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View Full Version : Why don't the pro's use Chevys?


FDuce
03-19-2009, 10:40 AM
I don't want this to be a brand bashing thread...but I'm sure it will become that but here is goes anyway...

Indiana is a hot spot for trailer manufacturers of all types. I've noticed that they hire private drivers to transport trailers. 99.9% of these private drivers use either a Dodge or Ford diesel dulley. Why no Chevys? Is it an engine thing or maybe because Chevys don't have a solid front axle? Also a side observation, you don't see them being used for competition pulling either.

KrayzKajun
03-19-2009, 10:53 AM
its usually just personal preference!
ive owned all three. Started with a ford and know im back to ford!

atasteofnature
03-19-2009, 10:57 AM
I have noticed that as well being up here in northern indiana around the trailer factories and nothing but dodges pulling. I did see one chevy the other day though. I am thinking about a diesel and don't know if I am going to stick my chevy or go with my first love the ford.

Gold86
03-19-2009, 12:05 PM
It is probably because Dodges and Fords (7.3) have the best engine when it comes to reliability and lasting the longest when used on daily basis.

vinny69
03-19-2009, 12:09 PM
they use ford and dodge because then it leaves them something to dream about and that is owning a Chevy

atasteofnature
03-19-2009, 01:20 PM
So thier pulling truck is a ford or dodge but thier daily toy truck at home is thier chevy? :)

ruffs
03-19-2009, 01:32 PM
I drive a Chevy, Ford is a little cheaper. Dodge as a cult following. most ppl i know use ford $2000 cheaper. and a lot of ppl think dodges straite axel 4x4 is better for plowing (less chance of braking) . I know a concreat guy that bought 35 new 06 powerstrokes he had so many probemes with all of them in the first month he sent them all back and bought gmc.

ruffs
03-19-2009, 01:33 PM
they use ford and dodge because then it leaves them something to dream about and that is owning a Chevy

thats how i see it

FDuce
03-19-2009, 02:22 PM
they use ford and dodge because then it leaves them something to dream about and that is owning a Chevy

So you would buy inferior equipment just so you could dream about owning nice stuff? These guys are buying/using Ford and Dodge for a reason, I want to know what that reason is. I wouldn't think they would buy one over the other just to save $2000 when they rely on it to provide for their families.

Petr51488
03-19-2009, 03:19 PM
This thread is going no where fast lol. Its all personal preference. Some people are brand loyal, others look for dealer support, and some people just look at price. THe Public service and energy here uses all fords. From 250's to the 750's. Verizon uses chevy/gmc vans along with the larger 550 trucks. A large road developer (i think) Sanzari, uses mainly ford trucks. I'm pretty sure they have thousands of them. I use gm because they look nice, inside and out, their reliable, and my dealer support is there.

HenryB
03-19-2009, 03:33 PM
Fords and Dodges are cheaper especially when your buying multiple vehicles. It's that simple.

DUSTYCEDAR
03-19-2009, 03:38 PM
FORD IS THE BOMB :weightlifter:

SimonCX
03-19-2009, 04:37 PM
I have both newer chevy and ford diesels and from what I can tell the ford is built to be a work truck and take abuse. The chevy is a grocery getter, thinner metal almost everywhere, paint chips and dents like on no other car or truck that I've seen, doesn't hold a load as well, ifs front end is pos. My ford is 4 years old and has less rust under the body then the chevy that is 6 months. I got the chevy as a backup and estimate truck and thats about all it's good for. Sorry for all the guys who think chevy is the best but if your looking at the new chevy trucks they are not the same as the old ones. My dad had a 87' and that thing was great the new one doesn't compare. This will be my last gm truck for work. My chevy didn't have 600 miles on it when it was pouring water into the cab and driver power window smoking. No wonder they are having so many money problems there new product is garbage.

White Gardens
03-19-2009, 04:50 PM
First off I want to say there is nothing wrong with Chevy.

The way I see it is that Chevy dropped the ball years ago when ford decided to make a super-duty truck.

At the time, the only thing comparable chevy had for GVWR was the top-kick. The 3500 wouldn't touch a 350 for GVWR, then ford came out with a 450.

So, by the time chevy came out with a good diesel (Isuzu, Duramax) and a truck with a higher GVWR, Ford had already created a niche in the market.

Dodge does have a cult following and one reason they pulled as many customers they did was the the cummins diesel. There were a lot of truckers out there who bought them just for that reason.

ruffs
03-19-2009, 08:56 PM
So you would buy inferior equipment just so you could dream about owning nice stuff? These guys are buying/using Ford and Dodge for a reason, I want to know what that reason is. I wouldn't think they would buy one over the other just to save $2000 when they rely on it to provide for their families.

some ppl wont spend a dime to save a dollar. I know a lot of ppl that wouldnt grease thier casters or spindles because they didnt want to spend the $ for grease. I watch a guy spend 2 hours stealing cerial bar samples ot of ppls news paper (TIMMY) yes we saw you and we chuckled the hole time.

gunsworth
03-19-2009, 10:02 PM
First off I want to say there is nothing wrong with Chevy.

The way I see it is that Chevy dropped the ball years ago when ford decided to make a super-duty truck.

At the time, the only thing comparable chevy had for GVWR was the top-kick. The 3500 wouldn't touch a 350 for GVWR, then ford came out with a 450.

So, by the time chevy came out with a good diesel (Isuzu, Duramax) and a truck with a higher GVWR, Ford had already created a niche in the market.

Dodge does have a cult following and one reason they pulled as many customers they did was the the cummins diesel. There were a lot of truckers out there who bought them just for that reason.

Best explanation Ive ever seen on this subject. Way I see it they all have their ups and downs that can be pointed out to death. I think the board right now is about at even as its ever been and you cant go wrong with any of the 3

Big Chris
03-19-2009, 10:22 PM
I don't want this to be a brand bashing thread...but I'm sure it will become that but here is goes anyway...

Indiana is a hot spot for trailer manufacturers of all types. I've noticed that they hire private drivers to transport trailers. 99.9% of these private drivers use either a Dodge or Ford diesel dulley. Why no Chevys? Is it an engine thing or maybe because Chevys don't have a solid front axle? Also a side observation, you don't see them being used for competition pulling either.

I agree for the most part. I spend a lot of time in northern IN and by far the most common truck for trailer transporting is the Dodge. Followed by older 7.3 Fords. I still see quite a few GM trucks though. Have to realize that GM didn't get serious about diesel engines in pickup's until model year 01. Ford and Dodge were already well established in the market. IMO

I will disagree with you about truck pulling though. The Duramax trucks do VERY well. Expecially in the work stock and 2.6 turbo classes. I went to 5 or 6 pulls last year, mostly in northern IN and and southern MI and GM almost always won those classes. The Dodge always gave a strong showing expecially in the bigger turbo (2.8 and up) classes. I only saw one Ford pull well...Most 7.3's had horsepower issues(lack of) and the 6.0 PSD's that I saw had BAD problems with wheelhop.

DuallyVette
03-19-2009, 11:57 PM
When I'm fueling up my GM Duramaxes, the Ford tow truck drivers tell me about all their 6.0 problems. I've seen news stories on TV about Ambulance services have bought extra vehicles and just parked some of their Fords.

ExtExc
03-20-2009, 02:00 AM
agree with henry b and white gardens

Panhead
03-20-2009, 02:10 AM
The Dodge diesel is way more reliable, thats why you see alot of small car carriers use. I opt for solid front axles. I have heard the Chevy IFS are crap, weak control arms, small outter tied rods. I'm a Dodge guy, always had Dodge's but as for trucks, I think Ford and Dodge builds the best today, both feel ridget. A true truck has solid axles. Although, if I get Ford, it won't be with a diesel.

ALLPro Landscaping
03-20-2009, 02:11 AM
I like Chevy but dodge is all the way the strongest diesel I have ever driven.and they have the true diesel in them the cummins. it goes like this for me, dodge Chevy...........................................................................................FORD way at the end

ALLPro Landscaping
03-20-2009, 02:13 AM
Here you go ford had the best on the market, 7.3, then tree huger got involved, and destroyed power stroke,

South Florida Lawns
03-20-2009, 02:28 AM
I have seen all three hauling cars coast to coast, I do see more Dodges than anything else and I know that the 5.9 Cummins gets the best fuel economy than the others.

atasteofnature
03-20-2009, 12:26 PM
i heard if you were to get a Duramax then it needs to be before the 07' model when they changed the emissions. The older Duramax are better? Just hear say.

MBDiagMan
03-20-2009, 02:34 PM
The original poster asked a question that I think was meant more specific than some of you took it.

He asked specifically about the haulers with one tons, not the general use trucks, but specifically the diesel one tons used for high mileage, over the road work.

I am, in general, NOT an open minded person, at least not when it comes to my religion or politics or even my preference for leg beauty as opposed to the other, more commonly admired female anatomy portion. I AM, however, VERY open minded when it comes to vehicle brands. I am not a basher of any, nor really a promoter of any. I feel that I am objective about this subject. I've driven a number of what used to be the "big three" and many other brands besides those.

That said, I personally believe that the reason for GM's weakness in this SPECIFIC niche of the truck market is due to the long reputation of what is NOW called the DURAMAX. I think that the DURAMAX is probably, in todays form, an okay engine, but perception is reality. For many folks, even some GM lovers, the GM V8 diesel brings back memories of probably the worst diesel engine ever put in a US built vehicle. That was the Cadillac/Oldsmobile Diesel V8 of the early eighties. It was a disaster.

The sad thing about it was that GM at the time owned Detroit Diesel, one of that era's best diesel engine makers. All the guys had to do when they were coming up with a diesel for their cars was to walk across the street, or across Detroit or wherever and talk to their cousins who KNEW how to build a good diesel.

Who knows what prevented this from happening, but it didn't happen. INSTEAD, these geniuses, took a GAS engine and tried to make a diesel out of it. Yes an engine which was designed for a 10:1 or so compression ratio, was cobbled into a diesel supposed to withstand more than a 20:1 compression ratio and live under greater low speed torque demands.

They struggled along with this POS engine for a long time and I suppose pride was the only reason they didn't give it a decent burial and go across the street for help to design a good engine from the ground up.

At some point later, I think the early nineties, they modified this same engine and gave it a fancy name DURAMAX. I have not followed that engine much, so for all I know, it will outpull, out economize and outlast the Ford and Dodge offerings 10 to 1, but that doesn't matter because perception is reality.

Folks got the perception in their head that it was the same old Caddy/Olds POS and stayed away from it.

Everyone knows that GM can build good vehicles, but old ideas die hard.

jkilov
03-20-2009, 04:23 PM
Fords and Dodges are cheaper especially when your buying multiple vehicles. It's that simple.
Correct, Ford gives massive discounts to fleets.

On a side note, I've owned Fords all my life. Some of them very poor buys (reliability issues). Yet I continue to drive Ford :hammerhead:.

LCPullman
03-20-2009, 04:23 PM
At some point later, I think the early nineties, they modified this same engine and gave it a fancy name DURAMAX. I have not followed that engine much, so for all I know, it will outpull, out economize and outlast the Ford and Dodge offerings 10 to 1, but that doesn't matter because perception is reality.

Interesting idea . . . But I must beg to differ. The Duramax was an engine jointly developed with Isuzu. It is totally different from any previous GM diesel I've seen. It was new in 2001 as well.
Now I wouldn't know whether the 6.5 might not be what your thinking of, it came out early 90's, though I though it was a Detroit Diesel engine. I know it had a lot of problems, injector pumps, cracked heads, etc.
There is no comparison between the Duramax and the 6.5. According to customer satisfaction reports, the Duramax is the most reliable light-truck diesel being made right now. (compared to the Ford 6.0/6.4 and Dodge 6.7)

LCPullman
03-20-2009, 04:27 PM
i heard if you were to get a Duramax then it needs to be before the 07' model when they changed the emissions. The older Duramax are better? Just hear say.

The reason to get per 07 model is so you don't have the emissions stuff attached. The engine is just as reliable, but the emissions stuff can be a real pain.

MBDiagMan
03-20-2009, 04:43 PM
Interesting idea . . . But I must beg to differ. The Duramax was an engine jointly developed with Isuzu. It is totally different from any previous GM diesel I've seen. It was new in 2001 as well.
Now I wouldn't know whether the 6.5 might not be what your thinking of, it came out early 90's, though I though it was a Detroit Diesel engine. I know it had a lot of problems, injector pumps, cracked heads, etc.
There is no comparison between the Duramax and the 6.5. According to customer satisfaction reports, the Duramax is the most reliable light-truck diesel being made right now. (compared to the Ford 6.0/6.4 and Dodge 6.7)

Thanks for enlightening me about the history and lineage of the engine, but you missed my point. Perception is reality and many people whether they know anything about the new engine or not, think of the crappy old Cad/Olds diesel V8.

BTW, the Cad/Olds engine was just that, it was NOT a Detroit Diesel product.

As I said, the current Duramax might be the end all diesel masterpiece beyond anything ever put in a small truck, but still, many folks will think of the disastrous V8 of the eighties and claim guilt by association.

atasteofnature
03-20-2009, 05:31 PM
Thank you LCPullman for the info.

LCPullman
03-20-2009, 06:05 PM
Thanks for enlightening me about the history and lineage of the engine, but you missed my point. Perception is reality and many people whether they know anything about the new engine or not, think of the crappy old Cad/Olds diesel V8.

BTW, the Cad/Olds engine was just that, it was NOT a Detroit Diesel product.

As I said, the current Duramax might be the end all diesel masterpiece beyond anything ever put in a small truck, but still, many folks will think of the disastrous V8 of the eighties and claim guilt by association.

Yes, I see your point. Perception is very powerful.
However, might we not try to do our best to try and change perceptions that are false? :)

An interesting fact: since the introduction of the Duramax in 2001, GM has gone from 2 or 3% of the light-duty diesel market to 30% or more of the market.

DieselOnly
03-20-2009, 06:11 PM
Interesting idea . . . But I must beg to differ. The Duramax was an engine jointly developed with Isuzu. It is totally different from any previous GM diesel I've seen. It was new in 2001 as well.
Now I wouldn't know whether the 6.5 might not be what your thinking of, it came out early 90's, though I though it was a Detroit Diesel engine. I know it had a lot of problems, injector pumps, cracked heads, etc.
There is no comparison between the Duramax and the 6.5. According to customer satisfaction reports, the Duramax is the most reliable light-truck diesel being made right now. (compared to the Ford 6.0/6.4 and Dodge 6.7)


Late 70's (I wanna say 78) through like 86 was the Olds 350.
82-93 Was the 6.2, good engine, designed by Detroit, and technically built by Detroit for a short time also
92+ Is the 6.5, also good engine, ruined reputation from poor service, most all problems could have been easily avoided or fixed, and are easily avoided and fixed. 92-98 in C/K1500's and SUV's, 00 in CK25 and 3500's, and 02 in vans and C3500HD's. Still in use in Hummer H1's and by the military. AM General actually just introduced a new one that seems to be very strong and an excellent platform.
01-04 Is the LB7 Duramax. Simplist, but did have injector issues that are very expenisve and iffy
04.5-05 Is the LLY Duramax. Similar to LB7 but with EGR and cat converter, has a VVT, injector issues are fixed, tend to overheat though
06-07 Classic is the LLY/LBZ Duramax. They have the 6 speed Allison, and are virtually the same, except the LLY has older LLY horsepower and torque ratings. Considered by most to be the best Duramax
07+ Is the LMM Duramax. Also has the 6 speed, and is found in the new body style trucks. Has all the emissions equipment. Very similar to LBZ.

punt66
03-20-2009, 06:28 PM
Put a cummins infront of an allison and who ever does it first will get my business. Untill then dodge gets my business with a gas engine.

South Florida Lawns
03-21-2009, 02:42 AM
Put a cummins infront of an allison and who ever does it first will get my business. Untill then dodge gets my business with a gas engine.

why don't you put a cummins in fron of the allison? The 5.7 is a f**king joke bro:laugh:

punt66
03-21-2009, 09:21 AM
why don't you put a cummins in fron of the allison? The 5.7 is a f**king joke bro:laugh:
ok Bro. YO YO YO :rolleyes:

unkownfl
03-21-2009, 09:20 PM
Chevy just never had the right stuff un till it was to late. Fords are cheap but the truck it self will out live many drive trains. Dodge has the best engine but the truck falls apart around them. Fords are the cheapest to buy when dealing with fleet or just one truck. Dodge is almost the same price but dealer service sucks because they are bankrupt. General motors is way to expensive for the most part, and the interior of the truck is more of a car then a work truck. Fords are the most work firendly vehicle they spend countless dollars of r&d on making it that way. Yes they got screwed on the navistar engines but they are no where near as unreliable as people say they are the whole he said she said trickles down and everything get blown out of proportion. I worked for Pike which is a power line contractor and we have a thousand 6.0's in the fleet and only the 03/04 had problems when we got the 05/06 the issues with the head gaskets failing went away with the new studs they used. We aquired many GM products from rapid growth of buying smaller contractors and auctioned them off because they werent work worthy. They show to much wear and tear.

johnnybravo8802
03-22-2009, 10:53 AM
The original poster asked a question that I think was meant more specific than some of you took it.

He asked specifically about the haulers with one tons, not the general use trucks, but specifically the diesel one tons used for high mileage, over the road work.

I am, in general, NOT an open minded person, at least not when it comes to my religion or politics or even my preference for leg beauty as opposed to the other, more commonly admired female anatomy portion. I AM, however, VERY open minded when it comes to vehicle brands. I am not a basher of any, nor really a promoter of any. I feel that I am objective about this subject. I've driven a number of what used to be the "big three" and many other brands besides those.

That said, I personally believe that the reason for GM's weakness in this SPECIFIC niche of the truck market is due to the long reputation of what is NOW called the DURAMAX. I think that the DURAMAX is probably, in todays form, an okay engine, but perception is reality. For many folks, even some GM lovers, the GM V8 diesel brings back memories of probably the worst diesel engine ever put in a US built vehicle. That was the Cadillac/Oldsmobile Diesel V8 of the early eighties. It was a disaster.

The sad thing about it was that GM at the time owned Detroit Diesel, one of that era's best diesel engine makers. All the guys had to do when they were coming up with a diesel for their cars was to walk across the street, or across Detroit or wherever and talk to their cousins who KNEW how to build a good diesel.

Who knows what prevented this from happening, but it didn't happen. INSTEAD, these geniuses, took a GAS engine and tried to make a diesel out of it. Yes an engine which was designed for a 10:1 or so compression ratio, was cobbled into a diesel supposed to withstand more than a 20:1 compression ratio and live under greater low speed torque demands.

They struggled along with this POS engine for a long time and I suppose pride was the only reason they didn't give it a decent burial and go across the street for help to design a good engine from the ground up.

At some point later, I think the early nineties, they modified this same engine and gave it a fancy name DURAMAX. I have not followed that engine much, so for all I know, it will outpull, out economize and outlast the Ford and Dodge offerings 10 to 1, but that doesn't matter because perception is reality.

Folks got the perception in their head that it was the same old Caddy/Olds POS and stayed away from it.

Everyone knows that GM can build good vehicles, but old ideas die hard.
The Duramax comment is way off. I thought everyone knew it is made by Isuzu!!:confused:I have had a thread about the lack of Chevy's on the road, especially with the Duramax/Allison combo. I thought that was suppose to be DA BOMB! I grew up hearing Chevy this and Chevy that by every redneck in town. Chevy used to be the cats meow but now you don't hear anything good about them(trucks). They used to have the biggest marketing campaign around-I used to get sick of the "Like a Rock" commercials. Someone really missed the boat several years ago. I agree about the comments of Chevy dropping the ball and Ford and Dodge just passing them by. I don't agree about Ford having thicker metal-I had the opposite experience. My Dodge has been the best truck to date-it has 106,000 on it and people still think it's new;it's still as tight as day one. Every Ford I see sounds hollow when you shut the door-not my Dodge. I hear terrible things about the Ford engines also.:hammerhead:

punt66
03-22-2009, 11:53 AM
The Duramax comment is way off. I thought everyone knew it is made by Isuzu!!:confused:I have had a thread about the lack of Chevy's on the road, especially with the Duramax/Allison combo. I thought that was suppose to be DA BOMB! I grew up hearing Chevy this and Chevy that by every redneck in town. Chevy used to be the cats meow but now you don't hear anything good about them(trucks). They used to have the biggest marketing campaign around-I used to get sick of the "Like a Rock" commercials. Someone really missed the boat several years ago. I agree about the comments of Chevy dropping the ball and Ford and Dodge just passing them by. I don't agree about Ford having thicker metal-I had the opposite experience. My Dodge has been the best truck to date-it has 106,000 on it and people still think it's new;it's still as tight as day one. Every Ford I see sounds hollow when you shut the door-not my Dodge. I hear terrible things about the Ford engines also.:hammerhead:
I own only dodges too but their ALL junk.

igotdiesel2
03-22-2009, 02:30 PM
This is a good thread. I have owned Dodges all my life. Dad worked for Chrysler for 30 years so I got the green slip. That said, in 2001 I bought my first diesel dodge. I have 135,00 miles on it now. I had so many problems with the fuel system it wasn't funny. I am still running the original tranny with no upgrades to the motor or tranny. If you look at why so many transporters run Fords and Dodges I think most of it has to do with money. It costs for more to do upgrades to the duramax than Cummins. It also costs less to get them repaired stock. In my family we own all 3 so I see what everyone does as far as upgrades and upkeep on the trucks. My step brother has a GMC and he lost 3 cylinders for than once on his Duramax. I also deal with transporters in my business so I hear why one uses this one or that. By far the most problems were and are with the 6.0 Powerstroke. That hurt Ford BIG time in the transporter market. I also think that is the main reason Ford dropped Power Stroke. I still say the 2 best looking trucks are the Super Duty crew cab duallys and the 1995 to 2002 Dodge Ram Quad Cab Duallys. -Jason -The above thread is my opinion and mine alone. IF you get 3 guys in a room they will like 3 different trucks, women and beer.

SimonCX
03-22-2009, 05:27 PM
I don't agree about Ford having thicker metal-I had the opposite experience. My Dodge has been the best truck to date-it has 106,000 on it and people still think it's new;it's still as tight as day one. Every Ford I see sounds hollow when you shut the door-not my Dodge. I hear terrible things about the Ford engines also.:hammerhead:


From my experience I have a 05 ford and 08 chevy the the sheetmetal on the chevy seems thinner and cheap. Even closing the hood the chevy feels soft and already has paint spidering by the hood. The paint is chipping alot worse then the old truck also.