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View Full Version : normally open sprinkler valve?


JuddGA
03-14-2009, 09:24 PM
I know this sounds weird, but its not for a sprinkler system. I need a valve that will open when power is removed and allow water to flow, versus a normal sprinkler valve that closes when power is removed.

Any idea on where to get one?

mitchgo
03-14-2009, 09:33 PM
What is it for?
How come it can't just be when you don't need the valve.. Don't use it.. And when you do.. Just use it.

How long would the valve be open?

hoskm01
03-14-2009, 10:02 PM
Its called a normally open master valve. Not all controllers can operate a normally open valve, where as a normally closed valve will operate on just about any controller. There are lots of manufacturers out there who make these. Supply house will have them

FIMCO-MEISTER
03-15-2009, 07:05 AM
I bet this is so you can shut your house water off when no one is around or when you are gone. I had a customer wanting me to design a valve set up that he could flip his house water on and off with a switch. He had a leak while gone that cost 150,000 in home repairs and became totally paranoid after that about water. Was shutting his meter off whenever he left the house. I investigated and decided that if I were to put a valve in I'd use the brass WM with the high end round solenoid. They tell me it can be left energized for extended periods without overheating. Another route I'd go though that would be even better I think is to use a latching solenoid. All you are doing is reversing polarity.

kozmo
03-15-2009, 08:45 AM
Here in NJ we have used those valves were lawn sprinklers are supplied by supplies used for fire suppressing.When the fire system activates all water is shut down to the lawn sprinklers and building supply.

Wet_Boots
03-15-2009, 11:06 AM
Of course the OP needs to spell out his application, since some guys go looking for valves to drain fish tanks and such, and diaphragm valves won't do the job.

Mike Leary
03-15-2009, 11:10 AM
I know this sounds weird, but its not for a sprinkler system. I need a valve that will open when power is removed and allow water to flow, versus a normal sprinkler valve that closes when power is removed.

Any idea on where to get one?

Superior makes one in brass and Rain Master makes a clock that handles a normally open valve. Both pricey.

Sprinkus
03-15-2009, 11:32 AM
Bermad makes a normally open valve.

Sprinkus
03-15-2009, 11:55 AM
Bermad 200 series valves (http://www.bermad.com/data/img/en_81.pdf). (Pdf file takes a while to load)
They come in 3/4" through 2" and can be configured for normally open applications.

Kiril
03-15-2009, 12:07 PM
Spears makes an actuated ball valve, NO and NC .... not cheap either.
Apollo and Asco also offer the same in brass and SS, also not cheap.

Kiril
03-15-2009, 12:09 PM
I bet this is so you can shut your house water off when no one is around or when you are gone. I had a customer wanting me to design a valve set up that he could flip his house water on and off with a switch. He had a leak while gone that cost 150,000 in home repairs and became totally paranoid after that about water. Was shutting his meter off whenever he left the house. I investigated and decided that if I were to put a valve in I'd use the brass WM with the high end round solenoid. They tell me it can be left energized for extended periods without overheating. Another route I'd go though that would be even better I think is to use a latching solenoid. All you are doing is reversing polarity.

I have one in my house (actuated ball valve) that will be connected to various leak detectors throughout the house. If a leak is detected, the home automation system will shut the water off to the entire house.

JuddGA
03-15-2009, 12:12 PM
Its being used in a cleaning system of parts in a commercial application. Basically we are filling up a bin, then draining it later at a predetermined time. We need to open the drain automatically. Thats why I thought a sprinkler valve would be good, except I need it reversed.

I already tried a diaphgram valve and as stated, it doesnt work. I guess the drain does not create enough pressure to keep it open.

Kiril
03-15-2009, 12:18 PM
Its being used in a cleaning system of parts in a commercial application. Basically we are filling up a bin, then draining it later at a predetermined time. We need to open the drain automatically. Thats why I thought a sprinkler valve would be good, except I need it reversed.

I already tried a diaphgram valve and as stated, it doesnt work. I guess the drain does not create enough pressure to keep it open.

You need an actuated ball valve.

Wet_Boots
03-15-2009, 12:26 PM
For parts cleaning, you may have to get a valve with Viton seats.

JuddGA
03-15-2009, 09:10 PM
I took a look and electric actuated ball valves arent cheap. I need 9 of them

So how about a different approach. I know it shouldnt take more than 30 minutes to drain the bins. I could easily put the valves on timers or relays and have them drain at the appropiate time. So I could actuate the sprinkler valves at the appropiate time allowing the bins to drain, then shut them off after a set period.

Are there any sprinkler valves that will operate with little or no pressure and allow water to trickle through them?

I know this isnt really the place for this since its not directly irrigation but I figured who better to ask about water control ?:drinkup:

So basically is there any cheaper valve that will allow water to freely flow through it with little or no pressure? I can pretty much figure out how to control it through timers, relays, etc

Thanks alot


EDIT: BTW, its not harsh chemicals or anything so no special materials are needed

mitchgo
03-15-2009, 10:04 PM
again...

What the heck is the application for.. It will help us give you ideas on what to do...

Fishy tank?? ect??

Why 9???

And No.. A irrigation valve works only under pressure. Unless you stick a rock between it! :)

JuddGA
03-15-2009, 10:42 PM
Its being used in a cleaning system of parts in a commercial application. Basically we are filling up a bin, then draining it later at a predetermined time. We need to open the drain automatically. Thats why I thought a sprinkler valve would be good, except I need it reversed.

I already tried a diaphgram valve and as stated, it doesnt work. I guess the drain does not create enough pressure to keep it open.


9 different cleaning stations

mitchgo
03-15-2009, 10:47 PM
missed that one :)

Guess the sunday night margarita's are kicking in. :)

mitchgo
03-15-2009, 10:50 PM
9 different cleaning stations

Okay. So my question is..

What are you needing to get out of for it to close?

So your having cleaning products being drained and need to close the valve for some reason..

Why not just let it drain all the time just regularly?

Are you testing the water or something at this point?

JuddGA
03-15-2009, 10:53 PM
we need to let the items soak for a while, then drain. Its a time consuming process so we are trying to automate it.

Basically we fill the bin, let the items soak for an hour or so, then drain.

Wet_Boots
03-15-2009, 11:11 PM
Are there any sprinkler valves that will operate with little or no pressure and allow water to trickle through them?Not in their job description. And it isn't like you're draining clean water, either. It might be accomplished with plain ball valves.

TRILAWNCARE
03-16-2009, 12:45 AM
I took a look and electric actuated ball valves arent cheap. I need 9 of them

So how about a different approach. I know it shouldnt take more than 30 minutes to drain the bins. I could easily put the valves on timers or relays and have them drain at the appropiate time. So I could actuate the sprinkler valves at the appropiate time allowing the bins to drain, then shut them off after a set period.

Are there any sprinkler valves that will operate with little or no pressure and allow water to trickle through them?

I know this isnt really the place for this since its not directly irrigation but I figured who better to ask about water control ?:drinkup:

So basically is there any cheaper valve that will allow water to freely flow through it with little or no pressure? I can pretty much figure out how to control it through timers, relays, etc

Thanks alot


EDIT: BTW, its not harsh chemicals or anything so no special materials are needed

Take a look at these valves. They will work at 0 PSI and are available in normally open operation.

http://www.ascovalve.com/Common/PDFFiles/Product/8030R1.pdf

mitchgo
03-16-2009, 01:04 AM
that sounds like a perfect application for him

Though I'm pretty surprised I can't find any prices listed for those valves... even in there catalog!

Kiril
03-16-2009, 09:07 AM
that sounds like a perfect application for him

Though I'm pretty surprised I can't find any prices listed for those valves... even in there catalog!

They are around $200 bucks.

Wet_Boots
03-16-2009, 10:24 AM
They are around $200 bucks.And he needs how many? When it comes to problems like this, you have to ask "What would Rube Goldberg do?"

JuddGA
03-16-2009, 10:37 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-4-Electric-Solenoid-Valve-110-VAC-Air-Water-B21N_W0QQitemZ290300248654QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item290300248654&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14.l1262


It is it not normally open but for $35 I can install a DPDT relay that will flip it on and off according to other factors, or just put it on a seperate timer for $15. I am controlling 4 stations at a time so its one timer for 4 tables.


I appreciate all the help guys

Kiril
03-16-2009, 10:56 AM
That looks like a pretty old model .... check to see if you can get replacement parts for it.

wab1234
03-16-2009, 03:25 PM
grainger sells low pressure solenoids for around 100 bucks

Wet_Boots
03-16-2009, 03:44 PM
Parts would cost more than NOS valves on eBay. I figured out a simple way to use standard ball valves for the job.