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View Full Version : How Bad Did I Screw Up My Equipment??


Jeff Tracey Enterprises
03-22-2009, 11:47 PM
So yeah, I'll be the first to call myself and idiot to save you guys the typing lol. Anyways, for the past the past couple of month I have been running my 2 stroke equipment using my Echo oil mix like always. Well I accidentally bought the mix to mix 2 gallons. Well, my dumbass realized this yesterday and have only been mixing it with 1 gallon of gas. That being said, my blower and stick edger are still running fine but my trimmer is not! I have to take out the plug and blast it with some starter fluid to get it to run. Have I totally screwed everything up or is the trimmer going to be ok. I am planning on buying not only a bigger gas can for mix gas but also another trimmer anyways but was planning on putting the one i've been using as a spare, Im still just hoping it will be a functional spare, not a piece of crap that will be collecting dust cause I F'ed it up. Any tips will be appreciated. Thanks, The idiot.:hammerhead:

T&J Landscaping
03-22-2009, 11:51 PM
that should of not ruined your trimmer from the gas,, try changing the spark plug 1st ,

Sammy
03-22-2009, 11:53 PM
It will burn it out. U B Okay.

George Mason
03-22-2009, 11:59 PM
My dealer put on a "commercial cutter day" for all of us in the area and the Echo reps were there and they told us some wild number of hours they run their products in R&D with straight gas and such and they were lasting surprisingly long before they locked so I doubt you have to worry about much if you correct it now.

Jeff Tracey Enterprises
03-23-2009, 12:00 AM
I appreciate it guys!! Once I realized what I have done I just started kicking myself!! You guys should have seen it, me standing in front of a clients house going STUPID STUPID STUPID!!

TuffWork
03-23-2009, 12:43 AM
:) done that one before. If your handy with equipment take off the muffler, clean it, and clean or replace the little screen in it if it has one. These little motors like a little back pressure, but too much makes them angry. Kinda like alcohol for humans.

If that doesn't make it smooth out, your carb is the issue. If you don't know what you're doing I wouldn't suggest messing with it. Take it to a dealer and they might re-jet it and/or clean it for you.

That said, Echo's have fickle carbs anyway, and can flood easy and act funny after they get old, or you, say, put too much oil in them :) . That's why I switched to stihl. Haven't been disappointed yet.

Green Machine Mowing
03-23-2009, 12:47 AM
These little motors like a little back pressure, but too much makes them angry. Kinda like alcohol for humans.


:laugh:

That one made me laugh out load, good work :dancing:

topsites
03-23-2009, 05:25 AM
By the way...

First off I think the trimmer will be all right, as was said, replace the plug and also maybe the air filter, I would.
The only thing is, if it did damage it, the engine might yet run all right for a few more days, so only time will tell.

But as for the starting fluid...
That stuff is hard on the engine, too.
For future reference the ether strips upper cylinder lubrication, forcing the machine to run a few dry revolutions.

The reason I say this is, use ether only as a test or as a last resort, one or two quick shots and that's about it.

Which isn't to say I've never ran a machine (or kept it running) with the stuff :p
But it's not good for it, not really.

nbuzz
03-23-2009, 05:58 AM
:laugh:

That one made me laugh out load, good work :dancing:

+1 that was hysterical... made me spill my coffee.:laugh:

K/B
03-23-2009, 06:04 AM
By the way...

First off I think the trimmer will be all right, as was said, replace the plug and also maybe the air filter, I would.
The only thing is, if it did damage it, the engine might yet run all right for a few more days, so only time will tell.

But as for the starting fluid...
That stuff is hard on the engine, too.
For future reference the ether strips upper cylinder lubrication, forcing the machine to run a few dry revolutions.

The reason I say this is, use ether only as a test or as a last resort, one or two quick shots and that's about it.

Which isn't to say I've never ran a machine (or kept it running) with the stuff :p
But it's not good for it, not really.

You're right on the ether. Do NOT use starting fluid on a 2-cycle engine! Not only does it have ZERO lubricating properties, it can blow a gasket (or worse) out of the engine.

Richard Martin
03-23-2009, 06:49 AM
Nevermind, changed my post. Sorry.

joshco84
03-23-2009, 07:23 AM
You should be ok, the only thing i would be worried about was if it was running hot.

You are actually better off running straight gas than too much oil. The oil burns really hot compared to straight fuel.

But i wouldnt be too worried, start mixing it right and see what happens. Maybe you will get lucky and it wouldnt have ruined anything.

Roger
03-23-2009, 07:31 AM
Maybe I've misunderstood the initial post, but I read it this way:

2 cycle oil in a bottle intended for two gallons was used to mix one gallon instead.

This makes the mixture twice as rich as intended. Some of the posts here imply that the mix was half as rich as intended. As I understand the details, the mix was too rich, not too lean. Did I miss a misunderstand the initial post?

Having said that, more damaging than running a mixture that is too rich is was to use the starter fluid through the engine. As pointed out, the lubricating qualities of the starter fluid is nothing, compared to a mixture with gasoline and oil. Your equipment may have some excessive buildup due to running with a rich mixture, but no damage from lack of proper lubrication.

dishboy
03-23-2009, 07:47 AM
Maybe I've misunderstood the initial post, but I read it this way:

2 cycle oil in a bottle intended for two gallons was used to mix one gallon instead.

This makes the mixture twice as rich as intended. Some of the posts here imply that the mix was half as rich as intended. As I understand the details, the mix was too rich, not too lean. Did I miss a misunderstand the initial post?

Having said that, more damaging than running a mixture that is too rich is was to use the starter fluid through the engine. As pointed out, the lubricating qualities of the starter fluid is nothing, compared to a mixture with gasoline and oil. Your equipment may have some excessive buildup due to running with a rich mixture, but no damage from lack of proper lubrication.

A rich oil /gas mix will make a lean air/fuel mixture. Oil displaces fuel leaning out your a/f ratio. This is why running 80/1 amsoil improves the performance of today's smog carbed 2-stokes.

To the op if you did not score your cylinder with the starting fluid pull the muffler and clean the build up in the muffler and in your exhaust port from running to much oil. While you have it offf you can check your cylinder.

nobagger
03-23-2009, 09:23 AM
What! your not as perfect as all of us?! J/K. I accidentally ran straight fuel in a trimmer last year. I ran it for about 2 minutes before I realized it. It was fine and still in use today. I would just change out the plug and maybe air filter.

milo
03-23-2009, 10:41 AM
it will not hurt anything at all. if at worse it will smoke and i doubt that even. i worked with a guy who used to use 5 ounces to 1 gallon all the time never a problem.

Kennedy Landscaping
03-23-2009, 11:34 AM
Hope it all works out for ya.

Hope you have a better season than its starting out for you

Jeff Tracey Enterprises
03-23-2009, 11:46 AM
Sorry to not clarify earlier, yeah, I was running it to rich, like I guess it would be a 25:1 ratio. Oops!! But if the starting fluid is hurting it due to no lubrication and me doubling up on my mixture I guess everything should work out fine right?? j/k. oh well hope its not completely F'ed, thanks again guys, Jeff

Runner
03-23-2009, 11:49 AM
I burn 4 oz/gal. on a regular basis. I have some of our trimmers and blowers that are 15 years old, and going strong. I have a bit of black oil that accumulates on the exhaust area, but it doesn't hurt anything. I've always done this for no particular reason, just the belief that a bit more lubrication might be good. Any and all new equipment purchased will be run the same way. I always have clean plugs, as well. they may not be a consistent sand color, but they sure fire ok. As far as long term carburetion issues, I don't know if it really has any effects or not but i know that I am and have been blessed with the way my equipment starts and runs. Even after several years, all my Echo equipment can sit for weeks or even over winter season, and they will still fire right up in 3 or 4 pulls (a few more for when they've sat over winter). The Stihl equipment, being known for being a little more temperamental, and is...fires up well, also.

Jeff Tracey Enterprises
03-23-2009, 01:58 PM
Yeah, there is some oil build up around the muffler but the plug still looks pretty good. The funny thing is that my Stihl blower is running better than my Echo trimmer and edger and normally its the exact opposite. Thank you guys though for all the help and support.

Trenchblade
03-23-2009, 02:05 PM
So yeah, I'll be the first to call myself and idiot to save you guys the typing lol. Anyways, for the past the past couple of month I have been running my 2 stroke equipment using my Echo oil mix like always. Well I accidentally bought the mix to mix 2 gallons. Well, my dumbass realized this yesterday and have only been mixing it with 1 gallon of gas. That being said, my blower and stick edger are still running fine but my trimmer is not! I have to take out the plug and blast it with some starter fluid to get it to run. Have I totally screwed everything up or is the trimmer going to be ok. I am planning on buying not only a bigger gas can for mix gas but also another trimmer anyways but was planning on putting the one i've been using as a spare, Im still just hoping it will be a functional spare, not a piece of crap that will be collecting dust cause I F'ed it up. Any tips will be appreciated. Thanks, The idiot.:hammerhead:

it could have been worse it you did it backwards, too much oil = not to bad. not enough oil = real bad

Brett's Cutting Edge
03-23-2009, 02:17 PM
I would say that the worse that is going to happen is the valves will get plugged and have some oil that collects in your muffler. It wouldnt be to hard to take it apart and clean everything. it would run alot better and start better to.

lawnpro724
03-23-2009, 02:22 PM
Its better to run 2 gal mix w/1gal gas than 1gal mix w/ 2gal gas, doing that will burn your engines up. Run the correct mix in your trimmers, blowers and you will be fine. Like everyone has said you will be fine.

ed2hess
03-23-2009, 09:30 PM
Okay....a shot of starting fluid will not hurt an Echo I use it all the time just to get them to start. And this high amount of oil in the gas won't hurt anything either. Just get some seafoam and run a few tank of it and it should clean up some of excess buildup due to excess oil. I doubt that you could have clogged the exhaust port but if the screen is in get it out.

Roger
03-23-2009, 09:54 PM
Okay....a shot of starting fluid will not hurt an Echo I use it all the time just to get them to start. ...

This procedure of starting your Echo all the time sounds a little unusual. Why do you always need starting fluid?

ed2hess
03-24-2009, 10:13 PM
This procedure of starting your Echo all the time sounds a little unusual. Why do you always need starting fluid?

Bad working I don't use it all the time......I meant that as the repair guy the first thing I do when the worker gives a unit to me is shoot some starter in if it won't start without it. It is sorta a diagnostic tool.

FYS777
03-24-2009, 10:26 PM
So yeah, I'll be the first to call myself and idiot to save you guys the typing lol. Anyways, for the past the past couple of month I have been running my 2 stroke equipment using my Echo oil mix like always. Well I accidentally bought the mix to mix 2 gallons. Well, my dumbass realized this yesterday and have only been mixing it with 1 gallon of gas. That being said, my blower and stick edger are still running fine but my trimmer is not! I have to take out the plug and blast it with some starter fluid to get it to run. Have I totally screwed everything up or is the trimmer going to be ok. I am planning on buying not only a bigger gas can for mix gas but also another trimmer anyways but was planning on putting the one i've been using as a spare, Im still just hoping it will be a functional spare, not a piece of crap that will be collecting dust cause I F'ed it up. Any tips will be appreciated. Thanks, The idiot.:hammerhead:

Sounds like two much oil to gas, your stuff will be just fine, empty them out, re-mix correctly go to work, they will burn out clean, I usually run a little richer mix when temps are above 80 degrees, helps lubricate them better, in high heat.

terrapro
03-25-2009, 07:32 AM
run only what the manufacturer recommends. usally 50:1 with 89 octane or above.

why 89 octane or above? well because higher octane actually burns COOLER than lower octane. heat and engines are a bad combo

to much oil is just as bad as no oil. from what i understand(which isnt much) oil burns hotter than gas which means more heat. which as we know is bad for engines.

no oil means no lube which causes extra friction which causes scoring on the cylinder wall and also more heat. which as we know is bad for engines.

so with that said both high oil or low/no oil = BAD.

cgaengineer
03-25-2009, 09:13 AM
At least you error ed on the side of caution and just created a 25:1 ratio instead of 50:1. No big deal. Clean the spark arrestor and change the plug and you should be fine, no permanent damage done.

cgaengineer
03-25-2009, 09:31 AM
run only what the manufacturer recommends. usally 50:1 with 89 octane or above.

why 89 octane or above? well because higher octane actually burns COOLER than lower octane. heat and engines are a bad combo

to much oil is just as bad as no oil. from what i understand(which isnt much) oil burns hotter than gas which means more heat. which as we know is bad for engines.

no oil means no lube which causes extra friction which causes scoring on the cylinder wall and also more heat. which as we know is bad for engines.

so with that said both high oil or low/no oil = BAD.

Oil does not burn hotter than gasoline.

The reason these little engines run in Echos test shop with little or no oil is because everything inside is chrome. Chrome is extremely hard and durable. This is not to say that the aluminum piston will not smear to the rings and cause a no compression problem due to lack of lubrication. But in my years of motorcycles, the best cylinders were made of nikasil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil) or chrome and were very durable and the tolerances were much tighter allowing for higher compression which equals more power. The engines with this special coating on the cylinder walls were mostly water cooled which also helped to tighten tolerances.

I know you didn't want a lesson in small engines...but you got a pre course anyway...this one's on the house!:laugh:

TomberLawn
03-25-2009, 11:25 AM
Jeff, since you are looking for a new trimmer anyway, I would suggest going to Oakboro Ag, Power, and Turf. They carry Echo, Stihl, and Husqvarna 2-stroke products. This is where I buy a lot of equipment and they are great. Look for the big guy, Joel, and tell him Andrew from TomberLawn suggested you go to see him.

Richard Martin
03-25-2009, 03:27 PM
why 89 octane or above? well because higher octane actually burns COOLER than lower octane. heat and engines are a bad combo

Gas with a higher octane burns slower, not cooler.

terrapro
03-25-2009, 08:59 PM
Gas with a higher octane burns slower, not cooler.

hmm i cant remember where i learned that years ago and i cant find anything on the net other then relating to alcohol burning cooler. if anyone has a redmax manual it says it in there somewhere too.

cgaengineer
03-25-2009, 09:42 PM
hmm i cant remember where i learned that years ago and i cant find anything on the net other then relating to alcohol burning cooler. if anyone has a redmax manual it says it in there somewhere too.

Well the purpose of higher octane fuel is to prevent pre-ignition which occurs in engines with higher compression, nitrous, turbo charger or a supercharger. A normal engine without these things will run better on 87 octane. If you hear a person tell you the got more power from racing fuel or 93 octane fuel they are lying to you, it would actually be less power...maybe not a measurable amount but it would be less. If your engine is detonating then 93 octane would give you more power since detonation is the combustion happening before the piston reached top dead center (TDC).

Detonation is exactly what happens that makes a diesel engine run, at 20:1 compression enough heat is generated to cause the diesel fuel air mixture to combust without a spark plug and a glow plug is only needed to start a diesel.

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/high-octane-gas-myth.html

To the person who said heat destroys engines...let me say this. Running an engine at a temperature less than what the manufacturer specified will do nearly as much harm as running one hot (Mostly on a 4 cycle with an oil sump). Lower temps create sludge. This change would come from changing a thermostat from a 190 to say a 160 or taking it out completely, or installing a fan thermostat that would engage fan at a lower temp. The truth is, the hotter you can run an engine without the oil burning off the parts the more efficient it will run. There are limitations to running an engine at higher temps as the oil will stop lubricating and the fuel would vaporize as soon at is hit the fuel rail. Also running an engine at lower temps does not allow the proper expansion of the metal parts inside an engine that need to seal to work correctly (Rings/pistons)

A diesel engine is a heat engine and its one of the reasons it is so efficient.

http://books.google.com/books?id=gJIyU-DWYPoC&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7&dq=is+a+diesel+a+heat+engine&source=bl&ots=PZKRTSPJw3&sig=AbCVjVDVEjme_9XRwYd6nej5uA4&hl=en&ei=GNzKSZixNqLItgeZ1tjcCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=8&ct=result#PPA9,M1

http://science.jrank.org/pages/2057/Diesel-Engine.html

All Seasons Landscaping
03-25-2009, 11:40 PM
Better to use too much oil in there than too little... I found that out the hard way when I was trying to stretch my supply because I was too lazy to go buy more, haha. I ended up with one less trimmer that week, doh!