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View Full Version : Will YELLOW PAGE collapse cause you pain ??


mdvaden
03-21-2009, 07:56 PM
Between people I talk to and feedback on the internet, I'm under the impression that the Yellow Pages may be on the verge of collapse just like some newspapers.

Comments I hear from people in our trade indicate that many green trade business owners are not thrilled with the Yellow Pages - what it yields in return for the investment.

At our house, we have been given two books already in just months. The only reason they come out of the plastic bag is to put them immediately into the recycling bin.

It seems that if the Yellow Pages folds, it could be really bad for some companies who get their best results from it.

Carolina Cuts
03-21-2009, 08:12 PM
maybe it'll force em' to lower their damn rates...

I myself have never advertised in the book... but I have a friend who did..... says it cost almost $2,000.00 for 2 years. He received 1 phone call and TRULY believes it was nothing more then a bogus call from someone within the yellow pages company.

The caller talked about how great the ad was, and he was so glad he found him in the yellow pages. And yet, never asked for an estimate on getting his trees cut down. hahahhaah

THC
03-21-2009, 08:27 PM
I have advertised in the Yellow Pages and it did pay for itself and I suppose if you have people to do the work it would even be profitable. But it is VERY expensive compared to flyers. Since I'm basically solo most of the time and lawns are so seasonal I bowed out over 6 years ago. I'm glad because I used to get calls from all over when I really just like sticking to my own area, lots of solicitors too... I'm in the White Pages :)

Besides, websites are the way to go imo.

I pick up customers in a 2 month period in the spring (mostly) so why pay for yellow pages for 12 months? If I had a pizza joint, I would definitely be in there though.

bohiaa
03-21-2009, 10:26 PM
If the yellow pages survies, It will FOR SURE CAUSE ME PAIN.......

these people are nothing But a PITA

Elite Outdoor
03-22-2009, 12:47 AM
It wouldn't suprise me if they went belly up. There are too many in each market. I mean we get 7 maybe 8 different phone books per year delivered to our house. Its bad enough that you pay 2 grand for an add only to compete with other lawn care advertisers. Then you have a one in eight chance they kept the phone book your in. I just wasn't that pleased when I did it.

LBFmd
03-22-2009, 12:51 AM
there was something on CNBC the other day about Idearc (Yellowpages) they were number 3 out of the top 15 large companies in the US most liekly to file for Bankruptcy in the next 6 months.

that tells you somethin

Ric3077
03-22-2009, 01:14 AM
I am actually surprised they lasted this long...I haven't used a yellow pages book since the mid-90's

topsites
03-22-2009, 08:56 AM
Yeah but this is just another case of a company who couldn't see their way out of this hole
which has been a long time in the brewing, and if nobody saw it coming that's not my fault, either.
So why should I feel sorry?

Just like the big telephone companies, are they going out of business?
Lucky for them cellulars were an easy cross-over, but it still boils down to them
seeing it coming, then getting off their butts and making some changes.

Not sure what the Yellow Pages could have done instead, but then it's not my company.

..............................
You can opt out from receiving phone books.

Lawnworks
03-22-2009, 10:54 AM
I am not worried about it. Yellow Book does suck. AT&T yellow pages is the "real yellow pages" in my area. I pay 2k a month for my advertising in both books. Takes money to make money.

NewHorizon's Land
03-22-2009, 12:10 PM
Our yellow page listings last year were the same pages as the enitre book this year. At least half of the yellow page ads have dropped out of the book including myself.

Big C
03-22-2009, 05:36 PM
That's why they have been calling me like mad, trying to get me to advertise with them....they are trying to hustle up some cash to stay afloat.

fool32696
03-22-2009, 06:33 PM
I did a few ads this year with a few different books. So far not 1 call. I really wish I dumped the money on improving my website where 95% of my new work comes from. Internet is the future and the Yellowpages will get worse results every year.

THC
03-22-2009, 07:53 PM
I did a few ads this year with a few different books. So far not 1 call. I really wish I dumped the money on improving my website where 95% of my new work comes from. Internet is the future and the Yellowpages will get worse results every year.

You know I can't even remember the last time I looked up a local business in the Yellow pages. I google and even if they don't have a website they will be listed on the On Line Yellow pages.

TJLANDS
03-22-2009, 10:59 PM
Cant remember the last time I used the phone book.
Thinking it is a waste of money.

nnj18
03-24-2009, 02:10 PM
I dont think I'll ever have a yellow pages add.....I have better ways to blow my $ on advertising...

Lawnworks
03-24-2009, 08:24 PM
Wow I really cannot believe all you guys hate yellow pages... I mean I hate the price of it as much as everybody else... but damn my phone rings off the hook. Probably 20-40 times a day in the busy season. I get some crap calls, but I screen everybody and land ALOT of jobs... the more jobs my company does the more referrals I get(because I am awesome) and it has a compounding factor. I just wonder if some of you are not putting enough money into it or you are advertising in the "unreal yellow pages." I don't see a whole lot of companies that gross 500k and up that are not in the yellow pages.

I keep a phone book in all of my trucks... never know when you need a number and it is a pita to look the number up on the internet on my blackberry.

Ric3077
03-24-2009, 08:31 PM
The yellow pages, these days anyways, only brings in older people it seems...which I do not want. Don't get me wrong I have older customers...but I do not want EVERY CALL to be from an older person. Most people under 55- or even 60 years old use the internet these days. The 80 year olds want the guy who cuts for $25...not me.

Lawnworks
03-24-2009, 08:43 PM
The yellow pages, these days anyways, only brings in older people it seems...which I do not want. Don't get me wrong I have older customers...but I do not want EVERY CALL to be from an older person. Most people under 55- or even 60 years old use the internet these days. The 80 year olds want the guy who cuts for $25...not me.

I landed about $7000 worth of work in the last few days off yellow pages... one was a 25ish year old couple, another a 35ish male, and a 40ish year old woman. As long as my competition thinks like you... that may be a good thing.

You are probably landing the over-fifties because they need reading glasses just to read your one-liner.

Ric3077
03-24-2009, 08:46 PM
Good for you...that's great!

Lawnworks
03-24-2009, 08:53 PM
Good for you...that's great!

How big is your ad?

lifetree
03-24-2009, 09:00 PM
I landed about $7000 worth of work in the last few days off yellow pages... one was a 25ish year old couple, another a 35ish male, and a 40ish year old woman. ...

Good for you, it sounds like you got a good advertising program !!

Lawnworks
03-24-2009, 10:06 PM
Good for you, it sounds like you got a good advertising program !!

For me, yellow pages are only a piece of the pie. All your advertising works in conjuction with each other. The advertising will land you the opportunity to sell the job. We have to listen to guys like Jim Lewis. You have to be careful who you accept advise from on these forums. You want to model successful companies not part timers, solo operators or debt ridden companies. Reading Jim's posts have inspired me to SELL the jobs. Distinguish yourselves from the competion... tell them the difference. Once you figure out your niche, apply it to your advertising. One example for me is irrigation. I advertise a 3 year warranty. I have very little problems from my systems, so it works great both ways. I am usually the high bidder, but my clients have a great incentive to go with me.

My opinion is that advertising is THE most important expenditure you make. I see so many guys that think a clean expensive rig will bring them more business, but it is not true. I end up getting a great deal on there like new equipment a couple years later. A brand new King Ranch will not create income,but if you spending 50k on the right advertising you will be able to buy 5 King Ranches the next year.

PROCUT1
03-24-2009, 10:20 PM
I didnt know they still put out yellow pages.

Lawnworks
03-24-2009, 10:52 PM
I didnt know they still put out yellow pages.

That is why you are out of the lawn business... jab! jk procut!

mdvaden
03-24-2009, 11:14 PM
Our yellow page listings last year were the same pages as the enitre book this year. At least half of the yellow page ads have dropped out of the book including myself.

To the end that the book would seem like half as thick?

If I'm reading your post right ...

TXNSLighting
03-24-2009, 11:49 PM
Book wise dont really care, but online yellowpages wise...thats where alot of people are looking now.

Lawnworks
03-25-2009, 12:12 AM
You never know. If the yellow pages become extinct maybe MVaden will only charge us a modest consultation fee for some of his internet advertising expertise!

TXNSLighting
03-25-2009, 01:47 AM
There ya go!! :cool2:

THC
03-25-2009, 01:50 AM
Reading Jim's posts have inspired me

So who is this Jim Lewis? I did do a search and came up with nothing on Lawn Site.. a google search came up with an American Idol contestant but I don't know.;)

What's his user name?

Lawnworks
03-25-2009, 08:31 AM
So who is this Jim Lewis? I did do a search and came up with nothing on Lawn Site.. a google search came up with an American Idol contestant but I don't know.;)

What's his user name?

JimLewis.... here is one of his post.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=261944

NewHorizon's Land
03-25-2009, 10:17 AM
To the end that the book would seem like half as thick?

If I'm reading your post right ...

I am throwing out a figure here. Lets say the book was 3000 pages for 2008. and the yellow pages section was 2000 pages. The book for 2009 is a total of 2000 pages. Its the same thickness as the yellow pages section last year.

Midstate Lawncare
03-25-2009, 09:55 PM
I am not worried about it. Yellow Book does suck. AT&T yellow pages is the "real yellow pages" in my area. I pay 2k a month for my advertising in both books. Takes money to make money.

No offense.... "but u are out yo damn mind!

mdvaden
03-25-2009, 10:08 PM
You never know. If the yellow pages become extinct maybe MVaden will only charge us a modest consultation fee for some of his internet advertising expertise!

Actually, Jim Lewis of Lewis Landscape Service (Lawnsite user too) introduced me to the Wonderful World of the Internet.

Gotta give him a lot of credit.

He's got a pretty decent site too.

Lawnworks
03-26-2009, 12:06 AM
No offense.... "but u are out yo damn mind!

My numbers don't lie. What works for you? and what are your gross and net numbers?

My golfing buddy started a moving company 2 years ago based on soley yellow pages. He did 600k last year. He is now spending 5k a month this year on advertising for his moving business and a couple other businesses. He will see a million in sales next year if not this year.

Lawnworks
03-26-2009, 12:07 AM
Actually, Jim Lewis of Lewis Landscape Service (Lawnsite user too) introduced me to the Wonderful World of the Internet.

Gotta give him a lot of credit.

He's got a pretty decent site too.

What are you doing gross wise? What percentage is internet sales? Do you have any yellow pages ads?

DuallyVette
03-26-2009, 12:36 AM
Back in the olden days, The phonebook and Yellowpages were a COMPLETE listing of every company in town with a business phone (White pages & one line in the YP). Being in the phone book kind of gave you some credibility as a REAL business. Few of my small LCO friends had an ad in the YP, and none of the bigger companies had anything besides the complementary one line in the YP.

Then the YP started selling upgrades: white background, Red ink, then blue or green...now any color. All this made my little ad worth less (IMHO) but cost more each year. When someone buys a 1/2 page, one page or 2 page ad...I think that their overhead is out of whack. I've always looked at the incolumn ads when shopping , so that I could see ALL my options, not just the big spenders.

I've had a small-in column ad (listing all our services) in the BellSouth/AT&T real yellow pages since 1979. The ad cost me $25 a month back then. The same ad is $249 a month now. A business phone line was $40 a month on top of that. Now a business phone line is probably $80 a month. When phone numbers could be transferred to cell phones, (5 years ago) I moved my business # to my cell phone.( I always kept the number forwarded to the mobile # any way) I just discovered that AT&T stopped putting my phone # in the white pages.

Then AT&T started selling ad in smaller books, just for different areas of town-worthless to me, I always tossed them. THEN "YELLOWBOOK" showed up (they wanted $60 a month for the same ad that AT&T was charging me $249 a month.) I'm not stacking that many books on my desk...I toss them (recycle).

One good account a year will pay for my ad...but I really don't think I'll renew the ad after 30 years.

"The Real Yellow Pages" use to have a monopoly. As a Monopoly, they had a value, and the CHARGED me for it. Now they have no monopoly, but they charge me MORE.

On another note...I've gotten a "BILL" from "YellowPages Inc." and another yellow pages named company. SCAMS. The public must be really stupid. These companies must be getting fools to pay these fake bills. If the Federal Trade Commission REALLY regulated "truth in advertising" , a lot of scam artists would be looking for a real job. Of course we've all come to expect our politicians, lawyers, pitch men(advertisers) bankers, mortgage brokers, etc....to LIE TO US. I'm really tired of liars and thieves.

mdvaden
03-26-2009, 04:14 AM
What are you doing gross wise? What percentage is internet sales? Do you have any yellow pages ads?

Can't share the gross dollar figures. Can say we had our busiest winter in 20 years though.

The website is supplying about 70% of our business.

Plus $1200 per year income from Google for enabling their ads on our advice pages.

The site is also worth about $2000 in miscelleneous trade.

No yellow pages ads. Only tried that like 18 years ago with pretty lame results for my niche.

Precedence
03-26-2009, 04:30 AM
The yellow pages are losing ground to other forms of advertising but they are still used fairly heavily.

Here are some stats:

http://adperformancedirect.com/news_clips/Top_300_Headings_Num_2006.pdf

Landscaping Contractors was #29 and was referenced 74.1 Million times in the US in 2006.

Lawn Maintenance was #51 and was referenced 43.6 Million times in the US in 2006.

bohiaa
03-26-2009, 09:38 AM
I never did understand why we have Yellow pages ?

always thought it was a waiste, by the time it gets to your door it's 3 months old.

does anyone really use the phone book anymore ?

Turf Commando
03-27-2009, 12:08 AM
The book ''Yellow Pages'' is fading away I won't miss them they brought me a bill that was it..
I find better ways to advertise with great success like (custom yard signs)
which only cost me $40 bucks and yielded me much work. The greatest advertisement is word of mouth except no substitutes ....

tinman
03-27-2009, 09:58 PM
waste of money for me. it is basically spam in paper form. You don't ask for the books yet they throw them on your driveway. Same could be said for our flyers also though.

topsites
03-27-2009, 10:17 PM
Not to cut your quote short, but...

Then the YP started selling upgrades: white background, Red ink, then blue or green...now any color. All this made my little ad worth less (IMHO) but cost more each year.

Yup, I have watched this insanity develop across every single large corporation,
some folks say it gets a little bit harder every year, others say it gets watered
down in time, and still some refer to it as the company losing its nuts.

I've watched corporations who once swore they would never do some thing a specific way,
turn around years later and do the very thing they said they'd never do.
And not just once, but time and again, one after the next.

I could get into the reasons why they do it, or why it happens, but lets just say that it's usually only a matter of time.

I'm really tired of liars and thieves.

They're all the same, that is something I've gotten quite used to.

DuallyVette
03-27-2009, 11:40 PM
I've preach honesty and integrity to everyone I come in contact with. Many people are very honest, but many people are costing this society EVERYTHING. From criminals that MAKE ME keep my property under lock & key 24/7, carry a gun, and even read the "bills" (some ARE fake) that come in the mail.

The taxpayers are getting raked over the coals, from the cost of security in a department store, police, judges, jails or the the thieving lying politicians, and the blind ,ignorant people that work so hard to support them during their elections.

I'll never get use to it. I expect so much more from the people in this society.

Until there are consequences, there will be no improvements.