Help with reestablishing my lawn

[ninothing]

3 1/2 yrs ago when I purchased my home the grass in the front lawn was in good condition. Now it looks AWFUL - barely a lawn left - I only had to mow it twice last year!!!!

I live in Kansas City. I have small lawn with some extra shade. The lawn has a decent slope down to the sidewalk. Also, as you can tell an awful sweet gum tree. Any suggestions on actions to take this spring to restore my lawn?

Before
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56037354@N00/3376004569/

Now
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56037354@N00/3376820436/

[cod8825]

Holy crap I have seen bad lawns but this is the worst. Look first thing is can you give us some ideas on what you have done to the lawn in terms of maintenance. First do you clean up the gum balls at the end of season. Have you ever had your lawn tested to see where the ph, nutrient levels, organic content are. Before the after picture have you had severe issues with crabgrass, weeds and such. Did you mow it weekly or let it hay and clump up bad. Unfortunately I would suggest that you look at having a professional company look at it. There are so many factors to suggest I am not sure where to start.

Here is a quick run down

1. Have soil tested
2. Decide how much to spend and how fast you want to fix lawn(reseeding vs sod)
3. Make sure lawn is clean and free of debris(sticks, gum balls) so that grass isn't being suffocated.
4. Follow correct cultural practices ( mow cutting no more 1/3 of blade at time, 3" to 4" in summer.
5. Make sure lawn is getting proper watering. Most people think grass under trees need less water than grass in shade.

That should get you started

[ninothing]

any suggestions on whether i should consider bringing in new top soil? Also - any recommendation on grass type for my condition/location?

[cod8825]

Nin:

Look Bringing in top soil will do good but I would test the soil as to see where the condition of the soil is. Also if it went from the good lawn to the bad in three seasons as stated in your post you need to find out where the issue that caused it.

Weeds, soil conditions, water, debris have you had any bad outbreaks of fungal diseases dog crap I mean something. Putting soil down and throwing seed down will help but are you going to be in the same boat in three years. I work in Pleasant Hill I can come take a look for you and make some recommendations and give you some pricing.

Matt

[ninothing]

i do think i will have it tested - i tried reseeding once and got a OK grow but the blades never seemed to mature, broaden or root deeply. I believe that most of this was due to soil condition - also - anyway to keep squirrels off from digging divots in the turf?

[Exact Rototilling]

"...snip.... anyway to keep squirrels off from digging divots in the turf?
Jack Russell terriers or even dachshunds and other breeds that love to chase after rodents.

[ninothing]

i have a pug that would love that job - issue is he would chase them endlessly down the street.

[ninothing]

dropped off my soil sample this morning - i was told it could take 2-3 wks to get the results back. In the meantime, I still think I will have to do some sort of treatment, bring in some new soil and reseed.

any thoughts on,

how much (addtl depth) of soil i should consider and what type of seed (consider i have a lot of shade, sweet gum tree)?

thanks

[cod8825]

Well the question is how much can you afford look I know that you want to get started but I would wait until the results come in. If you have a high PH then adding soil won't do much because eventually it will raise the PH of the new soil wait patiently for the results.

[betmr]

Be smart, not impatient. Wait for your test results. How are you going to feel when the results come in and maybe all you need is to adjust the ph. Or maybe what you need is to cut that tree down, the one that is probably shading out your grass. Or maybe you didn't rake the leaves up a couple of seasons? And they smothered the lawn. But I'll bet that tree is shading out the lawn. My neighbor has one of those trees, and nothing grows in his yard but MUDD.

I don't know your location, but cool season grasses are best started in the fall.

Why do people think that Top Soil is some magic elixir? It's just dirt, and dirt you already have, now build it, right ph for the plants you want, right nutrients & amendments, this is what your soil sample is going to tell you. Be patient you'll make out better in the long run.

[KCLandscape]

You need to put that thing on a program!

[ninothing]

YEAH - it needs some TLC - what are your thoughts on self installing a sprinkler system to help with the watering regime? its a fairly small plot and think it could be covered with 3-4 heads.

Any recommendations?

THANKS

[bigslick7878]

Kill it,add the amendments from the results of the soil test and SOD THAT BABY!

Turf type tall fescue should work in your area just fine.

If it starts to thin out over time in the shade areas overseed with dense shade seed.

[ninothing]

by kill it you mean? I to me it looks like its already on its last leg.

[KCLandscape]

I am thinking of putting in a system as well, but using a quick connect so I can plug a hose w a timer in and let her rip. No wires or anything. Friend of mine in LA did this and says it works GREAT. I have about the same size yard as yours, maybe a little bigger and I was thinking of running the mainline corner to corner and putting a rotor at each corner. Front lawn only. As fay as your lawn, sod would be the way to go this time of year. Instant results! I agree with killing off the existing w/ roundup and amending as needed as stated above. If you had the system in before the sod went down you would be rocking!

[betmr]

YEAH - it needs some TLC - what are your thoughts on self installing a sprinkler system to help with the watering regime? its a fairly small plot and think it could be covered with 3-4 heads.

Any recommendations?

THANKS

A sprinkler system would be a great idea if you are going to do a full renovation. This would be a good time to do it. You won't have to tear up your lawn should you decide to do it later.

You can get all the information, and design help you need at toro.com. under topic Irrigation. You can download a whole guide book there. You can also send them a sketch, and water flow info, and they will create the design for you. What type of heads and where to put them for optimum operation. A sprinkler system done right is an excellent water conservation tool.

As for the guy who wants to make a system to hook up to a hose bib. make sure you run any pipe deep enough, that future work, i.e. De-Thatching, aerating, etc. don't damage anything. And if you are in a cold climate you will still need to winterize (blow the water out) the lines, or your going to have broken pipes from freezing.

[KCLandscape]

You bet. My friend in LA doesn't have that problem, but I will have to get them pretty deep.

[kabrac]

Just wondering if you had any heavy snow compaction, also, what do both of your neighbors' yards look like?

[kabrac]

Also when did you take both pictures? It looks like two totally different times of the year.

[ninothing]

the original pic was taken probably in May/June timeframe - the current was taken as of the date of the first post.

Snow Compaction? My neighbors have average to nice looking yards. Mine is the black sheep.

[kabrac]

Where are you from? I thought you were from kansas city, that is why I asked about if you had had any snow on your yard a long time.

[KCLandscape]

I am in the middle of KC. Snow compaction? Is that a southern term?

[kabrac]

I am in the middle of KC. Snow compaction? Is that a southern term?

I don't know what else you would call it. What do you call it up there? Is snow not called snow? When something heavy rests on top of somthing else it will compact the underlying surface, hence the name compaction. I'm sorry I just don't know what else you would call it.....snow pack, ice compaction,what are you looking for??

[oldfella]

My neighbors have average to nice looking yards. Mine is the black sheep.

I think you have your answer right there: What do your neighbors do that you are not doing, or vice-versa?

Pete (The Oldfella)

[Smallaxe]

I think you have your answer right there: What do your neighbors do that you are not doing, or vice-versa?

Pete (The Oldfella)

Probably too much water or too little water... I can't imagine the soils are that much different... JMO. :)

[ninothing]

Kill it,add the amendments from the results of the soil test and SOD THAT BABY!

Turf type tall fescue should work in your area just fine.

If it starts to thin out over time in the shade areas overseed with dense shade seed.

I got my soil test back and EVERYTHING was within the guidelines. I am having the tree removed later next week. As for treating the soil after the tree is out, I could go ahead and roundup the yard now, right? As for the next step, what (if anything) should I add to the soil and how should I go about loosening it up to promote good soil-seed contact?

[bigslick7878]

I got my soil test back and EVERYTHING was within the guidelines. I am having the tree removed later next week. As for treating the soil after the tree is out, I could go ahead and roundup the yard now, right? As for the next step, what (if anything) should I add to the soil and how should I go about loosening it up to promote good soil-seed contact?

If the soil tests came back with everything in the range,then you should be good to go.

Yes you can hit it with round up and kill it all off.

I see you mentioned "seeding it".

I suggest you read this thread before going down that road....

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=268963

Notice the start date (about March 25th when the seed went down at first) to the dates and see the progress....and it still isnt grown in yet.

One other issue is that with it being Mid May,you are going to be fighting with seed into summer......not a good idea...at all.

Some questions....

What is your budget?

Can we get some wide angle pics?

How much square footage are we talking about?

How adept are you with lawn care in general?

Do you know nothing,a little bit, or have you done something like this before?

Seeding from scratch this time of year is going to be a challenge......even for an experienced person who knows what they are doing.2 months ago,might have been doable,but now.....not so much.

[KCLandscape]

I seeded one this week, will post pics in 2 weeks or so. Sod would be preferrable in your situation. I had 7000 sq ft and cost didn't work to sod. Water is CRITICAL either way! Already have germination, and have been doing this 18 yrs. Call me and we can discuss 9-980-9550

[ninothing]

here is what i am thinking.
1A - kill lawn

1 - bring in a some new topsoil just to fill in/level out the area around the tree that is coming out.

2 - verticut lawn to break up soil - then pass over it with the verticut seeder.

3 - quick application of starter fert.

4 - cover with layer of peat.

5 - water, beer (myself), pray.

is there anything else i should mix in or add to the process? any thing i should put down before verticut to mix into the existing soil?

A question on straw - is it really the magical elixir - should i put a light cover of straw down afterwards - and if it light - does it need to be raked out?

thanks for all your help.

[LawnSolutionsCP]

Just wait until the first week of September! It is too late and you will just fight weeds all summer....or over seed it now and then plan on doing it again in the fall. Personally, as bad as it looks, I would seed it ASAP, and deal with the weeds during the summer...better than dirt. Then kill it off end of Aug and seed the 1st week in September. Use turf type tall fescue....I would get the seed from Grass Pad.


Go to Bledsoe Rentals, rent one of 9HP Turf Revitalizers, reseed your lawn. You will have a new lawn 2" tall in 2-weeks and like a golf course in 3-4 weeks if done 1st week in September.

Bledsoe and Grass Pad have multiple location in your area....I have personally worked with both of them and they are top notch.

Please post before, during, and after picture of your lawn.

Bledsoe has DVDs of the below video showing you how to do it.

Get a timer to do the water...much easier and will do a better job. This is really the only difficult part and can be easy if you spend the extra $30 and get a timer.

Don't cover with stray or anything, just seed like shown in the video, water, add starter fert....that is it.

VIDEO (http://www.lawnsolutionscp.com/video/Rental_Video.wmv)

[oldfella]

Good info, great video - Thanks for sharing.

Pete (The Oldfella)