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View Full Version : Lawncare hourly rate??? what do you guys get?


Ziob
03-20-2009, 08:50 AM
just curious what you guys get for an hourly rate per man for your basic lawncare. then what you charge for basic labor like fertilizer application, leaf clean-up etc.

just making sure were in the right ballpark area for the northeast or if were to cheap.

Stillwater
03-21-2009, 04:19 AM
this is a question that most will not answer directly or honestly for common sense and competition reasons.

Ball park nation wide for licenced and insured and above board businesses is as low as 30 per man hour to as high as 75.00 or more per man... per hour. and on top of that with some their is also a hourly rate for any type of machine use.

MileHigh
03-21-2009, 10:45 PM
$6.50/hr:drinkup:

I get every job I bid.

THEGOLDPRO
03-21-2009, 10:49 PM
35 per hour per guy. usually

CCC52
03-22-2009, 04:32 AM
35 per hour per guy. usually

Now there's an honest answer. I hold to $25 for older clients I've had for 15-20 years and make sure they know they're not paying top dollar. They've kept me alfloat when times were tough. I have great relationships with those folks though, money is good but relationships are too. I shoot for $35 on average, PIA types often bite on higher bids provided it's a straight bid with no reference to hourly. I'd prefer disclosing the amount but lawncare seems to rank just under 'garbageman' to some folks. I'm a homeowner and I know when I call a professional to do almost anything their hourly is going to be more than mine. But I respect them and pay them for their expertise in their fields. That's life.

If I stuck at $25 across the board I'd be screwed. My home, truck, and tools are all paid for and that's nice but even solo I have to insure all of that along with 2 other vehicles and myself . My meager health insurance runs about $100 more a month than the bare minimum policy I had. If I had fulltime employees and offered such a benefit I'd need to see $50 an hour or more. Guys out there do it and I know why, they've got folks out busting it all day/every day that deserve benefits.

My personal opinion on an hourly rate, it's 2009, $35 or more. Now the folks I mentioned who get the discount? I've maintained their properties for years and years so their properties are in good shape. Bidding new work at their price would be as unfair to them as it would be to myself but I don't look at not raising their rates as a loss. They've kept me, I can look back to harder times and remember when they allowed me to do extras they really might not have wanted but they knew I needed the income. I have a friend that's an all-around handyman. $50 an hour anytime/anyplace, he charges my parents $25 because they floated him some extra work when he was most in need. I never ask a thing of him!

As always, just my opinion. I'm thinking $35 is on the bargain end of the overall spectrum per hour. Works o.k. for my needs at this point.

scagwildcat
03-22-2009, 09:52 AM
were in ct are you located?
your hourly price is up to you, only you can know what you need to cover your costs,and what you want to make in the end. i have a base hourly rate that i use to estimate jobs, but the customer doeasnt know it!

THEGOLDPRO
03-22-2009, 12:27 PM
also let me say i use a ton of variables to decide how much i want to make an hour, i dont just stick to 35, some jobs i will price per hour if i cant decide how long it will take us, or if it looks like a pita, other that i know how long it will take i will charge a flat price, like say 350 for spring cleanup on said yard.

other variables i use are how much of a pain in the ass are the customer going to be to me??? it sounds funny but we have what we like to call an azzhole tax, which can be more or less depending on how much of an azzhole the guy is.

lawnpro724
03-22-2009, 01:28 PM
$50 per man hr $5hr large equipment $2hr small equipment and $.75per mile driven if out of city limits.

SilverPeakServices
03-23-2009, 05:12 PM
I charge $35 per man hour. That is enough to cover costs and make a profit. Anything below that and you are only hurting yourself.

The azzhole tax is something to keep in mind. That is a great idea!!

grasschopperofchicago
03-23-2009, 05:25 PM
I charge $35 per man hour. That is enough to cover costs and make a profit. Anything below that and you are only hurting yourself.

The azzhole tax is something to keep in mind. That is a great idea!!

$35.00@hour?...seriously?...that is almost like working for free if you are paying someone!
Generally this industry is about $60-75 per hour for Lawn Care to make a profit, if you are solo you may be able to work for $35.00 @hour but after taxes, insurance, equipment depreciation, gas, licensing, printing and advertising costs, misc fees, maintenance on equipment, such as oil, filters, grease, new belts, tires, oh and your blowers and trimmers I would rather work at Best Buy and get the cost on their products than to bust my ass outside for $9.25 per hour!!---that's if I charged $35.00--sorry I can't live off of $900 a week for 100 hours of work!!---on a 30 week schedule!--that is $27k!--I am near $1.50 per minute with a 2 man crew on average from last year...which is near the $75.00 mark and I don't do anything but cut for that, additonal services such as Spring and Fall Cleanups are charged accordingly by the job, but closer to $100-120 per hour.

$35 per hour in a 72 hour week for me is $2520.00 per week taking out employee salary of $12.00 and $10 per hour would be $864.00 for one and $720 for the other...total $1584.00 and now I have to pay taxes, workmans comp, insurance, unemployment tax, advertising out of my portion?..no thanks friend!!...

72-100hours x $75.00 hour = $5400-$7500 a week gross...that's how I roll with 133 accounts
If my guys hustle and we are moving I can do 3 lawns an hour in same subdivision, making $120-160 for that hour, if I were solo I am at $65 minimal with my expenses, and that isn't financing any equipment or truck payment we pay cash or use 0%

Whitey4
03-23-2009, 09:46 PM
I use man hour chrages only for one time jobs. I rarely take the one time deals.

I know what my market rates are. I know my quality is better. I look at an account as a yearly account, not as a per hour quote. Will I be doing all ferts and pesticides? Will I get a mulching job? Annual plantings? Design and shrub/tree installs?

I try to project the total dollar potential of an account. If I know it's a mow and blow only, with little to no chance of other work (I ALWAYS find a way to get "other" work) I price it at just above the average market rate. Around here, that usually works out to about $50 an hour if I hustle.

I am market driven. I don't base a number on my overhead and time, what drives my pricing schedule is what the competition is charging in my area. I go just a bit higher. Sometimes I work for $40 an hour, sometimes $100 or more. For me it's all about selling premuin profitablity jobs to my regular maintenance customers.

I will, WILL talk to customers and get a couple of flats of annuals sold. I will get mulching jobs. I will get transplants from over crowded foundation beds and new plant installs.

It's the chicken or the eggs situation for me. What matters, is at the end of the year, did I make $80 an hour? On each account? Gee Mrs Leary, those apples sure do make a mess. You don't use them, do you? I can spray a fruit inhibitor, and that would help a lot. You still get the lovely flowers, but little to no fruit on the lawn. $60 bucks, 10 minutes, material cost= $15. $270 an hour.

:cool2: But I might cut her 3k lawn for $25. Then I'll get an english ivy eradication from her too. 3 apps, and a ripout. Takes about 1.0 hours total. Billing is $95.

ncls
03-23-2009, 10:01 PM
$35.00@hour?...seriously?...that is almost like working for free if you are paying someone!
Generally this industry is about $60-75 per hour for Lawn Care to make a profit, if you are solo you may be able to work for $35.00 @hour but after taxes, insurance, equipment depreciation, gas, licensing, printing and advertising costs, misc fees, maintenance on equipment, such as oil, filters, grease, new belts, tires, oh and your blowers and trimmers I would rather work at Best Buy and get the cost on their products than to bust my ass outside for $9.25 per hour!!---that's if I charged $35.00--sorry I can't live off of $900 a week for 100 hours of work!!---on a 30 week schedule!--that is $27k!--I am near $1.50 per minute with a 2 man crew on average from last year...which is near the $75.00 mark and I don't do anything but cut for that, additonal services such as Spring and Fall Cleanups are charged accordingly by the job, but closer to $100-120 per hour.

$35 per hour in a 72 hour week for me is $2520.00 per week taking out employee salary of $12.00 and $10 per hour would be $864.00 for one and $720 for the other...total $1584.00 and now I have to pay taxes, workmans comp, insurance, unemployment tax, advertising out of my portion?..no thanks friend!!...

72-100hours x $75.00 hour = $5400-$7500 a week gross...that's how I roll with 133 accounts
If my guys hustle and we are moving I can do 3 lawns an hour in same subdivision, making $120-160 for that hour, if I were solo I am at $65 minimal with my expenses, and that isn't financing any equipment or truck payment we pay cash or use 0%

He's saying 35 per man, per hour. That's 70 for a two man crew. You two are not that far off.

PTP
03-23-2009, 10:30 PM
Today, my helper and I grossed $96/hour including drive time. I would say that is about average.

RLS24
03-24-2009, 06:59 PM
I charge $40/man hour. You really need to figure out your overhead and what you NEED to charge to make money. If you charge $35 an hour and you are loosing your ass on every job and have more expenses than income, then you're not charging enough. No sense in taking work that you will make $35 an hour for when it costs you $45 or $50 to operate your business. Its a fine balance between knowing what you NEED to make money, what the other people are willing to pay, and what is competitive with other people in your area.

citygreenlandscaping
03-24-2009, 07:45 PM
If your not making about $60 to $70 per man hour you can't make it. You need to talk to your CPA to find out all your cost. It's money well spent.

Whitey4
03-24-2009, 07:56 PM
If your not making about $60 to $70 per man hour you can't make it. You need to talk to your CPA to find out all your cost. It's money well spent.

It seems to me like a lot of folks are figuring overhead, and that is what determines the pricing schedule. I think while costs are obviously extremely improtant, the equation has to dove tail in with market rates and account potential. These things have to all come together, and one thing cannot dictate pricing. If one's overhead is too high, he can not compete at market rates. One has to look at market rates, and then back into how much overhead costs are acceptable.

There is something completely lost here too... ever heard of a loss leader? The supermarkets will put something on sale at a VERY low price, they actually lose money on it. The idea is that once a shopper is in the building, they will buy more items. I'm not suggesting mowing at a loss, but this strategy can work in our market to some extent as well.

Upselling is where I find my biggest profits. I can come close to a lowballer's price IF I know I can get some installs, mulchings, etc. It's all about how much you make per hour per ACCOUNT on the year, not on a single day or one job.

tarheel01
03-24-2009, 08:35 PM
I charge a dollar a minute for every minute my equipment is off the trailer. I work a two man crew if it takes us 45 minutes to cut, blow, and edge the yard is $45.00. But i do have a $ 35.00 min.

White Gardens
03-25-2009, 12:35 AM
$35.00@hour?...seriously?...that is almost like working for free if you are paying someone!




Your in Chicago, and I bet your cost of living is way higher than say, someone down state, like me. My cost of living has got to be almost half as yours, and that goes for my customers too.

So again there is another variable.

lawnfreak09
03-25-2009, 10:47 AM
$1 a min. from the time the gate hits the ground. or try to anyway

ECS
03-25-2009, 11:49 AM
I set a goal of $75/hr for all mowing. In 2008 it averaged out to $84.15/hr. I do absolutely no bagging, all side discharge. The only bagging I do is spring and fall cleanup.

For spring cleanup, my goal was $95/hr. In 2008 I averaged $108.13/hr. plus a disposal fee based on the weight and time to haul away.

For fall cleanup, my goal was $95/hr. In 2008 I averaged $106.21/hr. plus a disposal fee based on the weight and time to haul away.

For any just labor jobs, no equipment, I charge $40/hr

Any and all irrigation work, repairs & add ons (no installs) is $65/hr pus parts at 2 1/2 times cost.

Plowing is $120/hr. min 20 min. which gives me an average of $175/hr

Shoveling and snowblowing = $75/hr.

Stillwater
03-25-2009, 01:14 PM
I am surprised at how many guys are willing to advertise/disclose their rates....

Big Bad Bob
03-25-2009, 02:09 PM
$6.50/hr:drinkup:

I get every job I bid.

And you live in a van down by the river!!!:)

White Gardens
03-25-2009, 03:16 PM
I am surprised at how many guys are willing to advertise/disclose their rates....

Why not, business is business. Is there any reason not to be honest about what you charge??

If a customer questions my hourly rate, then they can't afford it.

Stillwater
03-25-2009, 06:20 PM
Why not, business is business. Is there any reason not to be honest about what you charge??

If a customer questions my hourly rate, then they can't afford it.



oh I don't know maybe 30 years in landscape contracting has shown me that I am harder to compete against if my operation is a question mark to my competitors. Disclosing to customers is 1 thing when absolutely necessary blabbing to the world is another. Honesty has absolutely nothing to do with this.

You say if a customer questions your hourly rate they can't afford it? that's a childish and ******ed statement. That's like saying if you need to look at gas prices you can't afford gas. Bottom line.......I know what your rates are you don't know mine. care to share your business plan and model as well?

Whitey4
03-25-2009, 08:08 PM
oh I don't know maybe 30 years in landscape contracting has shown me that I am harder to compete against if my operation is a question mark to my competitors. Disclosing to customers is 1 thing when absolutely necessary blabbing to the world is another. Honesty has absolutely nothing to do with this.

You say if a customer questions your hourly rate they can't afford it? that's a childish and ******ed statement. That's like saying if you need to look at gas prices you can't afford gas. Bottom line.......I know what your rates are you don't know mine. care to share your business plan and model as well?

If you were in my area, I would know the market rate for a given property. I don't need to know your prices. I know what the market will bear. Besides that, market prices vary widely across the country. One can't go on the internet and ask what they should bid on a job, because it depends so much on the location and the local market rates.

Then all I would have to do is look at a few of your customer properties. I could nail your weekly charge within a dollar. That holds for residentials, but not for commercial accounts, which is not my market anyway.

Although it falls on deaf ears, I'll say it again. For a regular weekly account, what matters is how much you billed vs. time in an ANNUAL assessment. Not by one job, or the weekly mowing fee.

Stillwater
03-25-2009, 09:06 PM
[QUOTE=Whitey4;2880931]If you were in my area, I would know the market rate for a given property. I don't need to know your prices. I know what the market will bear. Besides that, market prices vary widely across the country. One can't go on the internet and ask what they should bid on a job, because it depends so much on the location and the local market rates.
QUOTE]


Sure for maintence But I am a Landscape Contractor their is a difference between that and a mowing operation

White Gardens
03-25-2009, 10:29 PM
oh I don't know maybe 30 years in landscape contracting has shown me that I am harder to compete against if my operation is a question mark to my competitors. Disclosing to customers is 1 thing when absolutely necessary blabbing to the world is another. Honesty has absolutely nothing to do with this.

You say if a customer questions your hourly rate they can't afford it? that's a childish and ******ed statement. That's like saying if you need to look at gas prices you can't afford gas. Bottom line.......I know what your rates are you don't know mine. care to share your business plan and model as well?



If you lived here you would find out pretty quickly your style wouldn't fly. It's mostly blue-collared here, and people have a general idea of what things cost and what the market value is. Somebody knows somebody that does any sort of work you can think of, be it a home builder, landscape contractor, plumber, etc... There aren't too many customers out there that don't have a clue like other areas of the country.

I have no problems disclosing what I charge, if a customer asks and you don't tell, then 9 times out of ten they'll drop you like a fly and find someone who will tell them what they charge.

When I do maintenance on a weekly basis, people want a general idea of what I charge. They don't want to be hammered with a bill that they can't afford just because I wasn't up front on how much I charge.

When I do installs, all my labor is ballpark. It can vary, but I'm not going to overcharge more than 10 percent of my bids unless my customers know ahead of time.

When I made the statement that customers can't afford my services if they ask my hourly rate, that's a general statement. I get a lot of people who want to spend the same amount of money on me as they would a 12 year old raking leaves. That doesn't fly with me. If I'm childish, then my customers must be too.

I disclose on here what I charge only because there are other aspiring business owners out there that want to charge what they are worth. That is one of the great things about this site, to give advice, and to learn.

I've heard time and time again, "go get experience working for someone else", well that can be a waste of time when your trying to start a biz and make it work. It is also one of the best ways to tick off your competition, go work for them, leave, and compete against them.

Oh, and I only mow a few accounts....

Now, with all that said, was there any reason to bash me...........................................

Whitey4
03-26-2009, 01:05 AM
[QUOTE=Whitey4;2880931]If you were in my area, I would know the market rate for a given property. I don't need to know your prices. I know what the market will bear. Besides that, market prices vary widely across the country. One can't go on the internet and ask what they should bid on a job, because it depends so much on the location and the local market rates.
QUOTE]


Sure for maintence But I am a Landscape Contractor their is a difference between that and a mowing operation

Well, you did not make that clear. I also would never discuss how much I mark up plants and shrubs for designs and installs. I am a fert n squirt fully legal), full maintenance and a soft landscaping outfit. So, I am much more than a mowing operation, thank you.

But... what continues to get lost in this thread is the fact that since I offer one stop shopping for most services, most of my bed designs and installs (about 99%) never even have a second bidder. I lock up the account, and go from there, but that is not to say I rip people off, either. My customers know once the plants are in, I won't disappear.

To be strictly on the LS contractor side is a whole different ball game. Much higher overhead, much more competitive in a down market like this one is now. But, I won't say much more, as I also would not want to give my biz plan away either.

tobylou8
03-26-2009, 04:48 PM
$35.00@hour?...seriously?...that is almost like working for free if you are paying someone!
Generally this industry is about $60-75 per hour for Lawn Care to make a profit, if you are solo you may be able to work for $35.00 @hour but after taxes, insurance, equipment depreciation, gas, licensing, printing and advertising costs, misc fees, maintenance on equipment, such as oil, filters, grease, new belts, tires, oh and your blowers and trimmers I would rather work at Best Buy and get the cost on their products than to bust my ass outside for $9.25 per hour!!---that's if I charged $35.00--sorry I can't live off of $900 a week for 100 hours of work!!---on a 30 week schedule!--that is $27k!--I am near $1.50 per minute with a 2 man crew on average from last year...which is near the $75.00 mark and I don't do anything but cut for that, additonal services such as Spring and Fall Cleanups are charged accordingly by the job, but closer to $100-120 per hour.

$35 per hour in a 72 hour week for me is $2520.00 per week taking out employee salary of $12.00 and $10 per hour would be $864.00 for one and $720 for the other...total $1584.00 and now I have to pay taxes, workmans comp, insurance, unemployment tax, advertising out of my portion?..no thanks friend!!...

72-100hours x $75.00 hour = $5400-$7500 a week gross...that's how I roll with 133 accounts
If my guys hustle and we are moving I can do 3 lawns an hour in same subdivision, making $120-160 for that hour, if I were solo I am at $65 minimal with my expenses, and that isn't financing any equipment or truck payment we pay cash or use 0%

Great answer. I used to work solo for 35/hour, but tired of pb&j all the time:rolleyes:!

tobylou8
03-26-2009, 04:59 PM
just curious what you guys get for an hourly rate per man for your basic lawncare. then what you charge for basic labor like fertilizer application, leaf clean-up etc.

just making sure were in the right ballpark area for the northeast or if were to cheap.

You sound like a poser. You have all that equipment and don't know what to charge? If you really do not know what to charge, you won't be here long. We had a guy like you in a local organization and he drove a lot of people out. He was always asking that same question! But since I am a nice guy (all southerners are, by birth:)) and you"re not in my area heres some advice. Start bidding jobs. If you get them all, you are too low. Don't get many, well...

scagwildcat
03-27-2009, 03:53 PM
im in ct, asked him what part he was from and he didnt answer, i wonder why? hummmm!

tobylou8
03-27-2009, 11:00 PM
im in ct, asked him what part he was from and he didnt answer, i wonder why? hummmm!

cuz he don't know?:rolleyes:

Ziob
03-28-2009, 10:31 AM
oh I don't know maybe 30 years in landscape contracting has shown me that I am harder to compete against if my operation is a question mark to my competitors. Disclosing to customers is 1 thing when absolutely necessary blabbing to the world is another. Honesty has absolutely nothing to do with this.

You say if a customer questions your hourly rate they can't afford it? that's a childish and ******ed statement. That's like saying if you need to look at gas prices you can't afford gas. Bottom line.......I know what your rates are you don't know mine. care to share your business plan and model as well?

business is business i agree if your doing your job right like we do i can give you my entire business plan model and customer list your not going to get any of my customers even if your going to save them a little money as its all about the relationship.

Ziob
03-28-2009, 10:37 AM
was gone all week were in Clinton, Ct fellow worker logged into the forum and asked he's a nimrod was funny to read all the responses though way to stir up the argument :) we know what to charge and as far as the previous comment we don't get all our bids cuz were not cheap undercutters like alot of newbies out there who underbid everyone and drive the market down then find out crap with insurance and operating costs i'm losing money and am still broke after a 50 hour work week.. they learn fast.

as far as people giving up their info don't think its a big deal around here everyone is about the same except the undercutters its more about the quality of service and the way you do business vs soeone saving 5 bucks on a mowing.

tobylou8
03-28-2009, 11:02 AM
was gone all week were in Clinton, Ct fellow worker logged into the forum and asked he's a nimrod was funny to read all the responses though way to stir up the argument :) we know what to charge and as far as the previous comment we don't get all our bids cuz were not cheap undercutters like alot of newbies out there who underbid everyone and drive the market down then find out crap with insurance and operating costs i'm losing money and am still broke after a 50 hour work week.. they learn fast.

as far as people giving up their info don't think its a big deal around here everyone is about the same except the undercutters its more about the quality of service and the way you do business vs soeone saving 5 bucks on a mowing.

Hmmm. Sounds like your "nimrod" is looking to go out on his own (and take as many clients as possible). I would make "nimrod" sign a no compete contract. Then you'll find out how loyal he/she is! One of my LCO buddies jokes that he's trained half the LCO's in central Va. Making them sign a no compete contact as a condition of employment slowed it way down. Watch your back!

MarkintheGarden
03-28-2009, 03:01 PM
Hmmm. Sounds like your "nimrod" is looking to go out on his own (and take as many clients as possible). I would make "nimrod" sign a no compete contract. Then you'll find out how loyal he/she is! One of my LCO buddies jokes that he's trained half the LCO's in central Va. Making them sign a no compete contact as a condition of employment slowed it way down. Watch your back!


I think that no compete clauses can be a good idea, but in reality they are almost useless.

Judges like to over rule unreasonable no compete clauses. Even if the clause is reasonable, who is going to go to court over it. It would take an exceptional situation for it to be worth the time and money.

tobylou8
03-28-2009, 07:11 PM
I think that no compete clauses can be a good idea, but in reality they are almost useless.

Judges like to over rule unreasonable no compete clauses. Even if the clause is reasonable, who is going to go to court over it. It would take an exceptional situation for it to be worth the time and money.

If he takes 50k in accounts I would most certainly go after him! I have a lawyer do mine and they are very simple and straightforward, and enforcable. The average "nimrod" would probably be deterred.:

humble1
03-29-2009, 12:34 AM
know what your overhead is and what you need to make, dont price yourself based on compitition (drunk spelling)

Big Bad Bob
03-29-2009, 12:43 AM
know what your overhead is and what you need to make, dont price yourself based on compitition (drunk spelling)

"BUSH HATERS TAKE OFF YOUR OBAMA BEER GOGGLES-COME TO THINK OF IT THERE ONCE WAS ANOTHER POPULAR COMMUNITY ORGANIZER THAT FAVORED SOCIALISM- HIS NAME WAS ADOLF HITLER-:"

Oh come on. :laugh::drinkup::laugh::drinkup::laugh::drinkup::laugh::drinkup::dizzy:

MarkintheGarden
03-29-2009, 05:05 AM
If he takes 50k in accounts I would most certainly go after him! I have a lawyer do mine and they are very simple and straightforward, and enforcable. The average "nimrod" would probably be deterred.:

Yes, that is the kind of scenario that makes the lawsuit worth pursuing, but it is not a guarantee that you would win the case, and if you do win, can you collect?

tobylou8
03-29-2009, 11:58 PM
Yes, that is the kind of scenario that makes the lawsuit worth pursuing, but it is not a guarantee that you would win the case, and if you do win, can you collect?

Well, if the judge ruled in my favor on that amount of money and the "nimrod" didn't pay, I would take him back to the judge as many times as needed to get my money.Judges don't "appreciate" their rulings being ignored.
Life has few gaurantees but I will still make a new hire sign one as a part of the interview process.If they hesitate, I won't hire them!That simple.

Stillwater
03-30-2009, 12:44 AM
Judges are not the wheels of enforcement the Clerk of court is.
you use the term Nimrod alot......Nimrod is the son of Cush, grandson of Ham, great-grandson of Noah; and known as "a mighty one on the earth" and "a mighty hunter before the Lord". Nimrod is the founder and king of the first empire after the Flood, and his realm is connected with the Mesopotamian towns Babylon (Babel), Uruk, Akkad and Calneh. He is mentioned in the Table of Nations (Genesis 10), where he is said to have founded many cities. But you knew that right? or do you mean Nimrod as a "silly" person.

tobylou8
03-30-2009, 12:56 AM
Judges are not the wheels of enforcement the Clerk of court is.
you use the term Nimrod alot......Nimrod is the son of Cush, grandson of Ham, great-grandson of Noah; and known as "a mighty one on the earth" and "a mighty hunter before the Lord". Nimrod is the founder and king of the first empire after the Flood, and his realm is connected with the Mesopotamian towns Babylon (Babel), Uruk, Akkad and Calneh. He is mentioned in the Table of Nations (Genesis 10), where he is said to have founded many cities. But you knew that right? or do you mean Nimrod as a "silly" person.

Actually,I did know that about Nimrod, but in the context of this thread I meant "moron",but that is such an overused word, so I chose "nimrod". Since you are correcting me, I'll return the favor, A LOT is two words, not one "nimrod"!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Stillwater
03-30-2009, 01:01 AM
Actually,I did know that about Nimrod, but in the context of this thread I meant "moron",but that is such an overused word, so I chose "nimrod". Since you are correcting me, I'll return the favor, A LOT is two words, not one "nimrod"!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

thats funny... it fits.....I been called worse........

MarkintheGarden
03-30-2009, 10:08 AM
Well, if the judge ruled in my favor on that amount of money and the "nimrod" didn't pay, I would take him back to the judge as many times as needed to get my money.Judges don't "appreciate" their rulings being ignored.
Life has few gaurantees but I will still make a new hire sign one as a part of the interview process.If they hesitate, I won't hire them!That simple.

If the judge ruled in your favor for that large sum and the nimrod (aka moron) just does not have the money, you can go to the judge again and again and accumulate legal fees and court costs and still not get your money.

Now lets be reasonable and talk about a likely or even common scenario:
You hire a guy named pedro and after a couple months of working for you he quits, and at the same time, three of your customers cancel service. A week later, you see pedro in a truck with another guy, who also used to work for you and they are out mowing lawns and trying to steal your customers.

So what are you going to do? Go to court? Go to Judge Judy, if you even call your lawyer, it will cost you a hundred bucks.

tobylou8
03-30-2009, 10:41 AM
If the judge ruled in your favor for that large sum and the nimrod (aka moron) just does not have the money, you can go to the judge again and again and accumulate legal fees and court costs and still not get your money.

Now lets be reasonable and talk about a likely or even common scenario:
You hire a guy named pedro and after a couple months of working for you he quits, and at the same time, three of your customers cancel service. A week later, you see pedro in a truck with another guy, who also used to work for you and they are out mowing lawns and trying to steal your customers.

So what are you going to do? Go to court? Go to Judge Judy, if you even call your lawyer, it will cost you a hundred bucks.

Look, thats what I do. If you don't want to,fine. My wife is an attorney (I am not) so I defer to her in legal matters. I just love the " woulda, coulda, shoulda " responses because you KNOW what the judge is going to do in each and every scenario! I have never had to go after a former employee for stealing even one client. Hmm! Thats why I made the suggestion. It seems to work for me (been an LCO 14 yrs). You can put PCB's, I mean milorganite on your lawns. I don't care.Do what you want.

MarkintheGarden
03-30-2009, 07:35 PM
Look, thats what I do. If you don't want to,fine. My wife is an attorney (I am not) so I defer to her in legal matters. I just love the " woulda, coulda, shoulda " responses because you KNOW what the judge is going to do in each and every scenario! I have never had to go after a former employee for stealing even one client. Hmm! Thats why I made the suggestion. It seems to work for me (been an LCO 14 yrs). You can put PCB's, I mean milorganite on your lawns. I don't care.Do what you want.

Have you never heard the word discussion? Nobody cares what other people do and there is no need to mention it.

I was simply discussing the merits and lack of merit involved in the non compete clause. If you do not want to discuss it stop posting.

I never said what I do, what you should do, or that I know what a judge will do in any case much less every.

But I guess I was wrong to think it will cost you money to call your lawyer.

So cheer up, and let those of us who do not have pro bono legal services have our own opinions.

Milorganite?

CGlisson
03-30-2009, 08:40 PM
Making sure you cover overhead is a given. On top of that, CHARGE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN!!

My competition charges $67 per man hour and I charge just under that. I seem like the "cheap" guy and I'm making good money.

Prices only seem high to customers when there's someone willing to do it for less.

tobylou8
03-31-2009, 12:31 AM
Have you never heard the word discussion? Nobody cares what other people do and there is no need to mention it.

I was simply discussing the merits and lack of merit involved in the non compete clause. If you do not want to discuss it stop posting.

I never said what I do, what you should do, or that I know what a judge will do in any case much less every.

But I guess I was wrong to think it will cost you money to call your lawyer.

So cheer up, and let those of us who do not have pro bono legal services have our own opinions.

Milorganite?

I apologize for the snarky reply. My bad. I had just been in the organic forum when I got your reply :laugh: ! If I had to pay for legal services then my threshold may be higher. Would I go after Pedro and his "crew" for taking a couple of mow'n blows? Probably not because those clients would not come back anyway. They were not loyal to begin with. The merits are not really in enforcement but as a tool in the hiring process. Heres a scenario I have personally had. A guy comes to me looking for a job and has plenty of experience. He even brags that he used to have his own LCO. I find out he still has a few clients he "just does on weekends". I asked how many, he said 20!Hmm. How do you get them all done and still go to church on Sunday? He said I gotta buddy who helps me sometimes.Hmm. Then I acted all interesed about how he ran his ops and his equipment. He rambled on about his stuff to the extent he forgot this was a job interview and told about the new "z" mower he just bought. I said it sounds like you're building not shutting down! He fumbled a little bit and came up with lame excuses , his yard was big, etc.. I put the "no compete clause " on the table and he wanted to know what it was. I made it sound like I could get his house and first-born if he signed it and then stole clients. He wouldn't sign it and I avoided huge problems. Was it enforcable, no! Did it save part of my business? Absolutely. Again it's just a tool. Milorganite was the source of my snippy response. It is an "organic" biosolid that contains heavy metal (not organic or healthy), PCB's,dioxin, bromine and human disease (none of that is good for you).And that is AFTER they clean it up! The EPA will not allow it to be used on cropland without boatloads of permits and monitoring. EPA also said they coulnd't gaurentee the public safety if it was used! The organic guys were telling me how "harmful" synthetic fert was, yet singing the praises of milorganite/biosolids and that putting it on peoples lawns was good for the environment! Think of biosolids as human poo mixed with anything else that people can and do flush down a toilet or rinse down a sink. Hope this adds to the discussion and I apolgize again.

Stillwater
03-31-2009, 02:10 AM
ok now that everyone has made nice.... time for a group hug......

MarkintheGarden
03-31-2009, 09:15 AM
I apologize for the snarky reply. My bad. I had just been in the organic forum when I got your reply :laugh: ! If I had to pay for legal services then my threshold may be higher. Would I go after Pedro and his "crew" for taking a couple of mow'n blows? Probably not because those clients would not come back anyway. They were not loyal to begin with. The merits are not really in enforcement but as a tool in the hiring process. Heres a scenario I have personally had. A guy comes to me looking for a job and has plenty of experience. He even brags that he used to have his own LCO. I find out he still has a few clients he "just does on weekends". I asked how many, he said 20!Hmm. How do you get them all done and still go to church on Sunday? He said I gotta buddy who helps me sometimes.Hmm. Then I acted all interesed about how he ran his ops and his equipment. He rambled on about his stuff to the extent he forgot this was a job interview and told about the new "z" mower he just bought. I said it sounds like you're building not shutting down! He fumbled a little bit and came up with lame excuses , his yard was big, etc.. I put the "no compete clause " on the table and he wanted to know what it was. I made it sound like I could get his house and first-born if he signed it and then stole clients. He wouldn't sign it and I avoided huge problems. Was it enforcable, no! Did it save part of my business? Absolutely. Again it's just a tool. Milorganite was the source of my snippy response. It is an "organic" biosolid that contains heavy metal (not organic or healthy), PCB's,dioxin, bromine and human disease (none of that is good for you).And that is AFTER they clean it up! The EPA will not allow it to be used on cropland without boatloads of permits and monitoring. EPA also said they coulnd't gaurentee the public safety if it was used! The organic guys were telling me how "harmful" synthetic fert was, yet singing the praises of milorganite/biosolids and that putting it on peoples lawns was good for the environment! Think of biosolids as human poo mixed with anything else that people can and do flush down a toilet or rinse down a sink. Hope this adds to the discussion and I apolgize again.

No problem, and I agree that the merit of the non compete may be in having an understanding, and having it on paper can only help. This is probably true with most of the agreements and contracts that we make.

When I took a business law class the professor, a state supreme court judge taught that many non compete agreements get tossed out or modified in court for being too far reaching, meaning too large of an area or market being protected in the agreement. He said that the courts will allow you to protect your clientele and area, but going beyond that could be considered restraint of trade.

Well since we have hijacked this thread already, the one thing I know about milorganite, is do not let your dog get into it. I had a bag of it around for some time (I have experimented with it but never found a use for it where another product did not prove to be better) and one day my dog got into it and ate some. Made him sick for a couple days and he could not keep his next two meals down.

As for the topic of this thread, I used to have one hourly rate, now my rates vary from 40.00 to 60.00 per hour. I charge the higher rate when I have to move heavy material or use shovels.

tobylou8
03-31-2009, 10:59 AM
No problem, and I agree that the merit of the non compete may be in having an understanding, and having it on paper can only help. This is probably true with most of the agreements and contracts that we make.

When I took a business law class the professor, a state supreme court judge taught that many non compete agreements get tossed out or modified in court for being too far reaching, meaning too large of an area or market being protected in the agreement. He said that the courts will allow you to protect your clientele and area, but going beyond that could be considered restraint of trade.

Well since we have hijacked this thread already, the one thing I know about milorganite, is do not let your dog get into it. I had a bag of it around for some time (I have experimented with it but never found a use for it where another product did not prove to be better) and one day my dog got into it and ate some. Made him sick for a couple days and he could not keep his next two meals down.

As for the topic of this thread, I used to have one hourly rate, now my rates vary from 40.00 to 60.00 per hour. I charge the higher rate when I have to move heavy material or use shovels.

I price my jobs at 40/hr., give the client a price which the client thinks is reasonable (it is) and then try to "beat" my estimate. I price routine maintence jobs based on sq. footage or acreage. If its a job I don't want (cleaning out ivy beds in July!)I shoot astronomically high so I don't get it, but if I do get it I make a mint! Hope your dog is okay. Hope he doesn't need charcoal remediation :laugh::laugh:!

arcadialady
03-31-2009, 05:32 PM
I charge $30. per man per hour for all labor and that is calculated into the cost for lawn maintenance as well. I have a 3 man crew including myself. The minimum charge for a lawn is $40. Though I do have a couple of senior citizens I discount for. Fertilizing costs are double the cost per bag used and that includes labor. It works for me and have had no complaints over the years. Hope this helps
Dianne

Big Bad Bob
03-31-2009, 06:18 PM
I charge $30. per man per hour for all labor and that is calculated into the cost for lawn maintenance as well. I have a 3 man crew including myself. The minimum charge for a lawn is $40. Though I do have a couple of senior citizens I discount for. Fertilizing costs are double the cost per bag used and that includes labor. It works for me and have had no complaints over the years. Hope this helps
Dianne

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

All well and good if you pay $40.00 for a 20 lb bag of fert.

MarkintheGarden
03-31-2009, 07:39 PM
I price my jobs at 40/hr., give the client a price which the client thinks is reasonable (it is) and then try to "beat" my estimate. I price routine maintence jobs based on sq. footage or acreage. If its a job I don't want (cleaning out ivy beds in July!)I shoot astronomically high so I don't get it, but if I do get it I make a mint! Hope your dog is okay. Hope he doesn't need charcoal remediation :laugh::laugh:!

This is what I live for, the chance to bid high, still get the work and the customer and I are both happy.

Yes, the dog (still kind of a puppy) is much better and back to being a happy pain in the neck. The worst part was he puked up the milorganite all over my basement and when it gets wet that stuff stinks to high heaven.