaster's biggest suck up.

Yup, of all the clocks I've installed, my nine RM DX are the only ones that have been trouble-free, including the remotes. :clapping:

zman9119
03-26-2009, 09:08 PM
Thank you FIMCO. I will PM you this weekend with my ideas...


.mz.