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The Yard Barber, Inc.
03-18-2009, 10:58 AM
Not to mention any names but... John Deere landscapes wants way too mush for their vista lights. A 600w transformer it nearly $500 that to me is crazy high. I gave a customer a price on lighting today and they started laughing because one simple black path light alone was $212 with a 5 w bulb and JD charges for the bulb if you want something other than a 5w. Anyone out there in lawnsite land please let me know if there is anywhere in NC that does not want an arm and 2 legs for lighting. My customers cannot afford a $212 light when they need 10 of them. I have looked at some of the encore lights and they are not quite as bad but still. I am starting to more and more lights and need to find a place to get light cheaper so I can start to sell more jobs.
Thanks everyone!

JoeyD
03-18-2009, 11:05 AM
Here you Go.......Shemin Nursery's is an awesome distributor in NC. Sorry JDL didnt work for you.

Shemin Nurs Cornelius 704-892-3295
Shemin Nurs Morrisville 919-380-8555
Shemin Nurs N Charlotte 704-892-3295
Shemin Nurs Pineville 704-583-0246

The Yard Barber, Inc.
03-18-2009, 12:12 PM
is there anything in eastern NC?

JoeyD
03-18-2009, 12:17 PM
Other than John Deere this is all I have for ya! Hope this helps!!

Florida Irr Matthews (704)893-0707
Florida Irr Apex 919-861-0543

Alan B
03-18-2009, 12:49 PM
Fold
Calite
terradek
LandscapeLightingWorld

Terradek
03-18-2009, 01:10 PM
Joey,
Don't forget about your national suppliers...thanks Gr1ffin.

Gerry De La Vega
President
Terradek Lighting Inc.
www.terradek.com

JoeyD
03-18-2009, 01:14 PM
LOL.....sorry Gerry......I was trying to help him with distributors in NC as he requested!

But yes, Terra Dek and FOLD are also very good options.

Mark B
03-18-2009, 02:47 PM
How far east are you talking about. There is a Unique dealer on the east side of Raleigh off the Jones Ferry Rd exit.

Go Halogen
03-18-2009, 04:31 PM
I can not understand why you would be charged so much for a Vista 600w trans? I buy from John Deere and my pricing is not extreme?

You may want to call around to other Deeres? If you do much business with them you should be in the Mid to upper $300s for a 600 watter.

Also, I get them to switch out lamps for me all of the time???? Usually I just request the light with the appropriate lamp. There is never a charge that way??

-Andy

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-18-2009, 05:26 PM
Umm, why are we discussing NET pricing here in a public forum?

MAB, I will suggest that you are caught in what we refer to as a "race to the bottom".
1: Stop quoting your systems on a per fixture cost. You owe it to yourself, to your industry and in the end to the clients.
2: Develop a strong relationship with a strong distributor. In so doing you will generally get much better pricing and support
3: Stop selling a bunch of parts to your clients. A professional lighting system is much more than the sum of its parts. At the very least it is a SYSTEM but in fact, if done properly it should be a cumulation of Art, a system that provides that art, service, and the ability to be in business over the long haul in order to continue to service your clients.
4: Change your terminology to reflect #3 above. I have clients, I do not have customers.
5: Please do not discuss component costs here in this publicly viewable forum. It just isnt kosher. What you are able to achieve in terms of pricing does not accurately reflect that which others are able to achieve. In the end, discussing component parts here will result in the inability of others to charge what is reasonable and required to operate ongoing, professional operations.

kaferhaus
03-18-2009, 08:45 PM
The OP asked a legitimate question and another member was kind enough to verify that he was being "had".

Pricing information IS something we need to share as it helps to maximize OUR profits.

Knowing where to buy your components at a price you can then be competitive with in your proposals is one of the biggest keys to actually getting that client.

Obviously salesmanship plays a role in obtaining most clients, but when you're given a "spec sheet" by a general contractor or munincipality it makes all the difference between getting blown out of the water or getting the job.

Most homeowners (even the wealthy ones) are no longer just going to "Jim" because the folks down the road or another member of the club used him... they may indeed ask him for a quote but they're also going to keep hiim honest by getting other proposals.

I'm all for everyone making profits that's what we're all about here, however I never want to be the guy they're making huge margins on because those guys don't survive.

Trying to "squash" talk about pricing sounds more like trying to protect yourself from the competition than any concern for the "industry".

Eloquent as it was, it still is what it is.

NightScenes
03-18-2009, 08:57 PM
Discussing pricing here could be considered price fixing and therefore we do not do that here. There is also a "sticky" on the subject of discussing prices at the top of this forum.

irrig8r
03-18-2009, 09:00 PM
There are reasons to avoid talking about your net pricing (after your contractor discount, whatever that happens to be in your market, and under the terms you work out with your distributor.)

Your customers (clients) can find this forum very easily via Google.

So say they can see what say you pay for a fixture or trans. Unless they are in business themselves, they don't often "get" the idea of overhead and all the other expenses you have to stay in business.

If you were to charge them a per-unit price and they were to see you are charging them "X" times your cost, then you may just put yourself in an awkward position.

kaferhaus
03-18-2009, 09:47 PM
Discussing pricing here could be considered price fixing and therefore we do not do that here. There is also a "sticky" on the subject of discussing prices at the top of this forum.

Now the "price fixing" thing is just lame. You'd have to be in collusion with other contractors in your area and you'd also have to fix prices on labor and everything else.

The way I got to one of my distributors was by doing what anyone else (general public included) can do. All munincipal bids (here anyway) have to have materials and labor broken out. After getting "creamed" on several nice jobs it occured to me to go downtown and ask to see the winning bid. I knew the guy that kept winning these jobs was buying from the same people I was... I quickly found out why I was losing the bids.

The supplier quickly changed my discount level (most work on tiers) but because I'd been assured I was getting their "best price" prior to losing these jobs I rarely buy anything from them any longer as they simply "lied" to me.

And with all the fear of some "public disclosure" I see very few posts on this entire board from "shoppers". A business shopper certainly isn't going to spend time roaming around forums and I highly doubt the folks that can afford these premium services are either. If any are they're certainly an extremely tiny group.

There seems to be no "issue" with discussing prices on any of the other forums on this site, so it's odd that the mod here as agreed to limit the exchange of information in order to shield a few of you guys out of fear your competitiors may learn your price points and use that as leverage with the suppliers.

I'm all for everyone making a buck but I'm not into suppliers lying to me about what their "wholesale" prices are either. I'd much rather they spell it out.... buy this much you're on this level, buy this amount you move to this level... etc. etc.

And as the original poster questioned that particular firm is notorious for not being truthful with their "wholesale" customers. Their predecessor didn't do business that way and I've done little business with them since....

Tell me I'm getting contractor pricing (on large volume purchases at that) only to discover that the freaking big box store is selling the identical product at the same price ... buy one or buy a hundred....

Mark B
03-18-2009, 10:00 PM
Oh boy now here we go again.. Now will someone pass me a beer please.

BrandonV
03-18-2009, 10:58 PM
as both I and sleepyhead can attest to here in NC except for a few select areas most of the clients here ain't going to pay top dollar for lights, especially with the costco mentality we have going. people are paying a fortune for those ugly and useless solar powered lights but we're too expensive. oh well. since you're in eastern NC give Tim a call at florida irrigation there in cary, they carry unique, alliance and maybe some other brands. very nice guys. I'm with you on JDL that's when I found FIS, haven't looked back. DO TAKE A LIGHT to your client and show them the difference, you're competing w/ the lowes garbage here my friend, you have to show them the difference in quality.

BrandonV
03-18-2009, 11:00 PM
Oh boy now here we go again.. Now will someone pass me a beer please.

how's business buddy? I've got to go back up to that job I took you too, want to move some of the lights up in the trees to the other side (like I wanted to do the first time) and add some here and there. got 1 more big one to do and a small one, but other than that dead on the lighting front. hope spring brings you some work.

tonyGub
03-18-2009, 11:06 PM
Now the "price fixing" thing is just lame. You'd have to be in collusion with other contractors in your area and you'd also have to fix prices on labor and everything else.

The way I got to one of my distributors was by doing what anyone else (general public included) can do. All munincipal bids (here anyway) have to have materials and labor broken out. After getting "creamed" on several nice jobs it occured to me to go downtown and ask to see the winning bid. I knew the guy that kept winning these jobs was buying from the same people I was... I quickly found out why I was losing the bids.

The supplier quickly changed my discount level (most work on tiers) but because I'd been assured I was getting their "best price" prior to losing these jobs I rarely buy anything from them any longer as they simply "lied" to me.

And with all the fear of some "public disclosure" I see very few posts on this entire board from "shoppers". A business shopper certainly isn't going to spend time roaming around forums and I highly doubt the folks that can afford these premium services are either. If any are they're certainly an extremely tiny group.

There seems to be no "issue" with discussing prices on any of the other forums on this site, so it's odd that the mod here as agreed to limit the exchange of information in order to shield a few of you guys out of fear your competitiors may learn your price points and use that as leverage with the suppliers.

I'm all for everyone making a buck but I'm not into suppliers lying to me about what their "wholesale" prices are either. I'd much rather they spell it out.... buy this much you're on this level, buy this amount you move to this level... etc. etc.

And as the original poster questioned that particular firm is notorious for not being truthful with their "wholesale" customers. Their predecessor didn't do business that way and I've done little business with them since....

Tell me I'm getting contractor pricing (on large volume purchases at that) only to discover that the freaking big box store is selling the identical product at the same price ... buy one or buy a hundred....

A little searching around this forum will lead you to the best distributors. What products are you using that anyone can buy at the big box stores? I have travelled quite a bit and do buy electrical panels, wire, breakers from these places. However, I have never seen a professional grade fixture or transformer in one of these places. I would never buy what these guys are selling. What manus are you saying sell in the big box stores. Please dont respond malibu.

TXNSLighting
03-18-2009, 11:24 PM
A little searching around this forum will lead you to the best distributors. What products are you using that anyone can buy at the big box stores? I have travelled quite a bit and do buy electrical panels, wire, breakers from these places. However, I have never seen a professional grade fixture or transformer in one of these places. I would never buy what these guys are selling. What manus are you saying sell in the big box stores. Please dont respond malibu.

He probably will...

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-18-2009, 11:33 PM
Pricing information IS something we need to share as it helps to maximize OUR profits. Great, if you really believe this then join the AOLP and you can discuss pricing, profits and any other numbers you wish to share with your competition in a private, members only forum. Or, send an email or two. Just don't discuss this in public. Do you regularly break out all your operational costs, product costs etc to your 'customers'? If so... best of luck to you.

Knowing where to buy your components at a price you can then be competitive with in your proposals is one of the biggest keys to actually getting that client. I would suggest that knowing your own business, inside and out is a first step. As for 'getting that client', well not all of us market on price alone. Some clients actually want the absolute best quality service and systems before they are worried about modest price differentials. You really do get what you pay for.

Obviously salesmanship plays a role in obtaining most clients, but when you're given a "spec sheet" by a general contractor or munincipality it makes all the difference between getting blown out of the water or getting the job. Knowing your business and your role in the market is important for sure. If you are a lighting installer that is one thing. Most of us here are not installers, we are design build contractors. I have never been handed a spec. sheet. I am the one who designs and does the specifying.

Most homeowners (even the wealthy ones) are no longer just going to "Jim" because the folks down the road or another member of the club used him... they may indeed ask him for a quote but they're also going to keep hiim honest by getting other proposals. So sorry to hear about your luck. Over 95% of all my new clients are refferral or "club members". Clients may indeed request another lighting guy to come and create a proposal, but there is no comparing them as the art we are creating is unique, and makes use of different materials, techniques etc. I would never leave behind a full design, specification, and detailed quote without a signed contract and full consideration (payment) for the time and energy put into developing said proposal. Do you see architects designing a home and then dropping off those plans without being compensated for them? I dont think so. I always revert back to an example of two portrait artists... One says he can paint the family portrait for $2K, the other says he can do it for $6K. Which one do you choose? ...... It's easy, you pick the one who's art you most like, you pick the one you prefer.

I'm all for everyone making profits that's what we're all about here, however I never want to be the guy they're making huge margins on because those guys don't survive. Now that is some very strange, twisted logic right there. ?????

Trying to "squash" talk about pricing sounds more like trying to protect yourself from the competition than any concern for the "industry". No, it is not trying to protect one's self from any competition (see my note above about competition) It is just simply a really dumb idea to reveal your base component costs to the marketplace. It pins you down and it does not account for all of the soft costs invovled in operating your business. You do recoup your soft costs don't you? If not, it is you who will not survive in the long run. This is just business 101 stuff.

Eloquent as it was, it still is what it is.


Yep, it is what it is... just plain old good advice.

Mark B
03-18-2009, 11:40 PM
Hey Brandon, it kinda sucks right now. I still have some monthly lighting work to do. I still have a few bids out, but I still get a yes or no. I will start up some irritation in a few weeks. So hopefully things will pickup when the trees start leaving out. You know how small of a town I live in, so that makes it even harder.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-19-2009, 12:01 AM
Now the "price fixing" thing is just lame. You'd have to be in collusion with other contractors in your area and you'd also have to fix prices on labor and everything else. Actually it is not lame. It has to do with some laws and regulations that were recently passed in your Country. This has come up in the past on this and other public and private forums.

The way I got to one of my distributors was by doing what anyone else (general public included) can do. All munincipal bids (here anyway) have to have materials and labor broken out. After getting "creamed" on several nice jobs it occured to me to go downtown and ask to see the winning bid. I knew the guy that kept winning these jobs was buying from the same people I was... I quickly found out why I was losing the bids. I do hope you have engaged a separate insurance policy or rider on your commercial liability policy that allows you to bid on and participate in civic / municipal projects. If you have not, then you are putting your business in great peril by doing this type of work.

And with all the fear of some "public disclosure" I see very few posts on this entire board from "shoppers". A business shopper certainly isn't going to spend time roaming around forums and I highly doubt the folks that can afford these premium services are either. If any are they're certainly an extremely tiny group. Do you really thing that clients who read this site would actually take the time to post and contribute to it? Hey, if you really want to, post all the financial particulars of your operation, what do I care. I know for a fact that the public does find this site in their google searches. It actually comes up pretty high on the list of hits if you participate here often. We regularly entertain posts from DIY'ers and potential clients here, I wonder how they found it?

There seems to be no "issue" with discussing prices on any of the other forums on this site, so it's odd that the mod here as agreed to limit the exchange of information in order to shield a few of you guys out of fear your competitiors may learn your price points and use that as leverage with the suppliers. Pricing with quality distributors is based on solid, loyal relationships, not on any fear. Find one, stick with them, help them grow their business just as they should help you grow yours. You will reap what you sow. As for my competition achieving the same price point as I have with my distributors... who cares? I can out-design, out-light, out-service, and out-perform any of them any day of the week. That is what you should be focused on... beating your competition on those fronts is very rewarding.

I'm all for everyone making a buck but I'm not into suppliers lying to me about what their "wholesale" prices are either. I'd much rather they spell it out.... buy this much you're on this level, buy this amount you move to this level... etc. etc. If you took the time to develop a solid realtionship with said distributors, and not always look to beat them over the head with lowest possible cost all the time, you would be much further ahead. Do you like it when you get price shopped on every job? Of course not! Neither does the distributor appreciate that kind of behaviour. Good distributors also add value to the transaction, above and beyond the simple pricing and supply of components. This is worth something don't you think? You are not putting any value on what a distributor can and will do for you. Just as a good lighting system is worth much more than the sum of its parts, a good distributor is worth much more than simply the lowest possible cost on materials.

Tell me I'm getting contractor pricing (on large volume purchases at that) only to discover that the freaking big box store is selling the identical product at the same price ... buy one or buy a hundred....

Big box stores? OMG... what are we talking about here? I simply assumed you were looking for quality professional grade products. I had no idea you were out there slamming in retail level junk. Now I understand. LOL you should be ashamed of yourself for charging so much per fixture to put that crap into somebody's property. :laugh:

One last thing... I assume that you do mark up your materials with some sort of margin do you not? Assuming you do, and you get a price of $10 for widget A from one source and you get a price of $20 for widget B (that happens to be a far superior product) from another source, (one that probably provides a bunch of value added that you have not even considered!) then which source would you choose? If mark up your components by 20% and you go with A you stand to make $2, if you go with the much better B you stand to make $4. It really does pay you to install the best product you can find on the market, and your 'customers' will appreciate it in the long run too.

And that is all for Biz 101 for today.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-19-2009, 12:18 AM
Hey Brandon, it kinda sucks right now. I still have some monthly lighting work to do. I still have a few bids out, but I still get a yes or no. I will start up some irritation in a few weeks. So hopefully things will pickup when the trees start leaving out. You know how small of a town I live in, so that makes it even harder.

Hey Sleepy... Burlinton NC has a pop. of 47592! That is a freaking megalopolis compared to here! :)

My village has a pop. of some 800. The town to which I pay my taxes has about 16,000 pop. The entire greater Muskoka region has a pop. of only 57,563 and that comprises 3 towns and a 'township'.

You want a small market to work in? C'mon up here and take a shot! Oh, and of course we only have a 7-8 month season in which we can install outdoor lighting!

Not that I am complaining, I truly do love living here. It is 'God's Country'. Im sure that even in Burlington NC there is a rather nice niche of properties that occupy the top 5%! Go get em! :weightlifter:

The Yard Barber, Inc.
03-19-2009, 10:13 AM
if you should not discuss pricing then why is there a procing forum on lawnsite? Guys GROW UP. If my "customers" wanted to go find prices, they would just go to lowes and get some lights and put them in theirselves. I think that you guys need to just mind your own business. I did not ask you how you would run my business or what I should do. My question was : does anyone know a good lighting supplier in Eastern NC. I'm not sure how you guys do lighting but I do like my "customers" to pick out their own lights not just sell them some package and try to get them to fall into some trap by paying more then they need to pay.
Thats my reality 101 for today
Thanks to the few people who did not have a stick up their a$@ who answered my question

NewJersey
03-19-2009, 02:53 PM
Here you Go.......Shemin Nursery's is an awesome distributor in NC. Sorry JDL didnt work for you.

Shemin Nurs Cornelius 704-892-3295
Shemin Nurs Morrisville 919-380-8555
Shemin Nurs N Charlotte 704-892-3295
Shemin Nurs Pineville 704-583-0246


MAB

Shemin Lawrenceville NJ 609.844.1075

I will ship directly to you either from my branch or direct from Unique.
No sales tax on out of state purchases but you would pay freight except on larger orders. I currently ship to several other states around the country and can provide phone and email support...and Unique is always willing to help out as well. Feel free to contact me with any questions. Bill.
wwinston@shemin.net

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-19-2009, 03:48 PM
if you should not discuss pricing then why is there a procing forum on lawnsite? Guys GROW UP. If my "customers" wanted to go find prices, they would just go to lowes and get some lights and put them in theirselves. I think that you guys need to just mind your own business. I did not ask you how you would run my business or what I should do. My question was : does anyone know a good lighting supplier in Eastern NC. I'm not sure how you guys do lighting but I do like my "customers" to pick out their own lights not just sell them some package and try to get them to fall into some trap by paying more then they need to pay.
Thats my reality 101 for today
Thanks to the few people who did not have a stick up their a$@ who answered my question

Perhaps MAB, you should just stick to cutting lawns and leave the design and installation of outdoor lighting systems to the trained professionals who are already established in your market. I'm sure some would be willing to pay you a finder's fee or commission on the work.

Allowing your customers to pick the fixtures and no doubt the locations too, then sticking them in the ground for a few extra bucks is doing neither you, the industry or your customers any favours. It is this type of approach that has in the past given LV outdoor lighting a bad reputation for effectiveness, quality and longevity.

If you really do want to continue in this business, why not attend a Unique seminar, or at least buy the book. It will help to propel your business up to a level that is sustainable and effective.

djt22
03-19-2009, 06:38 PM
MAB check your private messages.

The Yard Barber, Inc.
03-19-2009, 11:17 PM
Maybe in Canada they do things different but "customers" here, in a real country, actually have enough common sense to know what they want. Let me give you an example. When you want a new car, do you call the dealership and just tell them you want a car go ahead and put it in the driveway? No, (well I assume you would know better) you go to the dealership, look at what color you want, options, horsepower etc. Drive it home for the night, show you wife and think about it for a month. With lights, landscaping, Vinyl fencing, and everything else in our industry, we let our "customer" pick out whatever they might desire. Every customer is different. Oh you know what I bet that’s why they have so many different colors, but what do I know I’m just an un established grass cutter who doesn’t know anything about the industry. Now I’m not sure what you think you might be doing for your company's reputation by talking like this, but I think that you need to think before you publicly humiliate yourself in front all of your potential "customers" on Lawnsite.com. Instead maybe if you would have said "hey man I would be happy to help you on this one. Call me and we can talk. Oh by the way how are you charging." maybe just maybe, I would have called and ordered 4-5k of landscape lighting a year. But nah don't worry about me I'll just stick to cutting grass while you lose business by talking trash to potential "customers". Hey maybe I will call the guys down the road who installed the lights, which none of the 15 they put in less than 2 years ago work. They might just throw me a $100 finders fee, and the customer might just throw my card and reputation in the trash. Thanks have a great day!

The Yard Barber, Inc.
03-19-2009, 11:17 PM
thanks djt22 you were a big help.

TXNSLighting
03-19-2009, 11:21 PM
Are you F-ing kidding me?? Dude calm down. Its not right to talk about pricing in these forums. Thats just common courtesy. Dont be attacking James, in our thread. That is the lighting professionals. No one said its not ok for the homeowner to pick fixtures, but professionals do the design work and everything. And we have our price the average homeowner doesnt think about all th over head we have and what not. You need to just calm yourself and listen before you humiliate yourself. You need to know what your doing and you clearly do not.

The Yard Barber, Inc.
03-19-2009, 11:40 PM
yep you clearly know so much more that me because you have so many more posts on the forum. Hey how do you have time to work when all you do is stay on the internet and read bs like this? just a thought.

TXNSLighting
03-19-2009, 11:46 PM
o your one of those guys who look at post counts..yeh thats right. because i have all those posts in two years, im always on here. not quite. im just one of those who help people who are helpable unlike you. and where did i say i know more than you cuz of my post count?? thats just stupid.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-20-2009, 12:33 AM
[QUOTE=MAB lawn care;2865583]... maybe just maybe, I would have called and ordered 4-5k of landscape lighting a year.[QUOTE]

Wow! Really? $4k to $5k of product in a year? I had no idea of the volume you were doing over there! :clapping:
Well done, that is quite the business you have built up for yourself. How long have you been installing for?

Mark B
03-20-2009, 12:52 AM
Still going?? Anyone want to pull up a chair with this one. HEY CHRIS J where are ya. Bring beer with ya.

trailboss
03-20-2009, 12:59 AM
Theres not enough beer for this one.

TXNSLighting
03-20-2009, 10:04 PM
[QUOTE=MAB lawn care;2865583]... maybe just maybe, I would have called and ordered 4-5k of landscape lighting a year.[QUOTE]

Wow! Really? $4k to $5k of product in a year? I had no idea of the volume you were doing over there! :clapping:
Well done, that is quite the business you have built up for yourself. How long have you been installing for?

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

emby
03-23-2009, 03:06 PM
Hey James, try to remember that you can't fix stupid. Now speaking of Mab...Why would you not want some creative and positive suggestions to enter that cranium? We are all professionals and business owners looking to share ideas and help one another so that the end outcome is making our customers happy.
At the end of the day once you fit your ego through your American door you might just understand the above.
Did not think that my first post would be like that..):)

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-23-2009, 07:06 PM
That is quite the first post you have there emby! Welcome to the forum.

If you look down the list of threads there you will come across one that is called Roll Call (well Role Call I think - my mistake) and you can let us all know more about yourself and your business.

It is always nice to have more neighbours on here! Are you down near Brantford?

emby
03-23-2009, 07:29 PM
Sure am James. Just north of Brantford in a small little community of 2000 people. I will have to proceed to the rrroll call and give some input.

I have been a reader of this forum for almost a year now. I think that all of you guys are great for sharing your expertise of the business. I cannot express my thanks enough as I have learned soooo much just from reading all the posts.
I look forward to chatting with you guys this year.

emby

JoeyD
03-23-2009, 07:46 PM
welcome to the site Emby!!

emby
03-23-2009, 07:59 PM
Thanks Joe,
Look forward to chatting with you as well.

browntiger
03-28-2009, 09:57 AM
John Deer huh?

First time in my life I went there for sprinklers parts - I openly told them you guys are Nutz. Contractor discount greatly helps.